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WhiteSoxFan84
04-22-2006, 04:47 PM
I've been wanting to do a POTW on here for a while but never got to it. I think this will be a fun addition to the website to get people involved in something and keep it consistent.

The first ever POTW will be "Which Baseball Record is the Most Impressive?". I'm keeping this to career and single season records, NOT STREAKS! Next week we will do "Most Impressive Streaks in Baseball". The options for this week are...

- Henry Aaron's 755 Career HRs
- Cy Young's 511 Career Wins
- Pete Rose's 4,256 Career Hits
- Ricky Henderson's 1,270 Career Stolen Bases
- Barry Bonds' 73 HRs in a Single Season
- Nolan Ryan's 7 Career No-Hitters
- Other (Please Be Specific - NO STREAKS!)

TornLabrum
04-22-2006, 04:51 PM
Not a current record, but a long-standing previous record: Babe Ruth's 714 home runs, considering he pitched the first few years of his career as a pitcher.

getonbckthr
04-22-2006, 04:51 PM
Cal Ripken hands down. like 20 years without missing game. Means didnt miss cause slumping, injury, sickness or exhaustion. Today the average is like what 155/162, he played all 162 every year. INCREDIBLE!

WhiteSoxFan84
04-22-2006, 04:55 PM
Cal Ripken hands down. like 20 years without missing game. Means didnt miss cause slumping, injury, sickness or exhaustion. Today the average is like what 155/162, he played all 162 every year. INCREDIBLE!

I said no streaks, just single and career records. Streaks is next week! :D:

getonbckthr
04-22-2006, 05:00 PM
I said no streaks, just single and career records. Streaks is next week! :D:
I missed streaks I saw Career and no Cal and skipped every other word in your post.

buehrle4cy05
04-22-2006, 05:09 PM
Throwing a no-hitter is something that hardly ever happens. Throw two, and you're a great pitcher (Hideo Nomo excluded). But seven? That's out of this world.

SouthSide_HitMen
04-22-2006, 05:31 PM
Obviously Cy Young's is the only record which is impossible to break among the choices but that has more to do with the circumstances at the time and level of play during his era (not to take anything away from him but even though he exceeds all other pitchers by close to 100 wins (511 vs. Walter Johnson's 417) several pitchers are considered better than Cy Young regardless of the end career count and if they played "back in the day" they may have amassed 600 + wins.

Rickey Henderson and Nolan Ryan have had great careers and are among the best players ever. Barry Bonds should not be voted for IMHO nor is his record likely to stand.

To me it came down to Hank Aaron vs. Pete Rose. I voted for Rose for a few reasons - one is I was old enough to watch him play a significant number of years (though I did see Aaron's record breaking HR) and the fact that he achieved his mark through sheer determination as he did not have the physical advantages of an Aaron, Ryan or Rickey.

I think another record (besides Cy Young's) which will never be broken (and was also a product of the times) is the career mark held by former White Sox pitcher Ed Walsh for ERA - 1.816 (over close to 3,000 innings).

voodoochile
04-22-2006, 05:51 PM
I voted for Cy Young. It will NEVER be broken. All the others will be.

SouthSide_HitMen
04-22-2006, 05:57 PM
I voted for Cy Young. It will NEVER be broken. All the others will be.

I agree Cy's record will never be broken but I find it highly unlikely Rickey Henderson's SB mark (it would take 70 SBs for over 18 seasons to top) or Pete Rose's (over twenty one 200 hit seasons) will be broken either.

voodoochile
04-22-2006, 06:02 PM
I agree Cy's record will never be broken but I find it highly unlikely Rickey Henderson's SB mark (it would take 70 SBs for over 18 seasons to top) or Pete Rose's (over twenty one 200 hit seasons) will be broken either.

Players are playing longer and Catching is becoming a more offensive position. With the decline of the steroid era, the SB will becom a bigger weaon. No guarantees, what Ricky did is amazing.

Rose will go down eventually, because eventually someone will get close enough to want to hold on long enough to break it.

A guy like Pujols could already be on the way to do it.

Lip Man 1
04-22-2006, 09:36 PM
Joe DiMaggio's 56 game hitting streak.

Lip

PaleHoseGeorge
04-22-2006, 09:40 PM
No doubt in my mind. It's Other:

Roger Maris hitting 61 home runs. Clean.

