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whitesoxfan1986
04-07-2006, 11:07 PM
I want to know what a hold is. can anyone tell me. thanks

Fenway
04-07-2006, 11:16 PM
A hold is awarded to a relief pitcher if he enters in a save situation and leaves the game without having relinquished that lead.

It is a stat that really means little but a lot of fantasy leagues use it

Thome's Homey
04-07-2006, 11:44 PM
A hold is awarded to a relief pitcher if he enters in a save situation and leaves the game without having relinquished that lead.

It is a stat that really means little but a lot of fantasy leagues use it

Ah, ah, ah...Not so fast.

A hold is not an official stat. Therefore, it has no exact meaning. There are several different sets of criteria set forth by several different fantasy baseball providers.

That makes it a completely B.S. stat that no experienced fantasy commissioner uses. No one knows for sure what they are, because every definition is different. What fenway gave as the description is probably what the official definition should be...But again, there isn't one. MLB does not recognize the hold as anything at all.

Slats
04-07-2006, 11:55 PM
That's funny. Someone should tell the MLB website (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?teamPosCode=1&statType=2&timeFrame=1&c_id=mlb&section2=1&sitSplit=&venueID=&statSet2=3&subScope=pos&baseballScope=mlb&timeSubFrame=2006&&sortByStat=HLD) they have a stat listed that they don't recognize.

Fenway
04-08-2006, 12:04 AM
That's funny. Someone should tell the MLB website (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?teamPosCode=1&statType=2&timeFrame=1&c_id=mlb&section2=1&sitSplit=&venueID=&statSet2=3&subScope=pos&baseballScope=mlb&timeSubFrame=2006&&sortByStat=HLD) they have a stat listed that they don't recognize.

from mlb.com


The "Hold":
The hold is not an official statistic, but it was created as a way to credit middle relief pitchers for a job well done. Starting pitchers get wins, and closers -- the relief pitchers who come in at the end of the game -- get saves, but the guys who pitch in between the two rarely get either statistic. So what's the most important thing one of these middle relievers can do? "Hold" a lead. If a reliever comes into a game to protect a lead, gets at least one out and leaves without giving up that lead, he gets a hold. But you can't get a save and a hold at the same time.


http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/about_mlb/rules_regulations.jsp

Thome's Homey
04-08-2006, 12:18 AM
The "Hold":
The hold is not an official statistic, but it was created as a way to credit middle relief pitchers for a job well done. Starting pitchers get wins, and closers -- the relief pitchers who come in at the end of the game -- get saves, but the guys who pitch in between the two rarely get either statistic. So what's the most important thing one of these middle relievers can do? "Hold" a lead. If a reliever comes into a game to protect a lead, gets at least one out and leaves without giving up that lead, he gets a hold. But you can't get a save and a hold at the same time.



Exactly. :D:

Note that they have a different definition than the one first posted. That definition doesn't require it to be a save situation, just a winning situation (whether it be by the save's 3 or fewer, or even 20). Just goes to show how damned confusing fantasy baseball has made the hold.

Fenway
04-08-2006, 12:46 AM
I know the last hold I saw in person you might recall it

O Hernandez relieved D Marte.
J Varitek popped out to first.
T Graffanino popped out to shortstop
J Damon struck out swinging.

1 Runs, 2 Hits, 0 Errors
3 men left on base

Chicago White Sox 4
Boston Red Sox 3
End 6


He doesn't get the hold in that 6th inning who knows what would have happened? Game 4 would have been played 3 or 4 days later because of heavy rains that hit the Northeast.

Get Back There!
04-08-2006, 02:44 AM
that was a sweet hold....I'll say that much

santo=dorf
04-08-2006, 09:31 AM
The hold is the most worthless stat. A manager like Tony LaRussa can get 3 of them in one inning

SouthSide_HitMen
04-08-2006, 12:08 PM
The hold is the most worthless stat. A manager like Tony LaRussa can get 3 of them in one inning

It is one of the most bogus stats in baseball and should go the way of the Game Winning RBI (kept for a few years by MLB before being rightfully placed on the scrap heap).

LaRussa is the most overrated manager in baseball.

chaerulez
04-08-2006, 01:34 PM
Ah, ah, ah...Not so fast.

A hold is not an official stat. Therefore, it has no exact meaning. There are several different sets of criteria set forth by several different fantasy baseball providers.

That makes it a completely B.S. stat that no experienced fantasy commissioner uses. No one knows for sure what they are, because every definition is different. What fenway gave as the description is probably what the official definition should be...But again, there isn't one. MLB does not recognize the hold as anything at all.

That's fautly logic to say that it shouldn't be used in fantasy baseball. The rule of a hold stays consistent within whatever provider a league uses for a hold and can easily be looked up. So it's not like the rule of a hold at yahoo or ESPN or whatever fantasy service you use will change on a day to day basis. If holds aren't used to fantasy baseball, it makes middle relief pitchers and set up men basically worthless and at least this way this includes them in fantasy baseball.

