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UofCSoxFan
04-20-2006, 07:02 PM
Sox worth 315 million according to Forbes.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/33/Value_1.html

Up 20% from last year. I guess a World Series title is good for the bottom line as well.

Baseball in general looks to be in pretty good shape.

champagne030
04-20-2006, 07:18 PM
Sox worth 315 million according to Forbes.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/33/Value_1.html

Up 20% from last year. I guess a World Series title is good for the bottom line as well.

Baseball in general looks to be in pretty good shape.

That's some Enron like cooking of the books by the Cubune Co. if the flubs claim only $179M in revenue.......

MUsoxfan
04-20-2006, 07:31 PM
Let me just pull out my checkbook and make ol' JR an offer:redneck

Fenway
04-20-2006, 07:31 PM
That's some Enron like cooking of the books by the Cubune Co. if the flubs claim only $179M in revenue.......

It says the Red Sox and Yankees both "lost" big money :tongue:

I would love to see the revenue figures from NESN and the YES networks

The Nationals worth is insane

Ol' No. 2
04-20-2006, 07:48 PM
:reinsy $315??? Maybe I should cell...I mean sell.

Fenway
04-20-2006, 07:52 PM
:reinsy $315??? Maybe I should cell...I mean sell.


shhhhhh :dollarbill: could be lurking

goon
04-20-2006, 08:29 PM
shhhhhh :dollarbill: could be lurking


:puking:

Fenway
04-20-2006, 08:37 PM
I will never understand accounting



Cleveland had the highest estimated operating income at $34.6 million, followed by Houston at $30.2 million, Toronto at $29.7 million, Washington at $27.9 million, Atlanta at $27.6 million.
Other than the Yankees, the only teams with estimated operating losses were the Red Sox ($18.5 million), the Mets ($16.1 million), Florida ($11.9 million) and the Los Angeles Angels ($2.6 million).


The Indians????

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060420&content_id=1410612&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

SouthSide_HitMen
04-20-2006, 09:43 PM
I will never understand accounting



The Indians????

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060420&content_id=1410612&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

They are refering to NET Income after expense (EBITDA - Earnings before Interest, Tax, Depreciation and Amortization). Baseball has a set of books which is Forbes' best guess, a set of books for the IRS (not that they are "cheating" but rather they have different schedules for allowable depreciation and other expense) and a real set of books few on Earth have ever seen.

Since the Supreme Court ruled in 1922 that MLB is NOT a business which exempts baseball from antitrust laws all other private business must abide by and since taxpayers have given several billion dollars over the past two decades to pay for a majority of their capital expenses (i.e. Stadiums) I think the taxpayers of America are entitled to a certified financial statements from the 30 ballclubs and MLB's office.

The problem people have analyzing these guesstimates is the fact that a material portion of income (or expense) is made up for the clubs who own their broadcast rights. You can bet your last dollar the Tribune or NESN or YES would know what they would pay to broadcast an unrelated third party but MLB teams will always underreport their broadcasting revenue to claim less profit (or even a loss) in their negotiations with the union as well as when they go hat in hand for new stadiums to local, state and now federal (DC) governments. Fitzsimmons and other corporate managers want to boost broadcasting revenue they are responsible for to boost their pay, options and eventually their severance package.

ilsox7
04-20-2006, 10:20 PM
They are refering to NET Income after expense (EBITDA - Expense before Interest, Tax, Depreciation and Amortization). Baseball has a set of books which is Forbes' best guess, a set of books for the IRS (not that they are "cheating" but rather they have different schedules for allowable depreciation and other expense) and a real set of books few on Earth have ever seen.

Since the Supreme Court ruled in 1922 that MLB is NOT a business which exempts baseball from antitrust laws all other private business must abide by and since taxpayers have given several billion dollars over the past two decades to pay for a majority of their capital expenses (i.e. Stadiums) I think the taxpayers of America are entitled to a certified financial statements from the 30 ballclubs and MLB's office.

The problem people have analyzing these guesstimates is the fact that a material portion of income (or expense) is made up for the clubs who own their broadcast rights. You can bet your last dollar the Tribune or NESN or YES would know what they would pay to broadcast an unrelated third party but MLB teams will always underreport their broadcasting revenue to claim less profit (or even a loss) in their negotiations with the union as well as when they go hat in hand for new stadiums to local, state and now federal (DC) governments. Fitzsimmons and other corporate managers want to boost broadcasting revenue they are responsible for to boost their pay, options and eventually their severance package.

EBITDA = Earnings Before Interest, Tax, Depreciation and Amortization.

SouthSide_HitMen
04-20-2006, 10:44 PM
EBITDA = Earnings Before Interest, Tax, Depreciation and Amortization.

Yes (I hear the Illinois Board of Professional Certification coming to my house to shread my CPA license as I type this).

