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FoulTerritory
04-22-2006, 08:19 PM
So, I was at the cards/cubs game today at St. Louis, and I was sporting my Cubs Suck T-shirt -- the same T-shirt I wore last year to a Cubs/Cards game -- and I was told I had to take it off when I was entering the park by some small mean lady. Apparently "suck" violates obscene language rules. She lecturingly said to me, "This is a family atmosphere. If you put it back on when your inside, you'll be ejected. I'm taking note of where your seat is."


I found this strange considering you see these shirts all over the cell during the cross-town series. And it isn't like the shirt said "Cardinals Suck"

Weird situation.

Railsplitter
04-22-2006, 08:39 PM
Saying "(insert mame here) sucks" isn't exactly a sign of a highly developed intelligence.

credeistheman
04-22-2006, 08:49 PM
ugh. though the whole "family atmosphere" arguement has its merits i feel like this kind of restriction is clearly crossing the line.

HomeFish
04-22-2006, 08:51 PM
The Cardinals are one of my next favorite teams after the Sox, but St. Louis fans and the atmosphere at the stadium down there creep me out.

I went to a few games there in 2004, and I heckled an umpire, and the ENTIRE SECTION I was sitting in just glared at me as if I had stolen candy from a baby.

buehrle4cy05
04-22-2006, 08:59 PM
It's like that in other places. I went to a game in Seattle in 2002 against the Rangers. When A-Rod comes up, I start booing. Maybe 3 or 4 other fans around me booed. It was one of the most pitiful things I've ever seen. And then, later in the game, Freddy Garcia was having some trouble throwing strikes, and I'm thinking, "If Freddy Garcia was in Chicago, the fans would be all over him now." Instead of saying, "Freddy, throw a strike, you suck!!!" or "Freddy, get your head out of you ass and pitch!" it was "Oh, come on Freddy...you can do better" in almost a whiny, wimpy tone.

I guess being a sports fan in Chicago makes a lot of other fan bases look wimpy.

1951Campbell
04-22-2006, 09:56 PM
ugh. though the whole "family atmosphere" arguement has its merits i feel like this kind of restriction is clearly crossing the line.

When I was a kid, I felt the ballpark was an "adult" place and it was cool and a privilege to be there. There were people smoking, drinking, talking smack, heckling, making some side bets, all kinds of cross-talk...as long as no one fighting or dropping f-bombs or something, it's fine. Now it seems like teams want to make it like Chuck E. Cheese with a ballgame going on.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-22-2006, 10:25 PM
Kudos to the Cardinals for making fans turn "suck" shirts inside out. It's too bad the Sox don't enforce it similarly.

You want to make an ass of yourself, do it at your own house. There is nothing even remotely clever about such a statement except to the dull-witted.

Scottiehaswheels
04-22-2006, 10:30 PM
I guess being a sports fan in Chicago makes a lot of other fan bases look wimpy.

How about booing your own players makes you look like a fool? How bout that? I hate it when people boo their own team.... Opening night I had 2 brothers sitting in front of me.... One kid starts booing Politte while he was pitching and the other kid smacked him upside the head... If he wasn't obviously underage I would have bought that guy a beer.

I kinda hope the kid that got smacked in his head was you, sounds like you need it.

D. TODD
04-22-2006, 10:35 PM
Kudos to the Cardinals for making fans turn "suck" shirts inside out. It's too bad the Sox don't enforce it similarly.

You want to make an ass of yourself, do it at your own house. There is nothing even remotely clever about such a statement except to the dull-witted. I agree with you. The fans who don't encourage the loudmouth hecklers yelling that so and so suck, and to get your head out of your ass have the right idea as well. You can scream insults if you want, but everybody around you doesen't have to go along with you and be happy about it, toughguy.

DaveIsHere
04-22-2006, 10:48 PM
Kudos to the Cardinals for making fans turn "suck" shirts inside out. It's too bad the Sox don't enforce it similarly.

You want to make an ass of yourself, do it at your own house. There is nothing even remotely clever about such a statement except to the dull-witted.

It is a ballgame, you have a right to wear a shirt that says "Sucks" if you want do, it is not violent language. Sometimes it seems people are way too afraid to offend someone. A baseball game is all about heckling and talking smack, lewd language is not included, but "Sucks" is more than appropriate.

GMAB

Johnny Mostil
04-22-2006, 10:50 PM
So, I was at the cards/cubs game today at St. Louis, and I was sporting my Cubs Suck T-shirt -- the same T-shirt I wore last year to a Cubs/Cards game -- and I was told I had to take it off when I was entering the park by some small mean lady. Apparently "suck" violates obscene language rules. She lecturingly said to me, "This is a family atmosphere. If you put it back on when your inside, you'll be ejected. I'm taking note of where your seat is."


I found this strange considering you see these shirts all over the cell during the cross-town series. And it isn't like the shirt said "Cardinals Suck"

Weird situation.

Um, am I mistaken on the etymology here? Regardless, if "Cardinals Suck" wouldn't be acceptable (and I don't think it should be in St. Louis or elsewhere), why would "Cubs Suck"?

I hate sometimes having to walk with my kids by vendors outside the Cel selling "Cubs Suck" t-shirts (or worse), but maybe that's just me.

TornLabrum
04-22-2006, 11:05 PM
I think that one considers the origin of the phrase, i.e. what originally followed the word sucks, is what still makes it obscene in the eyes of those of us old enough to remember the original phrase.

viagracat
04-22-2006, 11:08 PM
I just think those kind of shirts are bush. :?:

voodoochile
04-22-2006, 11:11 PM
I always preferred my "Sosa Sucks Cork" t-shirt anyway...

Johnny Mostil
04-22-2006, 11:11 PM
I think that one considers the origin of the phrase, i.e. what originally followed the word sucks, is what still makes it obscene in the eyes of those of us old enough to remember the original phrase.

Thank you. I thought that was the problem here, and wasn't sure if I was imagining it or if it was something "young'uns" had forgotten (or never knew?!?) . . .

voodoochile
04-22-2006, 11:16 PM
Thank you. I thought that was the problem here, and wasn't sure if I was imagining it or if it was something "young'uns" had forgotten (or never knew?!?) . . .

It's come to be a generic term for bad. It's like saying "BS". Most of the time you can get away with that now, even though the original phrase is not considered remotely polite.

D. TODD
04-22-2006, 11:27 PM
I remember being at a Sox/Yankee game when the park began to ROCK with a Reggie sucks chant after Jackson returned to rightfield after hitting an upper deck bomb. I joined in breifly until my dad quickly gave me that "look" and that was enough said. I didn't see it as vulgar at the time, but I put 1 and 1 together and figured it out pretty quick.

Johnny Mostil
04-22-2006, 11:29 PM
It's come to be a generic term for bad. It's like saying "BS". Most of the time you can get away with that now, even though the original phrase is not considered remotely polite.

Well, I actually did look up "suck" in my M-W Collegiate 10th edition, and found, among others, this definition: "to be objectionable or inadequate," with two citations listed: "our lifestyle sucks," quoted from Playboy, and "people who went said it sucked," quoted from H. S. Thompson. To my surprise, the definition was considered "slang" and not "obscene" or even "vulgar." Still, as noted, if the original poster agrees "Cardinals Suck" wouldn't be acceptable, I'm not sure why "Cubs Suck" would be. Of course, we are talking about National League baseball here, so "objectionable" or "inadequate" may be appropriate after all.

