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ondafarm
04-24-2006, 12:08 PM
Okay, I am sick and tired of all these whiney threads about how Brian Anderson isn't tearing the cover off the ball. On case anybody else starts a thread like that, I'm prepared to reference this one.

BA is making solid progress on hitting major league pitching. He is adjusting well and although he struck out, even badly against some decent pitching early in the year, he is seeing more pitches per at bat and he is making better contact. For three weeks, I consider his efforts astounding. Very few guys step into the majors and pound the ball right away. Those that do typically have a major sophmore slump.

BA's defense has been far above average and I hope everyone has noticed that he is much more natural at CF than ARow was. Aaron learnt and even then it took quite awhile. He seems happy in Phily and good for him. But we now have a superior fielder and soon enough will have a solid hitter as well. I'm not casting ROY votes but BA will be a fine all-around player soon.

TheOldRoman
04-24-2006, 12:11 PM
:threadrules:

UofCSoxFan
04-24-2006, 12:17 PM
I'd like to echo these sentiments.

Also, with this type of lineup, namely with Thome in there instead of Carl, we don't need huge numbers from our number nine hitter and CF.

I mean for gosh sakes, we have tremendous pop as far as 2B and SS are concerned. Besides, any team not named ATL or the Mets looking for huge power numbers from center is probably in bad shape.

Again, my only concern for this team is that I still think we are one arm short in the pen, which will only possibly become a factor down the stretch, in which case I am sure Kenny will get someone decent.

13-5 is a long way from 1-4.:bandance:

Randar68
04-24-2006, 12:25 PM
I'd like to echo these sentiments.

Also, with this type of lineup, namely with Thome in there instead of Carl, we don't need huge numbers from our number nine hitter and CF.

I mean for gosh sakes, we have tremendous pop as far as 2B and SS are concerned. Besides, any team not named ATL or the Mets looking for huge power numbers from center is probably in bad shape.

Again, my only concern for this team is that I still think we are one arm short in the pen, which will only possibly become a factor down the stretch, in which case I am sure Kenny will get someone decent.

13-5 is a long way from 1-4.:bandance:

Amen, Logan, Politte and THornton still scare the bejeezus outta me whenever they come in the game. If Hermy can't get healthy, we'll be looking to add an arm either from within the organization (Lumsden, Tracey, etc), or be trading for one...

It's Time
04-24-2006, 12:29 PM
Leave Brian where he is and let him play. Aaron was no great shakes either in his rookie year. The kid just needs to play, learn the league and he'll be just fine.:cool:

Corlose 15
04-24-2006, 12:38 PM
I think just like people need to give Anderson some time to get going, they also need to let the bullpen shake itself out.

People are ready to ship off Thornton and Logan after 5 IP a piece. Give them time and if a change is need KW can go out and get someone. For what its worth I've been pretty impressed w/ Thornton. I think we're going to have the same kind of "problem" we had last year in that the BP is not going to get a lot of innings and might get rusty.

But since this is a thread about centerfield, I'm fine with Anderson. I think he's going to be a good MLB player.

Randar68
04-24-2006, 12:42 PM
Leave Brian where he is and let him play. Aaron was no great shakes either in his rookie year. The kid just needs to play, learn the league and he'll be just fine.:cool:

Hell, it took Aaron 3 years to figure out where the wall is, how to take more than 3 pitches/AB, and to not swing at the inside pitches he can't handle (which he of course forgot all about as he swung over umpteen low/inside breaking balls in the playoffs)...

But hey, we can't give a legit prospect 100 AB's? Half a Season? before writing him off?

How is Jeff Francoeur doing in Atlanta? Jeremy Hermida in Florida? Conor Jackson? Almost all of those guys are all struggling despite getting a good amount of MLB AB's LAST year...

Gotta give Anderson half a season and see where he is at the plate at the end of June...

Beautox
04-24-2006, 12:52 PM
I think just like people need to give Anderson some time to get going, they also need to let the bullpen shake itself out.

People are ready to ship off Thornton and Logan after 5 IP a piece. Give them time and if a change is need KW can go out and get someone. For what its worth I've been pretty impressed w/ Thornton. I think we're going to have the same kind of "problem" we had last year in that the BP is not going to get a lot of innings and might get rusty.

But since this is a thread about centerfield, I'm fine with Anderson. I think he's going to be a good MLB player.

I agree Anderson will be fine. With regards to Thornton i don't know why everyone is jumping on his back. Personally i think behind McCarthy and Jenks he's been the most reliable out of the pen. His last outing in Detroit he threw 22 pitches 19 of them were for strikes, and after setting two down, he had 3 bloop hits against him, with the bases loaded he struck out Curtis Granderson with a sharp breaking ball. Thornton for Borchard > J00 (ahh 1337 so lame) :redneck

rdwj
04-24-2006, 01:12 PM
I agree Anderson will be fine. With regards to Thornton i don't know why everyone is jumping on his back. Personally i think behind McCarthy and Jenks he's been the most reliable out of the pen. His last outing in Detroit he threw 22 pitches 19 of them were for strikes, and after setting two down, he had 3 bloop hits against him, with the bases loaded he struck out Curtis Granderson with a sharp breaking ball. Thornton for Borchard > J00 (ahh 1337 so lame) :redneck

Thornton has looked respectable so far. A little more of that Coop magic and he'll be lights out!

