PDA

View Full Version : *Official* 4/14 Postgame Thread


Madvora
04-15-2006, 12:02 AM
I guess I'll start it then...


Anderson really choked in some big at bats tonight. That's sucks because I'm really rooting for the guy this year.
However, that wasn't the problem. Big pitching meltdowns by Vazquez and Politte didn't help either.

FloridaSox
04-15-2006, 12:04 AM
Cotts hasn't exactly been lights out so far this season.

Madvora
04-15-2006, 12:05 AM
Right now the Sox don't look like they're headed for the team ERA title.

infohawk
04-15-2006, 12:05 AM
I didn't get to see the game because it was a WCIU broadcast:angry:. I did see the highlights and it seemed like the Jays got a ton of big hits down the lines. Almost an inordinate amount. I guess what I wondering is if Sox pitching was that bad or do the Jays deserve some credit for terrific hitting? I noticed that they hit Vazquez, Politte and Cotts, so it wasn't just one guy giving it up. Were they all bad tonight, or did the Jays just bring their hitting shoes (and maybe the pitching was just a little bad)?

Fabs
04-15-2006, 12:06 AM
Ozzie should have taken Vazquez out after the first set of boos. The only reason he got us out of the inning was the tag out at home, no thanks to Vazquez. Guy needs some polish.
I never leave before the final out, but this game was just too painful and I have to get up early tomorrow. Had to get my 2 cents in! First game for me... 0-1, 1 churro

stl_sox_fan
04-15-2006, 12:06 AM
Interesting stat. Nearly 40 hits surrendered over the last two games. Coop needs to have the pitching staff running wind sprints.

ohiosoxfan12
04-15-2006, 12:08 AM
Something really needs to be done with Anderson, he looks horrible. I don't think that it is just a slump either, because he strikes out all the time. Maybe some time in the minors would be him come good. He is defiently not a playmaker that we need.

JB98
04-15-2006, 12:10 AM
Vazquez looked good for four innings, and then the roof caved in. Very perplexing. Our right-handed relief is a question mark right now. McCarthy is throwing well, but after that, we're rolling the dice. Jenks has been a bit spotty, and Politte is struggling. Hopefully, Buerhle will get the pitching staff back on track tomorrow.

On a brighter note, we did score seven runs on an night where Thome didn't do much. Konerko is starting to round into form, and Dye has looked much better at the plate the last couple of days. Crede is swinging well also.

Madvora
04-15-2006, 12:11 AM
Something really needs to be done with Anderson, he looks horrible. I don't think that it is just a slump either, because he strikes out all the time. Maybe some time in the minors would be him come good. He is defiently not a playmaker that we need. I didn't really pay much attention to spring training this year, but Hawk was saying that he looked great then and that his timing is off now. Did he really look that good in spring?

stl_sox_fan
04-15-2006, 12:11 AM
Something really needs to be done with Anderson, he looks horrible. I don't think that it is just a slump either, because he strikes out all the time. Maybe some time in the minors would be him come good. He is defiently not a playmaker that we need.

I just pray I don't hear the phrase..."Man I miss Borchard"!
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:T5SWC8b5Jms7DM:www.angelfire.com/ky2/bbautos/zborchard.jpg
From Seattle... I stab at thee!

A.T. Money
04-15-2006, 12:12 AM
Anderson crapped out in 3 ABs with a man in scoring position. Twice with bases loaded and less than 2 outs. Ouch!

Jermaine's overthrow hurt because the next batter would have grounded into a DP, and it would have prevented all that 5th inning bleeding.

We could have scored 10+ tonight. We had them up against the ropes a few times and couldn't do anything (see Anderson).

Oh well, I'll take 4-game winning streaks. Lets start a new one tomorrow. Wear the white uniforms tomorrow so we don't cook out there.

tschneid83
04-15-2006, 12:12 AM
:angry:....pitchers.... get the ball down.... hit your spots

Dont know the avg. runs per game but if you told me the sox were going to get 5 or 6 runs (around that or whatever it is) per game I would say we would be 11-0 right know. We have a better team on the field we just need to find a way to make it click......

JB98
04-15-2006, 12:13 AM
Something really needs to be done with Anderson, he looks horrible. I don't think that it is just a slump either, because he strikes out all the time. Maybe some time in the minors would be him come good. He is defiently not a playmaker that we need.

If we send Anderson down, who plays CF? Mackowiak is NOT an everyday CF. For now, let's ride the storm out with BA.

infohawk
04-15-2006, 12:13 AM
The first couple of weeks of this season are turing out to be very interesting in that there has been no real discernable pattern emerging from any one team. Take the AL Central for example. The Tribe and Tigers jump out to a lead, but then drop a few. The Sox and Twins drop a few, but then go on winning streaks and are now at or around .500. The Twins offense looked really bad, but then they sweep the A's while scoring quite a few runs. The Central is basically bunched together right now.

I still say that we as fans must avoid the temptation to measure this year up against last year. Even championship teams don't traditionally jump out to the kind of division lead we had last year. It was a rarity. I can realistically see the central kind of bunched together for awhile because it has become a much more competitive division. The key is to stay right in it until July or so and then really turn it on.

cbotnyse
04-15-2006, 12:13 AM
Right now the Sox don't look like they're headed for the team ERA title.
yeah very true....we are giving up runs in bunches.....the staff needs to pick it up!

MRKARNO
04-15-2006, 12:14 AM
I just pray I don't hear the phrase..."Man I miss Borchard"!
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:T5SWC8b5Jms7DM:www.angelfire.com/ky2/bbautos/zborchard.jpg
From Seattle... I stab at thee!

