PDA

View Full Version : MLB initiates Steroid Investigation


daveeym
03-29-2006, 06:03 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2389391


About time.

RKMeibalane
03-29-2006, 06:06 PM
Finally.

daveeym
03-29-2006, 06:14 PM
Finally. I won't hold my breath though. I was a bit young to follow and know what was going on with Rose's investigation so is this similar? Is it something that can be trusted or is it likely to be a white washing of the issue where they end up with something like, "there was widespread use of steroids from stars to utility players," and they leave it at that?

MarySwiss
03-29-2006, 06:36 PM
Mitchell is the chairman of the board of the Walt Disney Company, the parent company of ESPN.

Well...

samram
03-29-2006, 07:31 PM
Well...

Yeah. This could get interesting. I don't like the possible conflict of interest here. Mitchell, as COB of Disney, is supposed to be looking out for the best interests of the shareholders. Concluding that one of its lines of business is involved with a sport mired in a scandal and, in particular, a player who is the poster boy for the mess, can hardly be good for business. Or maybe it doesn't matter, but I would rather the investigator be completely independent.

Ol' No. 2
03-29-2006, 08:07 PM
My guess: The ground rules will permit investigation of players but not owners. Anyone want to call me cynical?

samram
03-29-2006, 08:28 PM
My guess: The ground rules will permit investigation of players but not owners. Anyone want to call me cynical?
No. I think there will be scope limitations that would stun a reincarnated Arthur Andersen.

Ol' No. 2
03-29-2006, 08:30 PM
No. I think there will be scope limitations that would stun a reincarnated Arthur Andersen.Selig is more than happy to send players to the gallows. His main concern is to protect himself and the owners. If they should become subjects of the investigation, look out.

samram
03-29-2006, 08:47 PM
Selig is more than happy to send players to the gallows. His main concern is to protect himself and the owners. If they should become subjects of the investigation, look out.
Right. If I wasn't clear, I was saying you weren't being cynical in your last post (or if you were, you were right to be).:smile: I certainly think if things turned toward implicating owner involvement, we could see a sudden change in who's leading the investigation. Like I said though, having Mitchell lead the inquiry gives the owners a lot of leverage ("Gee, Fox really seems interested in expanding their baseball package. Maybe we'll call up Ed Goren and see what his thoughts are.").

HotelWhiteSox
03-29-2006, 08:50 PM
Why don't they name the other players involved in this investigation? I mean, if they named Bonds

downstairs
03-30-2006, 08:54 AM
Why don't they name the other players involved in this investigation? I mean, if they named Bonds

Well, I don't think anyone is. They're just starting. Bonds is just painfully obvious for a starting point.

NOW... that being said. I hope that they don't keep this a "secret" investigation where they will not release names until they find that person "guilty."

It should be a completely open investigation, and should extend well beyond the borders of the USA (*ahem* dominican republic *ahem* Sammy).


Secondly, here's how it should work in terms of players involvement. Let them dig their own grave...

All players being investigated get to keep playing and keep their records entact as long as they participate willingly. That means giving the investigators *anything* they need to know... all the doctors and fake doctors they've ever seen, complete background information on their entire "posse", etc.

If they don't participate, they're presumed guilty and banned for life and removed from all record books entirely.

samram
03-30-2006, 09:08 AM
If they don't participate, they're presumed guilty and banned for life and removed from all record books entirely.

Yep. Bonds apparently isn't planning on cooperating. Gee, what have you got to hide Barry?:rolleyes:

SOXPHILE
03-30-2006, 09:17 AM
As posted earlier, Mitchell is chairman of Disney, who owns ESPN, who have been hyping the Red Sox, Yankees, and.............BARRY BONDS for quite a while now. I highly doubt much will come from this. I heard Barry Rozner on the Mike North show this morning, and he likened it to putting the fox in charge of the henhouse. If (Worst Commissioner In All 4 Pro Sports Leagues) Selig had any stones, he would appoint the guy who investigated Pete Rose (I can't remember his name at the moment). But of course, he doesn't, and he won't.

palehozenychicty
03-30-2006, 09:23 AM
Selig is more than happy to send players to the gallows. His main concern is to protect himself and the owners. If they should become subjects of the investigation, look out.

