PDA

View Full Version : Schilling Blames Bud


Daver
01-18-2002, 11:11 AM
For making a mess of baseball.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/comment/bodley/2002-01-18-bodley.htm

Jerry_Manuel
01-18-2002, 11:33 AM
I don't care what Curt Schilling thinks, as a player he'll blame the owners and vice versa. Bud Selig has screwed up things this year with all this contraction and the "we're losing money" crap. But the game overall has been in trouble for a long time.

czalgosz
01-18-2002, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
I don't care what Curt Schilling thinks, as a player he'll blame the owners and vice versa. Bud Selig has screwed up things this year with all this contraction and the "we're losing money" crap. But the game overall has been in trouble for a long time.

And Schilling has been vocal in the past in saying that the players shouldn't give up anything.

I don't like what the owners have done either, but the MLBPA should stop acting like nothing's wrong when clearly there is. They also should stop acting like it's 1902 instead of 2002 - no big-league ballplayer is going to starve to death or have to work winters if they give concessions to the owners. Those days are over, and the players should stop acting like victims and try to be proactive to make things better.

As misguided as the owners are, at least they are putting solutions on the table. The players have their blinders firmly in place and are not budging at all.

rdivaldi
01-18-2002, 12:12 PM
The player's union is a corrupt bunch of thieves. How much longer will the American public keep buying their "poor us" garbage. These guys need to get it through their thick skulls that the owners will make more money than them. Why? Because they are the owners. Unions are corrupt dinosaurs, symbols of a past era where workers were working 80 hour weeks for 2 cents an hour. They are no longer needed in modern society, I suggest we get rid of the players union first.

duke of dorwood
01-18-2002, 12:18 PM
reinsy

He loves me, though

duke of dorwood
01-18-2002, 12:19 PM
:reinsy

As I said he loves me

Daver
01-18-2002, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by rdivaldi
The player's union is a corrupt bunch of thieves. How much longer will the American public keep buying their "poor us" garbage. These guys need to get it through their thick skulls that the owners will make more money than them. Why? Because they are the owners. Unions are corrupt dinosaurs, symbols of a past era where workers were working 80 hour weeks for 2 cents an hour. They are no longer needed in modern society, I suggest we get rid of the players union first.

Labor unions still have a place in the modern world,letting the actions of the MLBPA cause a broad comment about all labor unions is ridiculous.

Paulwny
01-18-2002, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by daver


Labor unions still have a place in the modern world,letting the actions of the MLBPA cause a broad comment about all labor unions is ridiculous.

Totally agree !!!!

rdivaldi
01-18-2002, 12:51 PM
Labor unions still have a place in the modern world,

I whole-heartedly disagree, I believe that their usefullness disappeared with the advent of minimum wage and the 40 hour work week.

Everyone has a right to their opinion.

Daver
01-18-2002, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by rdivaldi
Labor unions still have a place in the modern world,

I whole-heartedly disagree, I believe that their usefullness disappeared with the advent of minimum wage and the 40 hour work week.

Everyone has a right to their opinion.

Even when their wrong.

as amember of a trade union I can say this,if it wasn't for the union I would have no Medical ins.,no retirement benefits,and no say in the prevailing wage.

Perhaps look into the subject before making a statement saying they have no place.

Cheryl
01-18-2002, 01:00 PM
The minimum wage and the 40 hour work week (and who gets one of those, anymore, anyway?) would disappear if the unions did.

I think both sides are to blame for the current mess that is major eague baseball. Sure, players aren't working winter jobs anymore, but the owners keep crying poor while they and other people (including former owners) fall all over spending mind-boggling amounts of money to buy teams or pay individual players. Why should I believe Selig saying baseball lost half a billion when someone just bid 800 million for the Red Sox?

rdivaldi
01-18-2002, 01:03 PM
as amember of a trade union I can say this,if it wasn't for the union I would have no Medical ins.,no retirement benefits,and no say in the prevailing wage.

Funny, yet I am not a unionized worker (nor my wife) and we both have insurance and retirement plans.

Perhaps look into the subject before making a statement saying they have no place.

Perhaps look at the entire scheme of things before making a statement that they do have a place.

Daver
01-18-2002, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by rdivaldi
as amember of a trade union I can say this,if it wasn't for the union I would have no Medical ins.,no retirement benefits,and no say in the prevailing wage.

Funny, yet I am not a unionized worker (nor my wife) and we both have insurance and retirement plans.

Perhaps look into the subject before making a statement saying they have no place.

Perhaps look at the entire scheme of things before making a statement that they do have a place.

I'm happy for you.

Look at the entire scheme of what?The fact that you have no clue what your talking about when it comes to organized labor?
I figured that out already.

