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View Full Version : Jacque Jones says Twins "dominated" the Sox over the years


chaerulez
04-19-2006, 03:55 PM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-060419outloudjones,1,1299587.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

All that "domination" really resulted in a lot of playoff series wins.

Dick Allen
04-19-2006, 04:01 PM
Proving once again that stupidity isn't limited strictly to the Cubs' fans.

gbergman
04-19-2006, 04:05 PM
what a moron

Hitmen77
04-19-2006, 04:06 PM
Boy, those Cubs are really obsessed about the Sox, aren't they? It seems like everytime I read an interview with a Flub, he's got something negative to say about the Sox. Crybabies.

TheOldRoman
04-19-2006, 04:32 PM
Boy, those Cubs are really obsessed about the Sox, aren't they? It seems like everytime I read an interview with a Flub, he's got something negative to say about the Sox. Crybabies.
Yep, in the last few months I have heard Pierre and Derrek Lee say they want to be the ones to "finally bring a world series championship to Chicago".

As PHG would say, obsess much?:cool:

Uncle_Patrick
04-19-2006, 04:48 PM
When did the White Sox ever say that the Twins "couldn't compete with them"?

spawn
04-19-2006, 04:54 PM
Well, everything he's saying is true. The Sox were great for talking trash about the Twins to the media (remember Billy Koch?) but didn't get the job done on the field. Every big series, they took it to us. He was asked about the rivalry, and he was right. There really wasn't one. And I believe AJ said the same thing last year. I don't see anything wrong with what Jones said.

SoxSpeed22
04-19-2006, 05:01 PM
Too bad for him, that's done with.
Now we have one thing that he never got in Minny and never will get. The ring.

LongLiveFisk
04-19-2006, 05:15 PM
Too bad for him, that's done with.
Now we have one thing that he never got in Minny and never will get. The ring.

Exactly. Those sour grapes sure produce a lot of WHINE. :whiner:

Iwritecode
04-19-2006, 05:16 PM
From 1999 - 2005 (the years he was there)

H2H games - 118
Sox record - 57 - 60
Win % - .487

Not exactly what I'd call dominating. I'd say they were pretty even.

I do have to admit there were a couple of years where a couple more wins against the Twins would've made a big difference in the standings. Especially in 2001 where they went a horrible 5- 14. :(:

palehozenychicty
04-19-2006, 05:24 PM
The Twins only beat us when it counted because of Gandhi's motivational tactics. As long as KW and Ozzie man the ship, the Twins beating us out in the division is done.

spawn
04-19-2006, 05:27 PM
From 1999 - 2005 (the years he was there)

H2H games - 118
Sox record - 57 - 60
Win % - .487

Not exactly what I'd call dominating. I'd say they were pretty even.

I do have to admit there were a couple of years where a couple more wins against the Twins would've made a big difference in the standings. Especially in 2001 where they went a horrible 5- 14. :(:
Exactly. Overall stats are misleeading because the Twins were horrible in '99 and 2000. And I recall they won every series during their 3-year run at the top of the division when it mattered the most.

Hitmen77
04-19-2006, 05:28 PM
Well, everything he's saying is true. The Sox were great for talking trash about the Twins to the media (remember Billy Koch?) but didn't get the job done on the field. Every big series, they took it to us. He was asked about the rivalry, and he was right. There really wasn't one. And I believe AJ said the same thing last year. I don't see anything wrong with what Jones said.

The Sox didn't get the job done on the field in 2005? :?:

I'm sorry, but Jones was on the Twins last year when we spanked them pretty good on our way to WINNING THE WORLD SERIES. I guess it's easy to be right when someone can pick and choose which time frame he's talking about.

spawn
04-19-2006, 05:34 PM
The Sox didn't get the job done on the field in 2005? :?:

I'm sorry, but Jones was on the Twins last year when we spanked them pretty good on our way to WINNING THE WORLD SERIES. I guess it's easy to be right when someone can pick and choose which time frame he's talking about.
He did give the Sox their props in the article:

They came through last year and beat us pretty good in the regular season and went on to win the World Series.

Once again, I find nothing wrong with what he said.

Iwritecode
04-19-2006, 05:38 PM
Exactly. Overall stats are misleeading because the Twins were horrible in '99 and 2000. And I recall they won every series during their 3-year run at the top of the division when it mattered the most.

Not really...

Sox record over the years:
1999: 8 - 3
2000: 7 - 5
2001: 5 - 14
2002: 8 - 11
2003: 9 - 10
2004: 9 - 10
2005: 11 - 7

Really the only year that sticks out is 2001. If Jones were to say they dominated the Sox in 2001 then he might be right. But overall they were pretty much even.

For a while, I don't think it was a rivalry (with the White Sox) because a rivalry consists of going back and forth, and for a while, we (the Twins) dominated those guys. We had more of a rivalry with the Indians than the White Sox. They came through last year and beat us pretty good in the regular season and went on to win the World Series. They talked a lot in the paper. They belittled us, they said we couldn't compete with them.