The whole investigation is typical Selig, with his reactionary politics. The steroid investigation should have been nipped in the bud back in the early to mid 1990s. But MLB chose to do nothing even though both the union and ownership board had substantiary evidence in print and intimiate clubhouse moments. The NFL took the problem head on in the 1980s and quietly enacted a strict drug policy. Now a book comes out with allegations that have been put in the Chronicle for several years now, and they finally decide to do something because the possible home run king is a cheat? pathetic. :angry:

samram
03-30-2006, 09:41 AM
The whole investigation is typical Selig, with his reactionary politics. The steroid investigation should have been nipped in the bud back in the early to mid 1990s. But MLB chose to do nothing even though both the union and ownership board had substantiary evidence in print and intimiate clubhouse moments. The NFL took the problem head on in the 1980s and quietly enacted a strict drug policy. Now a book comes out with allegations that have been put in the Chronicle for several years now, and they finally decide to do something because the possible home run king is a cheat? pathetic. :angry:

Right. It sounds like the stimulus here is the book and the fact that Bank of America and Home Depot have said they won't be involved with any celebration of Bonds' breaking the homerun record.

daveeym
03-30-2006, 09:47 AM
Right. It sounds like the stimulus here is the book and the fact that Bank of America and Home Depot have said they won't be involved with any celebration of Bonds' breaking the homerun record. I'm very pleased that BoA and Home Depot did this. This had to be in the works before their announcements but I'm sure it adds extra pressure and BoA's statement had teeth and no qualifications. It's refreshing to hear anyone lay it out like that.

patbooyah
03-30-2006, 10:12 AM
another thing that takes away from the credibility of this investigation is that mitchell is on the board of directors of the red sox.

Hangar18
03-30-2006, 10:28 AM
Ahhhhhh, a good old fashioned Witchhunt. Bud Selig has to be the worst thing that has happened to baseball since forever. Anyone remember the BudFluff pieces on him by the Chicago Media and National Media? Remember FOX doing a segment on how things have really "turned around" and how he was heartbroken over the Braves leaving Milwaukee? The guy was handpicked by the owners, that should say it all right there. Hes nothing but a YES man to the Cubs, Dodgers, Yankees and the small, but powerful inner circle of owners who are REALLY running baseball. Jerry Reinsdorf is a member of this little circle too, dont be fooled, Jerry is pulling strings when necessary. Bud is a puppet and after the sands of history indict Bud and how terrible his rule really has been, the other owners will throw him under the bus and pretend he wasnt acting in baseballs best interests

tebman
03-30-2006, 11:23 AM
another thing that takes away from the credibility of this investigation is that mitchell is on the board of directors of the red sox.
"There's no business like show business, like no business I know..."

Selig is a car salesman. In his mind the first job is to make everything look good. So he acts as though he's shocked, shocked to learn that there's performance-enhancing drugs here, then he finds an "investigator" who's got deep-money ties to companies that are potentially culpable.

I have confidence in this investigation. Sure I do.

spawn
03-30-2006, 11:35 AM
Bad move by MLB IMHO. Call me cynical as well, but just think about this:

1. How many owners knew about the doping that was going on in the '90's? I know the question has been asked, but I'll ask it again...will they be part of the investigation?
2. How many GM's let this thing go on?
3. How many managers?
4. We pretty much know about the hitters...are they going to investgate the pitchers as well?
4. If they do get a good list of steroid abusers, what are they going to do with it? There was no steroid policy in place in the '90's. How can you punish a player for something that wan't illegal in the sport at that time?
5. If Barry Bonds wasn't chasing Aaron's record, would any of this be happening?

This is a withchunt, and purely reactionary, as has been mentioned. Selig didn't care about 'roids when McGwire and Sosa were chasing Maris' record. Now he's concerned.:rolleyes:

daveeym
03-30-2006, 11:50 AM
Bad move by MLB IMHO. Call me cynical as well, but just think about this:

1. How many owners knew about the doping that was going on in the '90's? I know the question has been asked, but I'll ask it again...will they be part of the investigation?
2. How many GM's let this thing go on?
3. How many managers?
4. We pretty much know about the hitters...are they going to investgate the pitchers as well?
4. If they do get a good list of steroid abusers, what are they going to do with it? There was no steroid policy in place in the '90's. How can you punish a player for something that wan't illegal in the sport at that time?
5. If Barry Bonds wasn't chasing Aaron's record, would any of this be happening?

