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View Full Version : Cardinals' KMOX-to-KTRS Transition: A Mess


Viva Medias B's
04-03-2006, 10:01 PM
According to Dan Caesar of the Post-Dispatch, the St. Louis Cardinals' brilliant move from KMOX-AM (1120) to KTRS-AM (550) has not (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/6955AA67283C3DB68625714100193E29?OpenDocument) gone exactly well. The biggest problem is that by leaving "The Voice of St. Louis" for "The Big 550," many people have lost their ability to hear the Cardinals over terrestrial radio. The team added affiliates to the Cardinal Radio Network in the outskirts of the St. Louis area, but people in states like Arkansas still cannot get the Redbirds.

MrRoboto83
04-03-2006, 10:43 PM
According to Dan Caesar of the Post-Dispatch, the St. Louis Cardinals' brilliant move from KMOX-AM (1120) to KTRS-AM (550) has not (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/6955AA67283C3DB68625714100193E29?OpenDocument) gone exactly well. The biggest problem is that by leaving "The Voice of St. Louis" for "The Big 550," many people have lost their ability to hear the Cardinals over terrestrial radio. The team added affiliates to the Cardinal Radio Network in the outskirts of the St. Louis area, but people in states like Arkansas still cannot get the Redbirds.

Kinda sounds like the Sox problems when we left WMAQ and went to WMVP 1000, ten years ago. now it is the opposite, we left a weak signal, strong broadcasting team to go to a great signal and a not so great broadcasting team. Heck, I bet Cardinal Fans in East St. Louis can pick up Sox Broadcast better than their own.

Fenway
04-04-2006, 01:16 PM
The Red Sox are moving in 2007 and also will have an ownership stake in the station but they are moving to FM. This is going to cause problems in New Hampshire and Maine.

doublem23
04-04-2006, 01:20 PM
The worst part of it all is that over Spring, every now and then I would pick up Cardinal games in Peoria and I would hear John Rooney, thinking I had the Sox, only to be disappointed. :(:

lostletters
04-04-2006, 05:36 PM
The sox moving to 670 broadcast wise, was brilliant. I was talking to Lorna Gladstone (she is the station manager for the chicago air america radio station). She was telling me that they have the strongest signal in the country, and can be heard coast to coast. By moving to 670 the Sox may have garunteed themselves a nation wide fanbase in the long run. Of course the broadcast team is awful, but if feedback is negative for singleton in the long run, I cannot see him lasting.

The Cards moving to a low power was a huge mistake and might have a tremendous negative impact on the team.

SouthSide_HitMen
04-04-2006, 06:14 PM
The Red Sox are moving in 2007 and also will have an ownership stake in the station but they are moving to FM. This is going to cause problems in New Hampshire and Maine.

Penny Smart, pound foolish. If Red Sox "nation" is shut out of summer broadcasts that will lower demand in the long run (as well as taking all games off of free TV). The Cardinals will also suffer longterm if they do not revert back to KMOX. The reason both teams have such large followings and great attendance is due to the fact they have a 200 - 300 mile radius of fans in all directions with no competition. If those people are shut out of broadcasts, they will drop off in time. The strong fan base is NOT due to the performance on the field (1 Red Sox World Championship since 1918 and the last Cardinal title was in 1982 - before that in the late 1960s).

Hear me now and believe me later.

Fenway
04-04-2006, 11:11 PM
If the Red Sox are smart ( and every indiction is they are ) they may try to sign up high power FM stations in Northern New England and keep the 50,000 watt AM station in Hartford to cover any holes in Northern New England.

It *appears* they want to set up NESN Radio and go after WEEI. The 92.9 signal they are moving to will also help them in the western suburbs that WEEI has had problems with for years because they have to protect KOA in Denver.

The Red Sox not being on free TV stinks for people on fixed income but :(:

I am surprised the Cardinals didn't make 550 an all sports station as trying to compete against KMOX in the day is folly.


BTW the new Sportsnet New York ( which Comcast is a part owner ) got off to a great start yesterday. They lost the signal from Shea and then when to a 1986 game between the Mets and Cubs.




