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View Full Version : Grace "No" to Sosa for HOF


daveeym
03-24-2006, 08:05 AM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-0603240283mar24,1,7269887.story?coll=chi-sportsnew-hed

Reading between the lines I'd say Grace KNOWS that Sosa used roids. In 8 months the stories that Dusty was injecting Bonds and Sosa in the bathroom will start coming from the trib. I stuck this in talking baseball for the steroids issue - What's the score may be better though.

jdm2662
03-24-2006, 08:36 AM
Grace couldn't stand Sosa. So, this shouldn't be a surprise.

DrCrawdad
03-24-2006, 08:38 AM
Chicago Sun-Times, March 24, 2006 (http://www.suntimes.com/output/deluca/cst-spt-sosa24.html)

Chris De Luca
Grace says Sosa's bulk had to be artificial

March 24, 2006
BY CHRIS DE LUCA (cdeluca@suntimes.com) Staff Reporter

"It's not just Barry [Bonds]. There were a lot of guys doing it. I saw it with my own eyes. It was pitchers, it was catchers, it was outfielders, it was infielders. There was a lot of it going around. Shoot, looking back on it, I had it offered to me many times.''


On speculation that players such as Mark McGwire and Sosa used steroids: ''Those are the red-flag guys, the guys that just made the sudden big, big jumps. Guys that showed up at the beginning of their career at 170 pounds and left at the end of their career at 235 pounds. A body can't get that way naturally; it has to be enhanced with something. Sammy's just one of the guys of many that are red-flag guys. Do we have proof? Nope. But you certainly have suspicions.''


Stricter steroid policy enacted, Sosa's numbers drop-off dramatically then Sosa retires. Mere coincidence?

:barney&sham
Sosa's and the Cubune stance was that Sosa was only taking Flintstones vitamins...until Sosa was no longer of value to them.

On whether (Grace would) vote for Sosa for the Hall of Fame: ''In a word, 'no.'''

oeo
03-24-2006, 08:57 AM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-0603240283mar24,1,7269887.story?coll=chi-sportsnew-hed

Reading between the lines I'd say Grace KNOWS that Sosa used roids. In 8 months the stories that Dusty was injecting Bonds and Sosa in the bathroom will start coming from the trib. I stuck this in talking baseball for the steroids issue - What's the score may be better though.

:dunno::mg::unsure::cower::puking:

Madvora
03-24-2006, 09:04 AM
Too bad he's going to drop out of the league and get away with never getting officially caught.

Tekijawa
03-24-2006, 09:13 AM
In 8 months the stories that Dusty was injecting Bonds and Sosa in the bathroom will start coming from the trib. I stuck this in talking baseball for the steroids issue - What's the score may be better though.

He is a players coach you know!

Flight #24
03-24-2006, 09:25 AM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-0603240283mar24,1,7269887.story?coll=chi-sportsnew-hed

Reading between the lines I'd say Grace KNOWS that Sosa used roids. In 8 months the stories that Dusty was injecting Bonds and Sosa in the bathroom will start coming from the trib. I stuck this in talking baseball for the steroids issue - What's the score may be better though.

2 years ago I ran into Grace in Vegas & we chatted while watching hoops (Illi-Ark). I asked him about Sammy & steroids and he gave me a look and said "Well, you know it wasn't just Barry". That confirmed it for me 100% (although I pretty much knew it already).

palehozenychicty
03-24-2006, 09:25 AM
He is a players coach you know!

that he is. no teal is necessary.

SOXPHILE
03-24-2006, 09:27 AM
I'm actually surprised the Big Blue Paper printed this story. It paints the Cubs in a pretty bad light. Grace is talking about how Sosa went from "170 to 235 pounds" in just a couple of years. Guess what ? Everyone knows that change didn't occur while he was with the Rangers, White Sox, and of course, the Orioles. What I will expect to see in the coming weeks and months is the Tribune somehow finding a way to pat themselves/the Cubs on the back for getting rid of Sosa "when it became more and more apparent that he had been getting pharmaceutical help".

tebman
03-24-2006, 11:31 AM
I'm actually surprised the Big Blue Paper printed this story. It paints the Cubs in a pretty bad light. Grace is talking about how Sosa went from "170 to 235 pounds" in just a couple of years. Guess what ? Everyone knows that change didn't occur while he was with the Rangers, White Sox, and of course, the Orioles. What I will expect to see in the coming weeks and months is the Tribune somehow finding a way to pat themselves/the Cubs on the back for getting rid of Sosa "when it became more and more apparent that he had been getting pharmaceutical help".
That's the remarkable thing -- that the Tribune printed that story. What you don't see, of course, is any mention of the Cubs' corporate relationship to the Tribune. No doubt the editors are shocked, shocked, that there was abuse of steroids going on here.

