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SouthSide_HitMen
04-18-2006, 12:11 PM
The 2005 World Championship Squad made the season one White Sox fans will always remember. Something most fans do not know about the 2005 season is the fact that the White Sox jumped three teams in the all time standings (since 1901 when the original 16 American & National league teams were considered the major leagues).

Here are the updated standings since 1901:

New York Yankees (1) 9192-7029 .567
San Francisco Giants (2) 8763-7494 .539
Los Angeles Dodgers (3) 8492-7766 .522
St. Louis Cardinals 8436-7819 .519
Boston Red Sox 8358-7884 .515
Pittsburgh Pirates 8343-7909 .513
Cleveland Indians 8302-7946 .511
Chicago White Sox 8210-8020 .506
Detroit Tigers 8221-8050 .505
Chicago Cubs 8214-8052 .505
Arizona Diamondbacks (4) 652-644 .503
Cincinnati Reds 8180-8092 .503
Houston Astros (5) 3497-3503 .500
Toronto Blue Jays (6) 2258-2315 .494
Kansas City Royals (7) 2872-2983 .491
Anaheim Angels (8) 3507-3653 .490
Oakland A's (9) 7870-8343 .485
Washington Nationals (10) 2836-3024 .484
Atlanta Braves (11) 7847-8381 .484
Minnesota Twins (12) 7788-8448 .480
Baltimore Orioles (13) 7742-8487 .477
New York Mets (5) 3311-3677 .474
Florida Marlins (14) 963-1076 .472
Milwaukee Brewers (15) 2761-3100 .471
Seattle Mariners (6) 2149-2424 .470
Texas Rangers (16) 3336-3807 .467
Colorado Rockies (14) 949-1094 .465
Philadelphia Phillies 7471-8762 .460
San Diego Padres (7) 2693-3174 .459
Tampa Bay Devil Rays (4) 518-775 .401

(Relocations - Team name changes are not included)
(1) - Baltimore Orioles (1901 & 1902)
(2) - New York Giants (1901-1957)
(3) - Brooklyn Dodgers (1901-1957)
(4) - Began play in 1998
(5) - Began play in 1962
(6) - began play in 1977
(7) - Began play in 1969
(8) - Began play in 1961
(9) - Philadelphia A's (1901-1954) & Kansas City A's (1955-1967)
(10) - Montreal Expos (1969-2004). Began play in 1969.
(11) - Boston Braves (1901-1952), Milwaukee Braves (1953-1965)
(12) - Washington Senators (1901-1960)
(13) - Milwaukee Brewers (1901), St. Louis Browns (1902-1953)
(14) - Began play in 1993
(15) - Seattle Pilots (1969). Began play in 1969.
(16) - Washington Senators (1961-1971)

I think I have a very good chance of seeing the White Sox pass Cleveland and Pittsburgh on this list. We better hold off the Tigers and Cubs (about 10 & 15 games back respectively).

It will be tough to pass Boston or the Cardinals due to the fact they should always be one of the top revenue teams. It would be very, very hard to catch any of the three New York / former New York teams.

miker
04-18-2006, 12:22 PM
Well I guess this settles the "who's better" debate...wait a minute, Cub fans aren't swayed by facts.

JorgeFabregas
04-18-2006, 12:26 PM
A .567 winning percentage over the history of a franchise...that is ungodly.

IlliniSox4Life
04-18-2006, 12:26 PM
Well I guess this settles the "who's better" debate...wait a minute, Cub fans aren't swayed by facts.

Well, while I do think we are better, I hardly think a .001 winning percentage advantage proves it. I think there are better arguments to be made than that.

soxfan13
04-18-2006, 12:35 PM
Well I guess this settles the "who's better" debate...wait a minute, Cub fans aren't swayed by facts.

They wouldnt look at the win percent they would see they have actually won a few more then the Sox:rolleyes:

SouthSide_HitMen
04-18-2006, 12:46 PM
They wouldnt look at the win percent they would see they have actually won a few more then the Sox:rolleyes:

Not after 2006. :cool:

Hitmen77
04-18-2006, 02:24 PM
Sorry to nitpick, but the Blue Jays and Mariners began play in 1977.

Interesting that the Phillies have, by far, the worst all-time winning pct. (.460) of any of the original 16 teams. They're 300 games behind the next worst original franchise (the Baltimore Orioles/St. Louis Browns). :o:

batmanZoSo
04-18-2006, 02:43 PM
Sorry to nitpick, but the Blue Jays and Mariners began play in 1977.

Interesting that the Phillies have, by far, the worst all-time winning pct. (.460) of any of the original 16 teams. They're 300 games behind the next worst original franchise (the Baltimore Orioles/St. Louis Browns). :o:


And only 1 world series, although it was fairly recent (1980). If you're talking the worst overall team in history, it's gotta be the Phillies.

SouthSide_HitMen
04-18-2006, 03:04 PM
Interesting that the Phillies have, by far, the worst all-time winning pct. (.460) of any of the original 16 teams. They're 300 games behind the next worst original franchise (the Baltimore Orioles/St. Louis Browns). :o:


Another interesting comparison are between teams "born" during the same year.

