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View Full Version : I like what Jim Tracy did today!


SouthSide_HitMen
04-09-2006, 03:38 PM
He used his "closer" in the eight (Mike Gonzalez) to face the Reds best hitters (Freel, Lopez, Griffey & Dunn - the heart of the lineup). He gave up 1 run but held the lead and the "set up" man Roberto Hernandez picked up the save facing the bottom of the lineup.

Jim Tracy gave his team the best chance of winning without worrying about the meaningless save (meaningless except for Rotisserie Baseball fans including me). This move reminds me of Ozzie's decisions last season which put the team first and "roles" and "statistics" second.

Kudos to the Pirates on their first win.

SOXintheBURGH
04-09-2006, 04:22 PM
Yeah it was a great game. I hope they can string together a couple in a row early in the season for once. If they can float around .500 by the break I will be ecstatic.

TDog
04-09-2006, 04:48 PM
This is the way teams did things in the '60s. If you have a solid bullpen, it should work as a committee, with the pitchers best suited to get guys out in given situation coming in to do so instead of people having roles as 7th-inning setup, 8th-inning set up and closer without regard to the hitters.

Thome's Homey
04-09-2006, 05:30 PM
You gotta respect the 'Berto.

http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/5825/44294mv.jpg

SouthSide_HitMen
04-09-2006, 05:38 PM
This is the way teams did things in the '60s. If you have a solid bullpen, it should work as a committee, with the pitchers best suited to get guys out in given situation coming in to do so instead of people having roles as 7th-inning setup, 8th-inning set up and closer without regard to the hitters.

I think the plan may have been for Gonzalez to go two but he pitched 27 pitches in the 8th so it made sense to bring in Hernandez to finish, even though he lost a chance at "the save".

Nevertheless, most managers would play it safe, put Hernandez in against the heart of the order and hope he holds on so his "closer" could pick up the precious save - that is if the Pirates were still leading at that point.

Jjav829
04-09-2006, 11:01 PM
He used his "closer" in the eight (Mike Gonzalez) to face the Reds best hitters (Freel, Lopez, Griffey & Dunn - the heart of the lineup). He gave up 1 run but held the lead and the "set up" man Roberto Hernandez picked up the save facing the bottom of the lineup.

Jim Tracy gave his team the best chance of winning without worrying about the meaningless save (meaningless except for Rotisserie Baseball fans including me). This move reminds me of Ozzie's decisions last season which put the team first and "roles" and "statistics" second.

Kudos to the Pirates on their first win.

I think that has more to do with Tracy not having a definitive closer. Mike Gonzalez, while a good reliever, is hardly Eric Gagne. And since he is also the Pirates best lefty reliever, I think Tracy is probably going to go with a sort of closer-by-committee for the early part of the season.

doublem23
04-09-2006, 11:05 PM
Works for me; another save for my Peoria Pumpkins. :cool:

SouthSide_HitMen
04-10-2006, 01:46 PM
http://www.rototimes.com/index.php?sport=bsball&type=playernotes

Mike Gonzalez (P) Pit (http://www.rototimes.com/index.php?sport=bsball&type=profile&name=5053) was used in the eighth inning of Sunday's win against Cincinnati while veteran Roberto Hernandez came in to nail down the save in the ninth. It appears that manager Jim Tracy just thought the matchups in the ninth better suited Hernandez, so don't be alarmed if you are a Gonzalez owner, according to the Post-Gazette. "Mike Gonzalez is going to close games for us, no question," Tracy said. "But it made all the sense in the world for Mike Gonzalez to pitch when he did and for Roberto Hernandez to pitch when he did."

viagracat
04-10-2006, 02:35 PM
You get a hunch, you go for it. Good managers sometimes throw out the "rulebook". I liked Tracy's move. Hope the Bucs can do some damage this year.

:smile:

SoLongFrank
04-10-2006, 03:09 PM
He used his "closer" in the eight (Mike Gonzalez) to face the Reds best hitters (Freel, Lopez, Griffey & Dunn - the heart of the lineup). He gave up 1 run but held the lead and the "set up" man Roberto Hernandez picked up the save facing the bottom of the lineup.

Jim Tracy gave his team the best chance of winning without worrying about the meaningless save (meaningless except for Rotisserie Baseball fans including me). This move reminds me of Ozzie's decisions last season which put the team first and "roles" and "statistics" second.

Kudos to the Pirates on their first win.

That "set up" man has been a proven closer in the league for years. So there's no doubt that Roberto can handle a closing situation.

That's a far cry from the White Sox situation. If Jenks can't do it & Hermy's out there's not a lot of closer experience to count on. Just a bunch of closer candidates.