This is a withchunt, and purely reactionary, as has been mentioned. Selig didn't care about 'roids when McGwire and Sosa were chasing Maris' record. Now he's concerned.:rolleyes: 1. 2. I have a feeling you'll find a don't ask don't tell policy there and probably for the managers also. You might find some that said they shied away from players because they suspected they used but that's about it. If it turns out they knew more I hope they nail em.

4. I'd hope they'd investigate pitchers also and I don't see why they wouldn't.

4b. No comment

5. Yes I think it would, someone else would be chasing the record eventually and the numbers across the board would continue to explode making a mockery of the game. I think it would happen regardless of Barry.

samram
03-30-2006, 12:11 PM
5. Yes I think it would, someone else would be chasing the record eventually and the numbers across the board would continue to explode making a mockery of the game. I think it would happen regardless of Barry.

Honestly, I don't care why they do it, as long as they do it right, which they probably won't. If it took sponsors' threatening to pull ads, it's shameful, but it's better than their doing nothing.

I also would hesitate to call this a witch hunt. That term implies that there's a perceived indiscretion that really isn't an indiscretion. I would call this an extremely selective investigation, assuming there will be the scope limitations people in this thread have pointed out.

Ol' No. 2
03-30-2006, 12:15 PM
4. If they do get a good list of steroid abusers, what are they going to do with it? There was no steroid policy in place in the '90's. How can you punish a player for something that wan't illegal in the sport at that time?
How many times does it need to be said??? There was a steroid policy starting with Fay Vincent. No testing does not equal no policy. Everyone involved looked the other way, but if they all thought it was OK, how come they're trying like hell to cover it up? How come LaRussa tried to ban Steve Wilstein from the clubhouse for reporting McGwire's Andro use?

Mitchell was carefully chosen because Selig knew he could count on him to come back with the "right" answer, just like he did with his "Blue Ribbon Commission" on baseball finances.

wdelaney72
03-30-2006, 12:17 PM
The only thing we as fans can hope for is more corporations to follow in BoA and Home Depot, cause that's hitting MLB in the pocketbooks. I think this is the only way MLB will do anything about this. As far as punishment to players, the only thing they'll be able to do is keep them out of the HOF and discredit their numbers in the recordbooks, which is fine by me.

But yes, this is WAY too little, WAY too late.

soxfanatlanta
03-30-2006, 12:21 PM
My guess: The ground rules will permit investigation of players but not owners. Anyone want to call me cynical?

Yes, you are cynical. But then again, so am I :tongue:

There are to many questions/hurdles to clear for this investigation to have any true impact on the game; it smells like a dog an pony sow to me.

RedHeadPaleHoser
03-30-2006, 12:38 PM
How coincidental it is that there was a bashfest in the late 90's.....to run parallel with the general disgust of the fanbase after the strike. How coincidental that the gargantuan sizes of these players was never discussed....when MLB was hurting in the pocketbook 10 years ago due to the strike. How coincidental that Barry will be the whipping post for this...now that MLB is back on top in attendance, revenue, and competitiveness. Hmm....

1951Campbell
03-30-2006, 12:53 PM
Steroid investigation = http://wanderingjew.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/whitewash_1.jpg

HotelWhiteSox
03-30-2006, 01:07 PM
It's not that hard IMO, if you test positive or admit it, you get the asterik. This would apply to Caminiti, Canseco, Bonds, Giambi, Palmeiro, etc. Some others would get off, Sosa only got caught with cork (so far), but I doubt there'd be an asterik about that. If you don't get caught then I say more power to you, I doubt Rose was the only one to gamble

itsnotrequired
03-30-2006, 01:22 PM
Selig just announced that former U.S. Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell will head the probe.