The only time I've found "suck" to be funny was Homer Simpson's over-the-top usage to discuss the "suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked," but, again that may just be me . . .

voodoochile
04-22-2006, 11:31 PM
The only time I've found "suck" to be funny was Homer Simpson's over-the-top usage to discuss the "suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked," but, again that may just be me . . .

Or as Bart once noted...

"This both sucks and blows at the same time and I always thought that was physically impossible."

(I probably screwed it up, but you get the point...):redface:

CubKilla
04-22-2006, 11:33 PM
Looks as if the PC Police made it to St. L for the Cards/Cubs series. Too bad.

Why don't we all just sit on our hands and cheer with claps only when the Sox do splendidly and guffaw when the Sox make boo-boos in the field :rolleyes:

PaleHoseGeorge
04-22-2006, 11:41 PM
You have the right to make an ass of yourself on the street. The First Amendment guarantees it. You have no right to make an ass of yourself inside a ballpark. It's private property.

Kudos to the Cardinals for handling boorish behavior by dullards who think wearing a shirt that says "suck" is even remotely clever.

:b&b
"heh... heh, heh... his shirt says suck... heh... heh, heh..."

FarWestChicago
04-23-2006, 12:05 AM
So, I was at the cards/cubs game today at St. Louis, and I was sporting my Cubs Suck T-shirt -- the same T-shirt I wore last year to a Cubs/Cards game -- and I was told I had to take it off when I was entering the park by some small mean lady. Apparently "suck" violates obscene language rules. She lecturingly said to me, "This is a family atmosphere. If you put it back on when your inside, you'll be ejected. I'm taking note of where your seat is."


I found this strange considering you see these shirts all over the cell during the cross-town series. And it isn't like the shirt said "Cardinals Suck"

Weird situation.Bravo to anybody who kept the Flubsessed out of a ballpark. Find a team to pull for instead of being against another.

Viva Medias B's
04-23-2006, 12:37 AM
To me, someone who wears a "CUBS SUCK" shirt or similar apparel is more interested in hating the Cubs than cheering for their own team.

Pureone
04-23-2006, 01:34 AM
You have the right to make an ass of yourself on the street. The First Amendment guarantees it. You have no right to make an ass of yourself inside a ballpark. It's private property.

Kudos to the Cardinals for handling boorish behavior by dullards who think wearing a shirt that says "suck" is even remotely clever.

:b&b
"heh... heh, heh... his shirt says suck... heh... heh, heh..."

I don't have those shirts but I think they are funny. Why not wear them? How is he making an ass of himself?

It might not be clever but it gets the point across. Also, even if it is private property there is nothing you sign that says you will not wear something that is offensive... even though 'suck' isn't offensive or wrong in the way it is put.

RealMenWearBlack
04-23-2006, 01:54 AM
To me, someone who wears a "CUBS SUCK" shirt or similar apparel is more interested in hating the Cubs than cheering for their own team.

Although this may be true, the original poster may not own Cardinals gear since he is a White Sox fan.

skobabe8
04-23-2006, 02:02 AM
Cards fans are a different breed. The one STL game I went to (2004) resulted in a Cardinal victory. I tried to start a "Lets Go Cardinals" chant after the game awaiting the train (Yes I had a couple beers) with the crowd but failed miserably. Everyone was mostly quiet. It was strange.

ComiskeyBrewer
04-23-2006, 03:35 AM
It is a ballgame, you have a right to wear a shirt that says "Sucks" if you want do, it is not violent language.

It is also the Team's right to judge what is lewd and what isn't. If they allow "sucks" they might feel it will cause a slipperly slope.

DaveIsHere
04-23-2006, 09:03 AM
It is also the Team's right to judge what is lewd and what isn't. If they allow "sucks" they might feel it will cause a slipperly slope.

This is true, personally I think it is going overboard making them turn it inside out, but it is their right. I hate the people thatwear the Cubs Suck shirts at the Cell, but I am not offended. Though, I do think they are idiots.

I changed my mind, we should get the Sox to do the same deal so I do not have to see that C-word at the game.....it makes me wanna throw up when I hear that word.:D:

Layla
04-23-2006, 09:16 AM
I don't think it was that bad of the Cardinals.

To me, it just kind of seems tacky. Chanting " (fill in the blank) Sucks" is unoriginal.

MadetoOrta
04-23-2006, 09:37 AM
The whole _____ SUCKS t-shirts craze is pathetic. I still do like the t-shirt with the picture of the Sox hat and the Cubs hat where under the Sox hat it says "This is your brain" and under the Cubs hat it says "This is your brain on drugs."

MrRoboto83
04-23-2006, 09:43 AM
Why not just wear a shirt that says "I hate the Cubs" that is not offensive and actually would stand out better. To me "hate" is a more serious word than "suck"

cws05champ
04-23-2006, 10:25 AM
CUBS SUCK! I find the word CUBS much more offensive than SUCK!:D:

MarySwiss
04-23-2006, 11:56 AM
Well, I actually did look up "suck" in my M-W Collegiate 10th edition, and found, among others, this definition: "to be objectionable or inadequate," with two citations listed: "our lifestyle sucks," quoted from Playboy, and "people who went said it sucked," quoted from H. S. Thompson. To my surprise, the definition was considered "slang" and not "obscene" or even "vulgar." Still, as noted, if the original poster agrees "Cardinals Suck" wouldn't be acceptable, I'm not sure why "Cubs Suck" would be. Of course, we are talking about National League baseball here, so "objectionable" or "inadequate" may be appropriate after all.

The only time I've found "suck" to be funny was Homer Simpson's over-the-top usage to discuss the "suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked," but, again that may just be me . . .
I have to admit that I use the word "suck" quite a bit...usually in reference to myself, e.g., "I really suck at this." Although Hal and others are right, of course, about the original phrase, I think what you found in the dictionary more accurately reflects the way the term is used today, and that it is more slangy than anything else.
That said, I wouldn't buy or wear a shirt that read "_____ sucks" simply because I don't think it's particularly clever or creative.

Ol' No. 2
04-23-2006, 12:10 PM
While I agree that there's nothing clever about a "Cubs Suck" T-shirt, the number of vendors selling them outside the park (and the number selling the Sox equivalent 8.1 miles north) demonstrate that there's no shortage of people who don't share that opinion. If we start limiting attendance to the clever and intelligent, we're going to have to get used to much smaller crowds. Obviously, some standard of decency needs to be enforced. I just don't think a "Cubs Suck" T-shirt crosses it.