Getting him for "I just got designated for assignment" Borchard was a steal!

hawkjt
04-24-2006, 01:12 PM
It was mentioned in the trib today that rowands #'s were basically just as bad in april last year. BA will be fine.

As for the bullpen, again too small a sample to say much of anything. Pressure situations have been very limited. All I ask is to throw strikes at this point.

Thornton has been a pleasant surprise, actually.

I saw a blurb saying that there were only 24 lefty relievers in the entire league and the sox have 3 of them. Good position to be in. They are always sought after and if we need a righty in a trade the lefty will fetch him.

Really nothing to complain about at this point. But I am sure it is coming.

Theanticub
04-24-2006, 01:13 PM
Okay, I am sick and tired of all these whiney threads about how Brian Anderson isn't tearing the cover off the ball. On case anybody else starts a thread like that, I'm prepared to reference this one.

BA is making solid progress on hitting major league pitching. He is adjusting well and although he struck out, even badly against some decent pitching early in the year, he is seeing more pitches per at bat and he is making better contact. For three weeks, I consider his efforts astounding. Very few guys step into the majors and pound the ball right away. Those that do typically have a major sophmore slump.

BA's defense has been far above average and I hope everyone has noticed that he is much more natural at CF than ARow was. Aaron learnt and even then it took quite awhile. He seems happy in Phily and good for him. But we now have a superior fielder and soon enough will have a solid hitter as well. I'm not casting ROY votes but BA will be a fine all-around player soon.


Couldn't agree more..great post.

My prediction is B.A. hits 250ish with 12 hr's and 60 knocked in. Not bad for a rookie year.

ondafarm
04-24-2006, 01:47 PM
To add in about the bullpen, Politte worrys me a bit. But Ozzie seems to have him pegged and is working to get him back and confident. Yesterday's outing was a huge positive factor for him. Cotts finally realizes he will be a reliever and is now working on his craft. Temporary rough patch. McCarthy has been lights out and Jenks seems to have had a few good outings lately. The other lefties are still question marks but Coop seems to have turned a corner with Thorton.

I saw Vizcaino pitch against the Dodgers the other night. Same guy but getting a ton of work. All the D'back relievers may have their arms fall off soon.

Baby Fisk
04-24-2006, 01:59 PM
I pity the fool who disses B.A.

http://www.supermanfred.it/team-ba9.jpg
"I take your head, like this, and I mash it, like this..."

SouthSide_HitMen
04-24-2006, 02:11 PM
Here is a picture of me smoking a World Series victory cigar (you can buy the cigar stub for $2,450 on eBay).

http://www.shadowdalecreations.com/Greatest_American_Hero_small3.jpg

And here is a clip of me crushing the ball to deep center field:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/index.jsp?c_id=cws

Click this:

• Anderson's homer: http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/icons/video.gif 350K (http://javascript<b></b>:void(playMedia2({w_id:'486147',w:'2006/open/tp/archive04/042306_mincha_anderson_hr_tp_350.wmv',pid: 'mlb_tp',gid: '2006/04/23/minmlb-chamlb-1',vid: '7758',mid: '200604231414809',cid: 'mlb',fid: 'mlb_tp350',v:'2'})))

One of 15 to 20 you'll see me hit this year. You've heard the dark clouds and naysayers before and how often are they correct about anything?

maurice
04-24-2006, 03:12 PM
Anderson's defense has been great, and he's coming around at the plate. Nobody has noticed, but he's reached base in each of his last 5 starts.

The HR took the edge off. His teammates gave him a good laugh when he returned to the dugout. Afterwards, when he ran out to CF, he got a ton of applause from Sox fans and acknowledged the cheers by pointing to his wrist and saying "it's about time."

oeo
04-24-2006, 04:29 PM
Amen, Logan, Politte and THornton still scare the bejeezus outta me whenever they come in the game. If Hermy can't get healthy, we'll be looking to add an arm either from within the organization (Lumsden, Tracey, etc), or be trading for one...
I haven't seen enough of Thornton to make a decision yet, but I don't think Boone is going to cut it for us. As for Cliff, he seems to be making some improvements, I think he can turn it around. Cotts is also on my worry list (although he seems to always have a slow start), which isn't good because out of our bullpen I'm only comfortable seeing Jenks and McCarthy at this point. But as long as we're winning by 6-7 runs everyday, give those guys time to work things out and we might be surprised with the results.

As for Brian, I think he will become a star, give him some time.

Randar68
04-24-2006, 05:00 PM
As for Brian, there's no doubt in my mind that he won't be a star and a fan favorite, give him some time.

HUH?????? :?:

ondafarm
04-24-2006, 05:40 PM
As for Brian, there's no doubt in my mind that he won't be a star and a fan favorite, give him some time.