"For a while" must mean the 8 straight H2H matchups the Twins won in 2001. Other than that it was back and forth between them.

Iwritecode
04-19-2006, 05:40 PM
He did give the Sox their props in the article:

Once again, I find nothing wrong with what he said.

That's nice but he's still wrong...

miker
04-19-2006, 06:19 PM
Jock-strap Jones...enjoy your time on the Northside as they close in on a century of futility.

Drillrod!

Ol' No. 2
04-19-2006, 06:23 PM
It don't mean a thing if you ain't got that ring.

TheOldRoman
04-19-2006, 06:32 PM
Over the last 2-3 years of the Gardenhire Dynasty, it seemed like the Sox jumped all over the Twins early, and the Twins won all the late matchups. The Sox started 7-2 against the Twins in 2004, only to win 2 of the final 10 matchups. Of course, the Sox losing Thomas and Ordonez had a little something to do with that.

As for the Sox trash talking, I don't remember that much of it, other than Koch. I do remember the Twins doing their fair share, most noteably Mientkiewicz. Nobody could deny the Sox had more talent those years. If the Sox had a competant manager in 02 and 03, the Twins' run would have never happened.

gobears1987
04-19-2006, 07:57 PM
From 1999 - 2005 (the years he was there)

H2H games - 118
Sox record - 57 - 60
Win % - .487

Not exactly what I'd call dominating. I'd say they were pretty even.

I do have to admit there were a couple of years where a couple more wins against the Twins would've made a big difference in the standings. Especially in 2001 where they went a horrible 5- 14. :(:The fact is when it came to do or die time, we would lose. See the July 2004 series when Hunter ran Burke over or the Sep 2003 series that cost Loaiza the Cy Young and the Sox a chance for the playoffs,

Jurr
04-19-2006, 08:08 PM
Over the last 2-3 years of the Gardenhire Dynasty, it seemed like the Sox jumped all over the Twins early, and the Twins won all the late matchups. The Sox started 7-2 against the Twins in 2004, only to win 2 of the final 10 matchups. Of course, the Sox losing Thomas and Ordonez had a little something to do with that.

As for the Sox trash talking, I don't remember that much of it, other than Koch. I do remember the Twins doing their fair share, most noteably Mientkiewicz. Nobody could deny the Sox had more talent those years. If the Sox had a competant manager in 02 and 03, the Twins' run would have never happened.
Ray Durham did a lot of it. Keith Foulke did his share, as well. Those were the main culprits, especially Ray.

Jurr
04-19-2006, 08:14 PM
Ray Durham did a lot of it. Keith Foulke did his share, as well. Those were the main culprits, especially Ray.
From some Twins message board: All of it is, in fact, true.

'Ray Durham said the Twins "weren't even worth worrying about, Keith Foulke called us arrogant and Bob Howry said we were overrated. Or in '03, when Billy Koch claimed we'd only won the division the year before due to "baseball bounces" and a lack of "bad luck." Or at the end of last season when Mark Buehrle implied he was glad the Sox didn't win the division because they'd get to go home earlier."

JUribe1989
04-19-2006, 08:50 PM
Jacque Jones and his 2 hits sure do trash talk a lot.
:D:

Seriuosly, **** off. We owned the Twinkies last year.

buehrle4cy05
04-19-2006, 08:58 PM
This is about as funny as David Terrell's "I am the best wide receiver in the league" little comment.

Nobody cares, Jacque, because we have a ring.

mikeybooyah
04-19-2006, 09:05 PM
I just don't get how the Indians were their rivals. How many times did we finish 2nd behind them? It's like us calling the Tigers our rivals. He is an idiot.

RKMeibalane
04-19-2006, 09:12 PM
When did the White Sox ever say that the Twins "couldn't compete with them"?

:manos

"I said that."

TheOldRoman
04-19-2006, 09:41 PM
From some Twins message board: All of it is, in fact, true.

'Ray Durham said the Twins "weren't even worth worrying about, Keith Foulke called us arrogant and Bob Howry said we were overrated. Or in '03, when Billy Koch claimed we'd only won the division the year before due to "baseball bounces" and a lack of "bad luck." Or at the end of last season when Mark Buehrle implied he was glad the Sox didn't win the division because they'd get to go home earlier." :?: And that is imflammatory HOW? If I live to be 100 I know I will not see another team as lucky as the Twins were those 3 years. Every one of their hits fell, every ball bounced right to them, THE TYING RUN WAS OUT BY 10 FEET AND THE RUNNER BROKE THE CATCHER'S HAND CRASHING INTO HIM, CAUSING THE BALL TO GET AWAY AND THE WINNING RUN TO SCORE!

If someone wrote a book about the Twins it would be written off as too fake. Everything that possibly go right for them did until playoff time rolled around.