Penny Smart, pound foolish. If Red Sox "nation" is shut out of summer broadcasts that will lower demand in the long run (as well as taking all games off of free TV). The Cardinals will also suffer longterm if they do not revert back to KMOX. The reason both teams have such large followings and great attendance is due to the fact they have a 200 - 300 mile radius of fans in all directions with no competition. If those people are shut out of broadcasts, they will drop off in time. The strong fan base is NOT due to the performance on the field (1 Red Sox World Championship since 1918 and the last Cardinal title was in 1982 - before that in the late 1960s).

Hear me now and believe me later.

Viva Medias B's
04-05-2006, 08:29 AM
I am surprised the Cardinals didn't make 550 an all sports station as trying to compete against KMOX in the day is folly.

There are two other sports talk stations in St. Louis already. KMOX still dominates the ratings in St. Louis overall, but I think KTRS' Frank O. Pinion beats them in afternoon drive. It will be interesting to see long term how the Cardinals' departure from "The Voice of St. Louis" affects the station's ratings.

tebman
04-05-2006, 11:24 AM
The sox moving to 670 broadcast wise, was brilliant. I was talking to Lorna Gladstone (she is the station manager for the chicago air america radio station). She was telling me that they have the strongest signal in the country, and can be heard coast to coast. By moving to 670 the Sox may have garunteed themselves a nation wide fanbase in the long run. Of course the broadcast team is awful, but if feedback is negative for singleton in the long run, I cannot see him lasting.

The Cards moving to a low power was a huge mistake and might have a tremendous negative impact on the team.
This came up in a thread last year when the Cardinals' move was announced. The Cardinals took the fast cash offered in the deal to move to the smaller station instead of looking at the long-term effect on their wide-ranging fan base.

I'm an aging radio techie, and I've seen the big AM broadcast stations slowly withering from ignorance and fast-buck hustling for the last 30 years. The people who make the decisions in these matters are strictly salesmen who want only to close the deal -- they don't understand the bigger opportunities available to them on a signal that easily covers 12-20 *states* at night.

As much as they annoy me, I have to give credit to WGN for using what they got to get what they want, to paraphrase James Brown. They know they have a huge signal, and they shrewdly market the Cubs all across the midwest. I just hope whoever's running WSCR (though it'll always be WMAQ to me :(: ) has a glimmer of that same understanding, at least for the White Sox's sake.

IA_soxfan
04-05-2006, 03:51 PM
The sox moving to 670 broadcast wise, was brilliant. I was talking to Lorna Gladstone (she is the station manager for the chicago air america radio station). She was telling me that they have the strongest signal in the country, and can be heard coast to coast. By moving to 670 the Sox may have garunteed themselves a nation wide fanbase in the long run. Of course the broadcast team is awful, but if feedback is negative for singleton in the long run, I cannot see him lasting.

The Cards moving to a low power was a huge mistake and might have a tremendous negative impact on the team.

Nationwide? As in I could pick broadcasts up here in Madison, WI? That would be great news, as I'm pretty much at the mercy of WGN, ESPN, FOX, or friggin' mlb.com gamecast.

tebman
04-05-2006, 04:01 PM
Nationwide? As in I could pick broadcasts up here in Madison, WI? That would be great news, as I'm pretty much at the mercy of WGN, ESPN, FOX, or friggin' mlb.com gamecast.
It's true. At night you should easily be able to pick up WSCR (670 AM) in Madison. As long as the weather is clear and your radio is not close to a computer or other electronic gadget that would cause buzzing interference, it should sound just fine. And there should be no question about it on a car radio.

The knock against WMVP when the Sox were on there was that at night the antenna pattern changes, sending nearly all the signal to the east. WMVP has to do that because it shares the 1000 kHz frequency with KOMO in Seattle, and at night they would interfere with each other. So it follows that you'd have a hard time picking up WMVP in Madison at night.

Viva Medias B's
04-05-2006, 06:46 PM
It's true. At night you should easily be able to pick up WSCR (670 AM) in Madison.

You can pick up WSCR and Chicago's other 50,000-watt blowtorches during the day in Madison.

