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View Full Version : Help Needed: Baseball Rule, Is it a Hit or Not?


Rocky Soprano
04-18-2006, 01:29 PM
Say a ball is hit into the gap. The batter is at 2B and without stopping he sees that the fielder HAS NOT YET touched the ball so he decides to go for 3B. The fielder grabs the ball while the runner is between bases and throws him out at 3B. Does the hitter get credited with a hit or not?

Chicken Dinner
04-18-2006, 01:34 PM
Say a ball is hit into the gap. The Runner is at 2B and without stopping he sees that the fielder HAS NOT YET touched the ball so he decides to go for 3B. The fielder grabs the ball while the runner is between bases and throws him out at 3B. Does the hitter get credited with a hit or not?

I'm assuming the "runner" is the batter, so if the batter gets pegged trying to stretch a double into a triple, it is no hit.

Luke
04-18-2006, 01:35 PM
As long as the batter has safely made it to first before the runner is thrown out then yes, it's scored as a hit.

Rocky Soprano
04-18-2006, 01:36 PM
I'm assuming the "runner" is the batter, so if the batter gets pegged trying to stretch a double into a triple, it is no hit.

Sorry I meant to say the batter.

Luke
04-18-2006, 01:37 PM
I'm assuming the "runner" is the batter, so if the batter gets pegged trying to stretch a double into a triple, it is no hit.
Actually it's scored a double.

Rocky Soprano
04-18-2006, 01:37 PM
As long as the batter has safely made it to first before the runner is thrown out then yes, it's scored as a hit.

See that's what I thought, thats as long as they reach first then its a hit. But I was told that as long as the fielder hasnt touched the ball and if the batter keeps running, if he gets thrown out trying to advance that its not a hit.

RKMeibalane
04-18-2006, 01:38 PM
I'm assuming the "runner" is the batter, so if the batter gets pegged trying to stretch a double into a triple, it is no hit.

I don't think that's correct. IIRC, if a batter is thrown out trying to take the extra base, he still receives credit for the number of bases he reached safely. If you'd like an example, two years ago today, Frank Thomas was thrown out trying to stretch a single into a double because he pulled his hamstring, but was given credit for the hit.

Luke
04-18-2006, 01:43 PM
See that's what I thought, thats as long as they reach first then its a hit. But I was told that as long as the fielder hasnt touched the ball and if the batter keeps running, if he gets thrown out trying to advance that its not a hit.

Some score keepers do it diffrently. I've seen pop flys that were never touched scored as an error because there was a no-no in progress. In the last 10 years or so, balls that were clearly errors have been scored as hits. For the most part a batter is given credit for the last base he reaches safely.

drewcifer
04-18-2006, 01:45 PM
That would be scored a double. Becomes official when he reaches 2nd and the ball has touched the ground (or fence), in fair territory. (Touching a fielder doesn't matter if I'm reading this correctly.)

BASE HITS
10.05
A base hit shall be scored in the following cases: (a) When a batter reaches first base (or any succeeding base) safely on a fair ball which settles on the ground or touches a fence before being touched by a fielder, or which clears a fence; (b) When a batter reaches first base safely on a fair ball hit with such force, or so slowly, that any fielder attempting to make a play with it has no opportunity to do so; NOTE: A hit shall be scored if the fielder attempting to handle the ball cannot make a play, even if such fielder deflects the ball from or cuts off another fielder who could have put out a runner. (c) When a batter reaches first base safely on a fair ball which takes an unnatural bounce so that a fielder cannot handle it with ordinary effort, or which touches the pitcher's plate or any base, (including home plate), before being touched by a fielder and bounces so that a fielder cannot handle it with ordinary effort; (d) When a batter reaches first base safely on a fair ball which has not been touched by a fielder and which is in fair territory when it reaches the outfield unless in the scorer's judgment it could have been handled with ordinary effort; (e) When a fair ball which has not been touched by a fielder touches a runner or an umpire. EXCEPTION: Do not score a hit when a runner is called out for having been touched by an Infield Fly; (f) When a fielder unsuccessfully attempts to put out a preceding runner, and in the scorer's judgment the batter runner would not have been put out at first base by ordinary effort. NOTE: In applying the above rules, always give the batter the benefit of the doubt. A safe course to follow is to score a hit when exceptionally good fielding of a ball fails to result in a putout.