FoulTerritory
04-23-2006, 12:16 PM
Just for the record, I was not trying to be creative or clever, but rather was just trying to be a little irreverent and trigger a little banter with the Cards fans. Last year when I wore it to a cards/cubs game, a lot of Cards fans got a kick out of it, and it triggered some good natured conversation and banter in the smoking area mostly, with both cards and cubs fans, and how sox fans feel about their rivalry etc. I personally don't think my own intelligence or lack there of has much to do with wearing a Cubs Suck shirt, but whatever.

voodoochile
04-23-2006, 12:22 PM
Just for the record, I was not trying to be creative or clever, but rather was just trying to be a little irreverent and trigger a little banter with the Cards fans. Last year when I wore it to a cards/cubs game, a lot of Cards fans got a kick out of it, and it triggered some good natured conversation and banter in the smoking area mostly, with both cards and cubs fans, and how sox fans feel about their rivalry etc. I personally don't think my own intelligence or lack there of has much to do with wearing a Cubs Suck shirt, but whatever.

I concur and feel the general disdain which has been shown for the word "suck" in this thread is contemptable. In fact I find it deplorable. It leaves me cold and withered on the inside as a man berift of home and country. I can no more approve the condemnation of this venerable word than I would approve of the team it was used to denigrate.

In short it sucks...:supernana:

PaleHoseGeorge
04-23-2006, 12:32 PM
Just for the record, I was not trying to be creative or clever, but rather was just trying to be a little irreverent and trigger a little banter with the Cards fans. Last year when I wore it to a cards/cubs game, a lot of Cards fans got a kick out of it, and it triggered some good natured conversation and banter in the smoking area mostly, with both cards and cubs fans, and how sox fans feel about their rivalry etc. I personally don't think my own intelligence or lack there of has much to do with wearing a Cubs Suck shirt, but whatever.
Wear it around the house and nobody complains. Wear it on the street and not a single police officer will touch a hair on your head.

Wear it into a baseball park and you're liable to be asked to turn it inside out, not unlike any number of vulgarities and uncivil behavior not tolerated by polite society generally. The Cardinals are putting their foot down. I wish the White Sox would, too.

In other words, deal with it. You crossed a line and have no recourse other than whine about it... something you appear willing to keep doing.
:?:

credeistheman
04-23-2006, 12:50 PM
When I was a kid, I felt the ballpark was an "adult" place and it was cool and a privilege to be there. There were people smoking, drinking, talking smack, heckling, making some side bets, all kinds of cross-talk...as long as no one fighting or dropping f-bombs or something, it's fine. Now it seems like teams want to make it like Chuck E. Cheese with a ballgame going on.

i feel the same way. i just don't like the way that going to the ballpark has been turned into a completely benign, family atmosphere that's devoid of real passion.

go to a soccer game in latin america or europe–the experience will change your outlook on what passionate fandom means...and you better believe they don't make fans take off their "river plate son putos" shirt.

Lou Brown
04-23-2006, 12:57 PM
I really don't like those shirts. I was lucky enough to get a wife that loves watching baseball on tv and in person. Where I was unlucky is in that she is a cub fan. I go to wrigley to keep her happy, she comes to the cell to keep me happy. It's a weird feeling for both of us outside both parks when we walk past those shirt vendors.

SOXintheBURGH
04-23-2006, 01:00 PM
:threadsucks

PaleHoseGeorge
04-23-2006, 01:02 PM
i feel the same way. i just don't like the way that going to the ballpark has been turned into a completely benign, family atmosphere that's devoid of real passion.

go to a soccer game in latin america or europe–the experience will change your outlook on what passionate fandom means...and you better believe they don't make fans take off their "river plate son putos" shirt.

Ah yes, the defense of the lowest common denominator. I'm sure you think the most passionate Latin American futbol fans are the ones peeing into a can and throwing the contents through the steel fence at rivals standing on the terrace in the next section over. I chalked it up to boorish behavior borne of third world sanitation facilities, but now I realize -- thanks to you -- that the Urinal is devoid of truly passionate fans because they only pee into the sinks.

:kukoo:

doogiec
04-23-2006, 01:30 PM
Not to hijack the thread, but to further illustrate intelligence of those who scream or wear "____ Sucks", I went with some friends to the Brewers/Reds game in Milwaukee yesterday.

After the game, some idiot wearing a White Sox hat and jersey was running up to random fans screaming "Brewers Suck" in their faces to try to provoke fights. Never mind the fact that the Sox weren't playing there, don't play the Brewers all year, the Brewers just destroyed the Reds and set a MLB record in the process, and actually look like a pretty good team this year.

I've generally found that the fans wearing the "____ Sucks" shirts or the "Wrigley Gay Bar" shirts know far less about the game than the average fan, and are more interested in provoking fights than enjoying the game.

Palehose13
04-23-2006, 02:02 PM
So, I was at the cards/cubs game today at St. Louis, and I was sporting my Cubs Suck T-shirt -- the same T-shirt I wore last year to a Cubs/Cards game -- and I was told I had to take it off when I was entering the park by some small mean lady. Apparently "suck" violates obscene language rules. She lecturingly said to me, "This is a family atmosphere. If you put it back on when your inside, you'll be ejected. I'm taking note of where your seat is."


I found this strange considering you see these shirts all over the cell during the cross-town series. And it isn't like the shirt said "Cardinals Suck"

Weird situation.

I always thought that St. Louis was a classy organization. It is nice to see my thoughts confirmed.

Palehose13
04-23-2006, 02:05 PM
It is a ballgame, you have a right to wear a shirt that says "Sucks" if you want do, it is not violent language. Sometimes it seems people are way too afraid to offend someone. A baseball game is all about heckling and talking smack, lewd language is not included, but "Sucks" is more than appropriate.

GMAB

Sorry Dave, but I disagree. To me baseball is about scoring more runs than your opponent before your 27 outs.

credeistheman
04-23-2006, 02:10 PM
Ah yes, the defense of the lowest common denominator. I'm sure you think the most passionate Latin American futbol fans are the ones peeing into a can and throwing the contents through the steel fence at rivals standing on the terrace in the next section over. I chalked it up to boorish behavior borne of third world sanitation facilities, but now I realize -- thanks to you -- that the Urinal is devoid of truly passionate fans because they only pee into the sinks.

:kukoo:

i'm not really sure how to respond to this...

first of all, the type of gross generalization you make about fans throwing urine at one another at soccer matches is the same type of erroneous generalization that people make about whitesox fans being uncontrolable drunkards who attack first-base coaches. you surely can't think that isolated incidents are representative of a fan base as a whole.

and no, clearly i don't think that pee-throwing, racist, or battery throwing fans are the most passionate, they're the stupidest– just like the ligues.

i speak from personal experience based on having attended multiple soccer matches, college basketball games, as well as whitesox games. the level of passion and comraderie between fellow fans between the first two and baseball isn't even comparable. though the slower pace of baseball (unless burls is pitching) does contribute to a more subdued fan atmosphere, i think it's unfortunate that stadium security sap the little sense of passion and rivalry that's left in baseball for the sake of creating a more child friendly atmosphere. even in the 90's when the family friendly theme started to take off the bleechers were a place you could at least heckle an outfielder. but now, you can't even do that.

the use of vulgar language or t-shirts that have explitives on them is one thing, but asking fans to quiet down? to stop yelling? come on.

you think that heckling an opponent or yelling at an ump is out-of-line? fine. but i think that the prudish attitudes that are dictating these family friendly changes are making the game experience less enjoyable.

but i guess my "boorish" behavior is a result of having been born in a third world country with inadequate sanitation facilities.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-23-2006, 02:40 PM
and no, clearly i don't think that pee-throwing, racist, or battery throwing fans are the most passionate, they're the stupidest– just like the ligues.