It is a record that has never been given proper respect, starting with that idiot Ford Frick, and yet it still hasn't been broken and has lasted longer than the immortal 60 of RuthsRecord.

viagracat
04-22-2006, 09:53 PM
I think Di Maggio's 56 game hitting streak in 1941 will stand, if not forever, for a very long time.

Cy Young's 511 wins will never be broken either, but with five-man rotations, pitch count limits and bullpens by committee, the game is vastly different now. Young would have not won anywhere near 511 games had he started his career in 1980.

TornLabrum
04-22-2006, 10:01 PM
Um...guys, these were CAREER feats.

voodoochile
04-22-2006, 10:09 PM
I think Di Maggio's 56 game hitting streak in 1941 will stand, if not forever, for a very long time.

Cy Young's 511 wins will never be broken either, but with five-man rotations, pitch count limits and bullpens by committee, the game is vastly different now. Young would have not won anywhere near 511 games had he started his career in 1980.

Yep and 99% of the pitchers in the HOF would have had their arm fall off somewhere around win 300 if they had tried to match the number of starts Cy had. It's a two way street...

Johnny Mostil
04-22-2006, 10:20 PM
I love Cy's plaque at the HoF, noting he was the only pitcher to win 500 games in the "first" century of professional baseball. Um, yes, he was. I'm also guessing he'll be the only pitcher to win 500 games that is not elected to the HoF ASAP . . .

Right or wrong, what makes a record impressive to me is by how much it previously obliterated the previous record or surpasses the second-place record. So I voted for Cy's 511 wins, though I could see a case being made for Nolan's seven no-hitters (and 19 one-hitters, as I recall?) . . .

PaleHoseGeorge
04-22-2006, 10:35 PM
The poll asks to vote for most impressive baseball record. I don't find much impressive about career feats besides the luck of longevity.

If RuthsRecord is supposedly the greatest sports record ever, then Maris's looks even more impressive post-steroids era.

Johnny Mostil
04-22-2006, 10:59 PM
Another possibility for other, though I may be stretching things too much here: Charley Radbourn's 1884 season, in which he won (depending on the source) 59 or 60 games. Yeah, it was a different era with different rules, etc., but that's still one record I doubt will ever be broken . . .

voodoochile
04-22-2006, 11:01 PM
The poll asks to vote for most impressive baseball record. I don't find much impressive about career feats besides the luck of longevity.

If RuthsRecord is supposedly the greatest sports record ever, then Maris's looks even more impressive post-steroids era.

Well, the Bonds record is in the list, so I don't understand why someone couldn't vote for a different era's record, but of course they aren't officially records anymore... sigh...

Fuller_Schettman
04-22-2006, 11:24 PM
I don't get all of the love for Cy Young. Losing-est pitcher in baseball history. Amassed the bulk of his 511 wins in the dead-ball era. Think he had a fastball in the 90's? Think he'd win 20 in a season today? What kind of secrets were in his bag of tricks? It is just SO irrelevant to the game as we know it.

Sorry Cy, no love from me...

Viva Medias B's
04-22-2006, 11:32 PM
Joe DiMaggio's 56 game hitting streak.

Lip


I'm surprised it wasn't included in the poll.
I'm surprised it took the 11th post of the thread to mention it.Um...guys, these were CAREER feats.

EDIT: Oops. My bad.

PKalltheway
04-23-2006, 12:23 AM
I still have to go with Cy Young's 511 career wins. Even though it was in the "dead-ball" era, that's just too many wins to ignore. If you win 20 games for 25 years, you would still be 11 wins short of his record.:o: His name is used in one of the most prestigious awards in baseball, the Cy Young Award.

Norberto7
04-23-2006, 12:51 AM
I'd say that it's Ruth's 1920 home run record (at the time) of 54, breaking his record of 29 set in 1919. Not so much the number itself (Brady Anderson...), but the relativity of it to the rest of the league. He outhomered not just every other player, but every other team, except for one. He increased the record by 86% in one year, all while batting .376.

To put in perspective how huge a breakout that was, Maris would have had to hit 112 homers when he broke Ruth's 60 to make an equivalent jump. :o:

Layla
04-23-2006, 08:09 AM
I went with other, choosing Ted Williams .406 batting average.