Tonight's performance by our bullpen almost made me miss Luis Vizcaino and Damaso Marte

Madvora
04-15-2006, 12:15 AM
If we send Anderson down, who plays CF? Mackowiak is NOT an everyday CF. For now, let's ride the storm out with BA. I think people are already calling for Sweeney or Owens up here.
I don't think that's even possible yet, but Anderson sure does have a lot of work to do. God... and I was thinking about him being our #2 hitter when Ozzie wanted to move Iguchi around. Whoops!
Then again, he'd still be a better lead off hitter than what we've currently got.

ohiosoxfan12
04-15-2006, 12:16 AM
Could we possibly move poeple around so that Cintron could be an everyday player and get rid of Anderson? He has been looking pretty good. I don't know just a thought.....

Madvora
04-15-2006, 12:17 AM
Could we possibly move poeple around so that Cintron could be an everyday player? He has been looking pretty good. I don't know just a thought.....
That's how Uribe got his job.

JB98
04-15-2006, 12:19 AM
I think people are already calling for Sweeney or Owens up here.
I don't think that's even possible yet, but Anderson sure does have a lot of work to do. God... and I was thinking about him being our #2 hitter when Ozzie wanted to move Iguchi around. Whoops!
Then again, he'd still be a better lead off hitter than what we've currently got.

Sweeney and Owens are both below the Mendoza line in the minors. I don't think they are reasonable alternatives at this stage. Anderson is looking bad; I can't argue that. But I'm not ready to give up on him. Despite his struggles, we've still managed to score 20 runs the last two games. It isn't like we're counting on him for big run production.

infohawk
04-15-2006, 12:19 AM
Vazquez looked good for four innings, and then the roof caved in. Very perplexing. I don't know if this is the reason, but a couple of the guys on BBTN (I know we really don't care for them) suggested that many of the pitchers who pitched in the WBC have been erratic to start the season. I'm just wondering if Vazquez still isn't quite there with his pitch count yet. He pitched pretty deep into the last game, but perhaps his arm didn't bounce back all the way. Johann Santana sure started poorly. It explains Vazquez and maybe Freddy (but not Garland). Just a possibility. I will say that, other than health issues, I have absolutely no concerns about our starting pitchers over a 162 game season.

tschneid83
04-15-2006, 12:21 AM
sorry for being a jerk but why are we talking about how our lineup is hitting. our pitchers gave up 22 runs in the last two games.

RadioheadRocks
04-15-2006, 12:22 AM
"We need a hero... We're holding out for a Greatest American Hero..."
http://epguides.com/GreatestAmericanHero/cast.jpg

HomeFish
04-15-2006, 12:22 AM
Brian Anderson had 2 chances to break the game wide open. Choked both times. At least some of the blame lies there. Whatever you do, don't blame Pablo and Cintron -- they played well above their heads.

I had the misfortune of being at this game. I knew it wouldn't end well when I met Southpaw in the gift shop and he refused to hug me. That's never a good omen.

infohawk
04-15-2006, 12:22 AM
Tonight's performance by our bullpen almost made me miss Luis Vizcaino and Damaso Marte
I don't know, I saw Marte give up what I thought was a 3-run homer or grand slam yesterday or the day before. Yikes!

southsideirish71
04-15-2006, 12:22 AM
They should call Walt Hrniak for another one on one hitting session for Anderson like they did last year with Uribe. He needs to shorten up his swing and simipifly his movement through the strikezone. Every pitcher is throwing him low and away and he is pulling off everything, fouling pitches in the strikezone off, and missing pitches low and in the dirt.

A.T. Money
04-15-2006, 12:24 AM
Baseball is about momentum. We could have buried them before their onslaught. We failed at that.

No excuse for our pitching, but Toronto can pour it on like us offensively. They're good.

They came through when they needed to. We didn't.

Frankfan4life
04-15-2006, 12:25 AM
Ozuna and Crede had good games. It was good to see Paulie and Dye hit homers. Otherwise, the game totally sucked. The Sox committed two errors, left 11 men on base, gave up 13 runs and 18 hits. What an embarrassment! I hope the Blue Jays wore themselves out today and will have nothing left tomorrow and I also hope Buehrle is on his game.

infohawk
04-15-2006, 12:25 AM
Every pitcher is throwing him low and away and he is pulling off everything, fouling pitches in the strikezone off, and missing pitches low and in the dirt.
That's interesting because I always thought that was the book on how to get Aaron out too. Aaron never could lay off the pitch located down and away, especially sliders. It's how to get Crede out too, but Joe has gotten a little better at handling that pitch. Those are the ones he typically pops up weakly on the infield.

esbrechtel
04-15-2006, 12:25 AM
i think our offense is doing well....hawk did mention that the jays had the best team batting avg in the american league....i also personally, feel that dyes poor throw lead to the 5th inning bleeding...I am not defending anderson believe me i cant stand watching anyone go 0fer...on the bright side paulie hitting well and Joe Crede 4 for 4!

JB98
04-15-2006, 12:26 AM
I don't know if this is the reason, but a couple of the guys on BBTN (I know we really don't care for them) suggested that many of the pitchers who pitched in the WBC have been erratic to start the season. I'm just wondering if Vazquez still isn't quite there with his pitch count yet. He pitched pretty deep into the last game, but perhaps his arm didn't bounce back all the way. Johann Santana sure started poorly. It explains Vazquez and maybe Freddy (but not Garland). Just a possibility. I will say that, other than health issues, I have absolutely no concerns about our starting pitchers over a 162 game season.