Ah, so you're willing to accept limits to behavior -- you just think the Cardinals' limits are unfair.

Here's the short answer to your problem: Tough ****. It's their ballpark. I applaud them. We accept too much boorish behavior -- notwithstanding your silly generalization about the passion of Latin American futbol fans.

credeistheman
04-23-2006, 03:59 PM
Ah, so you're willing to accept limits to behavior -- you just think the Cardinals' limits are unfair.

Here's the short answer to your problem: Tough ****. It's their ballpark. I applaud them. We accept too much boorish behavior -- notwithstanding your silly generalization about the passion of Latin American futbol fans.

there's an obvious difference between attacking a basecoach and heckling mags in right. i'm not sure how to respond if you're not willing to concede that point.

i just don't want to go to a ballgame and have to act like i'm in church.

by the way––juan is absolutley STROKING it. i think we can both agree that we'd be cheering raucously if we were there. :bandance: :bandance:

PaleHoseGeorge
04-23-2006, 04:04 PM
i just don't want to go to a ballgame and have to act like i'm in church.

I would love to know what church you ever attempted to attend wearing a Cubs Suck t-shirt. And I'm guessing you next went to a church message board and complained about the minister making you turn your shirt inside out, too?
:o:

You don't want to be treated like a boor at the ballgame? Stop acting like one.

bigsoxfan420
04-23-2006, 04:09 PM
SUCK, SUCK, SUCK, SUCK!!!

What is wrong with this word? I have never thought of it as a "bad" word. Is it not the job of PARENTS to make sure THEIR children don't say words (or do any other activity) that may not be appropriate (for that family). My parent's didn't really care if I said suck (now change that first letter...that's a painful story to tell) and I turned out okay.

Palehose13
04-23-2006, 04:13 PM
SUCK, SUCK, SUCK, SUCK!!!

What is wrong with this word? I have never thought of it as a "bad" word. Is it not the job of PARENTS to make sure THEIR children don't say words (or do any other activity) that may not be appropriate (for that family). My parent's didn't really care if I said suck (now change that first letter...that's a painful story to tell) and I turned out okay.

What do you expect from someone with 420 in their name? Class with a capital C. :rolleyes:

PaleHoseGeorge
04-23-2006, 04:14 PM
SUCK, SUCK, SUCK, SUCK!!!

It's not saying, "Suck." It's wearing "suck" where every single person over the age of 6 reads the word "suck" simply for having the misfortune of crossing the path of boors like the ones getting kicked out of Busch Stadium in St. Louis.

I believe we need less boorish behavior at Sox Park, too, but for now I'm glad to know at least one major league ballclub is treating these boorish louts in a manner others should follow.

PaulDrake
04-23-2006, 04:22 PM
The last time I heard or saw the word "sucks" and it didn't strike me as boring and banal, was when Raymond Babbit said "K Mart sucks".

PaleHoseGeorge
04-23-2006, 04:24 PM
The last time I heard or saw the word "sucks" and it didn't strike me as boring and banal, was when Raymond Babbit said "K Mart sucks".

I'm betting Raymond Babbit would get kicked out of Busch Stadium, too.

Good.

MrRoboto83
04-23-2006, 04:24 PM
I believe we need less boorish behavior at Sox Park, too, but for now I'm glad to know at least one major league ballclub is treating these boorish louts in a manner others should follow.

I don't understand why people can't just say "You stink Ump" instead of Suck. Suck has just been taken way out of content these days. I wish some people would work on keeping their beer in their cups and mouths and not splashing on me.

credeistheman
04-23-2006, 04:26 PM
I would love to know what church you ever attempted to attend wearing a Cubs Suck t-shirt. And I'm guessing you next went to a church message board and complained about the minister making you turn your shirt inside out, too?
:o:

You don't want to be treated like a boor at the ballgame? Stop acting like one.

PHG: That's exactly my point---I don't want to have to go to a ballgame and act like I do at my church.

What type of cheering/smack talking do you think is acceptable? And at what point do you think it crosses the line?

Palehose13
04-23-2006, 04:29 PM
PHG: That's exactly my point---I don't want to have to go to a ballgame and act like I do at my church.

What type of cheering/smack talking do you think is acceptable? And at what point do you think it crosses the line?

If you are a church going person, why would you act like an ******* in a different public forum?

MrRoboto83
04-23-2006, 04:35 PM
i just don't want to go to a ballgame and have to act like i'm in church.

by the way––juan is absolutley STROKING it. i think we can both agree that we'd be cheering raucously if we were there.

I know I wouldn't be cheering to that degree, do you know what raucous means? That is not how I act at the ballpark or in public.

Palehose13
04-23-2006, 04:41 PM
I know I wouldn't be cheering to that degree, do you know what raucous means? That is not how I act at the ballpark or in public.

But how about church? :wink:

MrRoboto83
04-23-2006, 04:44 PM
But how about church? :wink:

Probably depends what church you go to, some of those Baptist get out of control.:D:...can I get an Amen sister?

Baseball is a religion to many!

Palehose13
04-23-2006, 05:02 PM
Probably depends what church you go to, some of those Baptist get out of control.:D:...can I get an Amen sister?

Baseball is a religion to many!

I actually do belong to the Church of Baseball. Jesus Christ couldn't hit a curveball. :cool:

credeistheman
04-23-2006, 05:10 PM
If you are a church going person, why would you act like an ******* in a different public forum?

first of all, i don't happen to think cheering raucously for a player on my team makes me an "*******".

secondly, the reason i think it's acceptable to act like what you think is an "*******" at a ballgame is because it is a baseball game. i think it would be fair to assume that few people are as quiet and still outside of church as they are inside of church.

i can totally undestand wanting to sit back and catch a game in peace, but i don't think that's is contingent on prohibiting other fans from respectfully expressing dissapointment, happiness, distain, or hatred during the game. i doubt i'm the only person who feels that way.

Palehose13
04-23-2006, 05:17 PM
first of all, i don't happen to think cheering raucously for a player on my team makes me an "*******".

secondly, the reason i think it's acceptable to act like what you think is an "*******" at a ballgame is because it is a baseball game. i think it would be fair to assume that few people are as quiet and still outside of church as they are inside of church.

i can totally undestand wanting to sit back and catch a game in peace, but i don't think that's is contingent on prohibiting other fans from respectfully expressing dissapointment, happiness, distain, or hatred during the game.

When I go to a game, I clap and cheer as well as show disgust in a socially acceptable way. I am a huge fan and don't just sit on my hands when I make my 180 mile round trip to US Cellular field 30 times a year. Hey, I also have a few beers and have a good time. However, when I am there I don't want to some neanderthal with the mentality of a four year old (sorry to offend some four year olds) screaming in my ear. I guess some people never left the phallic stage of life and don't know how to express themselves any differently.