Link (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_scorer_10.jsp)

ondafarm
04-18-2006, 01:45 PM
The only exception to that I can think of is if any runner is forced out at any base creating the third out, then no hit is awarded.

For example, bases loaded, two out, batter rips the ball into the gap but the man at second falls between second and third. If the runner is forced at third, then no run scores and no hit is awarded even if the batter is standing on second.

I saw this happen except the runner on first rounded second and was purposely off the bag, the shortstop tagged him out instead of throwing to third for the force, so the run counted and a hit, actually a single, was awarded.


Clear as mud, right?

daveeym
04-18-2006, 02:28 PM
The only exception to that I can think of is if any runner is forced out at any base creating the third out, then no hit is awarded.

For example, bases loaded, two out, batter rips the ball into the gap but the man at second falls between second and third. If the runner is forced at third, then no run scores and no hit is awarded even if the batter is standing on second.

I saw this happen except the runner on first rounded second and was purposely off the bag, the shortstop tagged him out instead of throwing to third for the force, so the run counted and a hit, actually a single, was awarded.


Clear as mud, right? Yes, but I have a question. So I take it that this was a strategy decision. For whatever reason the force out would have occurred? So I'm guessing the runner basically distracted the shortstop and turned the play into a mini-rundown to allow the run to score? That's a stupid shortstop. So who was running to third? a 1 legged 300 lb dh?

Mickster
04-18-2006, 03:08 PM
Say a ball is hit into the gap. The batter is at 2B and without stopping he sees that the fielder HAS NOT YET touched the ball so he decides to go for 3B. The fielder grabs the ball while the runner is between bases and throws him out at 3B. Does the hitter get credited with a hit or not?

He is credited with a double.

HotelWhiteSox
04-18-2006, 03:38 PM
Yes, it's a double, and if he's thrown out at third, he's out 8-6 on the throw, but the hit still counts

TDog
04-18-2006, 03:46 PM
The only exception to that I can think of is if any runner is forced out at any base creating the third out, then no hit is awarded. ...

It doesn't have to be the third out. If a runner is forced out ahead of the batter-runner, the batter has hit into a fielder's choice, regardless of whether he hit it into the gap. But if it is apparent the runner would have be forced out if the batted ball had hit him before passing a fielder, it the runner would be out and the batter would get credit for a hit.

drewcifer
04-18-2006, 04:03 PM
Yes, it's a double, and if he's thrown out at third, he's out 8-6 on the throw, but the hit still counts

This is correct.

All this nonsense about force outs is impossible, if a batter reaches 2nd base (which was the original question).

Even in the bases loaded scenario, this would mean the man on 1st at the time of the hit would have to fall down and essentially past out and then come to between 2nd and 3rd and get thrown out if the hitter reached 2nd. Either way, it's a tag out against a runner caught between bases and the batter still gets his double.

gbergman
04-18-2006, 04:21 PM
It is a hit
1)he made it to first safley without an error on the play
2)It is ruled a double 8-6 so he gets a hit a double and gets out

ondafarm
04-18-2006, 06:30 PM
Yes, but I have a question. So I take it that this was a strategy decision. For whatever reason the force out would have occurred? So I'm guessing the runner basically distracted the shortstop and turned the play into a mini-rundown to allow the run to score? That's a stupid shortstop. So who was running to third? a 1 legged 300 lb dh?

The guy on second (at the start of the play) had gotten two thirds of the way when he went down. I thought it was a hammy but he never came back from it. It was the guy I replaced as regular catcher. I was at third and ran home easily. The guy from first realized that if they forced or even tagged the now downed catcher as opposed to tagging him out after second, then my run wouldn't count. The batter could easily have been at second on the hit had the catcher not gone down.

My run counted because the guy from first (our pitcher) managed to convince the shortstop that it'd be easier to tag him than throw to the third-baseman. Like you said, a dumb shortstop.

SouthSide_HitMen
04-18-2006, 06:42 PM
It is a hit
1)he made it to first safley without an error on the play
2)It is ruled a double 8-6 so he gets a hit a double and gets out

Isn't it a double, fielders choice 8-5 (or 8-6-5 if the shortstop cuts off the Centerfielder's throw)?