That happened in the 50's, and a few have come close but no cigar.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-23-2006, 08:14 AM
Well, the Bonds record is in the list, so I don't understand why someone couldn't vote for a different era's record, but of course they aren't officially records anymore... sigh...

Well, that's sort of my point. I'm far less impressed with Barroid's 73 than Maris's 61. Hell, if MLB made steroids within the rules to use, I have little doubt somebody would jack over 100 in my lifetime.

All those homerun records from 1994 till 2003 are a sham. And the greatness of Maris's 61 continues on...

MrRoboto83
04-23-2006, 08:31 AM
Nolan Ryan's strike out record will stand perhaps forever. I don't think any power pitcher could ever last as long as Ryan in the game today.

Railsplitter
04-23-2006, 09:34 AM
Cy Young's 511 wins. He pitched 25 years and averaged over twenty win per season

MrRoboto83
04-23-2006, 09:49 AM
Cy Young's 511 wins. He pitched 25 years and averaged over twenty win per season

He also has 316 losses, is that the most by anyone also??

Fuller_Schettman
04-23-2006, 10:09 AM
Well, that's sort of my point. I'm far less impressed with Barroid's 73 than Maris's 61. Hell, if MLB made steroids within the rules to use, I have little doubt somebody would jack over 100 in my lifetime.

All those homerun records from 1994 till 2003 are a sham. And the greatness of Maris's 61 continues on...
And oddly enough, all of those sham HR records belong to the NL. Maris is still the all-time AL single-season HR leader.

But maybe Thome will have something to say about that in September. Can you imagine, a CLEAN record chase?!?

nedlug
04-23-2006, 10:16 AM
56 games (with another 61-gamer in the minors). 'Nuff said.

EDIT : I'm an idiot and didn't read the whole thing - sorry. Can I take back my vote on here? If I can't, I'll just have to find another career/single season record.

fquaye149
04-23-2006, 11:16 AM
Um...how about Ty Cobb's career .366 BA. I'm more impressed by that than anything else on this list because not only is it an accrued statistic, it also shows how consistently excellent he was throughout a TWENTY FOUR YEAR CAREER. For instance, not to take anything away from the Hammer, but while his HR record is phenomenal, it's one of those records where a lot of the #'s were piled up in unremarkable seasons near the end of his career. Nolan Ryan's no-hitter record represent flares of brilliance mostly early in his (admittedly phenomenal [though no cy young awards]) career. Cy Young's win total has been pitted against his loss total, and his multitudinous starts. Only Cobb's is a feat that takes his entire career into consideration and punishes mediocre seasons as much as rewards great seasons.

For that reason, I have to cast my vote for Cobb even though he was inexplicably left off the poll.

johnr1note
04-23-2006, 12:48 PM
I went with other, choosing Ted Williams .406 batting average.

That happened in the 50's, and a few have come close but no cigar.

Sorry, Ted hit .406 in 1941, the same year Dimaggio hit in 56 straight. Joe got the MVP.

Here's a single season mark that I don't see falling my lifetime ... most triples in a season. Chief Wilson hit 36 triples in 1912. The most in the last 20 years was Lance Johnson's 21 in 1996. Whose gonna break that record?

Most triples in a carrer is another mark that will never fall -- Sam Crawford had 309 triples in his career. There isn't an active player with more than a hundred except for Steve Finley, and he's at the end of his useful playing life.

I also think career and single season RBI marks will be tough to beat. Hack Wilson had 191 in 1930. Even in the juiced up era, the most we've gotten is 165, from Manny. And the career mark is Aaron's 2297. No one currently playing has a chance of putting up those kind of numbers before he retires, not even the great Barry Bonds. The only active player who even has a prayer is A-Rod, as is young enough to have enough playing time to put up the 1200 or so RBI he'll need to break the record. But if he plays till he's 40, he'll have to average 110 RBI per year. Not impossible, but a tall order as he ages.

Johnny Mostil
04-23-2006, 03:05 PM
Sorry, Ted hit .406 in 1941, the same year Dimaggio hit in 56 straight. Joe got the MVP.


Not only that, but Williams's average that year isn't even the single-season record--it's the 19th best (cf. http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/BA_season.shtml).