Convenient too that they discovered this story after Sosa helped them make several extra millions of dollars. Too bad Wycliff left the paper; he could tell us again to "get a grip."

patbooyah
03-24-2006, 11:54 AM
i don't care what anyone says. mark grace is one cub that i will always like.

Hangar18
03-24-2006, 11:55 AM
Stricter steroid policy enacted, Sosa's numbers drop-off dramatically then Sosa retires. Mere coincidence?

:barney&sham


Skinny Sosa hits a miserable .209 for SOX.
Sosa goes to Cubs, suddenly beefs up, hits .300
Sox fans very suspicious .........Media hog-wild for Sammy, Sheep adore him
Hhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Hangar18
03-24-2006, 12:04 PM
That's the remarkable thing -- that the Tribune printed that story. What you don't see, of course, is any mention of the Cubs' corporate relationship to the Tribune. No doubt the editors are shocked, shocked, that there was abuse of steroids going on here.

Convenient too that they discovered this story after Sosa helped them make several extra millions of dollars. Too bad Wycliff left the paper; he could tell us again to "get a grip."

Yup, Good eye there tebman. The Big Blue went hog-wild pumping this guy up, and there were lots of suspicions about him, all they had to do was look 8 miles south. They ignored it. NOW ........... they talk about him in the 3rd person, and they plant stories now that Cub Nation always hated him ....... Yeah right.

Ol' No. 2
03-24-2006, 12:20 PM
That's the remarkable thing -- that the Tribune printed that story. What you don't see, of course, is any mention of the Cubs' corporate relationship to the Tribune. No doubt the editors are shocked, shocked, that there was abuse of steroids going on here.

Convenient too that they discovered this story after Sosa helped them make several extra millions of dollars. Too bad Wycliff left the paper; he could tell us again to "get a grip."It was not a Trib exclusive, so it's going to be out there. They would wind up looking even worse if they didn't print it. Besides, Shammy is personna non grata, so they can trash him all they want without hurting ticket sales.

maurice
03-24-2006, 12:44 PM
The Trib has been trying to trash and disassociate themselves with Sosa since before he left town. They knew that the steroid story was about to hit the fan.

As somebody else pointed out, the Trib article doesn't even contain the word "Cubs." (By contrast, the Sun-Times article opens with "They were Cubs teammates....") Plus, a Trib web editor just indicated in another thread that he doesn't count this as a Cub-related article, despite its focus on 3 prominent former Cubs.
:rolleyes:

1951Campbell
03-24-2006, 12:55 PM
Convenient too that they discovered this story after Sosa helped them make several extra millions of dollars. Too bad Wycliff left the paper; he could tell us again to "get a grip."

C'mon, tebman: "moral ambiguity is part of the human condition."

:D:

tebman
03-24-2006, 01:05 PM
Convenient too that they discovered this story after Sosa helped them make several extra millions of dollars. Too bad Wycliff left the paper; he could tell us again to "get a grip."

C'mon, tebman: "moral ambiguity is part of the human condition."

:D:
Ah! Thanks, '51C -- I'd forgotten about Wycliff's philosophy tutorial. Pity he's not there to enlighten us further on why dominant media companies that cover their own properties are not worthy of deeper questions.

"Greed is good." -- Gordon Gekko, "Wall Street"

ChiSoxLifer
03-24-2006, 01:39 PM
I'm actually surprised the Big Blue Paper printed this story. It paints the Cubs in a pretty bad light. Grace is talking about how Sosa went from "170 to 235 pounds" in just a couple of years. Guess what ? Everyone knows that change didn't occur while he was with the Rangers, White Sox, and of course, the Orioles. What I will expect to see in the coming weeks and months is the Tribune somehow finding a way to pat themselves/the Cubs on the back for getting rid of Sosa "when it became more and more apparent that he had been getting pharmaceutical help".

Nice attempt at burying this by the trib. If you go to chicagosports.com, it doesn't appear on the main page. You have to click the cubs link, and the headline reads "Mark Grace on..." That's what I call "subtly blatant".

spawn
03-24-2006, 01:47 PM
i don't care what anyone says. mark grace is one cub that i will always like.
I'm with you. Even when he was with the Cubs, I liked him. I appreciate a player who respects the game, and he did. It should've been his team, not Shammy's.

jdm2662
03-24-2006, 01:57 PM
i don't care what anyone says. mark grace is one cub that i will always like.