As far as the "suck" and "gay bar" shirts, go ahead an wear them...it just lets me know right away what kind of person I am dealing with and I thank that person for warning me before I waste energy attempting a conversation with said person.:cool:

*edit: A few other things I wanted to add after re-reading your post:
1. I find that the need to express hatred during a game is a little over the top. Either you really like to exaggerate your emotions or you have some anger issues.

2. The fact that it is accepted among people to act "one way" in church and then in a completely different manner outside of church is one reason for my contempt for religious organizations. I thought god was watching at all times. But hey, that is a discussion for another day and not on this message board.

MarySwiss
04-23-2006, 05:26 PM
first of all, i don't happen to think cheering raucously for a player on my team makes me an "*******".

secondly, the reason i think it's acceptable to act like what you think is an "*******" at a ballgame is because it is a baseball game. i think it would be fair to assume that few people are as quiet and still outside of church as they are inside of church.

i can totally undestand wanting to sit back and catch a game in peace, but i don't think that's is contingent on prohibiting other fans from respectfully expressing dissapointment, happiness, distain, or hatred during the game. i doubt i'm the only person who feels that way.

I think what many are saying is that there should be some middle ground. If you're at home, do what you want--whether that be dropping F bombs, kicking in the TV, or sitting quietly and watching the game. But when in a public venue, people need to be mindful of those around them. All I know is, if I were at a game with my two nephews and people started dropping F bombs, they would hear it for me, and I would do everything in my power to get their sorry asses launched. OTOH, if I were at a bar watching that same game, and people started dropping F bombs, I'd most likely just think to myself, "what *******s" and devote my attention to the game.

The key word, I think, in your post, is "respectfully." Unfortunately, that is subjective. I personally have no problem with the word "suck," but that doesn't mean that others who do are wrong.

RealMenWearBlack
04-23-2006, 05:27 PM
If you are a church going person, why would you act like an ******* in a different public forum?

How does wearing a shirt that says "suck" on it make him an *******?

credeistheman
04-23-2006, 05:30 PM
When I go to a game, I clap and cheer as well as show disgust in a socially acceptable way. I am a huge fan and don't just sit on my hands when I make my 180 mile round trip to US Cellular field 30 times a year. Hey, I also have a few beers and have a good time. However, when I am there I don't want to some neanderthal with the mentality of a four year old screaming in my ear. I guess some people never left the phallic stage of life and don't know how to express themselves any differently.

As far as the "suck" and "gay bar" shirts, go ahead an wear them...it just lets me know right away what kind of person I am dealing with and I thank that person for warning me before I waste energy attempting a conversation with said person.:cool:

i think maybe we're reading too far into each other's posts. i don't think anyone wants some drunk ******* screaming in their year. the impression that some of the earlier posts gave me–mainly that i should conduct myself the same way at a baseball game as i do at church– was that they think that cheering loudly or heckling the opposing team is out of line period.

i've never seen it done, but it would be kind of funny if the next time my priest read from the book of acts the church started chanting, "Paulie! Paulie! Paulie!".

Palehose13
04-23-2006, 05:35 PM
How does wearing a shirt that says "suck" on it make him an *******?

It is my opinion that people who spend money on shirts like that (and other disgusting ones that have been seen outside of the ballpark) don't have much class and are probably people that I wouldn't spend much time with on purpose.

This is my opinion and you may think that I am an ******* for having that opinion, but hey, opinions are like *******s...everyone has one. :cool:

Palehose13
04-23-2006, 05:37 PM
i think maybe we're reading too far into each other's posts. i don't think anyone wants some drunk ******* screaming in their year. the impression that some of the earlier posts gave me–mainly that i should conduct myself the same way at a baseball game as i do at church– was that they think that cheering loudly or heckling the opposing team is out of line period.

i've never seen it done, but it would be kind of funny if the next time my priest read from the book of acts the church started chanting, "Paulie! Paulie! Paulie!".

You used raucous on more than one occasion. I don't believe that participating in a "Paulie" chant would be considered raucous by societal standards. I'm just reading whatever descriptive words you are typing.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-23-2006, 05:37 PM
i think maybe we're reading too far into each other's posts. i don't think anyone wants some drunk ******* screaming in their year. the impression that some of the earlier posts gave me–mainly that i should conduct myself the same way at a baseball game as i do at church– was that they think that cheering loudly or heckling the opposing team is out of line period.

i've never seen it done, but it would be kind of funny if the next time my priest read from the book of acts the church started chanting, "Paulie! Paulie! Paulie!".

You have no clue. YOU were the one who compared not being able to wear a "suck" shirt at a ballgame with behavior akin to going to church. Having set up your own (ridiculous) strawman argument, you're knocking it over and think you've made a point? Truly clueless...

The management of the ballpark can decide WITHOUT YOUR INPUT what is acceptable behavior in the ballpark. Confusing that level of behavior with going to church is a mental problem only you have.

credeistheman
04-23-2006, 05:45 PM
I think what many are saying is that there should be some middle ground. If you're at home, do what you want--whether that be dropping F bombs, kicking in the TV, or sitting quietly and watching the game. But when in a public venue, people need to be mindful of those around them. All I know is, if I were at a game with my two nephews and people started dropping F bombs, they would hear it for me, and I would do everything in my power to get their sorry asses launched. OTOH, if I were at a bar watching that same game, and people started dropping F bombs, I'd most likely just think to myself, "what *******s" and devote my attention to the game.

The key word, I think, in your post, is "respectfully." Unfortunately, that is subjective. I personally have no problem with the word "suck," but that doesn't mean that others who do are wrong.

well said.

i thought that i made it clear that i don't condone vulgar language in one of my earlier posts– which is why i was surprised that people were still giving me a hard time.

also, for those interested, the cell is actually a publicly owned facility (http://www.isfauthority.com/managex/index.asp?x=142&y=142&articlesource=142). it's interesting that freedom of speech issues haven't yet arisen.

MISoxfan
04-23-2006, 05:46 PM
SUCK, SUCK, SUCK, SUCK!!!

What is wrong with this word? I have never thought of it as a "bad" word. Is it not the job of PARENTS to make sure THEIR children don't say words (or do any other activity) that may not be appropriate (for that family). My parent's didn't really care if I said suck (now change that first letter...that's a painful story to tell) and I turned out okay.

That's not the point of it at all. It isn't banned to protect the wearer from himself, it's banned to protect every firstgrader from reading it.

Palehose13
04-23-2006, 05:51 PM
well said.

i thought that i made it clear that i don't condone vulgar language in one of my earlier posts– which is why i was surprised that people were still giving me a hard time.

also, for those interested, the cell is actually a publicly owned facility (http://www.isfauthority.com/managex/index.asp?x=142&y=142&articlesource=142). it's interesting that freedom of speech issues haven't yet arisen.

The point is that some people may consider "suck" vulgar. Freedom of speech is all well and good for most people until they are offended. "Suck" doesn't offend you, so you think you should be free to express it. However, if I was promoting wearing something that was offensive to you...I'm not so sure you would come to bat for me.

For the record, I am not offended by "suck". I just think those shirts and lewd behavior is classless. Obviously, the Cardinals agree with me, but the White Sox do not.