SoLongFrank
03-30-2006, 02:34 PM
Mitchell? Well maybe it's good news. He's the one who put together the reports demonstrating how poor MLB owners were & why contraction was needed. He's also part-owner of the BoSox.

Every name linked to BALCO? Given. Past, Present it doesn't matter. If your name is there you'll be flagged (Bonds, Sheff, Giambi) for sure. Maybe Frank will get that 2000 MVP after all.

MLB sources say information gleaned from previous Bonds investigations & this new one will not be enough to suspend him. The union is certain to fight any suspension & likely to win before an arbitrator.



Unless of course the MLBPA does something in the best interest of baseball. Fat chance.



This goes well beyond Bonds & SFG. If the allegations are true (why wouldn't they be) Sheff was using HGH & injectable testosterone as well. How many other players were using & how many still are?



http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/404255p-342368c.html
IN: Kenny Griffey Jr, Jeff Bagwell, Frank Thomas, Mike Piazza, Jeff Kent
OUT: Barry Bonds, *Sammy Sosa, Rafael Palmeiro, Gary Sheffield.

They believe Sosa will make it & still leave the door open for Sheff, but they also point out the possibility of an investigation reaching into the Dom Rep. How much will that information be worth? Will it be more than the steroids industry that breathes today in the DR? I think if they uncover even the slightest link to Sosa he's out. The voters will likely hold Sosa out for a while hoping such a link surfaces.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/403929p-342113c.html
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060330/SPORTS0101/603300372/1007/SPORTS 639 HR's (http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060330/SPORTS0101/603300372/1007/SPORTS)
An article like this is dangerous because it leaves open the possibility Bonds can justify himself as one of the greatest if he plays several years & passes 800. In otherwords put's the mark so far out there it's untouchable.


(http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060330/SPORTS0101/603300372/1007/SPORTS)
But as others have pointed out MLB's testing is woefully inadequate. To suggest anything he does now is legit suggests MLB is credible. It's not. That has been proven in the last decade.


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/404363p-342467c.html Greenies
Billy Wagner believes the greenie ban will have impact on the game to the degree level of play will noticeably drop. Greenies have been a part of the game since the late 1950's. They were so wide-spread that some organizations were handing them out. Any where from 50-75% of players have used them regularly. Why? A boost over a long & grueling season & extra focus, power, & speed.



Wagner believes energy drinks like Red Bull will fill the void.

SouthSide_HitMen
03-30-2006, 04:29 PM
How many times does it need to be said??? There was a steroid policy starting with Fay Vincent. No testing does not equal no policy. Everyone involved looked the other way, but if they all thought it was OK, how come they're trying like hell to cover it up? How come LaRussa tried to ban Steve Wilstein from the clubhouse for reporting McGwire's Andro use?

Mitchell was carefully chosen because Selig knew he could count on him to come back with the "right" answer, just like he did with his "Blue Ribbon Commission" on baseball finances.

Bud Selig claimed never to have even heard the word steroid until 1998 - even though he owned the Brewers at the time of Vincent's memo. He continues to ignore everything up until 2003. This investigation is as much of a joke as the current testing system.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-steroids&prov=ap&type=lgns

The probe will be limited to events since September 2002, when the sport banned performance-enhancing drugs. No timetable for the investigation was announced....


No matter what the findings of an investigation, it would be difficult for baseball to penalize anyone for steroids used before Sept. 30, 2002, when a joint drug agreement between management and the players' association took effect.
Baseball began drug testing in 2003 and started testing with penalties the following year.

downstairs
03-30-2006, 05:50 PM
No matter what the findings of an investigation, it would be difficult for baseball to penalize anyone for steroids used before Sept. 30, 2002, when a joint drug agreement between management and the players' association took effect.
Baseball began drug testing in 2003 and started testing with penalties the following year.

How about it was illegal, and known forever to be "cheating"... or, at least, "able to hurt baseball."

Heck, this isn't even a legal investigation. Its the MLB, not the courts. There is no Constitution they have to follow.

Just because something isn't written specifically doesn't make it within the rules.

Look at what David Stern is able to do. Is a one-year ban for a scuffle going too far? Yes, it is. How about if the fight extends to the stands and embarasses the NBA? David laid down the law on his own- union and players be damned.