I don't think he ain't having no double negative troubles. Or is he?

oeo
04-24-2006, 06:00 PM
I don't think he ain't having no double negative troubles. Or is he?
:roflmao:

Sorry to confuse the hell out of you guys, I knew it didn't sound right. :redface:

Corlose 15
04-24-2006, 06:55 PM
I haven't seen enough of Thornton to make a decision yet, but I don't think Boone is going to cut it for us. As for Cliff, he seems to be making some improvements, I think he can turn it around. Cotts is also on my worry list (although he seems to always have a slow start), which isn't good because out of our bullpen I'm only comfortable seeing Jenks and McCarthy at this point. But as long as we're winning by 6-7 runs everyday, give those guys time to work things out and we might be surprised with the results.

As for Brian, I think he will become a star, give him some time.

If you haven't seen enough of Thornton yet then I don't think you've seen enough of Logan yet to make that claim with any weight behind it. Logan has pitched 3.2 innings so far and he had quite a bit of time off before he pitched the other day. As for Thornton he's got 5IP. I just think its WAY too early to be writing anybody off.

chidonez
04-24-2006, 07:06 PM
:roflmao:

Sorry to confuse the hell out of you guys, I knew it didn't sound right. :redface:
I got what you meant, that he won't be a selfish player. I don't know what he'll be like, but he's got some serious talent and it seemed obvious to me, anyway, that he's just a little tense. Let's all just let the coaches give him an honest chance while the conditions are right. I was impressed with his last few outings myself. The kid seems like a grinder. As someone said earlier, he's getting visibly more aggressive at the plate. At least he's got a supportive, happy, and experienced team to back him.

The other thing to consider is that as he gets used to playing in the show, the pitchers will also get to know him. The truth will come out when he proves he can adjust.

One more thing:

I read a piece lately (perhaps in Moneyball) that talked about how every hitter has a dead spot(s) in the strike zone, including Mr. Juice Bonds himself. The difference is that great hitters not only can cover most of the zone, but they also wait for, and take advantage of, pitcher mistakes. Look how long it took Crede -- who I like to compare to BA due to their strength on defense.

oeo
04-24-2006, 07:09 PM
If you haven't seen enough of Thornton yet then I don't think you've seen enough of Logan yet to make that claim with any weight behind it. Logan has pitched 3.2 innings so far and he had quite a bit of time off before he pitched the other day. As for Thornton he's got 5IP. I just think its WAY too early to be writing anybody off.

True that Thornton has pitched more innings, but Boone has appeared in more games. Boone has appeared in 5 games, only 2 of which were more than 1/3 of an inning. Still, I guess it is too early, and after looking over his stats they don't look that bad and I guess he's done alright. But after the Hafner homerun, then nearly giving up a homer against Toronto, and finally coming in the other day with control issues, it's hard to be excited when he enters the game.

I never should have said he isn't going to cut it for us...he is a rookie and he's not really doing anything terrible. I'm just real nervous about this bullpen when we need someone else out there after Bobby and McCarthy.

Tragg
04-24-2006, 08:30 PM
Anderson's defense has been great, and he's coming around at the plate. Nobody has noticed, but he's reached base in each of his last 5 starts.

The HR took the edge off. His teammates gave him a good laugh when he returned to the dugout. Afterwards, when he ran out to CF, he got a ton of applause from Sox fans and acknowledged the cheers by pointing to his wrist and saying "it's about time."
I remember you as a big Rowand backer from way back, so "Anderson's defense has been great" is particularly meaningful.
How does his plate discipline look?

Ol' No. 2
04-24-2006, 08:58 PM
True that Thornton has pitched more innings, but Boone has appeared in more games. Boone has appeared in 5 games, only 2 of which were more than 1/3 of an inning. Still, I guess it is too early, and after looking over his stats they don't look that bad and I guess he's done alright. But after the Hafner homerun, then nearly giving up a homer against Toronto, and finally coming in the other day with control issues, it's hard to be excited when he enters the game.

I never should have said he isn't going to cut it for us...he is a rookie and he's not really doing anything terrible. I'm just real nervous about this bullpen when we need someone else out there after Bobby and McCarthy.If the Sox didn't have the rotation they have it might be more of an issue. But with those five Clydesdales pulling the wagon, they really don't need more than 3 or 4 decent relievers. They have the luxury of allowing guys like Logan and Thornton to come along at their own pace.

Kinda nice, isn't it?:bandance:

Etownsox13
04-24-2006, 11:31 PM
B.A. hitting the game tying HR tonight...I think we're gonna be ok.

richb2
04-24-2006, 11:40 PM
What a clutch homerun for Brian anderson in the ninth-this kid is going to be ok, give him time

spluta7913
04-24-2006, 11:42 PM
well anderson just hit a tater to left to keep us in the game in the ninth, he was down to his last bullet as well. That a boy

richb2
04-24-2006, 11:45 PM
This kid is going to be a very good player leave himalone and let him have playing time.

HotelWhiteSox
04-25-2006, 12:01 AM
That was awesome, 2 strikes, 2 outs, knew it was gone when he hit it. He loves SafeCo huh

maurice
04-25-2006, 01:05 PM
How does his plate discipline look?

