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View Full Version : Incisive take on Phils' Drought


palehozenychicty
04-05-2006, 11:02 AM
I thought that this expose on the Phillies' organization (part 1) was refreshing, to explain their 12-year drought. They've had talented teams since that '93 WS, but little postseason appearances and success. Rowand could return sooner than we think unless Gillick rectifies this mess. Enjoy.

http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/14266597.htm

samram
04-05-2006, 12:16 PM
One of the biggest complaints I heard about the Wade era was a refusal to give young players a chance. Gavin Floyd is finally going to get a shot this year, as is Howard. The fans there also hate both sides regarding the Rolen situation. They still haven't filled that spot very well. They haven't had an ace since Schilling left either and they didn't want to keep Wagner.

However, I like their team this year. The offense is really solid- Howard is hitting sixth in that order. If Lieberthal makes a comeback and Bell is decent, that's a top three offense in the NL. The pitching is a little shaky, but I like Myers, Madson, and Floyd, and hopefully Hammels gets a shot. I think if Lieber and Lidle are the back end of that rotation by the end of the year, they'll be in good shape.

kraut83
04-05-2006, 12:28 PM
Hindsight is 20/20, but they signed David Bell based on one good season in Seattle. Had they not traded Polanco for Urbina last year, that would have been the in-house solution at 3B.

EastCoastSoxFan
04-06-2006, 10:17 AM
One of the biggest complaints I heard about the Wade era was a refusal to give young players a chance.
Not to hijack the thread, but that has also been a big problem for the Philadelphia Flyers. When they got to the Cup finals in '97 they had a tremendous nucleus of young talent mixed with players in their prime and a few older veterans. All they really needed was one Doug Wilson-type defensemen and they probably could have taken at least one Cup. Instead, by the end of '98 over half of the '97 team was gone, and many of the talented young players on that '97 team went on to have great careers with other teams.
Back to the original thread topic, the problems that the Sillies have had -- overvaluing their own players, penny-pinching, allowing non-baseball factors to influence baseball decisions -- are certainly not unique. In fact, some of them sound suspiciously similar to those of some team that's rumored to play within 8 or 9 miles of U.S. Cellular.
On the other hand, Pat Gillick seems to be a good choice to take them to the next level. The only knock I've heard on Gillick is that he has at times shown too much willingness to gut his organization's farm system to build winners at the major-league level -- the phrase "he left the team in worse shape than they were in when he arrived" seems to follow him around...

samram
04-06-2006, 10:48 AM
On the other hand, Pat Gillick seems to be a good choice to take them to the next level. The only knock I've heard on Gillick is that he has at times shown too much willingness to gut his organization's farm system to build winners at the major-league level -- the phrase "he left the team in worse shape than they were in when he arrived" seems to follow him around...
Right, but I think when your team has one WS win in 123 years, they're willing to part with minor leaguers to win at the major league level. By that I mean, bringing in top level players, not David Bell and Cory Lidle, which was Ed Wade's forte.

Edit: People there already love Rowand, from what I can tell.

EastCoastSoxFan
04-06-2006, 11:11 AM
Right, but I think when your team has one WS win in 123 years, they're willing to part with minor leaguers to win at the major league level. By that I mean, bringing in top level players, not David Bell and Cory Lidle, which was Ed Wade's forte.

Edit: People there already love Rowand, from what I can tell.
True, but Kenny has seemed to find the right balance between winning in the present and planning for the future -- with the Rowand trade being a prime example. We traded a player in his prime for a player who will help us in the present while at the same time promoting a player we think will be our centerfielder both now and in the future.
And yes, around here both fans and media alike love Rowand so far. I believe he has already made at least two appearances on Daily News Live (the show called Tribune Live in Chicago)...

samram
04-06-2006, 11:48 AM
True, but Kenny has seemed to find the right balance between winning in the present and planning for the future -- with the Rowand trade being a prime example. We traded a player in his prime for a player who will help us in the present while at the same time promoting a player we think will be our centerfielder both now and in the future.
And yes, around here both fans and media alike love Rowand so far. I believe he has already made at least two appearances on Daily News Live (the show called Tribune Live in Chicago)...

Well, that's what I think Gillick will do. Howard, Utley, Myers, Floyd, and Madson have to become contributors this year and Wade wouldn't have let any of those pitchers have that chance.

Oh, and Mike Lieberthal seems to be the object of many fans' wrath out there. They would take back that Millwood-Estrada trade in a second.

palehozenychicty
04-06-2006, 02:18 PM
Oh, and Mike Lieberthal seems to be the object of many fans' wrath out there. They would take back that Millwood-Estrada trade in a second.

Lieberthal has been terrible for the last three years. Yet they signed him to an exorbitant deal, and he's only playing cause of it. sad. heard that miguel olivo might be available.