Is there a specific rule in the NBA rulebook that says what specific things that happen in fights cause what suspensions? No.

This investigation should take all of a few weeks. Bonds, Sosa, Palmero, McGwire, and the like should be suspended for life and banned from baseball.

downstairs
03-30-2006, 05:53 PM
Oh, and to drive the nail in...

Why don't they go back to all the arbitrations and/or negotiations any steroid user has had and demand any money back from any false negotiations.

If Sosa's 60 home run seasons and Bonds 73 now do not count and are erased... they shouldn't have been able to negotiate on it. They'd have been lying, because *they* did not hit those home runs, the steroids essentially did (for lack of a better way to describe it).

SouthSide_HitMen
03-30-2006, 06:12 PM
Oh, and to drive the nail in...

Why don't they go back to all the arbitrations and/or negotiations any steroid user has had and demand any money back from any false negotiations.

If Sosa's 60 home run seasons and Bonds 73 now do not count and are erased... they shouldn't have been able to negotiate on it. They'd have been lying, because *they* did not hit those home runs, the steroids essentially did (for lack of a better way to describe it).

Why stop there. MLB should refund with interest ticket and advertising revenue earned during the "Summer that Saved Baseball" to the fans who bought tickets and the companies who advertised during the fraudulent season.

I'm not holding my breath. Bud's decision to investigate the period after Sosa, McGwire and Bonds broke the home run records make this the laughing stock of all investigations.

RKMeibalane
03-30-2006, 07:17 PM
I won't hold my breath though. I was a bit young to follow and know what was going on with Rose's investigation so is this similar? Is it something that can be trusted or is it likely to be a white washing of the issue where they end up with something like, "there was widespread use of steroids from stars to utility players," and they leave it at that?

It all depends on how far Selig is willing to go. If he's serious on punshing players who have been using, then we may finally see the results we've been waiting for. If, on the other hand, he ignores the actions of the superstars and decides to scapegoat lesser players, then nothing will have changed.

I was six years old when the Pete Rose investigation took place, so I don't remember much about it, other than what I've seen from various interviews conducted since then. Bud Selig has a chance to set things right again, but everything depends on what he's willing to sacrifice to get to that point.

Ol' No. 2
03-30-2006, 07:40 PM
It all depends on how far Selig is willing to go. If he's serious on punshing players who have been using, then we may finally see the results we've been waiting for. If, on the other hand, he ignores the actions of the superstars and decides to scapegoat lesser players, then nothing will have changed.

I was six years old when the Pete Rose investigation took place, so I don't remember much about it, other than what I've seen from various interviews conducted since then. Bud Selig has a chance to set things right again, but everything depends on what he's willing to sacrifice to get to that point.:rolling: I hope you're joking.

This is a steroid investigation that excludes the period when most of the steroid abuses occurred. Just to make sure, Selig appointed someone who he knows from past experience will reliably produce the desired answer. As more details emerge, it looks like an even bigger whitewash than I first thought.

RKMeibalane
03-30-2006, 08:45 PM
:rolling: I hope you're joking.

This is a steroid investigation that excludes the period when most of the steroid abuses occurred. Just to make sure, Selig appointed someone who he knows from past experience will reliably produce the desired answer. As more details emerge, it looks like an even bigger whitewash than I first thought.

I don't see what was so funny about my post. I said that the legitimacy of the investigation was dependent on what Selig was going to do. Since he once again appears determined to sweep this entire mess under the rug, I think that answers daveeym's question.

samram
03-30-2006, 09:29 PM
I don't see what was so funny about my post. I said that the legitimacy of the investigation was dependent on what Selig was going to do. Since he once again appears determined to sweep this entire mess under the rug, I think that answers daveeym's question.

Your post had it right. Unfortunately, Bud has limited the scope of this "investigation" in such a way that it won't address the period most fans want addressed (1998-2001, although I would say 1992-present is the period they should look at). Mitchell is likely nothing more than a puppet who in some way has no choice but to rule there isn't a serious problem.

Lip Man 1
03-30-2006, 09:35 PM
Buster Olney on ESPN.com has already ripped this 'investigation' to pieces saying Selig is the real culprit and also asks an interesting question...why is MLB right now destroying the urine samples from last year if they are going to start examining everything?