Irishsox1
04-19-2006, 10:16 PM
The only part I disagree with Jones is the whole "I don't think it was a rivalry" crap. The Sox finished second to the Twins in '02, '03 & '04. Also, tell that it wasn't a rivalry to Torii Hunter when he gave the worst cheap shot to Jamie Burke and yes, I think it was a cheap shot and it also explains why Freddy Garcia hit Hunter the next time the Sox faced the Twins.

But, for the sake of an argument, if Jones is correct and the Sox and Twins wasn't a rivalry, the then Cubs and Cardinals isn't a rivalry. Since 1996 the Cardinals have been to the playoffs 6 times, while the Cubbies only two. Not much of a rivalry if you ask me.

chaerulez
04-19-2006, 10:21 PM
Yeah, I didn't like the fact he doesn't think it was a rivalry either. The fans sure considered it to be one, even Boston and Tampa Bay have what most people would consider a rivarly and in that case Boston has actually dominated them.

Hitmen77
04-19-2006, 10:24 PM
From some Twins message board: All of it is, in fact, true.

'Ray Durham said the Twins "weren't even worth worrying about, Keith Foulke called us arrogant and Bob Howry said we were overrated. Or in '03, when Billy Koch claimed we'd only won the division the year before due to "baseball bounces" and a lack of "bad luck." Or at the end of last season when Mark Buehrle implied he was glad the Sox didn't win the division because they'd get to go home earlier."

Durham, Foulke, Howry, Koch....None of these guys had anything to do with our '05 championship. They're part of the old clubhouse attitude that KW swept away. I think the current team (05 and 06) has a much better attitude than that.

Oh, and that stuff about Buehrle sounds like BS to me. What did he imply exactly? I'd like to hear someone argue that Mark Buehrle is anything but a total team player and competitor.

Foulke You
04-19-2006, 10:30 PM
What a load of garbage from Jones. You can have your 3 division titles and choke jobs in the playoffs against the Yankees, Jacque. We'll take our World Series ring.:cool:

Also, the whole "White Sox talked tons of trash" is way overblown. Yes, there were some Sox players who said derogatory things about the Twins that has been talked around these parts ad nauseum but the door definitely swung both ways as the Twins (ESPECIALLY Jones and Hunter) were ALWAYS flapping their lips about the Sox.

The Sox were always portrayed in the media as the hot shot big market arrogant media guys while the Twins were the underdog good guys who fought off contraction so everything our guys said was a headline in the Minneapolis Star Tribune and everything the Twins said was a small blurb behind some coverage of the Cubs that nobody but the diehard Sox fans noticed. Even in 2004, when nobody on the Sox said anything but positives about the Twins, Jones and Hunter carried on the persecution complex of "nobody gives us respect" crap in the papers and mouthing off about the Sox.

Anyone who wants to drum up some of the old Jacque Jones hating days on the Twins should scan through these old threads:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=37969&page=2&highlight=Jacque+Jones

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=33831&highlight=Jacque+Jones

Ol' No. 2
04-19-2006, 10:32 PM
:?: And that is imflammatory HOW? If I live to be 100 I know I will not see another team as lucky as the Twins were those 3 years. Every one of their hits fell, every ball bounced right to them, THE TYING RUN WAS OUT BY 10 FEET AND THE RUNNER BROKE THE CATCHER'S HAND CRASHING INTO HIM, CAUSING THE BALL TO GET AWAY AND THE WINNING RUN TO SCORE!

If someone wrote a book about the Twins it would be written off as too fake. Everything that possibly go right for them did until playoff time rolled around.Now you're starting to sound like BP. They beat them when it counted, and that's the bottom line.

But who you crappin', Jones? The Twins were geared up for White Sox games like no other.:rolleyes:

TheOldRoman
04-19-2006, 11:09 PM
Now you're starting to sound like BP. They beat them when it counted, and that's the bottom line.

But who you crappin', Jones? The Twins were geared up for White Sox games like no other.:rolleyes:
No, I am not saying that winning one run games isn't a skill, I am just saying that the Twins were EXTRMELY lucky over that span.
They obviously were a very good team. They had great pitching, solid defense, and timely hitting. I am not going to claim they were "playing over their heads" as BP likes to say about the Sox, but the Twins got every single break. Every ball bounced their way.

drewcifer
04-19-2006, 11:16 PM
No, I am not saying that winning one run games isn't a skill, I am just saying that the Twins were EXTRMELY lucky over that span.
They obviously were a very good team. They had great pitching, solid defense, and timely hitting. I am not going to claim they were "playing over their heads" as BP likes to say about the Sox, but the Twins got every single break. Every ball bounced their way.
Twins will lose the series.

chisoxfanatic
04-19-2006, 11:20 PM
Exactly what did that get your Twins, Jacque??? ZILCH, ZERO!!! I think SOMEONE'S bitter that WE came, saw, and conquered, and then took it to the playoff field, beating them soundly in every facet of the game, and that we WON THE WHOLE SHEBANG!!!

