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View Full Version : Marlins offer Dontrelle Willis to Mets for David Wright


Unregistered
04-23-2006, 12:44 PM
The Marlins made a bombshell trade suggestion to the Mets within the past several weeks - Dontrelle Willis for David Wright - people familiar with the brief trade talk told Newsday.

That obviously would've been a huge trade - but the Mets aren't dumb enough to trade Wright. They can probably sign Dontrelle when he becomes a FA with no problem...

http://www.newsday.com/sports/printedition/ny-sbmside234714144apr23,0,946343.story?coll=ny-sports-print

Ol' No. 2
04-23-2006, 12:53 PM
That obviously would've been a huge trade - but the Mets aren't dumb enough to trade Wright. They can probably sign Dontrelle when he becomes a FA with no problem...If they want to wait until after 2008. By then the Marlins will have traded him away for more cheap prospects.

Lou Brown
04-23-2006, 01:04 PM
Smart on the mets part. Wright is at the very least going to hit like robin ventura. He may not defend like robin, but it's got to be nice to know that third is going to be manned by an allstar for at least ten years. He's a franchise building block type.

QCIASOXFAN
04-23-2006, 01:16 PM
That is a pretty good move on the Mets part, I am not totally sold on Wright yet at this point in his young career. I know that Willis can bring it and how old is he like 24? That Mets rotation will be pretty scary if they get him. David Wright is still very young also and has a chance to be very good at 3rd base also. I think this trade is pretty even.

Lou Brown
04-23-2006, 01:23 PM
That is a pretty good move on the Mets part, I am not totally sold on Wright yet at this point in his young career. I know that Willis can bring it and how old is he like 24? That Mets rotation will be pretty scary if they get him. David Wright is still very young also and has a chance to be very good at 3rd base also. I think this trade is pretty even.

The mets already shot it down, as they should. Wright has had more consistency than Willis. All through his career, he's progressed exactly as you'd expect a four tool player to. Willis has been a bit more up and down. His K/9 rate changing for the worse is not a good sign especially.

Ol' No. 2
04-23-2006, 01:27 PM
Have I stepped into a parallel universe where third basemen are more valuable than starting pitchers?:?:

balke
04-23-2006, 01:40 PM
IF the Mets want to win right now, this would've been a great trade for them. Pedro needs an ace next to him this season. I do think Wright is a great talent, but they have lots of talent as it is on that team hitting-wise. Wright's glovework would be more than made up for by Dontrelle's pitching.

You can't go wrong saying yes or no for the Mets. It would be great to see Pedro and WIllis pitching back to back.

Lou Brown
04-23-2006, 01:50 PM
Have I stepped into a parallel universe where third basemen are more valuable than starting pitchers?:?:
If we were offered Alex Rodriguez for Mark Buehrle and they had the same contract, would you take it? It's all relative to the player and the pitcher. Pitchers aren't always worth more than third basemen.

fquaye149
04-23-2006, 01:54 PM
If we were offered Alex Rodriguez for Mark Buehrle and they had the same contract, would you take it? It's all relative to the player and the pitcher. Pitchers aren't always worth more than third basemen.

A better comparison would be Scott Rolen for a healthy Roy Halladay...although Willis isn't really that good - but he's a traditional ace, cy-young contender, etc. etc. Not to mention the fact that Willis CONTENDED for the cy young last year whereas Wright doesn't even PROJECT to be quite as good as Rolen.

Lou Brown
04-23-2006, 01:57 PM
Wright doesn't even PROJECT to be quite as good as Rolen.

That is actually 100% false. Every projection I've ever seen projects Wright's future to be consistent .300/.400/.530 with 20ish steals. Rolen came close to that one year and one year only (he doesn't have the speed, but he hit the %s).

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/pecota/wrighda03.php

Normally I don't think very much of thsoe guys, but when they say the same thing as every scout writeup out there, you have to listen.

SouthSide_HitMen
04-23-2006, 04:24 PM
Have I stepped into a parallel universe where third basemen are more valuable than starting pitchers?:?:

A regular plays everyday while a starter plays 1/5th of the games . And we are not talking about the average starter. Pujols, Wright and Cabrera's combination of age (young) and ability make them untradeable players in my opinion.

