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AuroraSoxFan
03-30-2006, 05:04 PM
I was tied up all day. Can anyone tell me how Contreras did and how we blew the lead in the 9th? Any updates would be great. Thanks.

Brian

DaleJRFan
03-30-2006, 05:06 PM
I watched the first 4 innings on TV while on my lunch break. He looked good, very good. Velocity was up towards 94/95, good control, worked the corners. His forkball was nasty as usual. He's ready to go. Can't wait to see what this year holds for Contreras after the second half last season.

The Dude
03-30-2006, 05:07 PM
I was tied up all day. Can anyone tell me how Contreras did and how we blew the lead in the 9th? Any updates would be great. Thanks.

Brian
Contreras threw a lot of pitches and battled a lot, Thornton looked pretty good, and Jenks blew it in the 9th. Gload gave us 2 of the 3 runs with one swing.

salty99
03-30-2006, 05:09 PM
Finished in a 3-3 tie in 10.

Chicken Dinner
03-30-2006, 05:11 PM
Jenks again huh?? Well it looks like spring training is officially over. 2 exhibition games and then it starts.

AuroraSoxFan
03-30-2006, 05:11 PM
Thanks for the info guys. Jenks really has to level out. Not the end of the world but he's not doing his job. Anyone know how McCarthy threw?

1917
03-30-2006, 05:12 PM
Contreras threw a lot of pitches and battled a lot, Thornton looked pretty good, and Jenks blew it in the 9th. Gload gave us 2 of the 3 runs with one swing.

I feel worse about Jenks this year then I did about Shingo last year, and that was pretty bad....

DumpJerry
03-30-2006, 05:16 PM
I feel worse about Jenks this year then I did about Shingo last year, and that was pretty bad....
Take a deep breath everyone. Fireballers never turn it all the way up in Spring Training because of the wear and tear on the arm.

After Ozzie's little "get thee to Jenny Craig" rant, there's been no news of management being upset with him or his performance.

Come Sunday, he'll be the guy we saw last year.

BanditJimmy
03-30-2006, 05:22 PM
Take a deep breath everyone. Fireballers never turn it all the way up in Spring Training because of the wear and tear on the arm.

After Ozzie's little "get thee to Jenny Craig" rant, there's been no news of management being upset with him or his performance.

Come Sunday, he'll be the guy we saw last year.



This isn't Nintendo. Not sure how all of sudden Jenks can hit the Reset button on the game console.

FoulTerritory
03-30-2006, 05:22 PM
Take a deep breath everyone. Fireballers never turn it all the way up in Spring Training because of the wear and tear on the arm.

After Ozzie's little "get thee to Jenny Craig" rant, there's been no news of management being upset with him or his performance.

Come Sunday, he'll be the guy we saw last year.

Maybe, but I still have this dreadful memory of 2003 spring training. My brother and I were sitting right behind a scout with a gun, and noticed that Koch's fastball was topping at about 93. My brother simply said, "if thats his true FB velocity, we're in big trouble. A power pitcher will fail without his power pitch." We all know what unfolded. This scenario is what gives me The Fear.

I think practice and settling into the season will allow him to hone is control a bit, but getting back a lost 99 mph fastball, especially when one is overweight . . . is easier said than done.

Lip Man 1
03-30-2006, 05:25 PM
Since the middle of the month this is the 6th time the Sox blew a lead or the game in the late innings. Say what you want but I haven't seen that much improvement since two weeks ago.

It's almost for real now and to me, at least, this has become a major concern.

Today McCarthy gave up a run in the 8th and Jenks gave up a run in the 9th.

Maybe it's the light Arizona air...maybe not...one thing for sure, we'll all start finding out Sunday.

Lip

PAPChiSox729
03-30-2006, 05:30 PM
Jenks did strike out 2 guys in the ninth. And if Valido held onto the throw-out attempt by Lucy, that runner on base probably would have been gone. If I remember correctly, the RBI-single by Holliday was off of a hanging curveball. Jenks didn't look good, but he was a little better, IMO.