It's an interesting theory, but who knows how much validity it has? I agree that starting pitching is the least of our worries. As long as we're healthy, we'll be OK. We've already seen good things from four of our five guys. I think Garland will be fine. Our bullpen is my main concern, and I'm not ready to sound the alarm bells just yet on that either.

A.T. Money
04-15-2006, 12:27 AM
People see Anderson as first-round pedigree, but I haven't seen that ever. He seems very flat-footed when he plays. He doesn't have a lot of plate coverage. He has a slow swing and it's not smooth.

Konerko has a very sweet right-handed swing. Anderson should take notes.

Viva Medias B's
04-15-2006, 12:27 AM
I was there until the mid 8th. Ugh. The boo birds were out in force for BA tonight.

infohawk
04-15-2006, 12:28 AM
i think our offense is doing well....hawk did mention that the jays had the best team batting avg in the american league
I'm not surprised. In all seriousness, the Jays seemed to be painting the foul lines on the highlights I saw. They were doing a good job of hitting the ball where it was pitched. They looked like a club full of "professional hitters."

JB98
04-15-2006, 12:29 AM
People see Anderson as first-round pedigree, but I haven't seen that ever. He seems very flat-footed when he plays. He doesn't have a lot of plate coverage. He has a slow swing and it's not smooth.

Konerko has a very sweet right-handed swing. Anderson should take notes.

I don't think Anderson knows the strike zone real well. He chases a lot of pitcher's pitches and puts himself behind in the count a lot.

A.T. Money
04-15-2006, 12:29 AM
I was there until the mid 8th. Ugh. The boo birds were out in force for BA tonight.

Of course there are boo birds. We're 1-3 at home.

I think our park works against us. It's a bandbox and although we can mash it, I think having home dimensions like Comerica would suit our pitching strengths much greater.

A.T. Money
04-15-2006, 12:30 AM
I don't think Anderson knows the strike zone real well. He chases a lot of pitcher's pitches and puts himself behind in the count a lot.

And when he's not chasing, he watches pitches right down the middle.

He's totally inbetween right now.

Frankfan4life
04-15-2006, 12:30 AM
I just pray I don't hear the phrase..."Man I miss Borchard"!
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:T5SWC8b5Jms7DM:www.angelfire.com/ky2/bbautos/zborchard.jpg
From Seattle... I stab at thee!I hate to say this, but I did think about him. :redface:

southsideirish71
04-15-2006, 12:31 AM
That's interesting because I always thought that was the book on how to get Aaron out too. Aaron never could lay off the pitch located down and away, especially sliders. It's how to get Crede out too, but Joe has gotten a little better at handling that pitch. Those are the ones he typically pops up weakly on the infield.

When a hitter tries to pull and outside pitch thats what happens. If you stride towards the pitchers plate and keep your hands back you make good contact in the hitting zone. When you cheat a bit, and start to turn on the ball trying to get extension and its outside, you strike the ball with a bad angle and the ball either goes straight up, or you roll your wrists over and dribble it to SS or 3rd. If you watch how most opposing pitchers approach our right handed hitters they start outside, then move further way.

Rudy Law
04-15-2006, 12:33 AM
I only have 1 thing to say about the Brian Anderson problem.....Do you think we can revisit that whole Ken Griffey Jr. thing?....A 3-4-5-6 of Thome-Konerko-Griffey Jr.- Dye would be real good...

RadioheadRocks
04-15-2006, 12:34 AM
When a hitter tries to pull and outside pitch thats what happens. If you stride towards the pitchers plate and keep your hands back you make good contact in the hitting zone. When you cheat a bit, and start to turn on the ball trying to get extension and its outside, you strike the ball with a bad angle and the ball either goes straight up, or you roll your wrists over and dribble it to SS or 3rd. If you watch how most opposing pitchers approach our right handed hitters they start outside, then move further way.


Hmmmm, sounds like a job for Dave Gallagher's STRIDE TUTOR!

infohawk
04-15-2006, 12:36 AM
People see Anderson as first-round pedigree, but I haven't seen that ever. He seems very flat-footed when he plays. He doesn't have a lot of plate coverage. He has a slow swing and it's not smooth.

Konerko has a very sweet right-handed swing. Anderson should take notes. I appreciate your concerns, but I would hold off on judging Anderson too harshly until June or July. He's only been a major league starter for about two weeks. The light may click on, but we won't know if he is yanked too quickly. It is exceedingly rare for a young guy to come in and not struggle. Those who don't are the exception, not the rule. This offense is good enough to absorb Anderson in the 9-hole. Our staff won't allow too many shootouts throughout the season. Seven runs wins most games for us.

Besides, my greater concern is with the bullpen. I know one thing though. The Sox have a huge advantage if we need to improve the pen at the trading deadline. We have something many, many teams covet. An "extra" starting pitcher. If we need to, KW can upgrade the bullpen at the deadline. The success of this team won't depend on Brian Anderson's batting average.

infohawk
04-15-2006, 12:39 AM
Of course there are boo birds. We're 1-3 at home.

I think our park works against us. It's a bandbox and although we can mash it, I think having home dimensions like Comerica would suit our pitching strengths much greater.
I don't know, we did win a World Championship in that park!:tongue:

ndu3t4
04-15-2006, 12:41 AM
Javier seemed great tonight. I liked his breaking ball (except the one to Hillinbrand) and he was jamming guys pretty well. He only made a few mistakes, but they got crushed. Glaus just hit a good pitch. The guy before him flicked his bat at a low and away breaking ball. Javier has good stuff, it's just when he makes mistakes, they get hit hard.