Typo I swear. :redface:

MrRoboto83
04-20-2006, 11:03 PM
How can the Nationals be worth that much?? Because of the new ball park? The Washington Redskins are also the highest NFL value.

lostletters
04-21-2006, 01:36 AM
It is important to note the Sox had an operating profit of 21.7 million dollars. That is nothing to sneeze at. It proves that the White Sox have a good business strategy.

Ditka311
04-21-2006, 01:59 AM
Let me just pull out my checkbook and make ol' JR an offer:redneck

Let's start up a collection. I got $1k on it!

UofCSoxFan
04-21-2006, 02:33 AM
All I know is I had my student loan "exit interview" today, which basically lays out the payment obligations for my student loans here at the U of C.

I may have to push back professional franchise ownership another year or two as a result.

StockdaleForVeep
04-21-2006, 03:30 AM
Sox worth 315 million according to Forbes.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/33/Value_1.html

Up 20% from last year. I guess a World Series title is good for the bottom line as well.

Baseball in general looks to be in pretty good shape.
Well the trophy and rings have alot of gold in em

Steelrod
04-21-2006, 07:57 AM
If Washington's worth $450 without a team or a history, the Sox are worth more!

Baby Fisk
04-21-2006, 08:17 AM
According to Forbes Magazine, the New York Yankees are now worth one billion dollars. The mind reels.

The Sox are worth $305 million (but their value is priceless, of course).

Start spreadin' the linky (http://www.nydailynews.com/front/v-echo/story/410812p-347455c.html)

EDIT: Oops! I missed this thread in the clubhouse. Sorry.

soxfan13
04-21-2006, 09:23 AM
the scary thing is they spent around 100 million on revenue sharing and luxury tax and that number alone would be in the top 4 salaries in baseball:o:

MisterB
04-21-2006, 09:28 AM
I will never understand accounting

The Indians????

The Indians are still in the midst of a 'youth movement', and their payroll is about $55 million, which is 6th smallest in the majors.

thepaulbowski
04-21-2006, 10:49 AM
It is important to note the Sox had an operating profit of 21.7 million dollars. That is nothing to sneeze at. It proves that the White Sox have a good business strategy.

Winning the World Series is a great business strategy.

Ol' No. 2
04-21-2006, 10:50 AM
Winning the World Series is a great business strategy.Right you are. I'm surprised more teams haven't caught on to that.:tongue:

hawkjt
04-21-2006, 12:53 PM
Jerry always said he would put the extra profit into the payroll.

last years payroll- 75 million
Plus last years income -22 million

This years payroll = 94 million after rebates on Javy and big Jim

That leaves at least 3 + million for add-ons thru out the year.

Good job kenny.

Dadawg_77
04-21-2006, 01:22 PM
They are refering to NET Income after expense (EBITDA - Earnings before Interest, Tax, Depreciation and Amortization). Baseball has a set of books which is Forbes' best guess, a set of books for the IRS (not that they are "cheating" but rather they have different schedules for allowable depreciation and other expense) and a real set of books few on Earth have ever seen.

Since the Supreme Court ruled in 1922 that MLB is NOT a business which exempts baseball from antitrust laws all other private business must abide by and since taxpayers have given several billion dollars over the past two decades to pay for a majority of their capital expenses (i.e. Stadiums) I think the taxpayers of America are entitled to a certified financial statements from the 30 ballclubs and MLB's office.

The problem people have analyzing these guesstimates is the fact that a material portion of income (or expense) is made up for the clubs who own their broadcast rights. You can bet your last dollar the Tribune or NESN or YES would know what they would pay to broadcast an unrelated third party but MLB teams will always underreport their broadcasting revenue to claim less profit (or even a loss) in their negotiations with the union as well as when they go hat in hand for new stadiums to local, state and now federal (DC) governments. Fitzsimmons and other corporate managers want to boost broadcasting revenue they are responsible for to boost their pay, options and eventually their severance package.

Well if MLB decides to take MLBAM public, this all changes. However this is unlikely as MLB would rather not open its books even when it prevents them from obtaining 2-3 billion dollars in cash.

SouthSide_HitMen
04-21-2006, 02:09 PM
Well if MLB decides to take MLBAM public, this all changes. However this is unlikely as MLB would rather not open its books even when it prevents them from obtaining 2-3 billion dollars in cash.

I agree - it take take an act of Congress to require the 30 MLB teams to disclose their books.

As far as their internet site (and broadcasting rights on the site) it is rumored to be worth the $2 - $3 billion. If they sold it it would be part of the (most likely) public company that owns it and the financial results would NOT be required to be noted separately from the rest of the acquiring company's business (nor would MLB's other income need to be disclosed).

The only thing that is certain is the income and net income figures are underreported for many of the teams with the Cubs, Red Sox and Yankees (top teams owning their broadcasting rights via a media company they own) having the highest discrepancy. You can include the White Sox with their ownership share in Comcast SportsNet but it is small potatoes vs. WGN TV and Radio rights as the White Sox only get a portion (about 1/3 give or take) of the income / revenue.