MsSoxVixen22
03-30-2006, 05:32 PM
If Jenks doesn't "improve" and McCarthy can't handle being closer than KW better get a lefty who can. They can't wait around TOO long to see if one or both of them can be closer. Just my 2 cents

PAPChiSox729
03-30-2006, 05:35 PM
If Jenks doesn't "improve" and McCarthy can't handle being closer than KW better get a lefty who can. They can't wait around TOO long to see if one or both of them can be closer. Just my 2 cents

Are you talking about Cotts? Or is McCarthy being considered to close??

SBSoxFan
03-30-2006, 05:36 PM
Say what you want but I haven't seen that much improvement since two weeks ago.

Lip
Jenks only gave up 1 run today. :D:

MarySwiss
03-30-2006, 05:36 PM
Take a deep breath everyone. Fireballers never turn it all the way up in Spring Training because of the wear and tear on the arm.

After Ozzie's little "get thee to Jenny Craig" rant, there's been no news of management being upset with him or his performance.

Come Sunday, he'll be the guy we saw last year.

Well said, cyberpal. But look at it this way, if we couldn't find something to worry about, we wouldn't be Sox fans!

In other news, I had lunch today at my Sox sports bar hangout in Tempe with some pals, including the Indians fan who plagued my existence last year. He's back to plague it again, insisting--among other gems--that the Sox will suffer a letdown, that there is potential for injury, that the bullpen has problems, and that losing Coco Crisp was not that big a deal (?!?).

My responses (in order)--yeah, right; of course; who needs a bullpen when you have this starting pitching staff; and oh, really? I then threw in a gratuitous, "SI picked the Sox, and Penthouse picked Cleveland." (BTW, I have no idea if the Penthouse comment is accurate, but my brother said it was.)

With the war of words heating up, can Opening Day be far behind? :D:

DumpJerry
03-30-2006, 05:38 PM
Let's get one thing clear right now: Jenks is not Koch. Koch=straight fastball, nothing else. Jenks, wicked breaking stuff and dancing fastball.

What makes Jenks so effective (and Koch did not have this in his arsenal) is that he has the potential to send the sphere at you at 101 MPH and then a curve that will fall off the table. You never know which is coming, hence the batter is a bit stressed. With Koch, the batter knows what's coming and knows where and when to swing.

I'm not worried about Bobby (yet).

TaylorStSox
03-30-2006, 05:44 PM
Let's get one thing clear right now: Jenks is not Koch. Koch=straight fastball, nothing else. Jenks, wicked breaking stuff and dancing fastball.

What makes Jenks so effective (and Koch did not have this in his arsenal) is that he has the potential to send the sphere at you at 101 MPH and then a curve that will fall off the table. You never know which is coming, hence the batter is a bit stressed. With Koch, the batter knows what's coming and knows where and when to swing.

I'm not worried about Bobby (yet).

You're dead wrong. Koch had a nice breaking ball when he was throwing hard. Jenks does too, but he has no control over it. They're alot more alike than you're making it out to be.

I'm real concerned about the pen.

Politte - career year; noticeable change in velocity and too much reliance on slider.

McCarthy - 22. Never been in the pen. doesn't really have dominant stuff. Yes, I know he struck out a ton of guys in the minors.

Hermanson - *insert overused Hawk catchphrase here*

Thornton - Gotta throw strikes to get guys out.

Cotts - Reliable; Good arm; No out pitch. You can't close without an out pitch.

Logan - Only needs to get 1 or 2 outs a game. I'm not too worried about a LOOGY.

IlliniSox4Life
03-30-2006, 05:44 PM
While I agree that I would like to be seeing better things from Bobby right now, I don't think we should panic. Kenny and Coop will find a way. Remember, last year we started with Shingo as closer and won the World Series. Hermanson ended up closing for most of the season and then this kid Bobby Jenks filled in at the end and recorded the final out of the season.

What I'm trying to say is, every team has spots that are weaker than others. Fortunately for us, our weak spot seems to be in the pitcher that plays for one or two innings. I'll take a good starting pitcher and a bad closer over a bad starting pitcher and a good closer any day of the week.

TaylorStSox
03-30-2006, 05:46 PM
While I agree that I would like to be seeing better things from Bobby right now, I don't think we should panic. Kenny and Coop will find a way. Remember, last year we started with Shingo as closer and won the World Series. Hermanson ended up closing for most of the season and then this kid Bobby Jenks filled in at the end and recorded the final out of the season.