This whole thing wouldn't be an issue if people weren't Flubsessed. The shirts wouldn't exist, but I guess some people enjoy rooting against a team instead of rooting for a team and the street vendors are making a killing because of it.

MrRoboto83
04-23-2006, 05:59 PM
You used raucous on more than one occasion. I don't believe that participating in a "Paulie" chant would be considered raucous by societal standards. I'm just reading whatever descriptive words you are typing.


I Agree. Raucous also means boisterously disorderly, I looked it up.

Johnny Mostil
04-23-2006, 06:04 PM
also, for those interested, the cell is actually a publicly owned facility (http://www.isfauthority.com/managex/index.asp?x=142&y=142&articlesource=142). it's interesting that freedom of speech issues haven't yet arisen.

I'm sure there are still some acceptable limits on speech in publicly owned facilities. An extreme and maybe contrived example, but I doubt I could sit in the gallery for a State of the Union address wearing a "[president/person opposing the president] Sucks" t-shirt . . .

PaleHoseGeorge
04-23-2006, 06:07 PM
also, for those interested, the cell is actually a publicly owned facility (http://www.isfauthority.com/managex/index.asp?x=142&y=142&articlesource=142). it's interesting that freedom of speech issues haven't yet arisen.

Okay, so besides confusing behavior that won't allow you to wear a "suck" shirt into a ballpark with behavior inside a church, you are now confusing the inside of a publicly-funded facility with a public street corner?

I'm just trying to establish the new (low) level of discussion we're apparently heading towards.

Palehose13
04-23-2006, 06:11 PM
Okay, so besides confusing behavior that won't allow you to wear a "suck" shirt into a ballpark with behavior inside a church, you are now confusing the inside of a publicly-funded facility with a public street corner?

I'm just trying to establish the new (low) level of discussion we're apparently heading towards.

I must admit that it is keep things interesting and work is going faster this afternoon. :D:

credeistheman
04-23-2006, 06:23 PM
PHG: no...i actually compared the ballpark behaviour that some of the posters here seem to believe is ideal to the manner in which most people conduct themselves in church.

there's an obvious difference between attacking a basecoach and heckling mags in right. i'm not sure how to respond if you're not willing to concede that point.

i just don't want to go to a ballgame and have to act like i'm in church.



also, according to the ifsa website, the ifsa is a "government unit" that owns and operates us cellular. i don't see anything that says it's a private facility. therefore, according to numerous scotus decisions, certain speech within the facility is protected by the first amendment---

The point is that some people may consider "suck" vulgar. Freedom of speech is all well and good for most people until they are offended. "Suck" doesn't offend you, so you think you should be free to express it. However, if I was promoting wearing something that was offensive to you...I'm not so sure you would come to bat for me.



Palehose: that's a solid point––but as long as it's protected i think you'd be surprised. also, maybe raucous was too strong of an adjective, but it is also an acceptable syn. for "noisy".

also, i don't understand why many of you guys are resorting to telling me that "i have no clue", that i have a "mental problem", that i'm "boorish", and that i'm an "*******". i didn't know that expressing my opinions in a respectful manner would draw such an onslaught.

Palehose13
04-23-2006, 06:28 PM
PHG: no...i actually compared the ballpark behaviour that some of the posters here seem to believe is ideal to the manner in which most people conduct themselves in church.



also, according to the ifsa website, the ifsa is a "government unit" that owns and operates us cellular. i don't see anything that says it's a private facility. therefore, according to numerous scotus decisions, certain speech within the facility is protected by the first amendment---



Palehose: that's a solid point––but as long as it's protected i think you'd be surprised. also, maybe raucous was too strong of an adjective, but it is also an acceptable syn. for "noisy".

also, i don't understand why many of you guys are resorting to telling me that "i have no clue", that i have a "mental problem", that i'm "boorish", and that i'm an "*******". i didn't know that expressing my opinions in a respectful manner would draw such an onslaught.

I imagine that if I was near someone at the game that was behaving the way I pictured after reading your posts, I know I would think "What an *******". So it's not that I think you are an ******* per se, just that the behavior I imagined after reading your posts made me think of an *******. Does that make sense? :?:

gobears1987
04-23-2006, 06:32 PM
A Cubs suck shirt is just dumb. If you want an anti-Cubs shirt, just pring one up that says 1908!!!. It's simple and it gets the point across.

credeistheman
04-23-2006, 06:35 PM
I imagine that if I was near someone at the game that was behaving the way I pictured after reading your posts, I know I would think "What an *******". So it's not that I think you are an ******* per se, just that the behavior I imagined after reading your posts made me think of an *******. Does that make sense? :?:

i can for sure see how it would be like interpruted that, especially because i was sticking up for the guy who wore the "cubs suck" shirt and because i said that i think that heckling the opposing team is acceptable.

i think we probably both fall somewhere in the middle-ground like MarySwiss suggested.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-23-2006, 06:35 PM
I knew I could count on you to make this discussion even more stupid...

PHG: no...i actually compared the ballpark behaviour that some of the posters here seem to believe is ideal to the manner in which most people conduct themselves in church.

Only people wearing "sucks" shirts are getting kicked out by the Cardinals. The only person confusing this with church is you. Others might be confusing speech with shirts, but nobody has suggested the Cardinals are kicking "sucks" speakers out.

Care to take another swing at this topic? You already have achieved the golden sombrero. Why quit now?



also, according to the ifsa website, the ifsa is a "government unit" that owns and operates us cellular. i don't see anything that says it's a private facility. therefore, according to numerous scotus decisions, certain speech within the facility is protected by the first amendment---

Why don't you try knocking on the gate of Sox Park and demand entrance as a tax-paying citizen of the United States of America.

Oh, this is too rich...
:roflmao:

Palehose: that's a solid point––but as long as it's protected i think you'd be surprised. also, maybe raucous was too strong of an adjective, but it is also an acceptable syn. for "noisy".

also, i don't understand why many of you guys are resorting to telling me that "i have no clue", that i have a "mental problem", that i'm "boorish", and that i'm an "*******". i didn't know that expressing my opinions in a respectful manner would draw such an onslaught.

Here's some friendly advice: try sticking to just ONE losing argumentative point. Everytime you reply, you're own words make you into an even bigger fool than the time before. Then you don't have to worry about being characterized as having a mental problem for confusing church behavior and ballpark behavior, or being boorish for behaving like a boor.

You might even find yourself getting respectful retorts, rather than the ones that embarrass you for having your own words used against you.

FoulTerritory
04-23-2006, 06:57 PM
I knew I could count on you to make this discussion even more stupid...



Only people wearing "sucks" shirts are getting kicked out by the Cardinals. The only person confusing this with church is you. Others might be confusing speech with shirts, but nobody has suggested the Cardinals are kicking "sucks" speakers out.

Care to take another swing at this topic? You already have achieved the golden sombrero. Why quit now?





Why don't you try knocking on the gate of Sox Park and demand entrance as a tax-paying citizen of the United States of America.

Oh, this is too rich...
:roflmao:



Here's some friendly advice: try sticking to just ONE losing argumentative point. Everytime you reply, you're own words make you into an even bigger fool than the time before. Then you don't have to worry about being characterized as having a mental problem for confusing church behavior and ballpark behavior, or being boorish for behaving like a boor.