Many of the smaller market teams disclosures in Forbes are pretty acquired (as long as Forbes gets the MLB shared revenue and welfare numbers correct which MLB does NOT publically disclose) though they may be getting more money than Forbes is privy to and also may have a much higher gross and net income.

Even if the numbers are publically audited, Americans have seen just how much those numbers are based on estimates and in some cases fraud. However, jail time and large fines does provide a public company and their upper management incentive to provide somewhat accurate reporting (much better than Congress' reporting of our government's long and short term financial situation as well as Fannie Mae which they have oversight for).

Dadawg_77
04-21-2006, 02:53 PM
I agree - it take take an act of Congress to require the 30 MLB teams to disclose their books.

As far as their internet site (and broadcasting rights on the site) it is rumored to be worth the $2 - $3 billion. If they sold it it would be part of the (most likely) public company that owns it and the financial results would NOT be required to be noted separately from the rest of the acquiring company's business (nor would MLB's other income need to be disclosed).

The only thing that is certain is the income and net income figures are underreported for many of the teams with the Cubs, Red Sox and Yankees (top teams owning their broadcasting rights via a media company they own) having the highest discrepancy. You can include the White Sox with their ownership share in Comcast SportsNet but it is small potatoes vs. WGN TV and Radio rights as the White Sox only get a portion (about 1/3 give or take) of the income / revenue.

Many of the smaller market teams disclosures in Forbes are pretty acquired (as long as Forbes gets the MLB shared revenue and welfare numbers correct which MLB does NOT publically disclose) though they may be getting more money than Forbes is privy to and also may have a much higher gross and net income.

Even if the numbers are publically audited, Americans have seen just how much those numbers are based on estimates and in some cases fraud. However, jail time and large fines does provide a public company and their upper management incentive to provide somewhat accurate reporting (much better than Congress' reporting of our government's long and short term financial situation as well as Fannie Mae which they have oversight for).

Not sure of of the SEC rules and other laws on this, just going by what I heard. Due to MBLBA current ownership structure, MLB would have to open their books to take it public. Plus rumors are only 30% would be sold so that might change the disclosure requirements.

Oh if anyone wonders why the owners love Bud. This represents 66M to 100M of equity on an investment of 2M over 2 years. Also, this could change the way the game is funded like TV did with NFL.

SBSoxFan
04-21-2006, 03:01 PM
:?::?::?:

I'm going back to the "Article on what pitches do" thread!

Fenway
04-21-2006, 03:07 PM
boston.com blog writer says the Yankees are good for baseball :?:

According to Forbes, the New York Yankees and their Evil Empire are worth $1 billion (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/04/17/06mlb_baseball-team-valuations-cx_mo_0420sports.html). One. Billion. Dollars. The Yankees are bad for baseball? Heck, no. Baseball in fact needs the Yankees, who doled out $77 million in revenue sharing last season, even if the Devil Rays, Pirates, and Royals don’t look it. It is, according to Forbes, “the reason why the Oakland Athletics, Minnesota Twins and Kansas City Royals increased in value by more than 20%.”

http://www.boston.com/sports/nesn/wilbur/sports_blog/blog/

SouthSide_HitMen
04-21-2006, 03:38 PM
boston.com blog writer says the Yankees are good for baseball :?:

According to Forbes, the New York Yankees and their Evil Empire are worth $1 billion (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/04/17/06mlb_baseball-team-valuations-cx_mo_0420sports.html). One. Billion. Dollars. The Yankees are bad for baseball? Heck, no. Baseball in fact needs the Yankees, who doled out $77 million in revenue sharing last season, even if the Devil Rays, Pirates, and Royals don’t look it. It is, according to Forbes, “the reason why the Oakland Athletics, Minnesota Twins and Kansas City Royals increased in value by more than 20%.”

http://www.boston.com/sports/nesn/wilbur/sports_blog/blog/

The Yankees handing out $77 million in welfare. The club is also a top ticket seller for markets with many empty seats throughout the season. Some teams double the average tickets sold while others see a significant bump or sell out when normally they would have 75% of capacity sold.

Also included are revenues MLB collectively takes in for the Yankees being part of national telecasts and playoff rights, merchandise and other MLB sales that are split among the clubs. The Yankees are responsible for several times (10% or so) of the revenue a weak club will bring in "3%" (1/30 or just over 3% per club - a Royals or Tampa brings in 1 or 2% of the total MLB shared revenue).

Granted part of this is due to 11 million people living in the New York area, but the Yankees stunk in the 1980s and their rise in their "return to glory" during the 1990s lifted all teams with huge new national deals after their World Series and continued success.

No other team in baseball inspires either the love or the hate the Yankees do and passion sells.