Stick with Brian, besides a few games last year, he really hasn't seen that much MLB pitching. He'll be fine.

Cliff needs to learn how to keep the ball down, I'm confident in all our reliever except for him.

Otherwise, I think we're in good shape. It's unfair to expect the staff to compare to last year. If you look at it objectivly, we have one of the best 1-2-3 punches in baseball. Jon needs some work, but he should be okay. If Vasquez can keep the mistakes to a minimum, he should be good too. And if either of these guys can't get it done, we have Nails to step up and fill the role. We have 6 guys that, based on what they have shown, can be the ace of any staff. Let's just give them time to get their stuff together.

michned
04-15-2006, 12:44 AM
I didn't really pay much attention to spring training this year, but Hawk was saying that he looked great then and that his timing is off now. Did he really look that good in spring?
I saw a lot of games in March, and yep, he looked much better. But Ozzie moved him around the batting order all spring (1,2,7,8,9).

We all need patience. This lineup is good enough to carry him. Obviously, he's no Freddie Lynn, circa 1975, but he's got way too much potential to give up on him after two weeks.

Chips
04-15-2006, 12:45 AM
Bullpen looks horrible, I've got nothing good to say about it.

billyvsox
04-15-2006, 12:46 AM
I was waiting to hear someone finally say "our offense is good enough to put up with Anderson in the 9-hole"

You never know on a given night what part of the line-up will be needed to win the game. Tonight is was the 9-spot and he failed miserably...leaving 8 men on base over 3 ab's.

No one's offense is ever good enough to absorb a weak spot (Your only as good as the weakest link theory) and tonight it hurt us. Not to mention what it probably did to Anderson psychologically.

Hey, Ii live in Arizona and have followed his career since he was in college at U of A, and he can become a good player, but he needs to work and and a demotion to the minors might be what snaps him out of this. I really feel he
was given the job without ever earning it, because he was a No 1 pick targeted for 2006.

CLR01
04-15-2006, 12:54 AM
I hate to say this, but I did think about him. :redface:



I hope it was in that "Man Borchard would have looked just as bad" kind of way.

Lip Man 1
04-15-2006, 12:57 AM
This team has been wildly inconsistent and I don't know how it's going to shake out yet...

The starting pitching has been sporadic. Great one day, hammered the next... :o:

The bullpen has been bad. Two blown games and Politte is awful with no movement or speed anymore on his pitches...

The team has lost two games where they scored at least seven runs...:o:

They have had three games where they get a fairly comfortable lead and can't hold it...

And they haven't played well at home. 1-3 to start the year. Remember last June - August where they slumped badly at Comiskey Park.

Maybe it's all the new faces trying to blend in, I don't know, but like I said I can't figure these guys out yet. They need to start putting things together.

Lip

Uncle_Patrick
04-15-2006, 12:59 AM
I only have 1 thing to say about the Brian Anderson problem.....Do you think we can revisit that whole Ken Griffey Jr. thing?....A 3-4-5-6 of Thome-Konerko-Griffey Jr.- Dye would be real good...


Isn't Griffey hurt again? Besides, I don't think he wants to come to Chicago.

salty99
04-15-2006, 01:07 AM
Look on the bright side everyone! I saw Lisa Dergan at the game!!

eurotrash35
04-15-2006, 01:07 AM
all I've got to say is that tonight I'm glad I don't get WCIU

Frankfan4life
04-15-2006, 01:08 AM
I hope it was in that "Man Borchard would have looked just as bad" kind of way.No, I didn't. I actually pictured him hitting the ball to the warning track in the third inning. Damn you BA! :angry:

I promise my next thoughts will be of Rowand instead.

buehrle4cy05
04-15-2006, 01:09 AM
Tonight's performance by our bullpen almost made me miss Luis Vizcaino and Damaso Marte

I said that exact phrase while sitting in section 109 after Politte gave up those bombs.

Deebs14
04-15-2006, 01:09 AM
Look on the bright side everyone! I saw Lisa Dergan at the game!!

You're very lucky! :cool:

WS in 05
04-15-2006, 01:11 AM
just got home and am still pissed at how bad anderson sucks man twice with bases loaded and nothing!!! could have at least 4 rbis tonight but he sucks ass

illinisox1
04-15-2006, 01:15 AM
:firejauron

itsnotrequired
04-15-2006, 01:16 AM
Blah.

Get 'em tomorrow, boys.

infohawk
04-15-2006, 01:18 AM
I was waiting to hear someone finally say "our offense is good enough to put up with Anderson in the 9-hole"

You never know on a given night what part of the line-up will be needed to win the game. Tonight is was the 9-spot and he failed miserably...leaving 8 men on base over 3 ab's.
Every team has positions they would like to upgrade, but a GM has to make a strategic decision regarding what resources the teams has in either dollars or trade chips to use to obtain the upgrade. I'll I'm saying is that we have a pretty solid offense and, if we need to make an upgrade somewhere, I'd just assume trade for a couple more arms in the bullpen. Such a move would win far more games, assuming our bullpen doesn't revert to last year's form, than an upgrade in the 9-hole. Scoring runs hasn't really been a problem this year. If we need Anderson to come through to make sure we score ten runs and not just seven, our problems aren't with hitting, but pitching.

Mr. White Sox
04-15-2006, 01:20 AM
Alright, a few points:

-*** Javier? During the 5-run inning I got a phone call and zoned out the game a bit, then I looked back. That was disgusting. I seriously think he'll be fine and will have an ERA in the low 3's.