Team, W-L, Games Back

1961
Anaheim Angels 3507-3653 ---
Texas Rangers 3336-3807 162 1/2


1962
Houston Astros 3497-3503 ---
New York Mets 3311-3677 180 :(:


1969
Kansas City Royals 2872-2983 ---
Washington Nationals 2836-3024 38 1/2
Milwaukee Brewers 2761-3100 114
San Diego Padres 2693-3174 185


1993
Florida Marlins 963-1076 --
Colorado Rockies 949-1094 16

1998
Arizona Diamondbacks 652-644 -
Tampa Bay Devil Rays 518-775 132 1/2 :o:

The "class" of 1993 is the worst. Arizona's 132 1/2 game advantage is amazing considering it was earned over 8 seasons. Colorado and Washington / Montreal has the best chance of taking over first with Colorado having a very good chance this season.

VASoxfan1
04-18-2006, 03:23 PM
this thread makes my day, mainly because one of my roommates is a phillies fan whose main argument when discussing sports is, "your teams suck......shut up" not hte most articulate person, haha.

1993
Florida Marlins 963-1076 --
Colorado Rockies 949-1094 16

to the marlins credit, they do have two world series titles

Hitmen77
04-18-2006, 08:09 PM
And only 1 world series, although it was fairly recent (1980). If you're talking the worst overall team in history, it's gotta be the Phillies.

And yet, it was the 5-time world champion A's who had to leave town.

gbergman
04-18-2006, 11:51 PM
wow i didnt realize the tigers had been decent all along

PKalltheway
04-19-2006, 12:26 AM
Although the standings start as of 1901, didn't the Giants become the first team in baseball and professional sports to get to 10,000 all time wins last year IIRC?

PKalltheway
04-19-2006, 12:31 AM
1998
Arizona Diamondbacks 652-644 -
Tampa Bay Devil Rays 518-775 132 1/2 :o:


To add to that, the D-Rays have never had a winning season as opposed to Arizona, who's only had three losing seasons IIRC (1998, 2004, 2005).

dcb56
04-19-2006, 01:03 AM
wow i didnt realize the tigers had been decent all along

The Tigers were one of the premier teams in baseball until about 10-15 years ago. To show how far they've fallen, at the conclusion of the 1993 season, their last winning campaign, the Tigers all-time record was 7456-6938, good for a .518 winning percentage. Since then the Tigers have gone a woeful 765-1112.

Corlose 15
04-19-2006, 01:18 AM
And yet, it was the 5-time world champion A's who had to leave town.

Yeah, I thought of that when someone put the list of championships by teams together. I guess the A's had some rough times in the 50's but based on those winning pct. the Phillies have had a rough time for most of their history.

Another thing thats interesting is the idea that the A's have something like 9 WS titles as an organization but a winning pct. of .485, yet a team like the Indians has a .505 pct. but haven't won since 1948.

Corlose 15
04-19-2006, 01:18 AM
And yet, it was the 5-time world champion A's who had to leave town.

Yeah, I thought of that when someone put the list of championships by teams together. I guess the A's had some rough times in the 50's but based on those winning pct. the Phillies have had a rough time for most of their history.

Another thing thats interesting is the idea that the A's have something like 9 WS titles as an organization but a winning pct. of .485, yet a team like the Indians has a .505 pct. but haven't won since 1948.

Corlose 15
04-19-2006, 01:18 AM
And yet, it was the 5-time world champion A's who had to leave town.

Yeah, I thought of that when someone put the list of championships by teams together. I guess the A's had some rough times in the 50's but based on those winning pct. the Phillies have had a rough time for most of their history.

Another thing thats interesting is the idea that the A's have something like 9 WS titles as an organization but a winning pct. of .485, yet a team like the Indians has a .505 pct. but haven't won since 1948.

SouthSide_HitMen
04-19-2006, 11:33 AM
Although the standings start as of 1901, didn't the Giants become the first team in baseball and professional sports to get to 10,000 all time wins last year IIRC?

Yes. You can get the "all time" all time list here - http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/

The 1901 season marks the start of "modern" baseball for most historians. The White Sox and other American Association teams played in various cities (we came from St. Paul, MN) until 1900 in the Western / American League (considered a "minor league" through 1900).

The 16 "original" teams from 1901 forward (several moved, most changed nicknames at some point for a few seasons) form the basis of comparison which is why I think those standings are better to compare teams. Of course a team who played 25 more years than the 8 American League teams will have more wins and since they were the survivors and usually the best among all the teams (many teams came and went during the first three decades - many were financially unsound and it wasn't rare to see .200 & .300 teams every season) and thus were able to bulk up their stats against very week (non major league) competition. A modern comparison would be a league of the Yankees, Boston, White Sox, a few .500 teams (say the Orioles) and 4 or 5 Marlins and Royals squads with a Colorado and Tampa in the mix). In other words 3 or 4 strong teams and many weak teams with maybe 1 or 2 average teams.