Viva Medias B's
04-07-2006, 10:12 AM
It looks like the KTRS thing continues to be a joke.

Link (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/AAEA68BC878B4D90862571480016DF97?OpenDocument&highlight=2%2C%22KMOX%22)

Fenway
04-07-2006, 10:22 AM
It looks like the KTRS thing continues to be a joke.

Link (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/AAEA68BC878B4D90862571480016DF97?OpenDocument&highlight=2%2C%22KMOX%22)

The Phillies went through this 5 years ago when they moved from clear channel 1210 to 950 and fans in the northeast part of the City of Philadelphia couldn't hear the games at night ( after 3 years the Phillies went back to 1210 )

In the late 70's the Red Sox moved from 850 to 1510 which was also a disaster and then it got worse when Haywood Sullivan gave the rights to a FM station on CAPE COD!!! owned by a golfing buddy ( WPLM )

http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WPLM&service=FM&status=L&hours=U



Next year the Red Sox move to FM which will cover the metro area fine. It is obvious that MLB wants people miles away to pay for brioadcasts. Problem is why should a Red Sox fan in Maine pay to hear the other team's announcers 81 times? XM has the channels to provide everybody's home feed since the college channels are vacant all summer.

tebman
04-07-2006, 11:36 AM
It is obvious that MLB wants people miles away to pay for brioadcasts. Problem is why should a Red Sox fan in Maine pay to hear the other team's announcers 81 times? XM has the channels to provide everybody's home feed since the college channels are vacant all summer.
That question is rhetorical, of course. MLB, the NFL, the NBA, the NHL, and all the wannabe leagues (AHL, WNBA, NPF, etc.) are run by salesmen who see the sport as another commodity to be sold. If they weren't selling this, they'd be selling tires or tuna fish or whatever the market might think is hot.

Sadly that level of thinking seeped into radio a long time ago, and now decisions are made that don't meet the common-sense test but make a bunch of upfront money for somebody.

I'm grateful the White Sox are back on WSCR (nee WMAQ) with a big signal. The other cities are not as fortunate.

I_Liked_Manuel
04-07-2006, 11:37 AM
The sox moving to 670 broadcast wise, was brilliant. I was talking to Lorna Gladstone (she is the station manager for the chicago air america radio station). She was telling me that they have the strongest signal in the country, and can be heard coast to coast. By moving to 670 the Sox may have garunteed themselves a nation wide fanbase in the long run.

670 has a strong signal, but don't get ahead of yourself. it doesn't even stretch from des moines to detroit.

tebman
04-07-2006, 11:44 AM
670 has a strong signal, but don't get ahead of yourself. it doesn't even stretch from des moines to detroit.
Yeah, "coast to coast" is an overstatement, but on a night without lightning storms WSCR really can be heard clearly in at least a dozen states. Daytime is a different story, but it's at night that the AM broadcast band can really flex its muscles. It's just a pity that the broadcast industry and the FCC have allowed so much of it to go to seed.

Reni
04-10-2006, 08:47 PM
growing up in STL - KMOX was synonymous with the Cardinals......so it is so odd to think of them on another station now.

Chisox1500
04-10-2006, 08:59 PM
KMOX couldn't even be heard as well as WMAQ most nights in Columbia, Mo. I'm not sure what the fuss is. In 10-15 years radio will be mostly satellite anyway.

samram
04-10-2006, 10:50 PM
You can pick up WSCR and Chicago's other 50,000-watt blowtorches during the day in Madison.

Yeah. I lived in the Mad City for three years and listened to the Score almost everyday. The signal was fine.

Reni
04-11-2006, 12:37 AM
when I was a kid I used to listen to this late night talk guy on KMOX, and he would get called from Arkansas and Tennessee who were able to pick it up and I was always amazed.......

Fenway
05-06-2006, 12:17 PM
The Red Sox deal to move to FM fell apart yesterday

http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2006/05/06/sox_likely_to_move_games_to_wrko/

The Red Sox are likely to move their games to radio station WRKO-AM after the 2006 season, after one of two main bidders for the broadcast rights said yesterday it would walk away from the negotiating table.