-Cliff Politte seems to have regressed. A lot. His control is off, his velocity is down, and his fastball is straight as an arrow. Not great.

-Neal Cotts may have a "sneaky fastball", but it ain't so sneaky if he throws it 80-90% of the time. If he mixes in his change and works on another pitch (slider? cutter?) he should be just fine.

-Brian Anderson. Everyone says he looked terrible, send him down, blah blah blah. PODS IS HITTING .038. It's the beginning of the year guys, seriously. PK hit something like .150 to start the year a couple of years ago. From what I've seen with Brian, he can hit a fastball just fine but he gets completely crossed up on offspeed stuff. It didn't help that Scott Downs had a Zito-curve going for the first couple of innings, and it also didn't help that Vinnie Chulk had a plus slider. If Brian plays tomorrow (I hope he does but I bet Mackowiak gets the start), he'll get a hit or two against Burnett, who is coming off of an injury. His velocity could be a bit down, and Brian can take advantage of a sorta straight fastball.

Worst-case scenario, BA becomes a Jose Valentin-like hitter; a guy that will hit around .240-.250 and will crush the dead fastballs and mistake curves. Not bad for a number 9 hitter. Oh and I'd take BA over Vallenstache in CF as well.

IlliniSox4Life
04-15-2006, 01:23 AM
*sigh* It is upsetting that we lost, and it was a bad loss, but I'm not worried. No reason to start messing with anything yet.

1) The reason for tonights loss is pitching. Not Brian Anderson.
2) We have the best pitching staff in baseball, but yes, there will be nights that things don't click. Tonight was one of them. Vazquez didn't have his best stuff, but he will have it more often then not. Check his last start for what he can do.
3) Brian Anderson should not be sent to the minors. Everyone has bad games. Everyone has several bad games in a row at some point or another. Podsednik isn't doing any better. Should he be sent to the minors? Should Garland be sent to the minors? What about Vazquez, he had a bad start?

Chisox003
04-15-2006, 01:26 AM
Podsednik isn't doing any better. Should he be sent to the minors? Hmm....

If I was confident in Pablo catching the ball for a week or 2, I'd vote yes

thomas35forever
04-15-2006, 01:27 AM
I wonder if Politte is slipping. That's the second in the last week he's given up big homers. I think he'll be all right, but I'm a little concerned.

MICROblue
04-15-2006, 01:28 AM
Besides the score, there was something else that upset me about tonight. It was my first game without Nancy start to finish. I was appalled that Na Na Na Na... was not played when Downs got knocked out in the third. At the very least, a taped segment should be played. Bad Bad Leroy Brown??? Give me a break! Anyone else feel the same?

Nellie_Fox
04-15-2006, 01:30 AM
Here's the real story, folks. It's my fault.

So far this year, every single time I'm able to watch or listen to a game, the Sox have lost. Every time I'm at work or for some other reason unable to follow the game, the Sox have won.

I listened tonight. Oh, I tried to shut everything off late in the game in the hopes of sparking a comeback, but it was obviously too little, too late.

I'm totally conflicted. Not only do I have to decide whether to listen (XM) tomorrow, but it's a WGN game on Sunday!

soxfanreggie
04-15-2006, 01:40 AM
I watched Polite give up that 2-run homer...horrible pitch...he just hung one up there to be jacked out of the park..

HotelWhiteSox
04-15-2006, 01:50 AM
****ing juiced ball

ChiSoxGirl
04-15-2006, 02:09 AM
Two good things came from being at the game tonight for me. I got to hang out with my WSI friends and meet a couple new ones- MrRoboto83 and Scottiehaswheels- in the process; nice to meet you two! I also went to the game with DieTrying79, which was very fun. It was great seeing chisoxmike, IronFisk, DumpJerry, itsnotrequired, and jenn2080 again, too! :smile: Thanks for the fun times on the Fan Deck tonight, despite the debacle on the field!

Frankfan4life
04-15-2006, 02:11 AM
Here's the real story, folks. It's my fault.

So far this year, every single time I'm able to watch or listen to a game, the Sox have lost. Every time I'm at work or for some other reason unable to follow the game, the Sox have won.

I listened tonight. Oh, I tried to shut everything off late in the game in the hopes of sparking a comeback, but it was obviously too little, too late.

I'm totally conflicted. Not only do I have to decide whether to listen (XM) tomorrow, but it's a WGN game on Sunday!Sometimes I feel that way, too. I often get superstitious about Sox games. However, when I feel that way, I tell myself that if I have the power to cause the Sox to lose, then I must be some kind of diety (or devil). Of course that's nuts, none of our actions can effect the outcome of a ballgame. Besides the players, only God can do that. So, relax and listen to the game tomorrow with the knowledge that there is nothing you're doing to cause the Sox to lose, or win for that matter. I guarantee you that your luck is going to change. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to say a prayer for them. I usually do.

HomeFish
04-15-2006, 02:14 AM
Besides the score, there was something else that upset me about tonight. It was my first game without Nancy start to finish. I was appalled that Na Na Na Na... was not played when Downs got knocked out in the third. At the very least, a taped segment should be played. Bad Bad Leroy Brown??? Give me a break! Anyone else feel the same?

I think what happened was that they did not think that Toronto would make a pitching change, and began playing Leory Brown as filler music for the walk to the mound. Then it was too late, because that guy came in from the bullpen really fast. I was waiting for the Toronto manager to signal, and then I just see this guy running in right field before I notice anything else.

