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View Full Version : Switch Order to: Dye/Konerko/Thome?


TomBradley72
04-08-2006, 07:20 PM
Not pressing the panic button....but looking at how this line up shakes out...I think the Sox should consider going with Dye/Konerko/Thome as their 3-4-5 hitters. Thome/Konerko are SOOOO slow...it really clogs up the base paths...and I like the idea of Thome protecting Konerko. Add in AJ and Crede and this has to be one of the slowest line ups in the league.

TaylorStSox
04-08-2006, 07:22 PM
Nope. PK's going to get alot of AB's with RISP with Thome hitting in front of him.

Let's let Dye get in the line up before we worry about the order.

DickAllen72
04-08-2006, 07:26 PM
Thome/Konerko are SOOOO slow...it really clogs up the base paths...and I like the idea of Thome protecting Konerko. Add in AJ and Crede and this has to be one of the slowest line ups in the league.

Yep.

Corlose 15
04-08-2006, 07:45 PM
Except that Konerko, Thome, AJ, Crede is a very slow foursome as well. You might as well break that up with Dye in the middle of that, not to mention Thome's great OBP in the 3 hole.

IowaSox1971
04-08-2006, 08:32 PM
Thome is fine in the No. 3 spot. It guarantees he will be up in the first inning, and he is drawing walks at a great pace. It's not his fault that others in the lineup are not driving him in more.

Jjav829
04-08-2006, 08:38 PM
No, no, no. This team needs another lineup change like Kerry Wood needs another injury. If anything, we need to start getting some continuity to the lineup, not changing things up again. Thome is fine in the #3 spot. We need him to have as many at-bats as possible and we need him on base in front of Konerko and Dye as much as possible. Right now the issue is that Pods is not getting on base nearly enough in front of Thome, and Konerko isn't hitting enough behind Thome. There is not one single White Sox player other than Jim Thome with a home run. For the sake of comparison, the Tigers have eight different players with at least one home run.

Hijack: What the hell has gotten into Chris Shelton. Now he's decided that leading the league in home runs isn't enough. Apparently he wants to lead the league in triples as he has two tonight. He's also 3-3. I think Shelton has less outs this season than some Sox players have hits. :?:

Flight #24
04-08-2006, 08:43 PM
While I agree THome will be fine in the #3, I have noticed that the Sox appear to be less constructed this year for the single run. Example: Iguchi draws a leadoff walk, then Thome & Konerko fly out. You wouldn't think of having one of them give themselves up, whereas last year with Everett/AJ/Dye, you'd almost bet they were going to hit to the right side to get the guy to 2d.

Just something I noticed that may be factoring into the lack of taking advantage of scoring opportunities innings we've had that were such a big part of last year's winning.

Jjav829
04-08-2006, 08:49 PM
While I agree THome will be fine in the #3, I have noticed that the Sox appear to be less constructed this year for the single run. Example: Iguchi draws a leadoff walk, then Thome & Konerko fly out. You wouldn't think of having one of them give themselves up, whereas last year with Everett/AJ/Dye, you'd almost bet they were going to hit to the right side to get the guy to 2d.

Just something I noticed that may be factoring into the lack of taking advantage of scoring opportunities innings we've had that were such a big part of last year's winning.

But most of those types of scoring opportunities came 1-2. In other words, Pods leading off with a hit/walk, Iguchi moving him over and then Dye, Konerko, etc. getting him in. So far this year Pods has been on base twice. Hell, the home runs are great, but I'd love to see Thome come up with Pods on 3rd and a chance for a sac fly to score a run for once.

Huisj
04-08-2006, 08:54 PM
While I agree THome will be fine in the #3, I have noticed that the Sox appear to be less constructed this year for the single run. Example: Iguchi draws a leadoff walk, then Thome & Konerko fly out. You wouldn't think of having one of them give themselves up, whereas last year with Everett/AJ/Dye, you'd almost bet they were going to hit to the right side to get the guy to 2d.

Just something I noticed that may be factoring into the lack of taking advantage of scoring opportunities innings we've had that were such a big part of last year's winning.

So it's kind of like we've taken a step back towards the monster masher days of a few years ago . . . and we all know how inconsistent that approach was.