Count me in on this one. It was a shame that Scammy had to be the show while a quality player like him was overlooked.

DaleJRFan
03-24-2006, 02:01 PM
Count me in on this one. It was a shame that Scammy had to be the show while a quality player like him was overlooked.

Mark Grace has something that Sammy Sosa will never have, the respect of his fellow players, teammates, coaches and all baseball fans (edit: well, most baseball fans... there's gotta be someone out there that doesn't like Mark Grace). And as an added bonus, who can forget that Grace got a World Series ring his first year out of the North Side.

RKMeibalane
03-24-2006, 06:18 PM
I hope Grace decides to write an autobiography. I'd love to hear what he has to say about Sosa, Cubs fans, playing in a Giant Urinal, etc.

RKMeibalane
03-24-2006, 06:19 PM
i don't care what anyone says. mark grace is one cub that i will always like.

Agreed. The same goes for Andre Dawson, whom I gained a lot of respect for after he took a shot at Ron Santo for constantly whining about being elected to the HOF.

doublem23
03-24-2006, 06:28 PM
Only took him 8 years to rat out the cheater?

What a guy. :rolleyes:

Vernam
03-24-2006, 09:24 PM
Only took him 8 years to rat out the cheater?

What a guy. :rolleyes:Yeah, I always thought Grace epitomized the mealy-mouthed, clean-cut Flub image. He's only popping off now because he knows the organization has no use for him. Still, I sure enjoyed today's story.

Flight #24, good job on pumping Grace for info about Sosa. If I'd been there, I'd have asked for the skinny on Ryne "This Old Cuckold" Sandberg's first wife. :redneck In that sense, Grace may partially owe his illustrious Cub career to Palmeiro.

Vernam

1951Campbell
03-24-2006, 09:33 PM
Ah! Thanks, '51C -- I'd forgotten about Wycliff's philosophy tutorial. Pity he's not there to enlighten us further on why dominant media companies that cover their own properties are not worthy of deeper questions.



What got me about the Wycliff affair was that, as I saw it at least, he simultaneously said (1) there's no bias and (2) kind of shrugged and said hey, we all know who owns the Cubs. Grow a pair and take a position, dude. Either/or.

I thought of Wycliff (and Knue) a lot when the New York Times was basically the only major media outlet to defend Kelo v. New London. I just imagined those two earnestly positing that hey, just because the Times is building a huge new building after benefitting from eminent domain is no reason to think that the editorials for Kelo are in any way connected. Oh no. And hey, even if they are, moral ambiguity and all...

Black Jack
03-24-2006, 09:35 PM
Mark Grace is the color announcer for Diamondback games so I hear him pretty often on TV. I Like him a lot, he's miles better than DJ. Also, I'm pretty sure he and the Cubs don't get along so well, so he's on our side.

1951Campbell
03-24-2006, 09:36 PM
Yeah, I always thought Grace epitomized the mealy-mouthed, clean-cut Flub image.

Vernam

Clean-cut Cub Mark Grace? Perhaps you haven't heard his meditations on "slump-busters."

Grace seems like an okay guy, but this subtle, coded stuff about Sammy years after the fact is me-tooism. It ain't courageous.

daveeym
03-24-2006, 10:34 PM
Only took him 8 years to rat out the cheater?

What a guy. :rolleyes:That's a bit unfair. The guy has a life, family, etc. to worry about and was trying to solidify a future after baseball. He's been pretty consistent and somewhat outspoken on the issue during his career. As much as Frank has been. Frank's never had the balls to call anyone out by name. But we revere him as a Sox.

Who here has had the balls on a job, with family or friends to call out something as major as this and risk there job, income, future on it? I'll give grace and frank both credit for being consistent and not rip either of them for waiting "8 years". Very few have the means, balls, or position to be a **** disturber. I'll respect consistency as a necessary evil.

slavko
03-24-2006, 11:39 PM
I'm remembering that Grace left the team because he lost a clubhouse power struggle to Steroid-Man when management chose the other guy over him. What do you expect him to say? I also suspect that this story may be the first step in rehabbing Grace for a possible future return to the cub family. Didn't Mark spout that "cub town now, cub town then, cub town forever bushwa all the time?"