Nevertheless, there is something impressive about it. It is, of course, the last time anybody hit .400. In fact, it's the only time since 1930 that anybody even hit .390. Did something change in the game since 1941 so that "nobody" will hit .400 again? Or did something change in the 1930s so that only somebody like Williams could ever hit .400 again?

MrRoboto83
04-23-2006, 03:11 PM
Not only that, but Williams's average that year isn't even the single-season record--it's the 19th best (cf. http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/BA_season.shtml).

Nevertheless, there is something impressive about it. It is, of course, the last time anybody hit .400. In fact, it's the only time since 1930 that anybody even hit .390. Did something change in the game since 1941 so that "nobody" will hit .400 again? Or did something change in the 1930s so that only somebody like Williams could ever hit .400 again?

Tony Gwynn was hitting .393 in 1994 when the players went on strike. Ichrio I always thought could give it a ride at some point. George Brett hit .390 in 1980, but I believe he was injured for part of the season.

Johnny Mostil
04-23-2006, 04:21 PM
Tony Gwynn was hitting .393 in 1994 when the players went on strike. Ichrio I always thought could give it a ride at some point. George Brett hit .390 in 1980, but I believe he was injured for part of the season.

You're right about Gwynn, and I should have remembered that. I disagree on Brett, however, because for a plateau like .390 (or .400) I don't round up (and Brett's precise average was 0.389755). Maybe I should round up . . .

nedlug
04-23-2006, 04:35 PM
I don't think you guys are giving enough dap for Rickey's record. he has 1406 (according to MLB.com) and the next guy (Brock) is at 938, 468 SBs behind him! He's about 50% better than anyone else in history!

That record is the greatest, I think, because the players today steal bases about the same as they always have. The 511 wins will probably never be broken the way that pitchers are used nowadays, so Cy's record is more a function of him pitching nearly every day (someone mentioned he also have 300+ losses..., not an unbelievable W%). Rickey was an absolute unstoppable force on the basepaths, and probably still could get 20-25 SBs at 40 or 50something if given some ABs.

Also, he has only been caught stealing 335 times, as opposed to Brock's 307. When he attempted, he had a very good success rate (80.8%).

Daver
04-23-2006, 04:41 PM
I don't think you guys are giving enough dap for Rickey's record. he has 1406 and the next guy (Brock) is at 938, 468 SBs behind him! He's about 50% better than anyone else in history!

That record is the greatest, I think, because the players today steal bases about the same as they always have. The 511 wins will probably never be broken the way that pitchers are used nowadays, so Cy's record is more a function of him pitching nearly every day (someone mentioned he also have 300+ losses..., not an unbelievable W%). Rickey was an absolute unstoppable force on the basepaths, and probably still could get 20-25 SBs at 40 or 50something if given some ABs.

That is a false statement, players today do not even come close to the steal attempts from the 30's,40's, and 50's, back then every player in the lineup was a threat to steal, not just a select few that a modern day lineup has. If Ty Cobb played in this era he would have a steal every time he got on base.

Layla
04-23-2006, 08:09 PM
Not only that, but Williams's average that year isn't even the single-season record--it's the 19th best (cf. http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/BA_season.shtml).

Nevertheless, there is something impressive about it. It is, of course, the last time anybody hit .400. In fact, it's the only time since 1930 that anybody even hit .390. Did something change in the game since 1941 so that "nobody" will hit .400 again? Or did something change in the 1930s so that only somebody like Williams could ever hit .400 again?

I admit I thought it was the 50's so I do stand corrected.

Ted Williams, it should also be noted, lost some time because he served in the military.

WhiteSoxFan84
04-23-2006, 09:00 PM
My vote went to Ryan's 7 career no-hitters.

I had a tough time choosing between that and Young's 511 wins. If anyone were to match that feat, they would need to average 18 wins a year for 28+ seasons!! If a pitcher averaged an unheard of 25 wins a season, it would still take them 20+ seasons!!

I think I chose the wrong one... :?:

ShoelessJoeS
04-23-2006, 10:55 PM
Ruth's 714 homers in the dead-ball era is UNBELIEVABLE.

TornLabrum
04-23-2006, 10:56 PM
Ruth's 714 homers in the dead-ball era is UNBELIEVABLE.

That's because it wasn't in the dead ball era.

ShoelessJoeS
04-23-2006, 11:04 PM
That's because it wasn't in the dead ball era.
:redface: I said it was unbelievable didn't I?

