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View Full Version : Carlos Lee : A Class Act


SoLongFrank
03-29-2006, 03:46 PM
We often forget about El Cabello. Unlike Thomas, Rowand, & Everett not all of the words by the White Sox were kind in his departing. Ozzie criticized him even. But El Cabello never said anything bad about the White Sox in return.

He just went out & ran hard into a Cub & put him on the DL in response to what Guillen had said.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=411570 It's one of those feel good stories for White Sox fans because not only was it a major factor in getting us to the World Series but it also weakened the N Siders. The Brewers finished ahead of them & are likely to do it again.

If you read some of the previews this spring they beleive more in the Brewers than I do. I have them on the cusp of contending. Slightly better than the N Siders. Others have them contending & on the cusp of greatness.

But while at the same time touting what Lee has given them the reporter is realistic in understanding that if Lee puts up another 30/100 season he's likely to command a 5 yr deal in the neighborhood of 50-60 mil. The Brewers simply can't afford that.

So Lee will likely wind up on a mid-major market team that can. He will leave the same as he came. Barely a whisper. His numbers do all the talking for El Cabello.

NonetheLoaiza
03-29-2006, 03:54 PM
I might be a day late and a dollar short, but the Brewers have a guy named Corey Hart? I don't think the Brewers will ever have a problem with him leaving his sunglasses on his head...hell, he'll even wear them for night games.

TaylorStSox
03-29-2006, 03:54 PM
I could have sworn that he had some bad things to say. Either way, it doesn't matter. I only care about what they did on the field and Lee was a good hitter.

pdimas
03-29-2006, 04:06 PM
I could have sworn that he had some bad things to say. Either way, it doesn't matter. I only care about what they did on the field and Lee was a good hitter.

I wasn't a big fan of of his fielding. We used to have season tix and I can't even count the number of times he got a late break on a ball cause he was ogling some girl in the stands. Boy did the smart baseball fans in the vicinity give im hell for that.

Don't get me wrong he was fun to have out there. I remember one game where a guy ran on the field security dragged the guy down by the pants and depantsed him in the process. It was almost obscene because as they dragged him down everything was exposed. Carlos quickly motioned to the bullpen and with his hands showed those there how little the guys genitals were. Everyone was just cracking up.

Hangar18
03-29-2006, 04:12 PM
I remember one game where a guy ran on the field security dragged the guy down by the pants and depantsed him in the process. It was almost obscene because as they dragged him down everything was exposed. Carlos quickly motioned to the bullpen and with his hands showed those there how little the guys genitals were. Everyone was just cracking up.


:knue
"Really? (grabs pad and paper) So when did this happen? Did you say it was a mob of people?"

TaylorStSox
03-29-2006, 04:22 PM
I wasn't a big fan of of his fielding. We used to have season tix and I can't even count the number of times he got a late break on a ball cause he was ogling some girl in the stands. Boy did the smart baseball fans in the vicinity give im hell for that.

Don't get me wrong he was fun to have out there. I remember one game where a guy ran on the field security dragged the guy down by the pants and depantsed him in the process. It was almost obscene because as they dragged him down everything was exposed. Carlos quickly motioned to the bullpen and with his hands showed those there how little the guys genitals were. Everyone was just cracking up.

There's no doubt that he was a horrible fielder. He was solid hitter though. Well, he still is a solid hitter. :redface:

I want Mags back
03-29-2006, 05:22 PM
There's no doubt that he was a horrible fielder. He was solid hitter though. Well, he still is a solid hitter. :redface:

Thank You. I just had an arguement with this moron last week on my sports radio show, who tried to say lee was a good fielder. He said something like, he never made errors, and i siad, they dont score it an error if you cant get to the ball on time

Railsplitter
03-29-2006, 06:21 PM
I'm wondering the Lee for Pods trade was one of those few that helped both teams.

HomeFish
03-29-2006, 10:10 PM
Thank You. I just had an arguement with this moron last week on my sports radio show, who tried to say lee was a good fielder. He said something like, he never made errors, and i siad, they dont score it an error if you cant get to the ball on time

Remember, Carlos was converted into an outfielder very late in his development. He was a third base prospect.

For a guy that didn't play the outfield until he hit the Majors, his defense was improving dramatically when he got traded out of here. He did have a problem where he would often stare at female fans in the stands while balls got hit to him, as another poster brought up, but he definately improved as the years went on.

fquaye149
03-29-2006, 10:28 PM
Remember, Carlos was converted into an outfielder very late in his development. He was a third base prospect.

For a guy that didn't play the outfield until he hit the Majors, his defense was improving dramatically when he got traded out of here. He did have a problem where he would often stare at female fans in the stands while balls got hit to him, as another poster brought up, but he definately improved as the years went on.

Can you make a line graph that shows one line with positive slope representing the improvements in defense and another with negative slope representing his diminishing babe scoping tendencies? Where do you think they'll intersect? 2004?

ode to veeck
03-30-2006, 08:48 AM
Caballo's still one of the all-time best Cub Killas

Lip Man 1
03-30-2006, 12:00 PM
In addition to being a butcher in the field, Lee was also one of the worst and mentally dumbest baseball players around. Notice I'm not calling him stupid intellectually...

Remember the three times this dolt tried to steal 3rd base with less then two outs? On two of those occasions the tying run was at the plate.

Needless to say he was out by a mile each time. After doing it again you may recall, the 'esteemed' Manager Gandhi said he was going to bench him....only to have him back in the lineup after missing one game.

Oh for the good old days...

Lip

Brian26
03-30-2006, 12:09 PM
So Lee will likely wind up on a mid-major market team that can. He will leave the same as he came. Barely a whisper. His numbers do all the talking for El Cabello.