He's gonna K 100+ times, but that's not as big a deal as it used to be. For example, I suspect that 95% of Sox fans couldn't tell you that Iguchi K'ed 114 times last year. Iguchi also walked 47 times and made contact when he had to. I expect the same from Anderson, once he settles in. Heck, Anderon's current BB rate (5 BB in 54 PA) already is on par with Iguchi's 2005 BB rate.

Anderson's defense has been great, and he's coming around at the plate. Nobody has noticed, but he's reached base in each of his last 5 starts.

Update: Now "each of his last 6 starts." Also, he ranged deep into the gap in LCF to make a running catch. Plays like this seem less impressive on TV, because you can't really see all of the distance he covered. In fact, the cameraman must've figured he had no chance, since he didn't even come into frame until the last second.

maurice
04-26-2006, 11:09 AM
Update 2: Now "each of his last 7 starts," after walking twice, scoring twice, and stealing third on a blown hit-and-run. Plus, he made a nice play on a sinking liner and doubled off Ichiro (who was running on the pitch), making it 2 outs and nobody on. If he doesn't get to that, it's 1st and 3rd with no outs.

Unfortunately, his HR streak was broken after 2 games.
:cool:

ondafarm
04-26-2006, 11:49 AM
I thought he had a very good game last night. I doubt Rowand would have had that sinking liner, BA got a great jump on that ball. Rowand might have dove for it. The other factor to consider is that Ichiro, who had a great look at that ball, thought it was going to drop, at least initially. Ichiro is a heck of a player and when he makes judgements on ball right in front of him, he's right 99% of the time. BA surprised him and could have made the DP unassisted.

TomBradley72
04-30-2006, 07:11 PM
Brian Anderson April 2006: .264 OBP, .161 BA-2 HR- 6 RBI

Aaron Rowand April 2005: .295 OBP, .233 BA- 1 HR - 7 RBI

On defense....I'd say Anderson is as good as any CF the White Sox have had since I became a fan in 1971 (catching the ball, good jumps, strong arm)....he just needs to settle down as part of the natural process any rookie goes through. I'll be satisfied with any batting avg. that is north of .250 if his defense hold up....and I'm confident it will.

caulfield12
05-02-2006, 12:12 PM
Anderson's now down to .149. He might pull out of it, he might need to go down to the minors and get his confidence back.Sometime in the next week or two, they're going to have to decide if they should let Mackowiak get more playing time. If Mackowiak does start to play 3-4 times per week, it might be more helpful to let him play everyday in AAA.With Pods starting to hit now, there's going to be more focus on Anderson and Uribe, to a lesser extent.While the Sox continue to lead the division, they can get away with playing Anderson. I think the Tigers have the Royals a bunch of times in the next couple of weeks, and we play them twice as well, so, hopefully, we can stay in first place.

Chicken Dinner
05-02-2006, 12:51 PM
Altough Andersons "D" has been fine, he's definitely has offensive problems and the opposition knows it and is exploiting it.

Randar68
05-02-2006, 01:15 PM
Altough Andersons "D" has been fine, he's definitely has offensive problems and the opposition knows it and is exploiting it.

I guess you could then say the same for Uribe, right? Except he has more than 3 full years of service time and makes 3.15 million this year, but we should focus on the rookie, right?

What a maroon.

peelwonder
05-02-2006, 01:22 PM
I guess you could then say the same for Uribe, right? Except he has more than 3 full years of service time and makes 3.15 million this year, but we should focus on the rookie, right?

What a maroon.



I don't think that's the point. Uribe has proven himself at this level offensively, Anderson has not.

Defensively Anderson has been great but offensively he has really struggled, He looks hitterish at times but other times he looks completely lost. To me he is really having trouble hitting the breaking pitches and the advance scouts have notified our opponents.

I do believe he will be a good hitter in the long run but it seems he's somewhat out of his element offensively right now.

Chicken Dinner
05-02-2006, 01:32 PM
I guess you could then say the same for Uribe, right? Except he has more than 3 full years of service time and makes 3.15 million this year, but we should focus on the rookie, right?

What a maroon.

Hey moron, what's a maroon?

Main Entry: 1ma·roon http://www.m-w.com/images/audio.gif (javascript:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?maroon01.wav=maroon'))
Pronunciation: m&-'rün
Function: noun
Etymology: French maron, marron, modification of American Spanish cimarrón, from cimarrón wild, savage
1 capitalized : a fugitive black slave of the West Indies and Guiana in the 17th and 18th centuries; also : a descendant of such a slave
2 : a person who is marooned (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/marooned)

Randar68
05-02-2006, 01:34 PM
Hey moron, what's a maroon?

Main Entry: 1ma·roon http://www.m-w.com/images/audio.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?maroon01.wav=maroon'))
Pronunciation: m&-'rün
Function: noun
Etymology: French maron, marron, modification of American Spanish cimarrón, from cimarrón wild, savage
1 capitalized : a fugitive black slave of the West Indies and Guiana in the 17th and 18th centuries; also : a descendant of such a slave
2 : a person who is marooned (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/marooned)

Hey dense meatloaf-head... it's a reference to Bugs Bunny...:rolleyes:

Randar68
05-02-2006, 01:38 PM
I don't think that's the point. Uribe has proven himself at this level offensively, Anderson has not.