Plus between Willis' injury history, the fact that his wild delivery makes him an even higher risk than most pitchers who break down quite frequently (and is the reason the White Sox will not sign a pitcher for more than 3 years). Also, Willis has benefited greatly from pitching not only in the ***** league of baseball (courtesy of White Sox MVP Dick Allen which still rings true over 30 years later) but also in an extreme pitchers park (see Pavano and Burnett).

Pujols, Cabrera and Wright look to be the best in a generation type players, Willis isn't even close.

TaylorStSox
04-23-2006, 04:49 PM
Don't the Marlins already have a damn good 3rd baseman? I don't believe this at all. The Mets would be idiots to not trade a premier starter for a 3rd baseman. I don't care if the kid is going to be the next Schmidt.

SouthSide_HitMen
04-23-2006, 05:00 PM
Don't the Marlins already have a damn good 3rd baseman? I don't believe this at all. The Mets would be idiots to not trade a premier starter for a 3rd baseman. I don't care if the kid is going to be the next Schmidt.

Well as a Mets fan I am glad Omar knows better.

Jjav829
04-23-2006, 05:04 PM
I wouldn't do it either. Why give up the best young 3B in baseball for Willis when you know their asking price is going to eventually come down if they are committed to trading Willis? It makes no sense. They are better off waiting a little while and using Milledge to get Willis.

Aside from the whole baseball part of the trade, I believe Wright is to Mets fans what Jeter is to Yankees fans. In other words, if the Mets were to trade Wright, even if they got fair value for him, the Mets fans would go nuts.

Chisox003
04-23-2006, 05:12 PM
I wouldn't do it either. Why give up the best young 3B in baseball for Willis when you know their asking price is going to eventually come down if they are committed to trading Willis? It makes no sense. They are better off waiting a little while and using Milledge to get Willis.

Aside from the whole baseball part of the trade, I believe Wright is to Mets fans what Jeter is to Yankees fans. In other words, if the Mets were to trade Wright, even if they got fair value for him, the Mets fans would go nuts.
I love it when you analyze.

There are very few (if any) players I'd trade straight up for Wright.

He's THAT good.

RealMenWearBlack
04-23-2006, 05:15 PM
That is actually 100% false. Every projection I've ever seen projects Wright's future to be consistent .300/.400/.530 with 20ish steals. Rolen came close to that one year and one year only (he doesn't have the speed, but he hit the %s).

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/pecota/wrighda03.php

Normally I don't think very much of thsoe guys, but when they say the same thing as every scout writeup out there, you have to listen.

Did he get banned for bringing Baseball Prospectus into the argument? If so :rolling: and :bandance: .

TaylorStSox
04-23-2006, 05:23 PM
While the Mets position players are young. They have a short window with their starters. Adding Willis probably means that we're facing them in the series. Sorry. I don't want to face Pedro, Glavine and Willis.

Baby Fisk
04-23-2006, 05:45 PM
I didn't think the Mets would get off to this kind of roaring start because I thought they were missing one (maybe two?) quality starters. The Mets' problem is that they do not have a bona fide short rotation for the playoffs. Trachsel? Zambrano? The Bannister kid? That would be laughable in the playoffs. Adding Willis would rectify the Mets' biggest hole in a big way.

But I vote NO to this trade, primarily because I own a David Wright Mets T-shirt. :redface:

GoSox2K3
04-23-2006, 06:06 PM
If we were offered Alex Rodriguez for Mark Buehrle and they had the same contract, would you take it? It's all relative to the player and the pitcher. Pitchers aren't always worth more than third basemen.

I wouldn't. I'm serious - we'd be crazy to get rid of Buehrle, even if it was for A-Rod. And that's not intended as a slight on A-Rod's talent.

California Sox
04-23-2006, 06:18 PM
I love Dontrelle Willis, don't get me wrong, but Wright is the face of the franchise. Not only is he a damn fine ballplayer offensively and defensively, but he is a great kid, in short, they're building their franchise around him.

Now add to that they have Pelfrey and Milledge who will either be up soon or valuable trading chips, it makes no sense to break up the chemistry of your team and its image to your fans to get Willis.