Lip Man 1
04-08-2006, 08:55 PM
Jjav:

Considering the Sox as a team have only hit two home runs both of those by Thome through five games, I'd settle for even that.

Lip

JB98
04-08-2006, 08:59 PM
So it's kind of like we've taken a step back towards the monster masher days of a few years ago . . . and we all know how inconsistent that approach was.

I disagree with this premise. We have not taken a step back toward the monster masher days of a few years ago. We haven't been able to manufacture many runs so far because our leadoff hitter hasn't been on base.

We've scored 25 runs so far this year, and only three have come on HRs.

ondafarm
04-08-2006, 09:03 PM
Okay, the next person who complains about guys "clogging the basepaths" I will borrow my father's elephant gun and track them down.

The amount of speed required of your 3 and 4 hitters (and even your #5) is just enough that they don't get nailed at first when bouncing a ball off the outfield wall.

Why? They are there to knock in the #1 and #2 hitters who do need speed.

Speed is much more needed among at least two of your 6-7-8-9 hitters (in the AL) or #7 or #8 in the NL. Those guys really just need to turnover the lineup and get you to the top as quickly as possible and double plays there kill you.

The White Sox lineup is very well-balanced with regards to lefty-righty and speed.

skobabe8
04-08-2006, 09:08 PM
First order of business is to just get JD back in the lineup. Second, Pods needs to get on ALOT more frequently. Then we'll start scoring some runs.

Crede_Fan
04-08-2006, 09:09 PM
Hijack: What the hell has gotten into Chris Shelton. Now he's decided that leading the league in home runs isn't enough. Apparently he wants to lead the league in triples as he has two tonight. He's also 3-3. I think Shelton has less outs this season than some Sox players have hits. :?:

Makes me really happy I got him for Roto:cool:

Jjav829
04-08-2006, 09:12 PM
Makes me really happy I got him for Roto:cool:
:mad:I debated between him and Dan Johnson. I went with Johnson. That was about as smart of a move as forgetting to start Chris Carpenter today. :rolleyes:

Of course, had I known Frank was going to sign with the A's at the time, the choice would have been easy.

JohnBasedowYoda
04-08-2006, 10:07 PM
Dye looks pretty great on the basepaths given his age, and given he's on the lineup. I like the lineup (provided it's all starters and not the Ozuna, Mackowiak, Gload festival) and we just have to give time for the core to get healthy. Dye was hitting great in spring training and so was AJ. Aj and Pods have looked weak hitting against lefties today though.

Taliesinrk
04-08-2006, 10:13 PM
Alright.. a couple of things:

1. Thome isn't Paulie.. notice the first-to-third move he made today. We may be slow, but we've got some fast guys too
2. There is no way that Jim Thome is batting 3rd.. just not gonna happen. He has always (minus last year) and is currently hitting way too good to put him at 5th.
3. There is no way in hell we've taken a step back. We are still able to manufacture runs. To compare this team to.. it doesn't. None of the teams that are of the "yesteryear" you're referring to ever had the pitching we do. The problem for us now is that our pitching needs to show up.

Let's wait till Dye gets back and our pitchers start getting in a rhythm to say we should change the order (as if it was consistent to start with). Things will come around (my question is the bullpen), and everyone will be able to breath once again.. I hope

Tragg
04-08-2006, 11:14 PM
Lack of production at lead-off is hurting us this year.

We were one of the best home-run hitting teams in the AL LAST year; it was and is critical to this team.

My merely observational not a scientific feeling was that Dye hit better last year in 3 than at 5 - with Konerko behind him, he was more selective and willing to take the walk. Thome has natural plate patience. Changing the lineup may not be a good idea on general principles, but it could make us more productive.

itsnotrequired
04-08-2006, 11:21 PM
Hijack: What the hell has gotten into Chris Shelton. Now he's decided that leading the league in home runs isn't enough. Apparently he wants to lead the league in triples as he has two tonight. He's also 3-3. I think Shelton has less outs this season than some Sox players have hits. :?:

Tell me about it. Guy is hitting .700 with a 1.750 SLG, 5 HRs, 2 3Bs, 2 2Bs and 9 RBIs. He has only struck out twice.