Defensively Anderson has been great but offensively he has really struggled, He looks hitterish at times but other times he looks completely lost. To me he is really having trouble hitting the breaking pitches and the advance scouts have notified our opponents.

I do believe he will be a good hitter in the long run but it seems he's somewhat out of his element offensively right now.

Uribe has proven himself? He's a career .260 hitter that's currently hitting .173 through today's game so far.

Anderson's been a .300 hitter at every level despite being shot through the minors at an accelerated pace. I have a hell of a lot more faith that Anderson will make the adjustments and become a "good" offensive contributor compared to expecting a mediocre (or in your words "proven") hitter like Uribe to produce...

viagracat
05-02-2006, 01:41 PM
I've defended BA in the past and think he plays a mean centerfield, but his at-bats can't continue like this. According to Hawk and DJ, his confidence is so shot right now at the plate he's afraid to go into the count. That means he swings at a lot of first pitches, which is not a way to raise your batting average.

Meanwhile, Ryan Sweeney is hitting .297 and was just the International League Batter of the Week for April 24-30 as he hit .414 with 5 homers and 10 RBIs.

Is it time?:o:

viagracat
05-02-2006, 01:41 PM
I've defended BA in the past and think he plays a mean centerfield, but his at-bats can't continue like this. According to Hawk and DJ, his confidence is so shot right now at the plate he's afraid to go into the count. That means he swings at a lot of first pitches, which is not a way to raise your batting average.

Meanwhile, Ryan Sweeney is hitting .297 and was just the International League Batter of the Week for April 24-30 as he hit .414 with 5 homers and 10 RBIs.

Is it time?:o:

peelwonder
05-02-2006, 01:44 PM
Uribe has proven himself? He's a career .260 hitter that's currently hitting .173 through today's game so far.

Anderson's been a .300 hitter at every level despite being shot through the minors at an accelerated pace. I have a hell of a lot more faith that Anderson will make the adjustments and become a "good" offensive contributor compared to expecting a mediocre (or in your words "proven") hitter like Uribe to produce...




Who cares about every level, this is the top level.

There have been plenty of players to prove themself at every level but not the majors.

The facts are he's an offensive liability right now, he's getting a nickname of rally killer. It just seems his at bats are not quality ones right now. Defensively I believe he's better than Rowand but his offesive numbers aren't there yet.

Overall Uribe is better right now than Anderson.

A major league player should hit .200 by accident.

peelwonder
05-02-2006, 01:46 PM
I do believe Anderson will be good someday he just needs to settle down.

It's very frustrating to seem him come up with the bases loaded and basically kill the rally everytime.

maurice
05-02-2006, 02:08 PM
If Uribe has been better this year, it's not by much.

Anderson has looked bad at the plate in these two games. OTOH, before the Cleveland series, he reached base in 8 of 9 starts. During that time, he had 6 hits, 6 BB, 2 HR, 5 Runs, 4 RBI, and a SB, and raised his OPS 144 points.

Let's see how he looks a month from now.

MUsoxfan
05-02-2006, 02:10 PM
Meanwhile, Ryan Sweeney is hitting .297 and was just the International League Batter of the Week for April 24-30 as he hit .414 with 5 homers and 10 RBIs.

Is it time?:o:

No. I haven't looked, but I'm quite sure Anderson had similar numbers last year in AAA.

Anderson will come around.

Ol' No. 2
05-02-2006, 02:17 PM
If Uribe has been better this year, it's not by much.

Anderson has looked bad at the plate in these two games. OTOH, before the Cleveland series, he reached base in 8 of 9 starts. During that time, he had 6 hits, 6 BB, 2 HR, 5 Runs, 4 RBI, and a SB, and raised his OPS 144 points.

Let's see how he looks a month from now.That's the way I look at it, too. If Anderson is still hitting .149 a month from now, they're going to have to do something, but that's not a given. Right now he looks lost. But with young players, the lightbulb sometimes goes on all of a sudden.

I'm more concerned with Uribe. His timing is totally out of whack. What happened to that leg kick thing he was doing last year?

palehozenychicty
05-02-2006, 02:29 PM
That's the way I look at it, too. If Anderson is still hitting .149 a month from now, they're going to have to do something, but that's not a given. Right now he looks lost. But with young players, the lightbulb sometimes goes on all of a sudden.

I'm more concerned with Uribe. His timing is totally out of whack. What happened to that leg kick thing he was doing last year?

I think that Anderson just needs the experience, and he'll be ok. uribe, however, looks....quite.....fugly at the plate.

Randar68
05-02-2006, 02:47 PM
Who cares about every level, this is the top level.

There have been plenty of players to prove themself at every level but not the majors.

The facts are he's an offensive liability right now, he's getting a nickname of rally killer. It just seems his at bats are not quality ones right now. Defensively I believe he's better than Rowand but his offesive numbers aren't there yet.

Overall Uribe is better right now than Anderson.

A major league player should hit .200 by accident.

So a major league player should hit .200 by accident? What does that make Uribe's .173 average? Sheeesh, you're wandering around in indefensible circles now.