Paulwny
01-18-2002, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by rdivaldi
[I Funny, yet I am not a unionized worker (nor my wife) and we both have insurance and retirement plans.


I wasn't unionized but, I had to contribute to my health ins. while union people paid nothing for the same ins.

rdivaldi
01-18-2002, 01:13 PM
Look at the entire scheme of what?

The work situation in the country. Your statement that the union got you your benefits is short-sighted.

The fact that you have no clue what your talking about when it comes to organized labor? I figured that out already.

And I figured out that you're a brainwashed laborer.

Anyway, insulting each other isn't going to solve anything.

You're a good guy daver, and I won't rag on this anymore if it bugs you. We each just have our own "strong" opinion.

Peace...

Daver
01-18-2002, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by rdivaldi
[I].

Peace...

I can agree to disagree.

rdivaldi
01-18-2002, 01:18 PM
I can agree to disagree.

Isn't that what it usually comes to?

LOL!

czalgosz
01-18-2002, 01:41 PM
Well, I like the idea of unions, but too often unions end up doing what's best for union leadership rather than what's best for the rank-and-file. On the whole, however, union workers in manual labor positions are much better off than their non-union counterparts. For office workers, I can see how that would seem kind of distant, but believe me, when you work with your hands, there's a big difference.

Anyway, to equate the MLBPA with other unions is silly, especially in this day and age. Professional athletes are the only people that have the best of both worlds - the protection of a CBA, but the ability to negotiate an individual contract. Every other union worker gets paid on a sliding scale based on seniority, with certain cost-of-living adjustments. There is some sort of parity between the workers. What other union has the top-paid workers making 100 times more than the bottom? Isn't that huge disparity the kind of stuff that a union is supposed to prevent?

Look, once the players started making 7 figures, they became, in essence, investors in the sport. There's nothing wrong with that, but they should stop pretending it's a worker-management relationship, because it stopped being that when the reserve clause was thrown out.

ma-gaga
01-18-2002, 02:49 PM
Are you seriously trying to say Unions are useless?

The formation of the union has created so many benefits for us that we take for granted every day it's not even funny.

Insurance, 401k's, vacation benefits, minimum wages, job security, workplace safety, jobs. The list is endless. Good lord, I don't belong to a union either, but my last job didn't have ANY benefits and I can't imagine people living that way. Unions help protect the blue collar employees, and if you think they are useless, you really do need some help.

Even baseball players need someone to help them out. The thing that bothers me with the Players Union is that they are primarily looking out for protecting their 'star' players. This union is high profile and is NOT a good example of a typical union.

czalgosz
01-18-2002, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by ma-gaga

The thing that bothers me with the Players Union is that they are primarily looking out for protecting their 'star' players.

There's the rub; what the MLBPA is desperately trying to avoid is the owners driving a wedge between the stars and the marginal players and minor-leaguers.

Let's say the owners get the luxury tax increased, and a salary floor is put in as part of the bargaining. The end result of that would be that the top players, like Arod and Giambi, would continue to get their big paydays, but marginal veterans would find themselves out of work, replaced with a cheaper minor-leaguer. They'd have to accept pay cuts just to stay in the game, because the rich clubs wouldn't want to pay a tax for the luxury of having the Brian Jordans of the world, and the poor clubs are trying to keep their payroll as low as possible.

Then you've got a situation where the star ballplayers like a deal because they still get their big checks, and the rookies like it because there's a lot of turnover, but the middle-range veterans are left out in the cold. Then, if the MLBPA supports it, they risk alienating part of their membership.

That's why the MLBPA is so resistant to change. The delicate balance that currently exists between controlled salaries through arbitration and free market increases is the only one that benefits all players, because it allows for exponential increases in salary for all players, not just the stars.

Soxboyrob
01-18-2002, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by ma-gaga
Are you seriously trying to say Unions are useless?

The formation of the union has created so many benefits for us that we take for granted every day it's not even funny.

Insurance, 401k's, vacation benefits, minimum wages, job security, workplace safety, jobs. The list is endless. Good lord, I don't belong to a union either, but my last job didn't have ANY benefits and I can't imagine people living that way. Unions help protect the blue collar employees, and if you think they are useless, you really do need some help.



I think his point was that although unions had a lot to do w/ the origination of such benefits, they are not necessarily the reason that we still have them. I've worked in three different careers, none of which have been unionized, and have always had all of the benefits you mentioned above. Unions still serve a purpose for some, but probably tend to inflate wages to a point whereby they are a bit off of the standard supply and demand curve for some job positions/trades/etcetera. I tend to think that these days, without a union, supply and demand for skilled workers in the trades would ultimately dictate that they receive fair pay and benefits. JMO