But you know what this tells me? Miguel Cabrera's days in South Florida are numbered. It's been whispered that he's a selfish ballplayer. Clearly if they want Wright it's because they want to get rid of Cabrera.

balke
04-23-2006, 06:20 PM
What's this "Injury history" of Willis? I don't know of that. He's started at least 27 games in every season he's played so far. He also racked up 46 wins in 3 seasons of work.

Willis is a great pitcher, the perfect fit for the Mets right now, as they look to be on a championship run.

Mets are wise to hold on to a great young 3Bman, but if they made this deal I don't think it would be heartbreaking or stupid in anyway. Jjav is right in saying they can wait out for a better deal, but there's no guarantee they can get a pitcher like this anywhere else in the league (Maybe Clemens comes back to baseball and pitches for the Mets?). No, Willis is not as good as Clemens, but he's probably a top 10 pitcher in all of baseball, and he can swing some wood. He's even winning now on a depleted Marlins team.

SouthSide_HitMen
04-23-2006, 06:35 PM
What's this "Injury history" of Willis? I don't know of that. He's started at least 27 games in every season he's played so far. He also racked up 46 wins in 3 seasons of work.

Willis is a great pitcher, the perfect fit for the Mets right now, as they look to be on a championship run.

Mets are wise to hold on to a great young 3Bman, but if they made this deal I don't think it would be heartbreaking or stupid in anyway. Jjav is right in saying they can wait out for a better deal, but there's no guarantee they can get a pitcher like this anywhere else in the league (Maybe Clemens comes back to baseball and pitches for the Mets?). No, Willis is not as good as Clemens, but he's probably a top 10 pitcher in all of baseball, and he can swing some wood. He's even winning now on a depleted Marlins team.

If you watch his delivery, he is a candidate to break down at any moment. I don't think his style will be sustainable long term.

Who will be hitting for the Mets assuming Willis can help them reach the playoffs with a black hole at third base. They have two other top hitters - Delgado and Beltran and Beltran has been injured / dropped off moving to Shea.

Our pitching was awesome last year but the Angels (Vlad) and Astros (Bagwell) were without their top weapons. I'd take Pedro over Willis everytime. Willis played in one playoffs (8.53 ERA). Dolphin stadium makes him look much better than he is.

Pujols, Cabrera and Wright are almost untradeable and there are many young pitchers I would take before Willis (Santana, Buehrle, Oswalt, Halladay, Peavy, Sheets, Harden, Beckett and King Felix for starters).

balke
04-23-2006, 07:35 PM
If you watch his delivery, he is a candidate to break down at any moment. I don't think his style will be sustainable long term.

Who will be hitting for the Mets assuming Willis can help them reach the playoffs with a black hole at third base. They have two other top hitters - Delgado and Beltran and Beltran has been injured / dropped off moving to Shea.

Our pitching was awesome last year but the Angels (Vlad) and Astros (Bagwell) were without their top weapons. I'd take Pedro over Willis everytime. Willis played in one playoffs (8.53 ERA). Dolphin stadium makes him look much better than he is.

Pujols, Cabrera and Wright are almost untradeable and there are many young pitchers I would take before Willis (Santana, Buehrle, Oswalt, Halladay, Peavy, Sheets, Harden, Beckett and King Felix for starters).

There's no doubt you'd take Pedro over Willis, you'd be crazy not to. I'd take Willis over any other starter on the Mets on anyday of the week, with any delivery. I'm arguing more for Willis in the short term, win now philosophy. I think between Reyes, Delgado, Cliff Floyd, Lo Duca, Nady, Matsui, Beltran, and Valenstache, they'll find some way to score enough runs to continue winning (Especially with the right pitching). I'd for sure rather have Wright in my lineup than the stache, or whoever wants to play third, but I'd still argue a good pitcher will outweigh Wright's worth in the short term. Long term, it makes more sense to keep Wright and build around him to me.

People talk a lot about Willis' delivery, but he's yet to have many issues with it so far. In fact, I think its a much better delivery since he tweaked it last offseason, one that isn't pulling his arm out at the shoulder. I think he can pitch long term, mainly cause he uses his legs so much when delivering.