Beautox
04-15-2006, 02:18 AM
Could we possibly move poeple around so that Cintron could be an everyday player and get rid of Anderson? He has been looking pretty good. I don't know just a thought.....

are you serious? i hope you eat those words by seasons end. Anderson will come around as people here have all ready mentioned aaron rowand sucked when he was first brought up, but it seems alot of people were crying in their beer when he was traded as if he was god's gift to CF. Spare me give the kid a break it sucks that he cant pull the trigger when there are men in scoring position but o well, he was brought up here to play solid D and it certinaly looks like he is, and if anyone has qualms about that your a fool, he misread one ball out at comerica, rowand was'nt/is'nt a good CF he has heart but took bad reads on the ball, he made the most simple of plays look like web jems because he could'nt just coast under it. Somtimes sox fans make me sick.

Beautox
04-15-2006, 02:27 AM
Could we possibly move poeple around so that Cintron could be an everyday player and get rid of Anderson? He has been looking pretty good. I don't know just a thought.....

I hope you eat your words by seasons end. Brian Anderson is doing exactly what Aaron Rowand did when he came up. Get off the kids back, it sucks that he can't pull the triger with people in scoring position but o well. He was brought here to play solid D and so far hes doing that, aside from the one ball at Comerica. Alot of people were crying in their beer when they heard Aaron Rowand was traded and think he was God's gift to CF, the truth of the matter is Aaron Rowand is a mediocre CF he made the simplest of plays look like Web Gems because he could'nt get a good read on the ball. Anderson's bat will come around give him sometime and not 10 games into a season, this time last year people wanted to trade our World Series MVP, because he started slow. Our 2-7 hitters are getting it done, as people stated during the offseason whatever offense anderson could bring to the table would be an added bonus but that was'nt why he was brought here, he is here to play CF simple as that.

Beautox
04-15-2006, 02:28 AM
:redface: sorry about that, the first post i thought got deleted and so i retyped

Mohoney
04-15-2006, 03:20 AM
My big beef is that some of those hits that Vazquez gave up were just bad luck. That pitch to Glaus was about six inches outside, and Glaus still got wood on it. The Blue Jays hit some tough pitches in that 5th inning, and didn't really hit many balls hard to come up with a 5 spot. Of course, it certainly didn't help when Dye and Iguchi gave free bases away, but I would definitely deserve a Prozac tag if I were to complain about the defense of this team just because of 1 bad game in April.

I just think that Widger should have called for at least 1 high and inside fastball when Vazquez had 2 strikes on Glaus. He was looking away the entire at-bat, and with as far as he stands off the plate, the only way he gets to that outside pitch is if Widger and Vazquez cut the strike zone in half by pitching exclusively outside.

I'm not too worried about it, though. This was the first time that Widger has caught Vazquez this season. I think that Widger will get less and less conservative as the season progresses, and I think that Garcia, Contreras, and Vazquez will get 45-50 wins combined between the 3 of them when all is said and done.

Bobbo35
04-15-2006, 03:31 AM
The first couple of weeks of this season are turing out to be very interesting in that there has been no real discernable pattern emerging from any one team. Take the AL Central for example. The Tribe and Tigers jump out to a lead, but then drop a few. The Sox and Twins drop a few, but then go on winning streaks and are now at or around .500. The Twins offense looked really bad, but then they sweep the A's while scoring quite a few runs. The Central is basically bunched together right now.

I still say that we as fans must avoid the temptation to measure this year up against last year. Even championship teams don't traditionally jump out to the kind of division lead we had last year. It was a rarity. I can realistically see the central kind of bunched together for awhile because it has become a much more competitive division. The key is to stay right in it until July or so and then really turn it on.

I think the Sox just need to play baseball and not get caught up in measuring what other teams in the central are doing.

On tonights game: I have one thing to say. We cannot give up leads. Last year a 3 run lead meant the Sox won the game. That needs to happen this year. Garland gives up a monster lead against KC and Vasquez tonight. Lets get them tommorow Buerhle

gbergman
04-15-2006, 03:52 AM
ugly ugly ugly, only a few decent starting pitcher performances and this wasnt one

dagame2005
04-15-2006, 03:56 AM
I think we'll be alright. Politte scares me though. Last year was a career year for him. Anderson is a rookie who is only two weeks into the season. Yes, it pisses me off to see him not get runners home with the bases loaded, but that is why he is a rookie and hitting 9th. I think he will come around, if not we have other options. I have watched Vazquez for quite a while and he is absolutely nasty! He will be fine in the end, everyone has a rough start once in a while. Overall, we lost ONE game after a four game winning streak, I can deal with that. We just need to relax and remember it's a long season.

IowaSox1971
04-15-2006, 04:15 AM
I pin this loss on Anderson. In each game, there are about three or four at-bats that can really turn the tide either way. All he did tonight was fail. It's almost impossible to leave eight guys on base during your first three at-bats, especially when you keep coming up with less than two outs, but he did that. (I believe he also had one or two at-bats in Thursday's game at Detroit where he failed to get a runner in from third with less than two outs.)

I don't blame Vazquez as much because you know coming into a game like this that Toronto is going to score some runs. Toronto has a very good-hitting team, and you have to seize the momentum when you can. Because of Anderson, we didn't do that. If we go ahead 8-2 or 9-2, that's a lot different than being up by just 5-2 in a park where the ball can really carry.

jenn2080
04-15-2006, 04:15 AM
Two good things came from being at the game tonight for me. I got to hang out with my WSI friends and meet a couple new ones- MrRoboto83 and Scottiehaswheels- in the process; nice to meet you two! I also went to the game with DieTrying79, which was very fun. It was great seeing chisoxmike, IronFisk, DumpJerry, itsnotrequired, and jenn2080 again, too! :smile: Thanks for the fun times on the Fan Deck tonight, despite the debacle on the field!