The owner of radio station WBOS-FM, Greater Media Inc., said it no longer will pursue a deal with the Red Sox. Greater Media had been the favorite to win the deal this week, but during several hours of meetings at Fenway Park in the owners' luxury suite Thursday, the two sides could not agree on final terms.

TDog
05-06-2006, 01:13 PM
The Red Sox deal to move to FM fell apart yesterday ...

When the White Sox went from WMAQ to FM stations in Chicago in 1971, I still listened to the games, but I couldn't have heard them at night in when I was Michigan or Dallas as I could have if the game had been on WCFL (WMVP or whatever they call it now will always be WCFL to me). The last time I was in St. Louis (1999), I could faintly hear WMAQ faintly in the middle of the day.

Some might see (unintelligent) design in making it harder to get games over the air as MLB attempts to sell its subscriptions and the subscription radio people try to take our free radio away from us.

Paulwny
05-06-2006, 09:13 PM
The sox moving to 670 broadcast wise, was brilliant. I was talking to Lorna Gladstone (she is the station manager for the chicago air america radio station). She was telling me that they have the strongest signal in the country, and can be heard coast to coast. By moving to 670 the Sox may have garunteed themselves a nation wide fanbase in the long run. Of course the broadcast team is awful, but if feedback is negative for singleton in the long run, I cannot see him lasting.

The Cards moving to a low power was a huge mistake and might have a tremendous negative impact on the team.

Tell Gladstone that reception of 670 is much worse then am 1000 in the Buffalo, NY area. It's 9pm est and I still haven't received the broadcast. I'd have been listening to am 1000 for an hour. I also get to listen to the mets' game on am 660 which at times overpowers am 670, not to mention the occassional broadcasting by some Spanish station that makes it's way onto 670.:whiner:

Viva Medias B's
05-06-2006, 09:29 PM
About 20 years ago, on the way from here to Florida via car, we got up early in Valdosta, Georgia, and went on our way to Fr. Lauderdale. In Southern Georgia/Northern Florida on I-75, when it was still dark, you could hear WMAQ clear as a bell.

TornLabrum
05-06-2006, 10:56 PM
Tell Gladstone that reception of 670 is much worse then am 1000 in the Buffalo, NY area. It's 9pm est and I still haven't received the broadcast. I'd have been listening to am 1000 for an hour. I also get to listen to the mets' game on am 660 which at times overpowers am 670, not to mention the occassional broadcasting by some Spanish station that makes it's way onto 670.:whiner:

Both 660 and 670 are clear channels. Since NYC is closer to Buffalo than Chicago, and since their signals are only 10 KHz apart, they naturally interfere with each other in Buffalo. I'm kind of surprised you get 670 at all.

On the other hand, 1000 KHz has a signal that is directed eastward at night, making its signal clearer in Buffalo than it is in DeKalb, IL.

Viva Medias B's
05-06-2006, 11:13 PM
On the other hand, 1000 KHz has a signal that is directed eastward at night, making its signal clearer in Buffalo than it is in DeKalb, IL.

I guess that's another example of ESPN's eastward bias!

:tongue:

Fenway
05-08-2006, 11:38 AM
Red Sox stay on AM New Hampshire, Vermont and Maine rejoice

http://www.weei.com/Article.asp?id=212242&spid=

Fenway
05-08-2006, 03:13 PM
Tell Gladstone that reception of 670 is much worse then am 1000 in the Buffalo, NY area. It's 9pm est and I still haven't received the broadcast. I'd have been listening to am 1000 for an hour. I also get to listen to the mets' game on am 660 which at times overpowers am 670, not to mention the occassional broadcasting by some Spanish station that makes it's way onto 670.:whiner:

The problem Paul has in Buffalo can be traced to CFTR 680 in Toronto. They don't go to night pattern until 9:30 PM and will simply kill 670 in Western NY

http://www.radio-locator.com/pats/CFTR_AM_FD.gif

even at night the signal is strong in Buffalo even though they are protecting WRKO Boston on 680