For the record, I think you like the pitchers you mentioned based on how fast they pitch. I also think its kinda self-defeating to say you don't like Willis cause he can get injured, then to turn around and say you'd rather have Sheets or Beckett on your team. Sheets when healthy is a better pitcher maybe, its hard to tell anymore he's DL'd so much. I still say right now Willis is a top 10 range pitcher, old pitchers included. Why? Cause he's done more than most of the people on that list, at the age of 24, and uses his bat while doing it. He's got energy and knows how to get people out when its important. He also completes a lot of games.

As far as his playoff ERA, He was a rookie who crapped down his leg. He also mixed in relief appearances in the playoffs that inflated his ERA. I hated him back then, and his delivery was terrible then. But watching him last year, he's a completely different pitcher. I think he could be very good for a long time. At this rate, he'll moonwalk to 200 wins.

These are two of the top young players in the game. It makes a lot of sense to keep Wright around for sure. As a Sox fan already thinking of the Playoffs, I'd be more worried about a Mets team with:

Pedro/Dontrelle/Glavine/Wagner

Than I would a Mets team with:

Floyd/Beltran/Delgado/Wright.

Great pitching beats great hitting.

FedEx227
04-23-2006, 08:49 PM
Whoever said Wright is to the Mets what Jeter is to the Yanks had it right on the money. Wright was their creation, came up in their minors, and has proven so far (remember hes in his 2nd FULL season) to be one of the top 2-3 Third basemen in the game already, and all signs appear for him to get better.

As the poster above said, it would be pure mutiny with Mets fans if they traded Wright at this point in his career.

SouthSide_HitMen
04-23-2006, 10:40 PM
There's no doubt you'd take Pedro over Willis, you'd be crazy not to. I'd take Willis over any other starter on the Mets on anyday of the week, with any delivery. I'm arguing more for Willis in the short term, win now philosophy. I think between Reyes, Delgado, Cliff Floyd, Lo Duca, Nady, Matsui, Beltran, and Valenstache, they'll find some way to score enough runs to continue winning (Especially with the right pitching). I'd for sure rather have Wright in my lineup than the stache, or whoever wants to play third, but I'd still argue a good pitcher will outweigh Wright's worth in the short term. Long term, it makes more sense to keep Wright and build around him to me.

People talk a lot about Willis' delivery, but he's yet to have many issues with it so far. In fact, I think its a much better delivery since he tweaked it last offseason, one that isn't pulling his arm out at the shoulder. I think he can pitch long term, mainly cause he uses his legs so much when delivering.

For the record, I think you like the pitchers you mentioned based on how fast they pitch. I also think its kinda self-defeating to say you don't like Willis cause he can get injured, then to turn around and say you'd rather have Sheets or Beckett on your team. Sheets when healthy is a better pitcher maybe, its hard to tell anymore he's DL'd so much. I still say right now Willis is a top 10 range pitcher, old pitchers included. Why? Cause he's done more than most of the people on that list, at the age of 24, and uses his bat while doing it. He's got energy and knows how to get people out when its important. He also completes a lot of games.

As far as his playoff ERA, He was a rookie who crapped down his leg. He also mixed in relief appearances in the playoffs that inflated his ERA. I hated him back then, and his delivery was terrible then. But watching him last year, he's a completely different pitcher. I think he could be very good for a long time. At this rate, he'll moonwalk to 200 wins.

These are two of the top young players in the game. It makes a lot of sense to keep Wright around for sure. As a Sox fan already thinking of the Playoffs, I'd be more worried about a Mets team with:

Pedro/Dontrelle/Glavine/Wagner

Than I would a Mets team with:

Floyd/Beltran/Delgado/Wright.

Great pitching beats great hitting.

Well we will have to agree to disagree.

Hitters play every day, not 33 games a year or 1 or possibly 2 playoff games in a series. The White Sox pitched well down the stretch and in the playoffs but the last two series they faced weak offenses (middle of the AL Anaheim (7th in run scored) with an injured Vlad and Houston who was 11th in the NL and 24th overall in runs scored without Bagwell).