EVERY LEVEL indicates that he's had that success, done it at a pace of rapid raising of the level of competition and shown that he can adjust quickly and align himself with that level of competition.

I'll eat my shorts if Brian Anderson isn't a better offensive player by season's end than Juan Uribe in his best days, but again, you're crying about our #9 hitter who is playing stellar defense and doing everything the organization has asked him to do, while a 3.15 million dollar veteran SS is hitting .173?

*****. The level of ridiculousness is reaching all-time highs around here.


Now some bafoon is suggesting Ryan Sweeney? What did Brian Anderson hit in AAA last year? Sweeney's not shown he has developed any power on top of that, so why the hell would anyone even bring up his name for a position (CF) that he doesn't even play?

The baseball IQ is reaching historic lows around here... probably approaching the average age of posters considering the knee-jerk reactionism and lack of patience of any kind.

caulfield12
05-02-2006, 04:42 PM
We know Uribe can hit, he was over .400 for six weeks in 2004 and hit really well coming down the stretch (where´s the leg-kick timing mechanism, it worked well last year, as noted earlier)...and he´s one of the five best defensive shortstops in baseball. Uribe´s just the streakiest hitter on the team, and he looks horrible when he is struggling. We all know that. It´s not like anyone is calling for Rob Valido to step in.

On top of that, we have Cintron, who could probably start for 6-8 major league clubs.

There´s more concern with Anderson because we might have reached that critical threshold point where he´s hurting himself psychologically by struggling at the big league level. I hope to God he comes out of it and never has to go to the minors again, as Sweeney and Owens are not equipped to play CF in the majors...and Owens in LF and Pods in CF is not ideal either.

We´re apparently going to have to be patient with him, just as we were with Rowand and Crede. Crede, for a couple of seasons, looked completely lost up there in late-season call-ups.

Nobody is calling for us to resign Joe Borchard and stick him out there everyday. In all likelihood, Mackowiak will start to log more playing time, but he´s not the long-term answer either.

The jury is still out. BA looks like a much better player than Borchard, but their statistics are not remarkably different. If you take away the 2 homer game against Felix Hernandez (as well as the game tying home against Guardado) or Borchard´s 504 foot blast, there´s nothing much, besides Anderson´s defensive ability.

Ol' No. 2
05-02-2006, 04:46 PM
We know Uribe can hit, he was over .400 for six weeks in 2004 and hit really well coming down the stretch (where´s the leg-kick timing mechanism, it worked well last year, as noted earlier)...and he´s one of the five best defensive shortstops in baseball. Uribe´s just the streakiest hitter on the team, and he looks horrible when he is struggling. We all know that. It´s not like anyone is calling for Rob Valido to step in.

On top of that, we have Cintron, who could probably start for 6-8 major league clubs.

There´s more concern with Anderson because we might have reached that critical threshold point where he´s hurting himself psychologically by struggling at the big league level. I hope to God he comes out of it and never has to go to the minors again, as Sweeney and Owens are not equipped to play CF in the majors...and Owens in LF and Pods in CF is not ideal either.

We´re apparently going to have to be patient with him, just as we were with Rowand and Crede. Crede, for a couple of seasons, looked completely lost up there in late-season call-ups.

Nobody is calling for us to resign Joe Borchard and stick him out there everyday. In all likelihood, Mackowiak will start to log more playing time, but he´s not the long-term answer either.

The jury is still out. BA looks like a much better player than Borchard, but their statistics are not remarkably different. If you take away the 2 homer game against Felix Hernandez (as well as the game tying home against Guardado) or Borchard´s 504 foot blast, there´s nothing much, besides Anderson´s defensive ability.There go some more brain cells.:(:

Does the phrase "sample size" mean anything to you?:o:

MarySwiss
05-02-2006, 04:55 PM
If you take away the 2 homer game against Felix Hernandez (as well as the game tying home against Guardado) or Borchard´s 504 foot blast, there´s nothing much, besides Anderson´s defensive ability.

:rolleyes:

caulfield12
05-02-2006, 04:56 PM
BA...career numbers

16 for 105, .152 BA, 4 homers (HR-26.25 AB´s), 9 RBI´s, 37 K´s (35%)



Joe Borchard (first two seasons)

17 for 85, .200 BA, 3 homers (HR-28.33 AB´s), 10 RBI´s, 32 K´s (38%)



I´m sure that BA SHOULD have a longer big league career, but their stats are almost indistinguishable.

Yes, Anderson made it to the big leagues faster, but you would expect that out of college players. Anderson also had a lot more experience at Arizona than Borchard did at Stanford during his career, not to mention splitting time between sports.

caulfield12
05-02-2006, 05:11 PM
1990 ROBIN VENTURA

Started season 7 for 19 (.368)
0 for 41 stretch....batting average (down to .113)

13 for next 54....(.241 for this stretch)

20 for 114 on season at this point (end of May)....(.175)

JUNE 28 for 94, .298 for the month....(.231 through end of JUNE)


The problem is that nobody thinks BA is the next Ventura, hitting wise.