You might even find yourself getting respectful retorts, rather than the ones that embarrass you for having your own words used against you.
Why all the insults? Credeistheman has been called a "fool" and "boorish" and "stupid" and "lewd" and I've been tabbed a "dullard" and an "ass" and a "half-wit" . . .

Can't we just debate the issue without resorting to personal insults and attacks?

credeistheman
04-23-2006, 07:00 PM
I knew I could count on you to make this discussion even more stupid...

Only people wearing "sucks" shirts are getting kicked out by the Cardinals. The only person confusing this with church is you. Others might be confusing speech with shirts, but nobody has suggested the Cardinals are kicking "sucks" speakers out.

Care to take another swing at this topic? You already have achieved the golden sombrero. Why quit now?

Why don't you try knocking on the gate of Sox Park and demand entrance as a tax-paying citizen of the United States of America.

Oh, this is too rich...
:roflmao:



Here's some friendly advice: try sticking to just ONE losing argumentative point. Everytime you reply, you're own words make you into an even bigger fool than the time before. Then you don't have to worry about being characterized as having a mental problem for confusing church behavior and ballpark behavior, or being boorish for behaving like a boor.

You might even find yourself getting respectful retorts, rather than the ones that embarrass you for having your own words used against you.

PHG: multiple decisions by scotus treat speech, various media, written materials, and even certain actions the same way– all of which are protected by the first amendment. if you're interested i can refer you to specific cases.

in terms of the first amendment not being aplicable at the cell because one has to pay to get in- there are a number of publicly owned and operated facilities that require payment and are also required to protect freedom of speech––public universities, public tranportation, etc. i haven't encountered a case in which a public entity in partnership with a private entity has been sued for violating free speech--it would be an interesting case.

also, i don't confuse ballpark behaviour with the way one should conduct oneself in church. it goes without saying.

i appreciate the advice, but the only quote of mine that you attempted to use against me, you took out of context. read my last post.

this thread has turned way off topic. in short– i don't think foulterritory should have been forced to remove his shirt, and i think that the family-friendly atmosphere at ballparks is going to far in some instances.

Palehose13
04-23-2006, 07:01 PM
Why all the insults? Credeistheman has been called a "fool" and "boorish" and "stupid" and "lewd" and I've been tabbed a "dullard" and an "ass" and a "half-wit" . . .

In some instances, the person is not called those things, but the behavior and a shirt has been.

Can't we just debate the issue without resorting to personal insults and attacks?

But isn't the nature of the issue an insult and attack?

Palehose13
04-23-2006, 07:05 PM
this thread has turned way off topic. in short– i don't think foulterritory should have been forced to remove his shirt, and i think that the family-friendly atmosphere at ballparks is going to far in some instances.

I don't think this has to be labeled as a "family-friendly" issue. I have no children and could care less about kids at the ballpark. I think it is a respect for ones self issue.

Everyone has the right to purchase whatever T-shirt they desire. However, business have the right to establish a dress code. Now if we could just get businesses to make people showing too much skin when they have way too much to show to begin with (male and female) to cover up, I would be a very happy person.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-23-2006, 07:07 PM
Why all the insults? Credeistheman has been called a "fool" and "boorish" and "stupid" and "lewd" and I've been tabbed a "dullard" and an "ass" and a "half-wit" . . .

Can't we just debate the issue without resorting to personal insults and attacks?

Here's where you and CISM have problems.

Those who wear Cubs suck t-shirts THINK they're making a statement of one kind. In fact, they're making another kind of statement, one that isn't intended in the least. Don't believe me? Re-read the thread.

Those who behave in a boorish manner are boors.

Those who behave in a foolish fashion are fools.

Those who make dull statements are dullards.

I'm not sure where anyone used the words ass and half-wit, but go back and re-read this thread where boorish, foolish and dull assertions were attached to a comment and you'll find every single one of them was made with foundation... based on the very boorish, foolish, and dull statements of the receiving party.

You don't think your'e behaving boorishly, foolishly, or in a dullard fashion? Think again.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-23-2006, 07:10 PM
this thread has turned way off topic. in short– i don't think foulterritory should have been forced to remove his shirt, and i think that the family-friendly atmosphere at ballparks is going to far in some instances.

And the St. Louis Cardinals disagree with you 100 percent. So do I and others here, too. We've asserted our opinion, and the Cardinals have implemented their policy. Good for them. You have no beef except to whine about it.

RealMenWearBlack
04-23-2006, 07:14 PM
It is my opinion that people who spend money on shirts like that (and other disgusting ones that have been seen outside of the ballpark) don't have much class and are probably people that I wouldn't spend much time with on purpose.

This is my opinion and you may think that I am an ******* for having that opinion, but hey, opinions are like *******s...everyone has one. :cool:

I don't think you're an ******* for having your opinion, but I just don't see the harm done when a Sox fan where's a Cubs Suck shirt to a Cards/Cubs game. I think it's kind of stupid to where a Cubs Suck shirt to a Sox game, but I'm not really offended and it's not something I'd get worked up about.

credeistheman
04-23-2006, 07:18 PM
I don't think this has to be labeled as a "family-friendly" issue. I have no children and could care less about kids at the ballpark. I think it is a respect for ones self issue.

Everyone has the right to purchase whatever T-shirt they desire. However, business have the right to establish a dress code. Now if we could just get businesses to make people showing too much skin when they have way too much to show to begin with (male and female) to cover up, I would be a very happy person.

i would probably agree with your opinion on the self-respect –– but i see this issue more as parks trying to appeal to families at the expense of what i believe is a real ballpark atmosphere.

can someone please take this thread behind the shed and put it out of its missery?

Palehose13
04-23-2006, 07:22 PM
I don't think you're an ******* for having your opinion, but I just don't see the harm done when a Sox fan where's a Cubs Suck shirt to a Cards/Cubs game. I think it's kind of stupid to where a Cubs Suck shirt to a Sox game, but I'm not really offended and it's not something I'd get worked up about.

I'm not worked up, just adding my thoughts to the conversation. If I got worked up when I thought that someone was an *******, I would never calm down. :wink:

Brian26
04-23-2006, 07:23 PM
this thread has turned way off topic. in short– i don't think foulterritory should have been forced to remove his shirt, and i think that the family-friendly atmosphere at ballparks is going to far in some instances.

Just my two cents- I'm 180 degrees from you on this topic. I'd like to see MLB crack down and do MORE to clean the atmosphere up. I question whether you've actually been to a game lately. I've seen things firsthand that make me shake my head. Kudos to the Cardinals organization for being proactive.

Brian26
04-23-2006, 07:29 PM
i would probably agree with your opinion on the self-respect –– but i see this issue more as parks trying to appeal to families at the expense of what i believe is a real ballpark atmosphere.

So the thought of a father taking his son and/or daughter to a game and trying to have an enjoyable time isn't a real ballpark experience or isn't part of a real ballpark atmosphere? What an ignorant and selfish comment.

RealMenWearBlack
04-23-2006, 07:29 PM
I forgot to mention in my earlier post about the crudest shirt I have ever seen at a Sox game. As I was leaving the game today I saw this guy with a shirt with the 1983 logo, but it said "****THECUBS" instead of "SOX." I think everyone on these boards would agree that that's crossing the line.