Being a long time Mets fan, there is hope that every year they are on the verge of winning so I take this start with a grain of salt. They will always have more money than their divisional opponents with their new TV deal and upcoming stadium so there is no need to throw away their top player today and in the future for a pitcher whose numbers are helped more by Dolphins Stadium (and the other divisional pitcher parks he plays in - Shea, RFK, Atlanta) than any of the pitchers I listed. Santana, Buehrle, Halladay, Harden have proved their stuff in the professional league (which King Felix and Beckett are also showing they can handle) and Sheets and Oswalt play in the National League's best division and in home run parks. Sheets has had the one injury (mid season last year which he came back from this spring) and looks to have recovered fully. Beckett has been bothered by blisters, not arm problems so while he missed a few starts each year, they have no effect on his injury risk as far as his arm goes and may have saved him from over use his first few years.

I just think Willis had many innings last year at a young age (236 1/3 IP - 5th in MLB) and he has a higher than normal injury risk. Even if one thought he had zero injury risk and would be guaranteed to pitch 200 innings per season I don't think he is worth a franchise player which David Wright is. While a pitcher is more important in a particular game, over the course of the season an elite player contributes more to their team because they play in 5 times the number of games and thus have a bigger impact on the team over the course of a season.

balke
04-23-2006, 11:15 PM
The White Sox pitched well down the stretch and in the playoffs but the last two series they faced weak offenses (middle of the AL Anaheim (7th in run scored) with an injured Vlad and Houston who was 11th in the NL and 24th overall in runs scored without Bagwell).
The White Sox beat the defending champion Boston Red Sox who had Johnny Damon, David Ortiz, Manny Ramirez and Jason Varitek. The White Sox won because they had better pitching. I would argue the Red Sox lost because they didn't have Pedro anymore, and Clement couldn't do it on his own with an injured Schilling.


Santana, Buehrle, Halladay, Harden have proved their stuff in the professional league (which King Felix and Beckett are also showing they can handle) and Sheets and Oswalt play in the National League's best division and in home run parks.


Santana is an amazing pitcher, god love the guy. Halladay as well. Oswalt I think may be better than all of them. But, the Mets aren't being offered Oswalt or Santana. And Dontrelle isn't exactly far behind any of these players. He wins. I'm not going to rank all these pitchers though, that's a completely different thread. Bottom line, Dontrelle is a little underrated by you. The only pitcher you listed who is younger than Dontrelle is Felix Hernandez, and he hasn't proven anything yet. He's 0-2 right now with a lot of strikeouts and a lot of HR's (0-2 w/ 4 HR's given up so far this season). Sheets is a heck of a player when he's on the field, but he's having a lot of problems staying healthy lately. Last years injury stretched into the beginning of this season, and he's still trying to find his form. Plus, Dontrelle's last season was better than any season of Sheets thus far statistically.

I just think Willis had many innings last year at a young age (236 1/3 IP - 5th in MLB) and he has a higher than normal injury risk. Even if one thought he had zero injury risk and would be guaranteed to pitch 200 innings per season I don't think he is worth a franchise player which David Wright is.
Dontrelle Willis has proven himself as well, he's winning at a faster rate than any of these players. Noone on this list has had more wins in a single season than Dontrelle did last season (22). Halladay, Beckett, Sheets, Harden have all been injured enough to miss large portions of a season (10 or more games). Dontrelle Willis to my knowledge hasn't been injured yet. How is he the risk? I can look at his unorthodox delivery, but it doesn't automatically mean that delivery makes him more injury prone than Josh Beckett or Sheets who throw 100 MPH fireballs 70 percent of the game.

All of these pitchers listed have pitched in pretty good parks. Beckett the same park. Park doesn't mean anything in this discussion, Dontrelle so far has shown he can flat-out pitch.


David Wright is a franchise player. If the MEts want to win now though, they really could use a pitcher like Dontrelle. Ask the Red Sox how it feels to show up in the playoffs without a couple stud pitchers leading the charge. Ask the Cardinals if they would've liked having Dontrelle instead of Rolen in the playoff series v. the Astros last season.

Anyways, like I said long term, stay with Wright. This trade will never happen, I just don't think it would be stupid if the Mets said yes.

SouthSide_HitMen
04-23-2006, 11:43 PM
Anyways, like I said long term, stay with Wright. This trade will never happen

Something all of us (Omar, you and I) can all agree on.

PS - Sheets had 1 injury (and has pitched two more years) and is fully recovered. Beckett's injury has nothing to do with throwing 100 mph - his injuries are blister related.