Garland_IS_God
04-24-2006, 09:50 AM
Joe DiMaggio's 56 game hitting streak.

Lip

Ditto

nedlug
04-24-2006, 10:21 AM
That is a false statement, players today do not even come close to the steal attempts from the 30's,40's, and 50's, back then every player in the lineup was a threat to steal, not just a select few that a modern day lineup has. If Ty Cobb played in this era he would have a steal every time he got on base.

OK, I'll take the :redface: on this one - very sorry. Still, maybe players don't steal as much as they used to, but that doesn't make the record any less impressive.

If they were always a threat to steal, would that mean that catchers threw harder to second long ago? Just because Ty Cobb stole more games when he played, that doesn't mean that he would steal a whole lot more in games played today. Pitchers have invented the stretch, the slide step, and don't wind up when a guy's on 3rd anymore - a big reason why Cobb stole home so many times.

While I stand corrected about the stealing rate being different, I also think it's a tad foolish to say that every player was a threat to steal. I'd be willing to bet that the ratio of 'fast' to 'slow' players hasn't really changed that much since the 30s-50s. Players in this day and age just might not steal as much, but that doesn't mean that they aren't a 'threat.' Maybe the Moneyball teams don't allow many players to steal, but you probably can find 5-6 guys in most every lineup that can steal you a base if the time is right.

My vote would still be for Rickey's SB record as that is the most impressive and dominant over everyone else, even the players who had way more steal attempts in bygone eras.

VenturaSoxFan23
04-24-2006, 12:57 PM
When a player gets 10 triples in a season these days, he's deemed a legend in the making. Get 309 triples in a career...that's insane.

The triple is the most exciting hit in baseball. Triples don't get enough respect.

Sam Crawford's 309...best record ever. Nobody will ever come close.

viagracat
04-24-2006, 01:07 PM
When a player gets 10 triples in a season these days, he's deemed a legend in the making. Get 309 triples in a career...that's insane.

The triple is the most exciting hit in baseball. Triples don't get enough respect.

Sam Crawford's 309...best record ever. Nobody will ever come close.

Thank you. Couldn't agree more. I luv triples. It used to amuse me that the line from the song they used to play before Cub games on the radio said "It's a beautiful day for a home run, but even a triple's OK" (guess they played down to Cub fan's ideas of exciting baseball :D: ). Only hit more exciting than a triple is an inside-the-park homer, but you don't see those to often, and those that do happen usually involve misplays. Long live the triple!

RKMeibalane
04-24-2006, 02:02 PM
:hitless

"My fielding percentage record that will stand forever. I am the greatest!"

eastchicagosoxfan
04-24-2006, 08:29 PM
That is a false statement, players today do not even come close to the steal attempts from the 30's,40's, and 50's, back then every player in the lineup was a threat to steal, not just a select few that a modern day lineup has. If Ty Cobb played in this era he would have a steal every time he got on base.
Stealing bases in the 1930's through the 50's was a lost art. Jackie Robison stole 37 bases in 1949. That was the most by any National League player between 1930-55, and the introduction of the Willie Mays era. In the AL in that era, George Case was the dominant base stealer, with 61 in 1943 and Ben Chapman also stole 61 in 1931. Other than those two players, the AL played for the long ball. It wasn't until 1962, and Maury Wills, that the stolen base came back into vogue.

As far records go, Ruth hit 714 homeruns in 8398 at bats. No clean player is even close Bonds has 9100 at bats, but he's a cheat and doesn't count in my book ). I also like to point out Ty Cobb's 1927 season when he was 40, and certainly not juiced. His .357 average was good for 5th in the AL, he had 175 hits, 32 two-baggers, 93 RBI's, scored 104 runs, had 22 stolen bases, and only struck out a dozen times. That 1927 Philadelphia A's team also could put seven Hall of Famers on the field: Cobb, Tris Speaker, Eddie Collins ( although all three were at the ends of their careers ) Jimmy Foxx, Mickey Cochrane, Al Simmons, and Lefty Grove. In addition they were managed by Connie Mack, also a Hall of Famer. I imagine that seven players on the field detined for Cooperstown is a record that won't be broken.