Palehose13
04-23-2006, 07:31 PM
I forgot to mention in my earlier post about the crudest shirt I have ever seen at a Sox game. As I was leaving the game today I saw this guy with a shirt with the 1983 logo, but it said "****THECUBS" instead of "SOX." I think everyone on these boards would agree that that's crossing the line.

Truly tasteless. Nice to see that you even have limits. :redneck

MarySwiss
04-23-2006, 07:43 PM
i would probably agree with your opinion on the self-respect –– but i see this issue more as parks trying to appeal to families at the expense of what i believe is a real ballpark atmosphere.

can someone please take this thread behind the shed and put it out of its missery?

I'm sorry, but I don't see these two choices as mutually exclusive. Guess it depends on the definition of "real ballpark atmosphere." Once again, this is subjective, as you yourself stated in your introductory phrase, "what I believe."

I am really not trying to nitpick, but I think parks should try to appeal to families. If you read through the WSI "Dedicated To..." book, you will see that many--maybe even most--Sox fans are the way they are due to exposure to the Sox as kids. When I was a kid, that meant cheering for the Sox, booing the ""enemy" team, and occasionallly shouting out "kill the umpire." It did not mean throwing balls back, harassing the other team's fans, or screaming obscenities while oblivious to any kids that might be in the vicinity.

I remember being at some Bulls-Pistons games back in the 90s and hearing the "Laimbeer Sucks" chant. While by no means a fan of Bill Laimbeer, I thought this went over the top at a public venue.

Johnny Mostil
04-23-2006, 07:54 PM
I remember being at some Bulls-Pistons games back in the 90s and hearing the "Laimbeer Sucks" chant. While by no means a fan of Bill Laimbeer, I thought this went over the top at a public venue.

Every time I hear something like that, or see a shirt like that, part of me thinks, "Um, OK, and just how would you know?"

santo=dorf
04-23-2006, 07:58 PM
:threadsucks
Anybody have a shirt of this? :D:

...and for some of you in this thread:
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=4282&d=1145836726

PaulDrake
04-23-2006, 08:00 PM
It'll read like another OF complaining but back in the late 50s it was a real baseball atmosphere I was introduced to at old Comiskey Park. Lots of cigar and cigarette smoke, plenty of beer consumed, passionate rooting for the Sox and jeering of the opposition. Comiskey was a "real" place back then, and as a kid I always looked forward to this adult experience. I can never remember one F bomb and the word "sucks" meant something a baby did on its bottle. Long before he died in 1997 Mike Royko wrote about an epidemic of what he called "jerkism" at public events and social affairs. Things have gotten appreciably worse. I guess I'll be accused of more name calling but feeling the need to wear (fill in the blanks) sucks anywhere in public is boorish among other things. Yes ball parks and ball games could be raucous affairs back in the Leave it to Beaver era, but you wouldn't hesitate to take your kids to a Major League baseball game. I applaud the Cardinals attempting to bring a little civility back to the ball park. You can still cheer, boo, eat and drink heartily and enjoy the games with your friends and family, maybe even share some happiness with total strangers. If that's not enough for you well then I just think that sucks.

Palehose13
04-23-2006, 08:10 PM
It'll read like another OF complaining but back in the late 50s it was a real baseball atmosphere I was introduced to at old Comiskey Park. Lots of cigar and cigarette smoke, plenty of beer consumed, passionate rooting for the Sox and jeering of the opposition. Comiskey was a "real" place back then, and as a kid I always looked forward to this adult experience. I can never remember one F bomb and the word "sucks" meant something a baby did on its bottle. Long before he died in 1997 Mike Royko wrote about an epidemic of what he called "jerkism" at public events and social affairs. Things have gotten appreciably worse. I guess I'll be accused of more name calling but feeling the need to wear (fill in the blanks) sucks anywhere in public is boorish among other things. Yes ball parks and ball games could be raucous affairs back in the Leave it to Beaver era, but you wouldn't hesitate to take your kids to a Major League baseball game. I applaud the Cardinals attempting to bring a little civility back to the ball park. You can still cheer, boo, eat and drink heartily and enjoy the games with your friends and family, maybe even share some happiness with total strangers. If that's not enough for you well then I just think that sucks.

Awwwww, keep it to yourself you OF! :wink:

TornLabrum
04-23-2006, 08:25 PM
I don't think you're an ******* for having your opinion, but I just don't see the harm done when a Sox fan where's a Cubs Suck shirt to a Cards/Cubs game. I think it's kind of stupid to where a Cubs Suck shirt to a Sox game, but I'm not really offended and it's not something I'd get worked up about.
You may not see the harm, but the Cardinals do, and that, after all, is the point. When you enter their ballpark, that's all that matters.

BTW, for those who think that the use of **** and **** at The Cell is a free speech issue, read up on "disorderly conduct."

soxwon
04-23-2006, 10:16 PM
Um, am I mistaken on the etymology here? Regardless, if "Cardinals Suck" wouldn't be acceptable (and I don't think it should be in St. Louis or elsewhere), why would "Cubs Suck"?

I hate sometimes having to walk with my kids by vendors outside the Cel selling "Cubs Suck" t-shirts (or worse), but maybe that's just me.


do you find
"WRIGLEY FIELD_THEWORLDS LARGEST GAY BAR" Unnaceptable too?
ive seen those tshirts too

Palehose13
04-23-2006, 10:18 PM
do you find
"WRIGLEY FIELD_THEWORLDS LARGEST GAY BAR" Unnaceptable too?
ive seen those tshirts too

Absolutely. It is offensive to the many fine gay bars in Chicago. I don't go to Wrigley field when I want to go to a bar in Chicago. :cool:

MrRoboto83
04-23-2006, 10:25 PM
A Cubs suck shirt is just dumb. If you want an anti-Cubs shirt, just pring one up that says 1908!!!. It's simple and it gets the point across.

I agree with the Cub Suck shirt. Cub fans would embrace a shirt that says 1908 on it, just like they embrace 1969 hats I see all the time, why would anyone want to remember 1969 other than Met fans?

soxwon
04-23-2006, 10:27 PM
Absolutely. It is offensive to the many fine gay bars in Chicago. I don't go to Wrigley field when I want to go to a bar in Chicago. :cool:

i may despise the cubs, but i wouln't wear that tshirt.

Chisox003
04-23-2006, 10:32 PM
BTW, for those who think that the use of **** and **** at The Cell is a free speech issue, read up on "disorderly conduct."
Ya seriously.

L-O-S-E and C-U-B-S goes together fine at Wrigley, but using either one of those words at our place is completely unnecessary.

TL was nice enough to * them, but that doesn't get the point across. Just don't say em, ya hearrr?

:wink:

RealMenWearBlack
04-23-2006, 10:56 PM
I think a shirt that would be much funnier than a Cubs Suck shirt would be a shirt that looks like this:
http://ronveenstra.com/images/pictures/cubs_game/l_flag.jpg

Daver
04-23-2006, 11:01 PM
On that note, this thread is closed.