Here is Fox Sports take of this. It's also brutal and shows the 'conflict of interest' angles that George Mitchell has as a Red Sox board member and on the board of directors for Disney (which owns ESPN, which has a close relationship with MLB)

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/wcStory?contentId=5455784

Lip

beckett21
03-30-2006, 09:48 PM
What a joke this is. Truly an insult to the intelligence of the public.

Daver
03-30-2006, 09:48 PM
Much like the tomfoolery in front of congress, this is yet another dog and pony show engineered by MLB, but it serves Bud's purpose, it allows him to manipulate the court of public opinion a full year before the current labor deal runs out.

RKMeibalane
03-30-2006, 10:30 PM
Your post had it right. Unfortunately, Bud has limited the scope of this "investigation" in such a way that it won't address the period most fans want addressed (1998-2001, although I would say 1992-present is the period they should look at). Mitchell is likely nothing more than a puppet who in some way has no choice but to rule there isn't a serious problem.

I was afraid that Selig was going to do something like this. It's becoming more and more obvious that nothing will change until a new commissioner is in place. Selig knows that most of this happened on his watch, and he's determined to do whatever it takes to keep from getting his hands dirty. The irony is, the more he tries to cover up the truth, the dirtier his hands become.

Lip Man 1
03-31-2006, 12:18 AM
Just watched the replay of Chicago Tribune Live! Pat Boyle and Lester Munson ripped this farce apart particularly Munson who has a legal background.

Lip

Ol' No. 2
03-31-2006, 09:13 AM
I don't see what was so funny about my post. I said that the legitimacy of the investigation was dependent on what Selig was going to do. Since he once again appears determined to sweep this entire mess under the rug, I think that answers daveeym's question.You can't put the rolling guy in teal. I don't know why anyone would even question Selig's motivations. They're perfectly obvious.

itsnotrequired
03-31-2006, 09:15 AM
mlb.com has the audio for the press conference yesterday

http://dds.mlb.com/mp3/mlbr_daily/033006_mlbr.mp3

daveeym
03-31-2006, 09:27 AM
Buster Olney on ESPN.com has already ripped this 'investigation' to pieces saying Selig is the real culprit and also asks an interesting question...why is MLB right now destroying the urine samples from last year if they are going to start examining everything?

Here is Fox Sports take of this. It's also brutal and shows the 'conflict of interest' angles that George Mitchell has as a Red Sox board member and on the board of directors for Disney (which owns ESPN, which has a close relationship with MLB)

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/wcStory?contentId=5455784

Lip Can it be on the up and up? Possibly though doubtful. The thing is if it isn't, Bud's digging his own grave here. Congress will lay a smack down on him if the fans don't.

RKMeibalane
03-31-2006, 01:51 PM
You can't put the rolling guy in teal. I don't know why anyone would even question Selig's motivations. They're perfectly obvious.

I see. As for Selig, sooner or later he's going to find a rope around his neck. The only question is whether Congress hangs him, or he hangs himself.

PaleHoseGeorge
03-31-2006, 01:59 PM
Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to introduce your NEXXXXXT Commissioner of Baseball...

Senator George Mitchell!

He's got the inside track now, folks.

:wink:

:tool
"Hello I must be going."

Ol' No. 2
03-31-2006, 04:52 PM
Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to introduce your NEXXXXXT Commissioner of Baseball...

Senator George Mitchell!

He's got the inside track now, folks.

:wink:

And he knows exactly what he's supposed to do to not screw it up.

bigfoot
04-01-2006, 09:26 AM
Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to introduce your NEXXXXXT Commissioner of Baseball...

Senator George Mitchell!

He's got the inside track now, folks.

:wink:

:tool
"Hello I must be going."


Ding, Ding, Ding........We have a winner!!!

PHG has hit the nail squarely on the head! With a co-authorship to Daver for the CBA kicker!

Mr. Bonds just has the misfortune of being an hightlighted individual at the very moment of scrutiny. That he will break Babe Ruth mark in the first two weeks of the season will just amplify the spotlight.