TheOldRoman
04-19-2006, 11:25 PM
Twins will lose the series.
:?:
Care to elaborate by making that a complete thought?

nedlug
04-19-2006, 11:40 PM
:?:
Care to elaborate by making that a complete thought?

:D:

ma-gaga
04-19-2006, 11:46 PM
I think just the WAY the Twins beat the W.Sox was so unreal. So absurd. So dramatic, that the feel of the Twins vs the W.Sox just felt like a domination.

I mean, I can name 4-5 games that happened over the last 5 years that just didn't make sense. Or were just such emotional games:

Carlos Lee's throw to home hitting a bat in foul territory.
Torii Hunter robbing Carlos Lee of a bomb.
Denny Hocking hitting a triple against Keith Foulke.
Torii running over Burke.
Freddy vs Santana, Jacque Jones with the only hit.

Tell me those weren't incredible games. They could have gone either way, but somehow the ball bounced in the Twins court every single damn time.

I was disappointed that the W.Sox didn't have a "statement" game against the Twins. They won the season series, but it really didn't have the same meaning because the W.Sox were so damn far ahead in the division it didn't "matter".

Seriously, I want to see a statement game between the two teams. And I didn't get that last year.

:cool:

Johnny Mostil
04-19-2006, 11:58 PM
I think just the WAY the Twins beat the W.Sox was so unreal. So absurd. So dramatic, that the feel of the Twins vs the W.Sox just felt like a domination.


And I can think of at least one game the Sox won in one of the Twins' title years (2003) that felt like a Minnesota domination . . . (****ing Paniagua:angry: . . .) . . .

DMarte708
04-20-2006, 12:15 AM
I think just the WAY the Twins beat the W.Sox was so unreal. So absurd. So dramatic, that the feel of the Twins vs the W.Sox just felt like a domination.

I mean, I can name 4-5 games that happened over the last 5 years that just didn't make sense. Or were just such emotional games:

Carlos Lee's throw to home hitting a bat in foul territory.
Torii Hunter robbing Carlos Lee of a bomb.
Denny Hocking hitting a triple against Keith Foulke.
Torii running over Burke.
Freddy vs Santana, Jacque Jones with the only hit.
:cool: Don't forget two seasons ago against the Twins, in the 9th inning, when Valentin dropped an easy foul ball which would have ended a scoring threat. IMMEDIATELY the next pitch from Shingo was hit into LF for the eventual winning run. That game aggrivated me so much watching from the stands. I recall they had numerous opportunities to break it open, and continually failed. Borchard fittingly struck out against Nathan to end the game.

We've had our breaks against the TWins as well. Let's not forget last season, when El-Duque left something like 12 men on base against the Twins through 7 innings. It was ridiculous, and I remember thinking to myself, "this makes up for all the **** they've put us through the last several years."

You mentioned earlier about the broken arm incident. I distinctly remember it occuring against Anaheim. Hunter broke Molina's arm. It stood out because it was a crucial period where I believe Twins were ahead 3 games, were about to face us the following week, and we had already won.

Oh, and another game comes to mind where Doug Mient... actually struck out in the 9th inning with 2 outs and Minnesota losing, but reached base when the ball slipped out of the catchers hand and rolled to the backstop. Of course, the winning run eventually scored.

These were two examples of games which were plain luck, and just exemplified the Twins prior to 2005. They were MUCH better at making a team pay for a mistake than even our club last year. I swear, if any of our players committed an error you just knew a run was coming around to score. Whether it was 2 outs or not.

gobears1987
04-20-2006, 12:19 AM
I think just the WAY the Twins beat the W.Sox was so unreal. So absurd. So dramatic, that the feel of the Twins vs the W.Sox just felt like a domination.

I mean, I can name 4-5 games that happened over the last 5 years that just didn't make sense. Or were just such emotional games:

Carlos Lee's throw to home hitting a bat in foul territory.
Torii Hunter robbing Carlos Lee of a bomb.
Denny Hocking hitting a triple against Keith Foulke.
Torii running over Burke.
Freddy vs Santana, Jacque Jones with the only hit.

Tell me those weren't incredible games. They could have gone either way, but somehow the ball bounced in the Twins court every single damn time.

I was disappointed that the W.Sox didn't have a "statement" game against the Twins. They won the season series, but it really didn't have the same meaning because the W.Sox were so damn far ahead in the division it didn't "matter".

Seriously, I want to see a statement game between the two teams. And I didn't get that last year.

:cool:that's pretty much my point. It wasn't just the way the Sox lost, it is when they lost. They won the early games, but when it was do or die, they'd lose to the Twins. It made it feel like we couldn't beat them.

SouthSide_HitMen
04-20-2006, 12:56 AM
It don't mean a thing if you ain't got that ring.

http://www.empire.k12.ca.us/capistrano/Mike/capmusic/modern/american%20composers/ellington/elld006.jpg

Doo-wat doo-wat, doo-wat doo-wat, doo-wat doo-wat.


What good are wildcards, or division champs

If it ain't possessin' something sweet?