Chicken Dinner
05-02-2006, 05:17 PM
1990 ROBIN VENTURA

Started season 7 for 19 (.368)
0 for 41 stretch....batting average (down to .113)

13 for next 54....(.241 for this stretch)

20 for 114 on season at this point (end of May)....(.175)

JUNE 28 for 94, .298 for the month....(.231 through end of JUNE)


The problem is that nobody thinks BA is the next Ventura, hitting wise.

We hope but it would be nice to see a little taste.

caulfield12
05-02-2006, 05:22 PM
It will be interesting to see Ozzie´s response. When youngsters like Logan and Jenks struggled, he used words to the effect, ¨we´re not here for development...¨ I think that the Sox have had the nice luxury of letting BA play and struggle without being under the microscope he would be under if the team´s record out of the gate were 8-18, like the 2001 team that started 14-29.

It was one of the reasons KW has given for Borchard´s lack of development...that the White Sox couldn´t afford to stick him out there for 500 at-bats and just chalk up the results to learning, as they did with all the youngsters coming up in 1989, 1990 (my favorite Sox season before last year) and 1991.

The White Sox will undoubtedly stick it out, as they don´t have much of a choice. They´ve discarded Rowand, Chris Young, Jeremy Reed and Anthony Webster to let this guy play, and Owens or Sweeney are not going to do the trick either.

Daver
05-02-2006, 05:35 PM
Why do you insist on keeping up this lame as hell argument based on exactly one month of regular playing time?

Poor plate adjustments for a rookie are made in mid June, not in May.

maurice
05-02-2006, 05:59 PM
The problem is that nobody thinks BA is the next Ventura, hitting wise.

Hindsight is 20/20. At that time, it was unclear whether Ventura would hit well at the MLB level. He was very successful hitting for AVE in college, but that was with aluminum bats and a quirky swing that didn't translate well to pro ball. For example, at the age of 22, Ventura hit .278 with 3 HR in 454 ABs at AA. The next year, he hit .249 with 5 HR in 493 ABs for the Sox. The rest was history.

Hitmen77
05-02-2006, 06:49 PM
...The jury is still out. BA looks like a much better player than Borchard, but their statistics are not remarkably different. If you take away the 2 homer game against Felix Hernandez (as well as the game tying home against Guardado) or Borchard´s 504 foot blast, there´s nothing much, besides Anderson´s defensive ability.

I hate to say it, but that is bordering dangerously close to "shoota" logic.

I mean, if you take away Thome's 10 ABs where he crushed the ball out of the park, he been a bit of a disappointment - where's the power we heard about?

santo=dorf
05-03-2006, 04:56 PM
I'll eat my shorts if Brian Anderson isn't a better offensive player by season's end than Juan Uribe in his best days, but again, you're crying about our #9 hitter who is playing stellar defense and doing everything the organization has asked him to do, while a 3.15 million dollar veteran SS is hitting .173?


I think it was silly for him to say every major league player should hit .200 "by accident" and then talk about Uribe without mentioning his low average, but would you please give this a rest?
That 3.15 million really isn't much on a $100 million payroll team. Look at the money Jack Wilson got.

How's your $13 million boy Furcal doing?
.204/.317/.233

ondafarm
05-03-2006, 05:41 PM
I'd like to point out that a few years ago the White Sox acquired a player who'd grown up in Arizona and been quite impressive as a minor leaguer but in the two previous seasons with national league clubs had played in just 82 games with 224 ABs, just 48 hits had struck out 42 times compared to just 17 walks and had a line of .214/ .270 / .326. Sure 7 big homers but a pretty poor defensive showing as well. But the White Sox traded a veteran player for him and decided to work with him and kept him in the lineup. He responded eventually.

This laggard's name: Paul Konerko.

If the Sox could show confidence in PK and I think it's produced results, then leave BA the heck alone. Ozzie can protect him a bit from better right-handers but get him his ABs and he'll be fine. At least give him as long as PK got, BA is currently less than halfway to PK's career ABs when the White Sox acquired him from Cincy for Mike Cameron.

thomas35forever
05-03-2006, 07:16 PM
Yeah, I'm pretty sick of these Brian Anderson threads. Remember when Konerko struggled early last year and couldn't keep his BA above .200? Give the guy some time.

caulfield12
05-03-2006, 07:49 PM
The White Sox have a responsibility to put the team out there on the field that gives them the best chance of winning each game, with the exception of those times they´re protecting players from injury, as with Dye.

Simply put, the lack of production with BA has no correlation to what´s going on with Uribe.

If anybody watched Uribe in the playoffs last year, they´ll know why he´s out there. If OG wanted to bench him and play Cintron, then Alex would be playing. Guillen has seen Uribe for two years now and knows what he´s capable of producing offensively. Nobody knows what BA can or will do yet, as he has yet to establish career ¨norms¨ of any kind.

We made the same excuses for Mark Johnson and Royce Clayton, and that didn´t make their lack of offensive production any less harmful to the team...simply because they hit 8th and 9th.

ode to veeck
05-03-2006, 08:12 PM
We made the same excuses for Mark Johnson and Royce Clayton, and that didn´t make their lack of offensive production any less harmful to the team...simply because they hit 8th and 9th.