Hey but we got to see AJ saggie boobs in the fan deck in the 9th. Come on that topped my whole night. That was the best cleavage in 5 counties! Im gagging right now typing this ;-) Good to see you guys again! Did I mention tonight how much I do not like Brian Anderson?

MrRoboto83
04-15-2006, 05:08 AM
Two good things came from being at the game tonight for me. I got to hang out with my WSI friends and meet a couple new ones- MrRoboto83 and Scottiehaswheels- in the process; nice to meet you two! I also went to the game with DieTrying79, which was very fun. It was great seeing chisoxmike, IronFisk, DumpJerry, itsnotrequired, and jenn2080 again, too! :smile: Thanks for the fun times on the Fan Deck tonight, despite the debacle on the field!

It was nice meeting you as well ChiSoxGirl!

Grzegorz
04-15-2006, 06:56 AM
I pin this loss on Anderson. In each game, there are about three or four at-bats that can really turn the tide either way. All he did tonight was fail.

Durocher/Mays = Guillen/Anderson...

No, Anderson is not Mays, but sending him down is not the answer. He's the guy in CF; show some confidence maybe sit him down to collect himself.

His bat isn't slow; ask that kid Hernandez from Seattle.

I don't blame Vazquez as much because you know coming into a game like this that Toronto is going to score some runs.

Pitcher aren't supposed to spot the other teams runs; the pitching was bad. To make the argument that Toronto's pitching was just as bad and that both staff negate each other is specious.

starboy0
04-15-2006, 08:48 AM
Brian Anderson had 2 chances to break the game wide open. Choked both times. At least some of the blame lies there. Whatever you do, don't blame Pablo and Cintron -- they played well above their heads.

I had the misfortune of being at this game. I knew it wouldn't end well when I met Southpaw in the gift shop and he refused to hug me. That's never a good omen.

Funny! I think Ozzie should consider bringing Southpaw in to pitch.

But seriously I think we will be ok. Garland, Vazquez, Politte, and Cotts can only improve with location. They all have great stuff.

Also you just have to let Anderson battle and learn for awhile. Rookies need playing time.

BeviBall!
04-15-2006, 10:07 AM
I think the Sox just need to play baseball and not get caught up in measuring what other teams in the central are doing.

On tonights game: I have one thing to say. We cannot give up leads. Last year a 3 run lead meant the Sox won the game. That needs to happen this year. Garland gives up a monster lead against KC and Vasquez tonight. Lets get them tommorow Buerhle

That's not exactly true... last year, we blew countless 3 and 4 run leads. The difference was, the Sox rebounded in enough time to pull them out. We rarley had and "easy" wins.

peeonwrigley
04-15-2006, 10:29 AM
Politte's fast ball was not up to snuff last night, which makes his other stuff far less effective. He was in the mid-90s last year, wasn't he? His fastball didn't seem to have much life from my seats.

Vazquez really annoyed me; but to me the big culprit in the Jays' 5 run inning to me was Ozzie/Coop. IIRC, neither of them came out in the middle of the Jays huge inning to at least settle Javy down and give him a break, let alone impart some advice or something. And what a hit parade that was.

Anderson really killed some rallies. That double play was brutal. I've said before that the lineup is designed to build in some slack for him, I mean he hits in the 9-spot. But last night I would have considered pinch hitting for him early with runners on base. He totally seemed hopeless up there. Its possible teams have scouted something on him because its been a bit since I've seen him have a "good out."

miker
04-15-2006, 10:43 AM
I'd complain, but I'd be labelled a "dark cloud"...:(:

voodoochile
04-15-2006, 10:45 AM
I'd complain, but I'd be labelled a "dark cloud"...:(:

Complaining about a single game's performance after a loss is not being a dark cloud.

Extrapolating a losing/downward trend (with or without graphs) after one or two poor performances by a player or the team at large is being a dark cloud...

RedHeadPaleHoser
04-15-2006, 10:51 AM
It was a bad loss, but the Blue Jays were hitting...it reminded me of the Tiger slugfest...we came out on the short end.

I did love the crowd though, could hear the crowd noise on TV...once again, energy in the house. Nice work, all who were there!!

miker
04-15-2006, 10:58 AM
Complaining about a single game's performance after a loss is not being a dark cloud.

Extrapolating a losing/downward trend (with or without graphs) after one or two poor performances by a player or the team at large is being a dark cloud...
Thank you for the clarification. Last night blew chunks...but it is just one game. We'll get them Saturday.

Does anybody know if the "choking at home in front of large crowds" theory has been suggested yet?

viagracat
04-15-2006, 11:02 AM
Several reasons for the loss, but I think the game turned on Dye's mistake in the 5th inning. Allowing Rios to go to second by missing the cutoff man changed the whole dynamics of the inning. If Rios stays on first, maybe you concede a run to complete a double play and avoid the big inning, but that no longer was going to happen. And not to let Vazquez totally off the hook, but most of the ensuing string of hits by the Jays were either those seeing-eye squibs or bloops or just good pieces of hitting by Toronto; Glaus' opposite field double was a great example of just going with the pitch instead of trying to pull it. You give up a lead with an inning full of bad luck and fundamental breakdowns like that, it's real easy to get a little discombobulated thereafter, which was the case last night.

It was a bad game, and there'll be more during the season. But ordinarily they're better than this, so I'm not concerned. If everyone got frantic every time their favorite team had an off-night, you'd see as many clinics on the corners as you do Starbuck's, McDonald's and Walgreens--combined.