WhiteSoxFan84
04-10-2006, 03:09 PM
This pisses me off! Not only did he give up a run, he also didn't get the save. How can this be great?? I have him on my fantasy team!! :angry:

downstairs
04-10-2006, 03:14 PM
I've never understood how locked-down the set-up and closer roles are.

Why do closers only go 1 inning, when set-up men can do 2-3. Is it that much harder to do 2 innings as a closer?

As well... why does everyone bring in the closer in the 9th? If you need relief in the 7th or 8th... why not just bring out your best to face their best. If we were in a close game and our starter only went 7... I'd have no problem bringing in Jenks to get the 3,4,5 hitters in the 8th if they were up.

SoLongFrank
04-10-2006, 03:22 PM
A save situation means the other team can still win the game with a rally in 9th. In a tight ball game it's usual for 2 of the best non-closers in a pen to have already appeared.

If a closer puts the tying & winning runs on the fat lady is ready to sing. By that time in the game replacement value if you take him out is below even. It's a much harder position in the AL because he can't maneuver 7-8 hitters to get to the pitcher.

SouthSide_HitMen
04-10-2006, 05:13 PM
This pisses me off! Not only did he give up a run, he also didn't get the save. How can this be great?? I have him on my fantasy team!! :angry:

I have him on one of my teams as well. That said, as a baseball fan (as well as a casual Pirate due to my Steelers alliance and the fact I must of seen Jason Thompson hit approximately 46 homers at Wrigley growing up) I loved the move.

Your best pitcher should face the best hitters - whether it is to shut down a rally in the 7th or get the heart of the order out in the 8th. This is why I liked many of the moves Ozzie has made, even though I was skeptical of how Ozzie would do when he arrived.

StockdaleForVeep
04-10-2006, 05:17 PM
He used his "closer" in the eight (Mike Gonzalez) to face the Reds best hitters (Freel, Lopez, Griffey & Dunn - the heart of the lineup). He gave up 1 run but held the lead and the "set up" man Roberto Hernandez picked up the save facing the bottom of the lineup.

Jim Tracy gave his team the best chance of winning without worrying about the meaningless save (meaningless except for Rotisserie Baseball fans including me). This move reminds me of Ozzie's decisions last season which put the team first and "roles" and "statistics" second.

Kudos to the Pirates on their first win.

Yes but had hernandez given up the lead, he woulda been grilled for not usin his closer accurately. Why wouldnt they have hernandez in if he's good enough to setup man or leave gonzales in for 2

SouthSide_HitMen
04-10-2006, 05:37 PM
Yes but had hernandez given up the lead, he woulda been grilled for not usin his closer accurately. Why wouldnt they have hernandez in if he's good enough to setup man or leave gonzales in for 2

That is the unanswered question at this point. Either he initially would have left him in for the 9th if he didn't have 27 pitches in the 8th.

Gonzalez is a lefty and was brought in for the eight not only to pitch to the top of the Reds order, but also to pitch to the lefties Griffey and Dunn.

Most managers would play it safe and not put their team in the best position to win. If Hernandez blew the game against top lefty hitters in the 8th, Tracy could have fell back on the "well we went with the set up man" excuse. The reason I started the thread was I though Tracy made the better move which may be considered unconventional and which is why I "liked what he did".

This season should be a lot more interesting than the last few years of "I hope they have a lead in the 9th so we can roll out Mesa."

Steeler Baby wants to go to the World Series as well this year!!!

http://www.steelerbaby.com/

StockdaleForVeep
04-11-2006, 01:01 PM
That is the unanswered question at this point. Either he initially would have left him in for the 9th if he didn't have 27 pitches in the 8th.

Gonzalez is a lefty and was brought in for the eight not only to pitch to the top of the Reds order, but also to pitch to the lefties Griffey and Dunn.

Most managers would play it safe and not put their team in the best position to win. If Hernandez blew the game against top lefty hitters in the 8th, Tracy could have fell back on the "well we went with the set up man" excuse. The reason I started the thread was I though Tracy made the better move which may be considered unconventional and which is why I "liked what he did".

This season should be a lot more interesting than the last few years of "I hope they have a lead in the 9th so we can roll out Mesa."

Steeler Baby wants to go to the World Series as well this year!!!

http://www.steelerbaby.com/

Yes but should the setupguy blow it in the 9th, yer left with extra innings and without yer best arm in the pen by chance

TDog
04-11-2006, 01:54 PM
Yes but should the setupguy blow it in the 9th, yer left with extra innings and without yer best arm in the pen by chance

If your setup guy blows it in the 8th, where the margin of error is smaller, the 9th inning is moot. Your setup guy has a better chance to succeed in the 9th under these circumstances. Managers used to understand this the setup-closer mentality took hold.