That is unreal...

PaleHoseGeorge
04-09-2006, 08:56 AM
The Sox are 1-4 because the pitching staff hasn't shown up. Only Tim McCarver would be stupid enough to blame the situation on the hitters.

The only thing McCarver ever knew about good pitching is that he couldn't hit it.

TomBradley72
04-09-2006, 09:24 AM
While I agree THome will be fine in the #3, I have noticed that the Sox appear to be less constructed this year for the single run. Example: Iguchi draws a leadoff walk, then Thome & Konerko fly out. You wouldn't think of having one of them give themselves up, whereas last year with Everett/AJ/Dye, you'd almost bet they were going to hit to the right side to get the guy to 2d.

Just something I noticed that may be factoring into the lack of taking advantage of scoring opportunities innings we've had that were such a big part of last year's winning.

That's where I was coming from...I see the Sox as having a greater ability to produce runs overall....but maybe a little less ability to construct a single run here and there.

oeo
04-09-2006, 09:36 AM
The Sox are 1-4 because the pitching staff hasn't shown up. Only Tim McCarver would be stupid enough to blame the situation on the hitters.

The only thing McCarver ever knew about good pitching is that he couldn't hit it.

We have a winner!!

And why change our lineup when the one time we actually had every one of our starters (Sunday), was the only game we won. Not only after the delay, but we saw a lot of great things before the delay as well. The lineup is fine...now if we could get our pitchers to show up, we'd be good to go.

mmmmmbeeer
04-09-2006, 10:17 AM
We have a winner!!

And why change our lineup when the one time we actually had every one of our starters (Sunday), was the only game we won. Not only after the delay, but we saw a lot of great things before the delay as well. The lineup is fine...now if we could get our pitchers to show up, we'd be good to go.

That's been upsetting me. I remember watching opening night and the way those guys were stringing together hits it was like they hadn't missed a beat since OCT. Next thing we know JD is hurt, Ozzie shuffles the lineup a bit, and we look ridiculously cold. JD is much more important to this team than we probably give him credit for.

SOecks
04-09-2006, 10:26 AM
Pitching and defense, pitching and defense. Yes the starting pitching hasn't shown up as expected, but the poor defense is just killing us. Aside from the great play in RF by Mack the other day, we're just not getting it done in the field.

TDog
04-09-2006, 01:07 PM
If speed were the concern, the Sox wouldn't have re-signed Konerko. If the Sox hadn't traded for Thome and had gone with Thomas at DH (I don't think anyone expected the Sox to keep Everett), the No. 3 hitter would be slower than it is today.

Thome is the No. 3 hitter. He is probably your best hitter for average on the team as well as having power. He also will draw many walks. Konerko is a cleanup hitter, with back-to-back 40-homer seasons. When Dye comes back, he will probably hit fifth.

batmanZoSo
04-09-2006, 01:15 PM
I like Thome up in the first inning. Get him as many bats with the table setters on as possible. Do you want a number three hitter who's on 35% of the time or one who's on 41% of the time?

PaleHoseGeorge
04-09-2006, 01:23 PM
This seems like a no-brainer. The ideal line up makes the opposing pitcher face successive hitters from opposite sides of the plate. Thus...

(L) Podsednik
(R) Iguchi
(L) Thome
(R) Konerko
(R) Dye
(L) Pierzynski
(R) Crede
(R) Anderson

One of the biggest reasons Cleveland's line up was so lethal throughout the 90's was for all the left/right combinations Hargrove used in his everyday line up. I trust Ozzie knows the same trick.

esbrechtel
04-09-2006, 05:35 PM
what about uribe?

UofCSoxFan
04-09-2006, 09:35 PM
I agree with most of the points here. Thome gets many more pitches to hit with Konerko and Dye backing him up than with AJ behind him.

Also, while Thome is slow, in case anyone didn't notice but Everett was running around the bases like a wounded Brontosuarus last year, so Thome is not really a downgrade in speed.

Half Cocked Jack
04-09-2006, 10:26 PM
I think Thome / Dye / Konerko would be optimal.