Thome's Homey
04-08-2006, 03:26 PM
That's fautly logic to say that it shouldn't be used in fantasy baseball. The rule of a hold stays consistent within whatever provider a league uses for a hold and can easily be looked up. So it's not like the rule of a hold at yahoo or ESPN or whatever fantasy service you use will change on a day to day basis. If holds aren't used to fantasy baseball, it makes middle relief pitchers and set up men basically worthless and at least this way this includes them in fantasy baseball.

That is incorrect.

Take it from a fantasy guru (me). Middle relievers have EXTREME value so long as you use them correctly. People that aren't fantasy experts just don't see it. The back end of your rotation can consist of schmucks like El Duque/Greinke/Pavano/whatever schmuck is out there, or you can go with my route...The three-headed-middle-relief-monster.

EXAMPLE:
Last year, I had Scott Linebrink, Cliff Politte, and Scot Shields. For that, I got 25 wins, 225 Ks, 9 saves, and super-tiny, miniscule ERA/WHIP numbers. That's a Cy Young season. Know what I gave up for that? My final three spots in a 28-round draft. So, nothing. Most people have benchers in those rounds. I do this every year in every league, and I never have trouble finishing at or around the top.

Chicken Dinner
04-08-2006, 04:27 PM
A hold is something that Sox pitchers can't seem to get.

Taliesinrk
04-08-2006, 07:03 PM
The back end of your rotation can consist of schmucks like El Duque


hmm.. you clearly didn't watch the ALDS huh?

StockdaleForVeep
04-08-2006, 07:07 PM
A hold is awarded to a relief pitcher if he enters in a save situation and leaves the game without having relinquished that lead.

It is a stat that really means little but a lot of fantasy leagues use it

Id argue the concept of holds meaning little. Holds are a crucial "stat" cuz it shows what kind of relief u got.Id rather have a guy with 20 holds on my pen being the setup man rather than the likes of jaime navarro

Thome's Homey
04-08-2006, 08:40 PM
hmm.. you clearly didn't watch the ALDS huh?

...A few innings in one game of the ALDS (WHICH DOESN'T EVEN COUNT IN FANTASY BASEBALL) helps your fantasy team more than his whole year of 5+ ERA hurts it? :rolleyes:

Daver
04-08-2006, 09:10 PM
The stat of a hold was created by Stats inc. in the mid nineties, to give them something else to keep track of, it serves no purpose. Stats inc. also created the save, which has created a market for so called "Closers" ever since. Keith Foulke and Billy Koch are living examples of why you use made up stats at your own risk.

Crede_Fan
04-08-2006, 09:19 PM
...A few innings in one game of the ALDS (WHICH DOESN'T EVEN COUNT IN FANTASY BASEBALL) helps your fantasy team more than his whole year of 5+ ERA hurts it? :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:Calling one of the legends of the 2005 post season a schmuck:rolleyes:

Thome's Homey
04-08-2006, 09:33 PM
:rolleyes:Calling one of the legends of the 2005 post season a schmuck:rolleyes:

I have as much man-love for El Duque as any one else, but he's a complete and total scrub fantasy-wise.

SouthSide_HitMen
04-08-2006, 09:48 PM
The stat of a hold was created by Stats inc. in the mid nineties, to give them something else to keep track of, it serves no purpose. Stats inc. also created the save, which has created a market for so called "Closers" ever since. Keith Foulke and Billy Koch are living examples of why you use made up stats at your own risk.

Jerome Holtzman is the "father" of the save statistic developed in 1960 in conjunction with the Sporting News. I do agree the stat is worthless (and PHG would note Jerome Holtzman is equally worthless).

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FCI/is_5_61/ai_84542687

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sporting_News_Reliever_of_the_Year_Award

The "hold" is a recent phenomena and even more worthless than the save.

Taliesinrk
04-08-2006, 11:22 PM
I have as much man-love for El Duque as any one else, but he's a complete and total scrub fantasy-wise.

ahh.. yes.. the problem here is that previously.. you did not specify. Calling someone a schmuck (sp???), and saying they aren't good when taken in fantasy baseball is a bit different. I'm willing to bet some out there would say A.J. or Juan are the same way. I mean would you have called Ozzie Guillen a schmuck b/c he wasn't a good fantasy player? I hope not..

Thome's Homey
04-08-2006, 11:25 PM
ahh.. yes.. the problem here is that previously.. you did not specify. Calling someone a schmuck (sp???), and saying they aren't good when taken in fantasy baseball is a bit different. I'm willing to bet some out there would say A.J. or Juan are the same way. I mean would you have called Ozzie Guillen a schmuck b/c he wasn't a good fantasy player? I hope not..

Had you actually read the entire thread, it was quite clear. You know, like that pesky little thing I was replying to? Or maybe the paragraph that was in the middle of? You perhaps thought that I owned a real life team last year with the players mentioned? You know, one you never heard of that Politte pitched for on his days off from the Sox?

You picked one sentence out of an entire thread to read. You replied to it without reading the rest of the thread. Gee, I wonder why you were confused?

And yes, Juan is a fantasy schmuck. Ozzie was a fantasy schmuck. AJ is a decent fantasy player.

1951Campbell
04-08-2006, 11:29 PM
A hold is something that Sox pitchers can't seem to get.

Not this week, anyway.