Sorry, you're going too far there .. I never made a single excuse for Royce, other than the fact that JM kept parading him out there

ondafarm
05-03-2006, 08:21 PM
The White Sox have a responsibility to put the team out there on the field that gives them the best chance of winning each game, with the exception of those times they´re protecting players from injury, as with Dye.

And that is exactly why BA belongs playing CF. All defensive positions are not created equally. According to the latest Rate 2 stats I've seen, Anderson is playing a godly 136 CF. That means he is cutting down 36 runs every 100 games played. That pencils out at 58 runs over the course of the season. In contrast, ARow is playing a pedestrian 96 CF. So unless you can name me a player the Sox can play in CF who produces 58 runs more than BA will, the White Sox are fielding the team that gives them the best chance of winning every game.

caulfield12
05-03-2006, 08:25 PM
By that logic, we should bench Konerko and play Gload.

Well, the heat´s starting to turn up, the Tigers are going into the Top of the 9th leading 2-1 over the Angels. EDIT....Sox tied with Detroit in the standings.

Speaking of Range 2 factors, what did they rate Roberto Clemente? That statistic is hard to believe. What is the official formula for it? Is it based on some dude in his basement eye-balling every single play in every single game and judging whether it should be made or not by the AVERAGE MLB fielder?

CLR01
05-03-2006, 08:32 PM
Well, the heat´s starting to turn up, the Tigers are going into the Top of the 9th leading 2-1 over the Angels. EDIT....Sox tied with Detroit in the standings.


OMG...you mean we may go down a half a game to the Tigers on May 3rd. :o:


**** YOU KW....if we still had Rowand we would be undefeated!

caulfield12
05-03-2006, 08:47 PM
I am not a fan of Aaron Rowand. I always felt he was a 4th outfielder on a championship-caliber team whose arm was overrated and who took bad to horrible routes many times. I was wrong about that (Rowand playing practically everyday on a champ team), but I am disappointed that BA hasn´t played better.

Ultimately, we´re better off with Vazquez, but I would love to have the insurance of Chris Young in AAA right now, as Sweeney and Owens are never going to be the answer in CF either.

ondafarm
05-03-2006, 08:51 PM
By that logic, we should bench Konerko and play Gload.

No we shouldn't. Gload's numbers come in at about 101 1B. Konerko's Rate2 is about 95. Konerko more than makes up the six rbi difference. Don't even ask me about Gload's OF numbers (mid 80s.)

caulfield12
05-03-2006, 09:05 PM
Okay, by your logic, what CFer in all of MLB would possibly be a better alternative? Nobody?

ondafarm
05-03-2006, 09:11 PM
Okay, by your logic, what CFer in all of MLB would possibly be a better alternative? Nobody?



A lot of CFs would be at this moment. Basicly anybody who'd drive in more than 58 runs in a season and played average defense. ARow would be better at this time, he'll probably drive in 70. But he's not with the White Sox right now.

caulfield12
05-03-2006, 09:14 PM
¨who produces 58 runs more than BA will¨...

But isn´t that assuming BA isn´t going to drive in any runs?

Let´s say he drives in 40 over the course of the season, wouldn´t a better replacement have to get at least 98 RBI´s and be more cost-efficient for the ballclub, as BA´s position is the one that supposed to insulate our payroll for the near future?

ondafarm
05-03-2006, 09:42 PM
¨who produces 58 runs more than BA will¨...

But isn´t that assuming BA isn´t going to drive in any runs?

Let´s say he drives in 40 over the course of the season, wouldn´t a better replacement have to get at least 98 RBI´s and be more cost-efficient for the ballclub, as BA´s position is the one that supposed to insulate our payroll for the near future?

At his current rate he'd be in the mid-twenties. That'd require about 80 rbis minus however far you can get above 100 in Rate2. If ARow played 108 and had 75 rbis then he'd be better. Andruw Jones with the Braves had 128 rbis last year and played a 112 CF Rate2. He'd be about two or three times more valuable than Brian Anderson. Then again, the White Sox don't have Andruw Jones either.

ode to veeck
05-03-2006, 09:46 PM
At his current rate he'd be in the mid-twenties. That'd require about 80 rbis minus however far you can get above 100 in Rate2. If ARow played 108 and had 75 rbis then he'd be better. Andruw Jones with the Braves had 128 rbis last year and played a 112 CF Rate2. He'd be about two or three times more valuable than Brian Anderson. Then again, the White Sox don't have Andruw Jones either.

It's still wayyyyy too early to take ANYONE's stats and predict the season. As it stands, if BA didn't make that catch a few minutes ago, this game is over right now.

ondafarm
05-03-2006, 10:48 PM
Just wondering if this is common knowledge.


A hockey fan was visiting me for a few minutes when Pablo scored the winner and he asked me what the heck Brian Anderson was doing up by the plate as Ozuna raced home. BA was on-deck.


I thought it was common knowledge that the on-deck hitter is always supposed to coach the runner coming to the plate. You give an indication of slide or no, and if you can location of the incoming throw.

Like I said, I thought this was common knowledge, but did you know it?