It ain't luck Beane Bots, it ain't awards

Something else makes a year complete.

It don't mean a thing, if you ain't got that ring

Doo-wat doo-wat, doo-wat doo-wat, doo-wat doo-wat

Doo-wat doo-wat, doo-wat doo-wat, doo-waaaa


http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/2006/04/04/V62aALUG.jpg

PKalltheway
04-20-2006, 01:04 AM
Hey, all of what happened between us and the Twins between 2002 and 2004 is now void. We kicked their teeth in during 2005, finishing 16 games up on those fools. They won the Central three years in a row. So what? Did they ever win a World Series between then? I seem to recall the deepest they ever got into the postseason during that run was in the 2002 ALCS when they got shelled by the Angels 13-5 in Game 5. To make matters worse, they had a 5-3 lead in the seventh inning of that game. By the end of the seventh, they were losing 13-5.:cool:

TheOldRoman
04-20-2006, 01:05 AM
You mentioned earlier about the broken arm incident. I distinctly remember it occuring against Anaheim. Hunter broke Molina's arm. It stood out because it was a crucial period where I believe Twins were ahead 3 games, were about to face us the following week, and we had already won.
I don't think Shingo was pitching when Valentin made his error. As I remember, the game was tied, the Sox were not leading.

As for the above incident, the Twins were down by two games. That was right before the 4 game set where the Sox took the first two and lost the last two at home. I was watching BBTN afternoon addition, waiting for the Twins to lose so the lead grew to 3 games. I got sick to my stomach when I saw the clip. I knew in the back of my mind that it was over then.

SouthSide_HitMen
04-20-2006, 01:06 AM
Exactly what did that get your Twins, Jacque??? ZILCH, ZERO!!! I think SOMEONE'S bitter that WE came, saw, and conquered, and then took it to the playoff field, beating them soundly in every facet of the game, and that we WON THE WHOLE SHEBANG!!!

Well he did find someone to give his weak hitting corner outfield ass over $15 million. So he has that going for him. :redneck

(The same team who gave a certain pitcher known as the :gascan $12 million). BBBBWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!

Hitmen77
04-20-2006, 09:05 AM
I think just the WAY the Twins beat the W.Sox was so unreal. So absurd. So dramatic, that the feel of the Twins vs the W.Sox just felt like a domination.

I mean, I can name 4-5 games that happened over the last 5 years that just didn't make sense. Or were just such emotional games:

Carlos Lee's throw to home hitting a bat in foul territory.
Torii Hunter robbing Carlos Lee of a bomb.
Denny Hocking hitting a triple against Keith Foulke.
Torii running over Burke.
Freddy vs Santana, Jacque Jones with the only hit.

Tell me those weren't incredible games. They could have gone either way, but somehow the ball bounced in the Twins court every single damn time.

I was disappointed that the W.Sox didn't have a "statement" game against the Twins. They won the season series, but it really didn't have the same meaning because the W.Sox were so damn far ahead in the division it didn't "matter".

Seriously, I want to see a statement game between the two teams. And I didn't get that last year.

:cool:

The Sox Had the Ultimate Statement Game on October 26, 2005. I'll take that over some game against the Twinkies anyday.

drewcifer
04-20-2006, 09:29 AM
:?:
Care to elaborate by making that a complete thought?

I actually thought it was a complete thought but let me show you how I very quickly concluded it:

Twins record on the road: 1-5 (Sox at home: 6-3)
Twins Team ERA: 5.75 (only 3 teams are worse in baseball)
WhiteSox Team ERA: 4.53 (10th out of all)

On the offensive side, we have a better OBP, OPS, and more Runs scored.

Hope this helps.

daveeym
04-20-2006, 09:41 AM
Over the last 2-3 years of the Gardenhire Dynasty, it seemed like the Sox jumped all over the Twins early, and the Twins won all the late matchups. The Sox started 7-2 against the Twins in 2004, only to win 2 of the final 10 matchups. Of course, the Sox losing Thomas and Ordonez had a little something to do with that.

As for the Sox trash talking, I don't remember that much of it, other than Koch. I do remember the Twins doing their fair share, most noteably Mientkiewicz. Nobody could deny the Sox had more talent those years. If the Sox had a competant manager in 02 and 03, the Twins' run would have never happened. Pornstache did a lot of talking. Buerhle on occasion mouthed off. They did talk a lot but it was usually in retaliation to the Twins smack and towards the end of the year. Then they'd go and tank 2 series against the twins in late august and it was over.

Johnny Mostil
04-20-2006, 09:49 AM
The Sox Had the Ultimate Statement Game on October 26, 2005. I'll take that over some game against the Twinkies anyday.

Two statement games--they won two games that day. (I know what you're saying, but I'll always get a kick out of the Sox being the first team to win two World Series games in one day.)

I'm guessing what our friend m-g means by saying he wants to see a "statement" game between the two teams is he wants the Twins to be closer to the Sox this year. That way, games between the two teams will mean more. I hope he's disappointed again:wink: :tongue: .