What I'm trying to say is, every team has spots that are weaker than others. Fortunately for us, our weak spot seems to be in the pitcher that plays for one or two innings. I'll take a good starting pitcher and a bad closer over a bad starting pitcher and a good closer any day of the week.

We were reactionary and got lucky. Hermanson was able to get guys out without good stuff. If we don't catch some breaks. His record looks much different. Jenks = lightning in a bottle. It's the wrong philosophy to wait for things to happen. They need to be proactive and find some pen help.

Beautox
03-30-2006, 05:59 PM
I dont post often im more of a lerker but im going to say this about Jenks; he was'nt at 100% today but he looked good. He worked in a few cut fastballs and he brought the 86mph 12-6 hook, he struck out two and if our farm hand Valido had held onto the ball he would've been out of the inning. Also Matt Thornton had another scoreless outing with 2IP (i believe hes at 3, since Coop has really had time to work with him) he fanned 3, and his motion was really fluid and he came into a bases loaded situation and got out. Go Matt!

delben91
03-30-2006, 06:25 PM
You're dead wrong. Koch had a nice breaking ball when he was throwing hard. Jenks does too, but he has no control over it. They're alot more alike than you're making it out to be.

I'm real concerned about the pen.

Politte - career year; noticeable change in velocity and too much reliance on slider.

McCarthy - 22. Never been in the pen. doesn't really have dominant stuff. Yes, I know he struck out a ton of guys in the minors.

Hermanson - *insert overused Hawk catchphrase here*

Thornton - Gotta throw strikes to get guys out.

Cotts - Reliable; Good arm; No out pitch. You can't close without an out pitch.

Logan - Only needs to get 1 or 2 outs a game. I'm not too worried about a LOOGY.
I have doubts about the bullpen too, but from reading your post it sounds like you have no faith in any of the Sox relievers except maybe Logan and maaaaaybe Cotts. Maybe I'm misreading it, but if not...ouch.

champagne030
03-30-2006, 09:53 PM
You're dead wrong. Koch had a nice breaking ball when he was throwing hard. Jenks does too, but he has no control over it. They're alot more alike than you're making it out to be.

I'm real concerned about the pen.

Politte - career year; noticeable change in velocity and too much reliance on slider.

McCarthy - 22. Never been in the pen. doesn't really have dominant stuff. Yes, I know he struck out a ton of guys in the minors.

Hermanson - *insert overused Hawk catchphrase here*

Thornton - Gotta throw strikes to get guys out.

Cotts - Reliable; Good arm; No out pitch. You can't close without an out pitch.

Logan - Only needs to get 1 or 2 outs a game. I'm not too worried about a LOOGY.

I agree about Jenks and Koch's being similar (when Koch was in his prime), but Jenks does have a better curve ball (not a lot of control, but a better pitch). I'll go with the whole "it's spring training" theme, but we'll know soon enough. Jenks comes out of the pen in this first series throwing 92-94 fastballs and we'll be in the market for a closer. Let the dark cloud thread bashers unleash their 'rain'. I'm just saying we'll know if Jenks is at 97+ he'll be fine, but 94- he's in trouble.

DickAllen72
03-30-2006, 10:00 PM
I agree about Jenks and Koch's being similar (when Koch was in his prime), but Jenks does have a better curve ball (not a lot of control, but a better pitch). I'll go with the whole "it's spring training" theme, but we'll know soon enough. Jenks comes out of the pen in this first series throwing 92-94 fastballs and we'll be in the market for a closer. Let the dark cloud thread bashers unleash their 'rain'. I'm just saying we'll know if Jenks is at 97+ he'll be fine, but 94- he's in trouble.

How about at 95/96 which is where he probably is going to be for the first few weeks?

delben91
03-30-2006, 10:10 PM
For what it's worth...Link (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060330&content_id=1374856&vkey=spt2006news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws)

Bobby Jenks, who was working in his first of back-to-back games, allowed Matt Holliday's game-tying single in the ninth, blowing the save. Jenks was clocked at 97 to 98 mph. "He hung one pitch and got hit, but I like what I see," said Guillen of Jenks.

champagne030
03-30-2006, 10:14 PM
How about at 95/96 which is where he probably is going to be for the first few weeks?