This is the same CLee that used to make fun of Marte in the lockerroom because Damaso had such a poor upbringing? Don't fall into revisionist history here. Caballo was a great Cub killer and decent at the plate, but I wouldn't proclaim him a "class act."

Dan Mega
03-30-2006, 01:46 PM
Don't get me wrong he was fun to have out there. I remember one game where a guy ran on the field security dragged the guy down by the pants and depantsed him in the process. It was almost obscene because as they dragged him down everything was exposed. Carlos quickly motioned to the bullpen and with his hands showed those there how little the guys genitals were. Everyone was just cracking up.

I was at that game! Section 159:D:

SoLongFrank
03-30-2006, 02:05 PM
First off the Marte thing was never confirmed & Marte proved to be both a liar & a jerk in 2005. So I hardly think that's justification for suggesting Carlos is not a class act.

I was not talking about his fielding. I was talking about his ability to let people have their say & not got into a word-fight. I was talking about his ability to keep his mouth shut when trade rumors & trades happen.

As for his fielding, we don't need a chart. There were plenty of stories written on Lee's improved fielding prior to the trade. You can even search the Times & Trib for them. Lee made several web gems in 2004. He seemed to excel at catches along the wall & catches sliding on the grass. He came up with plays that others don't or can't.

Prior to 2004 he was horrible on routine plays. Soriano-esque. But he worked really hard in 2004 & his 2005 defensive numbers show he maintained that improvement.

palehozenychicty
03-30-2006, 02:18 PM
In addition to being a butcher in the field, Lee was also one of the worst and mentally dumbest baseball players around. Notice I'm not calling him stupid intellectually...

Remember the three times this dolt tried to steal 3rd base with less then two outs? On two of those occasions the tying run was at the plate.

Needless to say he was out by a mile each time. After doing it again you may recall, the 'esteemed' Manager Gandhi said he was going to bench him....only to have him back in the lineup after missing one game.

Oh for the good old days...

Lip

Caballo and Ordonez were losers. Period.

pdimas
03-30-2006, 03:22 PM
I was at that game! Section 159:D:

I was back in 158 then. Now we are in 160.

Were you at the game when that guy was trying to get Neil Cotts to turn around so that he could take his picture? The man wasn't the type to prefer the fairer sex and the guys on the bullpen picked up on this right away. They just started laughing their collective asses off and were giving Neil a lot of grief over it. Cotts, used to having many adoring female fans, turned red and refused to turn around much to the amusement of the other guys in the pen.

pdimas
03-30-2006, 03:31 PM
First off the Marte thing was never confirmed & Marte proved to be both a liar & a jerk in 2005. So I hardly think that's justification for suggesting Carlos is not a class act.

I was not talking about his fielding. I was talking about his ability to let people have their say & not got into a word-fight. I was talking about his ability to keep his mouth shut when trade rumors & trades happen.

As for his fielding, we don't need a chart. There were plenty of stories written on Lee's improved fielding prior to the trade. You can even search the Times & Trib for them. Lee made several web gems in 2004. He seemed to excel at catches along the wall & catches sliding on the grass. He came up with plays that others don't or can't.

Prior to 2004 he was horrible on routine plays. Soriano-esque. But he worked really hard in 2004 & his 2005 defensive numbers show he maintained that improvement.


A lot of those "web gems" were because he got such a late break on the ball. So in effect he made them a lot harder than they had to be. As another poster mentioned if you let the ball drop in front of you it does not count as an error. I noticed him run half assed at a ball so that it would drop in front of him quite a few times. Say what you will but based on what I saw in '03 and '04 i still don't think he was a good outfielder. He just always seemed too distracted. I remember one time the ball was hit his way and he was looking in the stands. He didn't even turn around until everyone in left field yelled at him and then to top it off the ball squirted past him after it landed. It wasn't an error because the ball landed in front of him but he still screwed up.

Foulke You
03-30-2006, 10:00 PM
Anyone remember how brutal Carlos was catching fly balls in domed stadiums? It was an adventure everytime we got to the Metrodome or Tropicana. I can't tell you how many times Carlos would just shrug his shoulders that he didn't see it and Singleton or Rowand would have to run over and grab the ball to throw it in while the hitter got a stand up double out of a routine flyball. Carlos did improve defensively in 2004 although, nobody would mistake him for Willie Mays out there.


However, that being said, Carlos could absolutely rake and his Cub killing moments too numerous to count. Offensively, Carlos's only weakness is his tendency to get overaggressive at the plate and lunge after pitches 2 feet outside. That was my only critique of his offensive game. When he was being patient, he was very dangerous. I liked Carlos a lot as a player and really think the trade benefitted both teams. We needed a speedy leadoff man, the Brewers needed a power threat. The trade solved both our team's problems.

SOXSINCE'70
03-31-2006, 07:37 AM
I wasn't a big fan of of his fielding. We used to have season tix and I can't even count the number of times he got a late break on a ball cause he was ogling some girl in the stands.
Carlos was a great guy with a great sense of humor,
but everyone I sat with in the left field bleachers from 2001-2004
referred to him as "the butcher".Great hitter,so-so fielder.:D:

MVP
03-31-2006, 09:37 AM
[quote=SoLongFrank]We often forget about El Cabello. Unlike Thomas, Rowand, & Everett not all of the words by the White Sox were kind in his departing. Ozzie criticized him even. But El Cabello never said anything bad about the White Sox in return.


What exactly did Rowand say that people took issue with? I thought Rowand went out with class. Basically, he mentioned that he would've liked to have stayed, but that he couldn't blame the Sox for trying to, in their minds, improve themselves. I didn't feel he in any way slighted the Sox with his comments, unlike Evertte and Thomas.