We'll get 'em today with Buehrle :wink:

itsnotrequired
04-15-2006, 11:22 AM
Oh, I also forgot to mention that I met some more WSIers last night. I can add skobabe8 and DieTrying79 to my jackpot.:gulp:

I only have to meet three more members and then I have BINGO!:D:

itsnotrequired
04-15-2006, 11:30 AM
Two good things came from being at the game tonight for me. I got to hang out with my WSI friends and meet a couple new ones- MrRoboto83 and Scottiehaswheels- in the process; nice to meet you two! I also went to the game with DieTrying79, which was very fun. It was great seeing chisoxmike, IronFisk, DumpJerry, itsnotrequired, and jenn2080 again, too! :smile: Thanks for the fun times on the Fan Deck tonight, despite the debacle on the field!

You know, I think I saw you talking to those two and I didn't walk over and introduce myself.:redface:

I have shamed my house...

A. Cavatica
04-15-2006, 12:13 PM
rowand sucked when he was first brought up

Correction: Rowand was terrific when he was first brought up. In 2001 he had 123 at-bats, batted .293 with a .385 OBP, slugged .431, and stole 5 bases in 6 chances.

That is all.

spiffie
04-15-2006, 12:15 PM
I think the thing that got to me was that Anderson's defense again last night seemed average at best. The preseason word on him seemed to be that his defense was going to be an improvement on Rowand's. But last night he seemed to be moving very slowly and passively on shallow fly balls, letting at least 2 that appeared to be at least worth a good effort fall in front of him. If you're going to kill rallies with such constant brutality, the least you can do is get the uniform dirty and go hard after the ball in the OF. Instead last night I get to watch him come up, be utterly clueless at the plate, and then seem to be loafing in the OF. That's when the boobirds seemed to get agitated at him IMO.

daveeym
04-15-2006, 12:19 PM
They should call Walt Hrniak for another one on one hitting session for Anderson like they did last year with Uribe. He needs to shorten up his swing and simipifly his movement through the strikezone. Every pitcher is throwing him low and away and he is pulling off everything, fouling pitches in the strikezone off, and missing pitches low and in the dirt.That's what I noticed too, and he's just waving his bat at them. When he came up that second time and hit into that double play I knew bad things were going to happen. He looked totally uncomfortable and like he didn't want to be up there hitting. I know he's a tall lanky guy but they need to move him up on the plate. Take away the outside corner and force the pitchers to throw him inside until he gets in a groove.

Beer Can Chicken
04-15-2006, 12:25 PM
They should call Walt Hrniak for another one on one hitting session for Anderson like they did last year with Uribe. He needs to shorten up his swing and simipifly his movement through the strikezone. Every pitcher is throwing him low and away and he is pulling off everything, fouling pitches in the strikezone off, and missing pitches low and in the dirt.
I personally dont think his swing is the problem. He seems to be guessing alot out there, he looks very overwhelmed. I think he is pressing and just needs to relax and show a little more patience at the plate.

JoeClutch24
04-15-2006, 12:28 PM
I do believe that we have to give credit where credit is due though, the Blue Jays are a great baseball team. But heres the thing I think that Jim Thome couldn't have scripted his time in Chicago any better, if he was batting .150, everyone would be pissed at him and Kenny Williams, it just so happens that Brian Anderson is batting .129 and everyone is impatient and wants immediate results, give the guy a few more weeks. I think he will be fine.

OzzieBall
04-15-2006, 12:30 PM
And when he's not chasing, he watches pitches right down the middle.

He's totally inbetween right now.

Some random thoughts about last night:

You couldn't be any more right about BA. He looks confused - like he hasn't ever been to the plate before. He is in a slump and needs to hit himself out. Lots of BP, lots of cage work and a little bit of support from us.

He is a rookie guys and he will play well. Give him a chance to get himself righted.

They hit the crap out of the ball. Dye made a bad throw and then he hit Iguchi on the cutoff and they got Overbay at the plate. No bad throw and then we are out of the innning with a Double play.

Vazquez was done after five and should have been lifted. The problem is there is no one in the bullpen who was better than he was last night.

I've been to three of the four games this year and the pitching is what is killing us. The Jays are a very good team - possible playoff matchup. Our fifth man got beat-up, let's hope Mark can't take one tonight.

I just re-read this and it sounds like I am ready to jump. They are 4-5, not 1-8. This will be fine.

IronFisk
04-15-2006, 01:36 PM
Did I mention tonight how much I do not like Brian Anderson?

Explicitly.

DieTrying79
04-15-2006, 08:27 PM
Hey but we got to see AJ saggie boobs in the fan deck in the 9th. Come on that topped my whole night. That was the best cleavage in 5 counties! Im gagging right now typing this ;-) Good to see you guys again! Did I mention tonight how much I do not like Brian Anderson?

I don't know what was worse, that lady or the bullpen pitching tonite:tongue: . It was awesome being at my first game at home this year, as well as meeting a good amount of WSI'ers: Itsnotrequired, IronFisk, Jenn2080, Scottiehaswheels, MrRoboto, Reni, Skobabe and Converted. Great meeting you guys! And thank you to ChiSoxGirl for taking me, and ChiSoxFanatic for scoring the tix for us.

"I LOOOOVE WSI!"

Tragg
04-16-2006, 01:55 AM
What concerns me, is that a player we paid an arm and a leg for imploded. For Vasquez we traded 2 competent bullpen pitchers (one of which could be a swing starter) and possible Anderson (or Podsednik) insurance. We weakened our depth at what appear today to be our weakest spots.