PaleHoseGeorge
04-20-2006, 09:57 AM
The Sox Had the Ultimate Statement Game on October 26, 2005. I'll take that over some game against the Twinkies anyday.

Exactly. Winning the division is great and a tip of the cap to the Twinks and their whiny manager, Ron Gardenhire, for winning three in a row. The Sox haven't accomplished what they did, and they could learn a lesson about teamwork and sticking together from Minnesota, too.

However winning the world championship is something Gardenhire's Twins have never come close to achieving. Furthermore I'll take last year's Sox world championship over either of the two world championships Minnesota has ever managed -- neither of them by Ron Gardenhire's Twins.

Ol' No. 2
04-20-2006, 10:20 AM
No, I am not saying that winning one run games isn't a skill, I am just saying that the Twins were EXTRMELY lucky over that span.
They obviously were a very good team. They had great pitching, solid defense, and timely hitting. I am not going to claim they were "playing over their heads" as BP likes to say about the Sox, but the Twins got every single break. Every ball bounced their way.The Sox got their share of breaks, too, but somehow people only remember the ones the winning team got. People have said the same thing about the Sox' 2005 post-season. Was Pierzynski stealing first against LAAA a break? Sure. So what? Every team gets breaks. Some capitalize on them, some don't. For years the Twins capitalized on their breaks and the Sox didn't.

If you want to point to a reason the Sox won last year it was because they became a lot more like the Twins' teams of 2002-2004. Only better.

TheOldRoman
04-20-2006, 11:34 AM
I actually thought it was a complete thought but let me show you how I very quickly concluded it:

Twins record on the road: 1-5 (Sox at home: 6-3)
Twins Team ERA: 5.75 (only 3 teams are worse in baseball)
WhiteSox Team ERA: 4.53 (10th out of all)

On the offensive side, we have a better OBP, OPS, and more Runs scored.

Hope this helps.
OK, and you can see how I would be confused by the comment "twins will lose the series". Normally, when someone says "THE series", they are referring to the world series, not an upcoming series. Of course the Twins will lose this series.

drewcifer
04-20-2006, 11:35 AM
OK, and you can see how I would be confused by the comment "twins will lose the series". Normally, when someone says "THE series", they are referring to the world series, not an upcoming series. Of course the Twins will lose this series.

Gotcha. No, meant the upcoming series this weekend where Jacques Jones' comments will be proven as irrelevant.

ma-gaga
04-20-2006, 12:11 PM
Hunter broke Molina's arm.
...
Oh, and another game comes to mind where Doug Mient... actually struck out in the 9th inning with 2 outs and Minnesota losing, but reached base when the ball slipped out of the catchers hand and rolled to the backstop.

Just nitpicking here. It was Dustin Mohr that broke Molina's wrist, on Shannon Stewarts "double". Mohr was out by 20 feet, but he crushed the ball, body and wrist of Molina. The ball scooted away and Stewart never stopped running and was the winning "in the park" homerun.

The other one was Michael Restovich that struck out, took a couple of steps towards the dugout, saw/heard everyone SCREAMING at him to RUN! He made it to the base at the same time as the ball got there, but the First Baseman dropped the throw as well, and I think the tying run came in and scored... I don't remember if that was the end of the game, all I know is that Restovich ran really well for as big of a guy that he is. He was dead to rights twice, and somehow survived.

It's funny that you remember the two most "hated" Twins, doing this stuff.

:cool:

ma-gaga
04-20-2006, 12:14 PM
However winning the world championship is something Gardenhire's Twins have never come close to achieving. Furthermore I'll take last year's Sox world championship over either of the two world championships Minnesota has ever managed -- neither of them by Ron Gardenhire's Twins.

No arguments about Gardenhire. He's a fine manager, but he's not great.

...

And I'll take 1991 over any World Series I've seen. :cool:

PaleHoseGeorge
04-20-2006, 12:26 PM
And I'll take 1991 over any World Series I've seen. :cool:

Bears fans say the same thing about the 1986 Super Bowl. At some point they start making fun of you on SNL.
:wink:

voodoochile
04-20-2006, 12:29 PM
Bears fans say the same thing about the 1986 Super Bowl. At some point they start making fun of you on SNL.
:wink:

Only if you've got a cool enough city and a large enough fan base for people to care about you...:tongue:

hawkjt
04-20-2006, 12:57 PM
Needless to say, Mr Jones' comments add a little spice and make me even more anxious to greet him in right field at Soxpark next month.

I do not think sox fans have forgotten his ''whirlybird'' home run poses like in that pitching duel last year. He made a habit of striking the pose after homers against the sox but hopefully there will be no posing this year.

I believe that Mr. Jones may quickly become the cub we love to hate. Good. I hope sox fans boo his ass into the ground out there in right. Bullpen bar is close enough to him to remind him that he is not appreciated at Soxpark.