Why is he going to be at 95/96 for the first few weeks?

champagne030
03-30-2006, 10:19 PM
For what it's worth...Link (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060330&content_id=1374856&vkey=spt2006news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws)

97-98 makes me feel :gulp: . Hopefully he'll have the same stuff as last year and be even better with the experience he gained last year.

DickAllen72
03-30-2006, 10:26 PM
Why is he going to be at 95/96 for the first few weeks?

It takes time for him to build up to 97+. He's already 94+ now.

DickAllen72
03-30-2006, 10:30 PM
For what it's worth...Link (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060330&content_id=1374856&vkey=spt2006news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws)

He wasn't clocked that high on the gun on TV, and that gun is usually a little on the high side. It didn't look like he was hitting 98 either, but who knows...

He's probably at 94/95 right now.

infohawk
03-30-2006, 10:48 PM
I feel worse about Jenks this year then I did about Shingo last year, and that was pretty bad....
I just watched the ninth inning and Jenks, while blowing the save, didn't look bad at all. He was in the mid-90s on the gun, struck out two and didn't issue any walks. The first batter of the inning singled and stole second when Robert Valido dropped the throw after a strikeout. Had he held onto the ball, the runner would have been out. Bobby struck out the next batter and then gave up a single to the final batter of the inning that scored the guy from second. The hitter was out after being trapped between first and second on the relay throw.

TaylorStSox
03-30-2006, 11:28 PM
For what it's worth...Link (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060330&content_id=1374856&vkey=spt2006news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws)

That's definitely a good sign. I still think we're a solid reliever away from a good pen though. It might not show up during the first month or so, but I still think they should be actively looking for somebody.

Hitmen77
03-31-2006, 10:07 AM
I agree about Jenks and Koch's being similar (when Koch was in his prime), but Jenks does have a better curve ball (not a lot of control, but a better pitch). I'll go with the whole "it's spring training" theme, but we'll know soon enough. Jenks comes out of the pen in this first series throwing 92-94 fastballs and we'll be in the market for a closer. Let the dark cloud thread bashers unleash their 'rain'. I'm just saying we'll know if Jenks is at 97+ he'll be fine, but 94- he's in trouble.

From today's Tribune (which matches what was said in the whitesox.com article):
DespiteBobby Jenks blowing a save in the ninth inning of a 3-3 tie with Colorado, manager Ozzie Guillen maintains faith in his closer. "One bad pitch," Guillen said. "His velocity was 97 or 98 m.p.h."
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-060330soxbits,1,3609385.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

and there's also a few words on Jenks in today's Sun-Times: http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-cowley31.html

Iwritecode
03-31-2006, 11:01 AM
Since the middle of the month this is the 6th time the Sox blew a lead or the game in the late innings. Say what you want but I haven't seen that much improvement since two weeks ago.

It's almost for real now and to me, at least, this has become a major concern.

Today McCarthy gave up a run in the 8th and Jenks gave up a run in the 9th.

Maybe it's the light Arizona air...maybe not...one thing for sure, we'll all start finding out Sunday.

Lip

Even Ozzie said that's because there are kids in the 8th/9th inning that aren't on the big league roster that are blowing the game. Either by pitching or defense. The latter seems to be what happened in this game.

Lip Man 1
03-31-2006, 01:41 PM
Iwritecode:

Which brings up another interesting point... WHY are those clowns in the game in the first place the last week of the spring? I mean it's not March 5th anymore is it?

Lip

Iwritecode
03-31-2006, 01:49 PM
Iwritecode:

Which brings up another interesting point... WHY are those clowns in the game in the first place the last week of the spring? I mean it's not March 5th anymore is it?

Lip

Honestly. I have no idea. They've already got the 25-man roster set so I guess they're just letting the starters get their work in without wearing them out before opening day? :dunno:

I guess only one person knows for sure.

:ozzie

Because I'm the ****ing manager thats why!

GoSox2K3
03-31-2006, 03:15 PM
Talk about comparing Jenks to the Shingo and Koch downfalls seems to indicate that people are forgetting that Bobby only has a few months experience above AA ball. His experiencing problems isn't the same to me as a veteran experiencing a sudden decline.

I would prefer that Jenks pitched like a seasoned veteran, but realistically I'm expecting some inconsistency from him. As long as he doesn't have a drop off in velocity, I won't hit the panic button just yet.