Daver
04-24-2006, 08:54 PM
Stealing bases in the 1930's through the 50's was a lost art. Jackie Robison stole 37 bases in 1949. That was the most by any National League player between 1930-55, and the introduction of the Willie Mays era. In the AL in that era, George Case was the dominant base stealer, with 61 in 1943 and Ben Chapman also stole 61 in 1931. Other than those two players, the AL played for the long ball. It wasn't until 1962, and Maury Wills, that the stolen base came back into vogue.

As far records go, Ruth hit 714 homeruns in 8398 at bats. No clean player is even close Bonds has 9100 at bats, but he's a cheat and doesn't count in my book ). I also like to point out Ty Cobb's 1927 season when he was 40, and certainly not juiced. His .357 average was good for 5th in the AL, he had 175 hits, 32 two-baggers, 93 RBI's, scored 104 runs, had 22 stolen bases, and only struck out a dozen times. That 1927 Philadelphia A's team also could put seven Hall of Famers on the field: Cobb, Tris Speaker, Eddie Collins ( although all three were at the ends of their careers ) Jimmy Foxx, Mickey Cochrane, Al Simmons, and Lefty Grove. In addition they were managed by Connie Mack, also a Hall of Famer. I imagine that seven players on the field detined for Cooperstown is a record that won't be broken.

Don't check the steals, check the attempts. Catchers today aren't what they were either.

eastchicagosoxfan
04-25-2006, 07:51 AM
Don't check the steals, check the attempts. Catchers today aren't what they were either.

American League steal attempts, in the 1930's, 40, 50-56, 73-78, and 1996-2005. It's not inclusive of every year, and the NL only indicated stolen bases, not caught stealing, until 1951.

1930's in an eight team league, each team averaged 123 stolen base attempts.

1940's in an eight team league each team averaged 100 stolen base attempts.

1950-56 in an eight team league each team averaged 77 stolen base attempts.

1973-78 in a twelve team league, and after 1976 a fourteen team league, each team averaged 168 stolen base attempts.

1996-2005 in a fourteen team league, each team averaged 144 stolen base attempts.

The running game declined in the 1930's, and reached a low point in the 1950's. In the late 40's through the mid 50's, the stolen base wasn't an integral part of the offense, regardless of the ability of the players. I think turf required speed, and turf was everywhere in the 1970's, so guys like Omar Moreno, Willie Wison, Dave Cash, Mickey Rivers, Garry Maddox, etc. excelled. In this day and age, speed is specialized in the line-up.

The NL stats indicate that there were probably less stolen base attempts in the 30's through the mid 50's. The successful steals were considerably lower than the AL's during the same time period. I can't see managers giving up that many more outs.

fuzzy_patters
04-25-2006, 09:43 AM
All of these records are impressive, but you can add a caveat to each of them.

Hank Aaron hit 755 home runs, but that is really only one or two seasons worth of home runs more than Ruth hit.

Cy Young won 511 games, but pitchers pitched more often when he played than they do today.

Pete Rose had 4,256 hits, but there are better measures for a ballplayer than hit total. His batting average was not all that great.

Rickey Henderson had 1,270 steals, but players that played in other eras were discouraged from running.

Barry Bonds is a cheater and a SOB.

Nolan Ryan's 7 career no-hitters were impressive, but his career ERA is not that great. He racked up a ton of strikeouts, but he also walked a ton of guys.

By the way, why isn't Ryan's career strikeout record on the list? I don't think thay one will ever be broken.

With all that being said, I chose Ricky Henderson's steals. He blows everyone else out of the water in the stolen base category, and he could change a game unlike anyone else I have seen. He was a constant distratction for the pitcher.

Luke
04-25-2006, 10:03 AM
I would go with Aaron's HR record. The mental toughness that was required of him over the years is beyond my comprehension. SI once ran some examples of the hate mail he would get. It was truly some of the most vile stuff you could ever read. It ranged from plain old ignorant slurs to outright threats on his life. It only got worse as he approached the record. It might have made a lesser man walk away.

On top of that he was just so consistent throughout his career. Seemingly 33-40 HRs every year.

Luke
04-25-2006, 10:11 AM
Don't check the steals, check the attempts. Catchers today aren't what they were either.
To be fair to the catchers though, I see a lot more bases stolen on pitchers now, than say just 15 years ago. I'm struggling to think of young RHPs with a legit pick off move.