Iwritecode
04-20-2006, 01:19 PM
Just nitpicking here. It was Dustin Mohr that broke Molina's wrist, on Shannon Stewarts "double". Mohr was out by 20 feet, but he crushed the ball, body and wrist of Molina. The ball scooted away and Stewart never stopped running and was the winning "in the park" homerun.

The other one was Michael Restovich that struck out, took a couple of steps towards the dugout, saw/heard everyone SCREAMING at him to RUN! He made it to the base at the same time as the ball got there, but the First Baseman dropped the throw as well, and I think the tying run came in and scored... I don't remember if that was the end of the game, all I know is that Restovich ran really well for as big of a guy that he is. He was dead to rights twice, and somehow survived.

It's funny that you remember the two most "hated" Twins, doing this stuff.

:cool:

Well, he was close on the second one. Note that our other most "hated" Twin (at the time) was invovled in the play as well. :cool:

M Restovich struck out swinging, M Restovich safe at first on throwing error by catcher B Fordyce, D Mientkiewicz scored, A Pierzynski to second.

I did happen to notice that both these games took place at the Humpdome. The Twins have had a lot of "good luck" and visiting teams a lot of "bad luck" at that place over the years...

Johnny Mostil
04-20-2006, 02:14 PM
I did happen to notice that both these games took place at the Humpdome. The Twins have had a lot of "good luck" and visiting teams a lot of "bad luck" at that place over the years...

Quick--when was the last time a visiting team won a World Series game in Minnesota (or the last time the Twins franchise--note that qualifier--won a World Series game on the road)?

Answer at http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B10140MIN1965.htm (and http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B10070PIT1925.htm).

maurice
04-20-2006, 02:22 PM
the door definitely swung both ways as the Twins (ESPECIALLY Jones and Hunter) were ALWAYS flapping their lips about the Sox.

Don't forget the infamous Dougie Menskrewzhfsttz telling the media that MLB should pull the All-Star game. Garland retaliated by drilling him twice.
:gulp:

ma-gaga
04-20-2006, 02:33 PM
I'm guessing what our friend m-g means by saying he wants to see a "statement" game between the two teams is he wants the Twins to be closer to the Sox this year.

The Hunter/Burke collision was a statement game. As a baseball fan, I want one of them. And I want it to mean something.

Both teams have talked trash over the last 4 years. Inevitably the one that talks more, does less. Last year the Twins talked a lot, but didn't back it up. The W.Sox shut up, played awesomely and buried everyone.

I did happen to notice that both these games took place at the Humpdome. The Twins have had a lot of "good luck" and visiting teams a lot of "bad luck" at that place over the years

Yep. It's possible they cheat. :o: It's possible the turf has something to do with it. It's possible the roof has something to do with it. The hanging speakers, the lights, the sound system, the food... And it's possible they just play better at home.

I really can't explain it. :gulp:

Johnny Mostil
04-20-2006, 02:53 PM
The Hunter/Burke collision was a statement game. As a baseball fan, I want one of them. And I want it to mean something.

Both teams have talked trash over the last 4 years. Inevitably the one that talks more, does less. Last year the Twins talked a lot, but didn't back it up. The W.Sox shut up, played awesomely and buried everyone.

Fair enough. Though I doubt the ma-gaga law of whoever talks more does less is limited to the AL Central . . .

Iwritecode
04-20-2006, 02:54 PM
Yep. It's possible they cheat. :o: It's possible the turf has something to do with it. It's possible the roof has something to do with it. The hanging speakers, the lights, the sound system, the food... And it's possible they just play better at home.

I really can't explain it. :gulp:

I think it is/was mostly the turf and the roof. The players really knew how to use that turf to their advantage and never seemed to have a problem picking out the white ball against the white roof. Since they've changed the turf the home-field advantage has seemed to lessen a little bit...

Foulke You
04-20-2006, 06:02 PM
I think it is/was mostly the turf and the roof. The players really knew how to use that turf to their advantage and never seemed to have a problem picking out the white ball against the white roof. Since they've changed the turf the home-field advantage has seemed to lessen a little bit...
I agree, when the old "billiard felt" turf was still at the dome, that place was an absolute nightmare for a visiting team to come to play. The Twins were built to win in that place and they took advantage of it every time. They loaded up on speed and contact hitters who slapped the ball into the turf and they got turf hits there that they normally wouldn't get through in other parks.

It was not uncommon to see 3 infield type "turf hits" in a row at the Metrodome to load up the bases and cause pitcher's to labor through big jams where they really hadn't pitched all that bad. I'm not saying it was lucky, I'm just saying the Twins took advantage of their quirky ballpark as they should have. I think since the thicker NexTurf was installed, their advantage in the dome has decreased slightly as it cuts down on those turf hits they used to get. Perhaps Ma-Gaga can confirm or deny this theory since he no doubt sees more games there than we do. I'm just going by the sample size I see of the 9 or so games the Sox play there.

SoxSpeed22
04-20-2006, 06:14 PM
I remember one of the games last year that was in Minny, we ended up getting a bunch of perp hits and finally scored the winning run on a hit up the middle and Farmio said afterwards "This looks like one of the innings the Twins would have against us."
Hopefully they're done for after this year. (I speak for all except Ma-Gaga when I say this)

gobears1987
04-20-2006, 06:16 PM
Bears fans say the same thing about the 1986 Super Bowl. At some point they start making fun of you on SNL.
:wink:But, January 26, 1986 is by far the greatest day in the history of the Western World.

Johnny Mostil
04-20-2006, 06:31 PM
But, January 26, 1986 is by far the greatest day in the history of the Western World.

Hmmmm . . . January 26, 1986 . . . October 26, 2005 . . . a connection?

Foulke (or m-g), when was the NexTurf installed? It ought to be easy enough to compare home and away records for the Twins before and after . . .

Hitmen77
04-20-2006, 09:38 PM
But, January 26, 1986 at one time was considered by far the greatest day in the history of the Western World until it was surpassed by October 26, 2005.

Fixed it for you.

Sox-on-TV44
04-22-2006, 10:19 AM
Don't forget the infamous Dougie Menskrewzhfsttz telling the media that MLB should pull the All-Star game. Garland retaliated by drilling him twice.
:gulp:
Dougie M. has an even worse fate ever since that "All-Star Game" shot.


He's a Kansas City Royal,now.God really got him for that crack too!!!!!

Mr. White Sox
04-22-2006, 11:03 AM
Dougie M. has an even worse fate ever since that "All-Star Game" shot.


He's a Kansas City Royal,now.God really got him for that crack too!!!!!
The next year he won a World Series with the Red Sox. Yeah, horrible luck.

However, despite all of the supposed huge breaks the Twins got over the years, I'll always remember the play when Minnesota-version Dougie was tossing the ball from his hand to his glove, and he threw it away. The play was already over, and he threw the ball away playing a game of catch with himself. I couldn't stop laughing. If anyone has a picture of this that would be awesome.

Ol' No. 2
04-22-2006, 11:04 AM
Don't forget the infamous Dougie Menskrewzhfsttz telling the media that MLB should pull the All-Star game. Garland retaliated by drilling him twice.
:gulp:Actually, I thought Kenny had the best comeback:

"He won't have to worry about it. He won't be there."

1951Campbell
04-22-2006, 11:13 AM
Actually, I thought Kenny had the best comeback:

"He won't have to worry about it. He won't be there."

Oh, SNAP!

GoSox2K3
04-23-2006, 06:03 PM
You know, this sweep against the Twins was nice and all, but it's left me a little disappointed because we didn't have any statement wins. :rolleyes:

PaleHoseGeorge
04-23-2006, 06:12 PM
The Hunter/Burke collision was a statement game. As a baseball fan, I want one of them. And I want it to mean something.

I'm wondering if ma-gaga thinks Gardenhire and the rest of the Twins catching their plane out at O'hare this evening with their collective ass checked as baggage is enough of a statement? The Sox handed it to them.

:wink:

gobears1987
04-23-2006, 06:32 PM
The days of us fearing the Twinkies are now long gone. We beat Silva, Radke, and Santana. A trio that would usually tkae 2 out of 3 from us if not sweep us.

hawkjt
04-23-2006, 06:39 PM
I would call that a statement series.

The day they put that new turf in the dome is the day the sox started playing much better up there. Bout time they even the playing field.

So long twinkies- been good to crush ya.

ma-gaga
04-23-2006, 10:11 PM
I'm wondering if ma-gaga thinks Gardenhire and the rest of the Twins catching their plane out at O'hare this evening with their collective ass checked as baggage is enough of a statement? The Sox handed it to them.

:wink:


yeah... I got bit by the "be careful what you ask for" clause. :whiner:

:gulp:

beckett21
04-23-2006, 10:18 PM
yeah... I got bit by the "be careful what you ask for" clause. :whiner:

:gulp:
It will be even more of a statement when the Sox do it up at the Hump Dump. Hide the women and children. :redneck

Sorry, ma. That was a vicious beating your boys just took. Nice to see you around though. :cool:

ma-gaga
04-23-2006, 11:24 PM
That was a vicious beating your boys just took. Nice to see you around though. :cool:
I'm moving this weekend. The "new" house doesn't have cable tv (or internet :o:) yet, so I didn't get to see more than 6 total innings this weekend.

From the recaps, and boxscores, that's probably a good thing. My team has one of those offenses' that suck. And the pitching simply isn't there. Not a good combo.

:cool:

beckett21
04-23-2006, 11:34 PM
I'm moving this weekend. The "new" house doesn't have cable tv (or internet :o:) yet, so I didn't get to see more than 6 total innings this weekend.

From the recaps, and boxscores, that's probably a good thing. My team has one of those offenses' that suck. And the pitching simply isn't there. Not a good combo.

:cool:

From your perspective, you didn't miss much. :D:

Congrats on the move. :gulp: