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Hawkeroo1980
03-22-2006, 09:14 PM
4 runs 4 earned

heres a silly question..........who will close if Jenks were to falter?:?:

TomBradley72
03-22-2006, 09:20 PM
He looks pretty bad...seems VERY out of shape (even for him)...seemed to be almost wheezing when I watched recording of monday's game....very average fastball...kind of like Thigpen's when he was on his way down. I think it's mostly conditioning.

delben91
03-22-2006, 09:23 PM
4 runs 4 earned

heres a silly question..........who will close if Jenks were to falter?:?:

Cotts

Still got a week though, we'll see what happens.

FloridaSox
03-22-2006, 09:34 PM
Here is an article from MLB.com on Jenks:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060322&content_id=1359709&vkey=spt2006news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws


Here is a quote from the article: "The official totals for Jenks' last four outings are four innings pitched and seven runs allowed on eight hits and six walks. Jenks has fanned just one over that period. "

I know the official mantra on this board no problem, not worried, spring training does not count, etc. Here are the ERAs for our bullpen at the moment:

Jenks: 7.88
Cotts: 2.25
Politte: 6.00
McCarthy: 7.30
Boone Logan: 0.00 -YEAH
Matt Thornton: 21.50, with 21 hits and 6 walks in 7 1/3 innings--OUCH!
Hermanson: 13.50- Headed for DL

Do we have a problem?

delben91
03-22-2006, 09:38 PM
Do we have a problem?

The games still don't count, so no, not yet.

oeo
03-22-2006, 09:41 PM
Here is an article from MLB.com on Jenks:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060322&content_id=1359709&vkey=spt2006news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws


Here is a quote from the article: "The official totals for Jenks' last four outings are four innings pitched and seven runs allowed on eight hits and six walks. Jenks has fanned just one over that period. "

I know the official mantra on this board no problem, not worried, spring training does not count, etc. Here are the ERAs for our bullpen at the moment:

Jenks: 7.88
Cotts: 2.25
Politte: 6.00
McCarthy: 7.30
Boone Logan: 0.00 -YEAH
Matt Thornton: 21.50, with 21 hits and 6 walks in 7 1/3 innings--OUCH!
Hermanson: 13.50- Headed for DL

Do we have a problem?

Good thing our starters are inning eaters. :redneck

But seriously, I'm not worried as of now. Until I see those numbers in the regular season, there's nothing for me to worry about. Jenks did look pretty sloppy out there today, though...hopefully he gets that fastball back in the next couple weeks.

Beer Can Chicken
03-22-2006, 09:42 PM
Here is an article from MLB.com on Jenks:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060322&content_id=1359709&vkey=spt2006news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws


Here is a quote from the article: "The official totals for Jenks' last four outings are four innings pitched and seven runs allowed on eight hits and six walks. Jenks has fanned just one over that period. "

I know the official mantra on this board no problem, not worried, spring training does not count, etc. Here are the ERAs for our bullpen at the moment:

Jenks: 7.88
Cotts: 2.25
Politte: 6.00
McCarthy: 7.30
Boone Logan: 0.00 -YEAH
Matt Thornton: 21.50, with 21 hits and 6 walks in 7 1/3 innings--OUCH!
Hermanson: 13.50- Headed for DL

Do we have a problem?

I'm concerned. I think the bullpen is definitely our biggest question mark at this point. Say what you will about Marte and Viz, they were pretty decent for the 2 weakest links and will not be as easy as everyone thinks to replace. My biggest concern though is the cumulative effect this will have on our bullpen. Ozzie is gonig to be looking to Cotts and Politte ALOT more that he had to last year. The more we rely on 2-3 people, the more we will hurt in the long run. You are only as good as your weakest link.
I still think we win the divison.

itsnotrequired
03-22-2006, 09:46 PM
The games still don't count, so no, not yet.

Perhaps it should have been worded as potential problem. I would agree that there is a potential problem. Bobby can certainly turn it around but if he is laboring out there, he isn't going to "magically" get in shape within a week.

The starters can eat a lot of innings but I would sure feel a lot better if they didn't have to.

delben91
03-22-2006, 09:49 PM
Perhaps it should have been worded as potential problem. I would agree that there is a potential problem. Bobby can certainly turn it around but if he is laboring out there, he isn't going to "magically" get in shape within a week.

The starters can eat a lot of innings but I would sure feel a lot better if they didn't have to.

Exactly. There is definitely a potential problem there. My statement was more to the effect that at this moment, no, there is no problem, as losing these games has no impact on the standings come April 2nd. However, if the trend continues into the regular season, then yes, I'd say that would be a problem.

Until the season starts though, since I'm not Kenny, or Ozzie, or Coop, it's not a problem for me.

spiffie
03-22-2006, 10:03 PM
We won the World Series in 2005, therefore nothing can be wrong with us in 2006.

The numbers don't bother me. Some of the guys you can tell are holding back. But with Jenks it sounds like lots of people are saying he looks out of shape, not physically prepared, that sort of thing. So right now he's the only one I'm really thinking needs both eyes kept on him. It sounds like he had a hard offseason and might have been behind the rest of the guys in terms of ramping up for the season and will need to be monitored. I'm not worried, but I have some concern for the closer spot at this point.

BanditJimmy
03-22-2006, 10:15 PM
Throw the dark cloud image on me if you want, but I don't like this at all. I keep on saying it's early in ST and not worry, but we are now only 1.5 weeks away from opening day and Cotts is our only lock in our pen right now.


Maybe it's the Arizon air, but walks have nothing to do with AZ air.


And Vizcaino and Marte are not the missing pieces folks. The three horses in that pen are Jenks, Pollite, & Cotts. We need all three clicking or we might be in trouble, regardless of how great our starters are.


Anyone have stats on how the other top tier ML bullpens have been throwing so far this spring?

JB98
03-22-2006, 10:20 PM
Cotts has been great. Politte's ERA is high, but on the way down. His poor outings were early in the spring. Logan is going to make the club. I haven't seen enough of Thornton to judge. If Uribe fields a routine grounder, he's out of that inning yesterday.

As for Jenks, he's had two outings that were absolutely awful. Today's and one other one. I'm not concerned yet. If he blows a couple in the regular season, I'll start to wonder.

Ol' No. 2
03-22-2006, 10:27 PM
This is a problem only if they're approaching ST games the way they would a regular season game - with getting batters out being the first priority. Which is to say, it's not a problem. Everybody chill.

FloridaSox
03-22-2006, 10:40 PM
I haven't seen enough of Thornton to judge. If Uribe fields a routine grounder, he's out of that inning yesterday.


Look at Thornton's numbers for the spring, look at his career numbers..this was a bust for bust trade.

Soxfanspcu11
03-22-2006, 10:45 PM
Here is a silly question, but since Jenks was in AA last year, how was his workout routines similar/different from his now that he is a starter and a lock as a major leaguer?

Perhaps he is not used to this conditioning and it takes him to warm up. Slow starter? We all know that he is fatter then usual.

I don't think anything is wrong, he had about 3 or 4 curveballs today that we FILTHY! Even Hawk commented that one of them was the best he had seen from Bobby all spring.

Let's not lose the fact that his fastball right now is still popping in there at the level of Polite's fastball. He will get those 5 or 6 MPH back soon. I'm really not worried.

The only "worry" or "conern" that I have in regards to Jenks is that his fastball is really straight right now, he needs to get that figured out.

Ol' No. 2
03-22-2006, 10:53 PM
Maybe these ERA's will make you feel better:

Cliff Lee: 5.50
C. C. Sabathia: 8.76
Paul Byrd: 9.39
Steve Karsay: 7.20
S. Sauerbeck: 6.75
B. Wickman: 5.40

Lip Man 1
03-22-2006, 11:35 PM
White Sox.com is reporting Hermanson threw another 52 pitch side session with no trouble today. He said he feels fine and the Sox are changing their plans for him. The story says he'll pitch in Friday game against major league hitters instead of a minor league game.

Seems the Sox want to know for sure basically right now, if they can count on him or not.

Keep your fingers crossed.

Lip

sullythered
03-23-2006, 12:00 AM
Meh...
Not only do spring training wins mean almost nothing, spring training stats mean almost nothing. Jenks isn't throwing as hard as he does in the regular season, and you know what, he didn't during spring training last year. If he can't throw 100 all of the sudden, he's in trouble. But to this point, we have no reason to believe that is the case. He doesn't even look like he's really bringing it, and he's still hitting 95 on the gun. Once the season starts, he'll pick it up. Everybody does.

Sad
03-23-2006, 08:18 AM
Meh...
Not only do spring training wins mean almost nothing, spring training stats mean almost nothing. Jenks isn't throwing as hard as he does in the regular season, and you know what, he didn't during spring training last year. If he can't throw 100 all of the sudden, he's in trouble. But to this point, we have no reason to believe that is the case. He doesn't even look like he's really bringing it, and he's still hitting 95 on the gun. Once the season starts, he'll pick it up. Everybody does.

Jenk's velocity isn't the concern as much as his location...
he isn't throwing strikes

SOXSINCE'70
03-23-2006, 08:25 AM
Do we have a problem?

Not yet.Talk to me after April 2nd.If this is the case,
then yes,there is a problem.And,to quote a line from
the movie "Sudden Impact", "who's we,sucker?".
Do you own the White Sox?? The Sox may have
a problem,but I doubt you have this same problem.

soxinem1
03-23-2006, 08:27 AM
Jenk's velocity isn't the concern as much as his location...
he isn't throwing strikes

I've said it before and I'll say it again. This guy just totally blew off the off-season and did nothing except show up to ST. And I really like Jenks and acknowledge the fact that we don't win last year unless we have him. But that chapter is over, now it's a new season. Some of these hitters Jenks has been facing wouldn't strike fear to a career AAA player, and yet he cannot seem to even get out the guys who won't even make the ML roster.

Not that I like knocking our players, but this is what he looks like:

http://www.bluegrassreport.org/bluegrass_politics/images/michelin_man_2.jpg

All that 'there's still a week to go' stuff is an excuse we need to drop. As of now, this looks like the pen to start the year:

Cotts
Jenks
McCarthy
Politte
Logan
Thornton(?)
Casey or Redding

Now I don't know about you, but this makes me feel queasy. Great starters are one thing, but they are not CG types. We are past the era when the top three guys have 10-20 CG's a year.

This pen needs to be effective or we don't repeat.

I still say Cotts is closing by May, but the rest of this group is rather pedestrian, if you ask me, Cliff included.

Bobbo35
03-23-2006, 08:36 AM
Cotts

Still got a week though, we'll see what happens.

That is who I was going to say.

soxfanatlanta
03-23-2006, 08:59 AM
I heard from Ed Farmer during the broadcast that starting today, the pitchers are to treat the games like regular season, so expect the starters to shoot for 6+ innings of work. I assume the bullpen is to do the same type of thing, and focus on getting the hitters out.

If he still gets torched over the next week, then it would concern me. But right now, as others have stated, meh.

downstairs
03-23-2006, 09:20 AM
Maybe these ERA's will make you feel better:

Cliff Lee: 5.50
C. C. Sabathia: 8.76
Paul Byrd: 9.39
Steve Karsay: 7.20
S. Sauerbeck: 6.75
B. Wickman: 5.40

Now I'm VERY worried because Detroit is a *LOCK* to win the Central...

Ugh!


(Teal implied)

SBSoxFan
03-23-2006, 09:28 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again. This guy just totally blew off the off-season and did nothing except show up to ST.
I've said this before, and I'll say it agin. No, he didn't! It's been documented that Jenks did work hard in the off-season, but that the Sox training staff believes he put on too much muscle to be conducive to pitching. The effort was certainly there, but it was misguided.

Let's hope he gets stretched out and limbered up soon.

Iwritecode
03-23-2006, 10:37 AM
This is a problem only if they're approaching ST games the way they would a regular season game - with getting batters out being the first priority. Which is to say, it's not a problem. Everybody chill.

Exactly. Right now pitchers are just trying to build up their velocity and arm strength and get their work in. They're probably not worried about the results. We shouldn't be either...

Chicken Dinner
03-23-2006, 10:53 AM
The difference between winning and losing 1 or 2 run games is the bullpen. These guys need to start dialing it in.

Ol' No. 2
03-23-2006, 11:04 AM
The difference between winning and losing 1 or 2 run games is the bullpen. These guys need to start dialing it in.Pitchers typically use spring training to work on developing new pitches or refining pitches they've had problems with. Look around the league. Everybody else's pitchers are doing the same thing. They need to start dialing it in on April 2. Until then it doesn't matter.

WSox8404
03-23-2006, 11:07 AM
I also think that Bobby came into spring training out of shape and unprepared. I think (or hope may be the better word) that once he gets back into shape he will be back to normal.

FoulTerritory
03-23-2006, 11:09 AM
Jenk's velocity isn't the concern as much as his location...
he isn't throwing strikes

His velocity is a huge concern. His fastball, much like Billy Koch's, is too strait to be effective if it isn't popping in the upper 90's.

I am with everyone here, in that I do think it will come back, BUT, if it doesn't then this is a huge problem.

Location is intrinsic to any pitcher's success; however, that doesn't mean that velocity isn't also paramount with certain pitchers.

soxinem1
03-23-2006, 12:08 PM
I've said this before, and I'll say it agin. No, he didn't! It's been documented that Jenks did work hard in the off-season, but that the Sox training staff believes he put on too much muscle to be conducive to pitching. The effort was certainly there, but it was misguided.

Let's hope he gets stretched out and limbered up soon.

Why did the manager rip him about his lack of conditioning if he's in such great shape? I said that last time you gave your 'workout' response.

If he was working out, he should have lost weight, not gained it, and firmed up a bit. And besides, don't you think they should have given him a workout regimine to follow?

But big or no big, if this guy isn't throwing on all cylinders, we will have a tough slot to fill, and closers are not falling out of the sky.

They have been playing the Rockies and D-Backs all ST, and have routinely been getting spanked. If today is to be the day these guys start 'pitching in season mode', I sure hope it gets together quick.

No one wins these days without a solid bullpen no matter how good the starters are.

SBSoxFan
03-23-2006, 12:31 PM
Why did the manager rip him about his lack of conditioning if he's in such great shape? I said that last time you gave your 'workout' response.
I don't know, but I did read where the conditioning coach said Jenks put on some muscle.

If he was working out, he should have lost weight, not gained it, and firmed up a bit. And besides, don't you think they should have given him a workout regimine to follow?
You can lose weight, but still look bigger if you put on muscle. And yes, I agree completely that Jenks should have had a regimine to follow that was tailored for him. They make it sound like they forgot to tell him. :?:

But big or no big, if this guy isn't throwing on all cylinders, we will have a tough slot to fill, and closers are not falling out of the sky.

They have been playing the Rockies and D-Backs all ST, and have routinely been getting spanked. If today is to be the day these guys start 'pitching in season mode', I sure hope it gets together quick.

No one wins these days without a solid bullpen no matter how good the starters are.
I agree again. The bottom line is how well they pitch. While I don't expect Jenks to be the second coming of Billy Koch, I became concerned last night when I read that Ozzie was considering using Cotts to close and moving Iguchi back to the two hole. When Ozzie's concerned, I'm concerned!

shaunburnette
03-23-2006, 12:35 PM
Everyone remember, it is still March.

Yes we can be concerned because we have nothing else to do.

Yes a closer role would not be an easy task to fill.

Maybe Iguchi would be better suited to move back to #2 and swap with Uribe but we have plenty of time still to let Ozzie make the right decision with that.

But I wouldnt put too much into any of this just yet. Even if the Sox were to get off to a slow start such as their Spring Training record during April, the sky wouldn't be falling yet and once things start clicking together, we have already seen what can come of it.

Lip Man 1
03-23-2006, 01:27 PM
Shaun:

Correction...it's LATE March. Not quite the same as say March 1st or March 5th or March 10th is it?

You can't turn it on and off like a water hose. Yes there is still some time to work things out, but let's be real here, not a hell of a lot.

Lip

StockdaleForVeep
03-23-2006, 01:33 PM
3 words: only spring training

Hell baltimore is usually a stud team in pre season and they go nowhere in the real season

sullythered
03-23-2006, 02:07 PM
You can't turn it on and off like a water hose.

The Yankees and Red Sox seem to do just that year in and year out.

Hawkeroo1980
03-23-2006, 02:09 PM
kinda sick of hearing the whole "its only spring training"

bottom line---- they need to get their act together.

if cotts closes....then is thorton our lefty setup?

i mean MY GOD! All those who choose to ignor the problem and assume they will just turn it on come April second are just nieve. This is a serious problem that now even Ozzie acknowledges. face it.....They have some serious shuffling/work to do.

getting rid of Viscaino was a bad idea. I feel alot better with Viscaino than boone logan. I also feel better with Marte instead of Matt "give me a chance, i'll come around" Thorton.

PaulDrake
03-23-2006, 02:24 PM
Maybe these ERA's will make you feel better:

Cliff Lee: 5.50
C. C. Sabathia: 8.76
Paul Byrd: 9.39
Steve Karsay: 7.20
S. Sauerbeck: 6.75
B. Wickman: 5.40 Actually they did make me feel a little better. Thanks for posting them.

palehozenychicty
03-23-2006, 02:43 PM
I want to trust in management, because we finally got an aligned team. We'll be fine.

TaylorStSox
03-23-2006, 02:47 PM
Pitchers typically use spring training to work on developing new pitches or refining pitches they've had problems with. Look around the league. Everybody else's pitchers are doing the same thing. They need to start dialing it in on April 2. Until then it doesn't matter.

How much have you seen him pitch? He's not working on anything new. His curve has no snap and he can't locate it. (could be an Arizona problem) His fastball looks very pedestrian. It has no life. He can't locate that either. I'm concerned.

Also, Politte's stuff looks like the end of last year, as opposed to the first half. The sky's definitely not falling, but there's cause for concern.

White Sox Randy
03-23-2006, 02:51 PM
kinda sick of hearing the whole "its only spring training"

bottom line---- they need to get their act together.

if cotts closes....then is thorton our lefty setup?

i mean MY GOD! All those who choose to ignor the problem and assume they will just turn it on come April second are just nieve. This is a serious problem that now even Ozzie acknowledges. face it.....They have some serious shuffling/work to do.

getting rid of Viscaino was a bad idea. I feel alot better with Viscaino than boone logan. I also feel better with Marte instead of Matt "give me a chance, i'll come around" Thorton.

You're a dark cloud. Now stop it. We won the WS last year. Don't try to repeat. Just be happy with that. What's the matter with you. The Sox have no weaknesses. Even if they do, they don't. The season doesn't start for 10 whole days. That's plenty of time for Hermie to recover from back surgery, Jenks to lose 20 lbs. and find the plate,McCarthy to learn how to be a reliever, Boone Logan to get major league experience, Cooper to do what no one else could for 8 years and make a pitcher out of Thornton and KW to make a trade for a reliever the quality of one of the two we traded away. Stop being realistic...I mean negative. The bullpen looks great. And, we only open against Cleveland. They can't hit. The division's weaker this year. Dark cloud - go eat a churro.

SoxSpeed22
03-23-2006, 03:04 PM
Let's recap this WSR, you were talking about worthless lefties about 2 days ago, and now everything's hunky dory.
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0002JO2Y4.03._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

KRS1
03-23-2006, 03:07 PM
If he was working out should have lost weight, not gained it, and firmed up a bit.
This is not true. Muscle weights *TWO TO* THREE TIMES more than fat. So if Bobby or anyone were to add some muscle through weight training, you would not see a drop in weight, unless they were doing extreme calistetics, and cardio to go along with it. Bobby lifted weights a lot this off-season, that is what people have said here, I doubt his working out was much more than that and maybe some light jogging.

KRS1
03-23-2006, 03:09 PM
Let's recap this WSR, you were talking about worthless lefties about 2 days ago, and now everything's hunky dory.
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0002JO2Y4.03._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

I see you dont have your sarcasm goggles on. Randy= Dark Cloud or in his word, realist.

White Sox Randy
03-23-2006, 03:16 PM
I see you dont have your sarcasm goggles on. Randy= Dark Cloud or in his word, realist.


Thank you.

SoxSpeed22
03-23-2006, 03:17 PM
I see you dont have your sarcasm goggles on. Randy= Dark Cloud or in his word, realist.Oh, whoops. This was the sarcasm detector I was using, never mind then.

34 Inch Stick
03-23-2006, 03:50 PM
I have always viewed relief pitching as the most volatile commodity in baseball from year to year. You can never really count on past performance being an indicator of the future (with very few instances) because these guys are generally failed starters. Even within a season most relievers do not give you an even performance. So the current down period does not concern me.

EndemicSox
03-23-2006, 04:39 PM
Get that kid on a treadmill, ASAP...

Chip Z'nuff
03-23-2006, 05:15 PM
I always hate to say I told you so, but I told you so (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=66020&highlight=jenks)

soxinem1
03-23-2006, 05:29 PM
This is not true. Muscle weights *TWO TO* THREE TIMES more than fat. So if Bobby or anyone were to add some muscle through weight training, you would not see a drop in weight, unless they were doing extreme calistetics, and cardio to go along with it. Bobby lifted weights a lot this off-season, that is what people have said here, I doubt his working out was much more than that and maybe some light jogging.

While your argument has some credibility, I look at it this way. Does Jenks look like he added 15 lbs. of muscle? He really didn't need it if he did, he needed to lose some size so he could be a little more flexible. He's nowhere near as fluid as he was last year, and it shows.

What he needed was a treadmill/yoga kind of thing and a change in diet. Jenks will always be a big guy and there is nothing wrong with that, but a 162 game season is something he's not used to. We seen it with his B2B appearances last year, he was not as sharp or crisp with his stuff. Plus, righties wore him out all year.

Even when he was a starter, he never started 30 or so games in a year, so last year was the first time he really went wire to wire in a set role.

What this kid needs is some conditioning. They say he was 240 last year (????) and gained at least 15 pounds? C'mon, let's get real.

I don't think anyone in this forum didn't think Jenks should have lost at least 25-30 lbs. and toned himself up a little in the off season. ST should have been his time to work on location and an effective pitching strategy to righties. Instead, he's playing catch up. With a week to go until the season starts he is getting lit up by teams using minor league line ups and/or teams that will not be contenders. His curve is for **** and he's not locating well at all. He also cannot hold a runner for squat. Don't think the opposition does not know this. If he can't hit the side of a barn, they will run, run, run. He doesn't have to throw full power, true, but the control has to be there.

Remember, this is the guy who will be closing the games. He has no reputation for prior 'poor springs' that you can give guys like Westbrook, Byrd, and other veterans a pass on because they are that, veterans with a history.

Bobby should have come to camp trimmed down, toned up, and ready to work on correcting his deficiencies from last year. He should have been required to report to Herm at least every two weeks and follow a regimen to get ready, because the entire AL will be gunning for him this time. And he should also realize on his own that he has a chance to be one of the greats, and he must do what he can to achieve that status.

He's living the dream of millions, he should find the motivation to make himself the best he can be. I just don't think he's taking this all too serious. I hope I'm wrong but I've watched too many a baseball season with guys involved in the same episodes as our friend here, and they wash out in no time.

We can kid ourselves because of the great line up, starters, defense, depth, etc. But if this BP is an issue, all of the other stuff is going to be wasted. This bullpen, and not just Jenks, is starting to raise a red warning flag and it should be a concern.

delben91
03-23-2006, 05:34 PM
With a week to go until the season starts he is getting lit up by teams using minor league line ups and/or teams that will not be contenders. His curve is for **** and he's not locating well at all. He also cannot hold a runner for squat. Don't think the opposition does not know this. If he can't hit the side of a barn, they will run, run, run. He doesn't have to throw full power, true, but the control has to be there.


Wow. Maybe if all that's true we should just try to trade him for a few middle relievers. Fill those holes and move Cotts to the closer's spot.

Or we could give him a chance in the regular season. Either way.

Ol' No. 2
03-23-2006, 06:22 PM
This has gone way beyond ridiculous. It's spring T-R-A-I-N-I-N-G. What part of TRAINING is so hard to understand?:?:

soxinem1
03-23-2006, 08:03 PM
This has gone way beyond ridiculous. It's spring T-R-A-I-N-I-N-G. What part of TRAINING is so hard to understand?:?:

Why is Ozzie talking about pulling the rug from under Bobby's legs then if it's only ST? I think he's been ticked at Jenks since the start of ST.

Jenks looked like a twisted up, intimidated non-roster invitee yesterday, against a team that will probably finish fourth at best. Let's see if he gets away with that type of performance against Texas, NY, Boston, Cleveland.

When will it be time to start pitching effectively then, if not a week and a half before Opening Day? If he's only throwing 70-80% he could at least have some control.

Ol' No. 2
03-23-2006, 08:30 PM
Why is Ozzie talking about pulling the rug from under Bobby's legs then if it's only ST? I think he's been ticked at Jenks since the start of ST.

Jenks looked like a twisted up, intimidated non-roster invitee yesterday, against a team that will probably finish fourth at best. Let's see if he gets away with that type of performance against Texas, NY, Boston, Cleveland.

When will it be time to start pitching effectively then, if not a week and a half before Opening Day? If he's only throwing 70-80% he could at least have some control.The time to start pitching effectively is Sunday, April 2. Before that it doesn't matter one bit.

soxfanatlanta
03-23-2006, 08:51 PM
Why is Ozzie talking about pulling the rug from under Bobby's legs then if it's only ST? I think he's been ticked at Jenks since the start of ST.

Jenks looked like a twisted up, intimidated non-roster invitee yesterday, against a team that will probably finish fourth at best. Let's see if he gets away with that type of performance against Texas, NY, Boston, Cleveland.

When will it be time to start pitching effectively then, if not a week and a half before Opening Day? If he's only throwing 70-80% he could at least have some control.

OK, you made your point; you are not going to convince everybody here. We shall see soon enough. If you are right, well, then Ozzie has some stuff to work on, if you are wrong, then no worries.

soxinem1
03-23-2006, 08:52 PM
The time to start pitching effectively is Sunday, April 2. Before that it doesn't matter one bit.

I usually agree with ya #2, but not on this one. Aren't you the least bit concerned over the BP troubles and some of the names possibly going north with the team? Even Oz is concerned, and rightfully so.

Ol' No. 2
03-23-2006, 08:57 PM
I usually agree with ya #2, but not on this one. Aren't you the least bit concerned over the BP troubles and some of the names possibly going north with the team? Even Oz is concerned, and rightfully so.The only thing that really concerns me is possibly having to find a replacement for Hermanson. The "BP troubles" are ridiculously overblown.

JB98
03-23-2006, 10:16 PM
kinda sick of hearing the whole "its only spring training"

bottom line---- they need to get their act together.

if cotts closes....then is thorton our lefty setup?

i mean MY GOD! All those who choose to ignor the problem and assume they will just turn it on come April second are just nieve. This is a serious problem that now even Ozzie acknowledges. face it.....They have some serious shuffling/work to do.

getting rid of Viscaino was a bad idea. I feel alot better with Viscaino than boone logan. I also feel better with Marte instead of Matt "give me a chance, i'll come around" Thorton.

Lighten up, for God's sake. Ever since you registered, you've been sounding the alarm bell over nothing. Thornton has been on the team for three days, and you're already writing him off. His career numbers do suck, but perhaps Coop can straighten him out. Cliff Politte wasn't exactly a world-beater before he came to the White Sox either, and that acquisition has worked out pretty well for us.

Marte was a piece of crap last year. Watching that guy walk hitter after hitter made me sick to my stomach. We won't miss him. Mackowiak will be a major contributor this year. We got the best of that trade.

Yeah, we'll miss Vizcaino in the middle innings, but if you want a 200-inning guy like Javier Vazquez, you're going to have to give up some quality in return.

ondafarm
03-23-2006, 10:28 PM
Here's my spin on this. Tuscon/ Phoenix in March is a very different place to play than Chicago in April. The temperature, humidity, air pressure and oxygen levels are all different and all affect hitting and pitching differently.

Having said that, I believe that Ozzie is showing some concern over the amount of work Jenks has put in and where he is at. If Jenks fastball was popping well but his breaking stuff and change-ups weren't crisp then I have no worries.

ST doesn't count. If Ozzie was totally happy then I'd be totally happy, that he's a little miffed tells me that Jenks needs to put in a good week and a half of work to get ready for the season. I know that's not impossible. I think Ozzie's comments were meant to be read by one man only, Bobby Jenks.

Ol' No. 2
03-23-2006, 10:33 PM
It seems to me that the people who are in a panic now are the same ones who were having sphincter problems last Sepember. I can't imagine what this place will be like if they should lose the opener. :thud:

Soxfanspcu11
03-23-2006, 10:54 PM
It seems to me that the people who are in a panic now are the same ones who were having sphincter problems last Sepember. I can't imagine what this place will be like if they should lose the opener. :thud:


TELL IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

White Sox Randy
03-24-2006, 08:22 AM
It seems to me that the people who are in a panic now are the same ones who were having sphincter problems last Sepember. I can't imagine what this place will be like if they should lose the opener. :thud:


I wouldn't agree with that. Last year, I was confident about the Sox from day one and never wavered. People would constantly ask me,in August, are the Sox gonna choke. And, I always responded positively that they wouldn't - and I truly felt that way.

Right now, I still feel great about the team as a whole but I don't want us to get off to a bad start because of the bullpen. But, I think we could be ok.

I think Redding is looking pretty good and we should keep him. Let Thornton work his issues out in AAA.

I just feel like we can't replace Viz, Marte and Hermie with McCarthy, Logan and Thornton. Especially, if Jenks is off. We need another reliable reliever in there - maybe Redding can help stabilize some things down there.

I'm not fliipping out over it. I just don't want to blow some winnable games because we have to try to "fix" Matt Thornton.

Anyway, I'm just REALLY chomping at the bit for the season to start and there's nothing else to talk about. I love the team otherwise. I'm even excited about Mack and Cintron !

SBSoxFan
03-24-2006, 01:26 PM
Let Thornton work his issues out in AAA.
Thorton is out of options. I think he has to be released if he doesn't make the team, and the only way the Sox can get him back is if he clears waivers.

SBSoxFan
03-24-2006, 01:28 PM
Here's my spin on this. Tuscon/ Phoenix in March is a very different place to play than Chicago in April. The temperature, humidity, air pressure and oxygen levels are all different and all affect hitting and pitching differently.
Which always made me wonder why teams train in Arizona. Why not Florida where the numbers are more telling?

DachnoPiitu
03-24-2006, 01:34 PM
Has anyone seen the Big Bobby McDonald's commercial? Anyone find a link?
I'd love to see this.

Hope Jenks can close for the Sox this year.

Come on Bobby! YOU CAN DO IT!!!!

Lip Man 1
03-24-2006, 02:22 PM
Follow up in Friday's Southtown:

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/241sd8.htm

Lip

lostletters
03-24-2006, 02:31 PM
I think Politte is coming back into form as well. His last outing was very good. Coop said his mechanics were off a little, and that makes a big differance, he also said alot of pitchers face that same issue, and everything should be in place by the begining of the season.

But Logan, damn, the kid has talent.

Plus Cotts seems to be in the same form as last year, and Ozzie DOES see him as a closer as well. So do not be surprised if Cotts closes out the first few games of the season while Jenks works on returning to form.

Also this strike a little bit at Jenks as a player. He needs to be reminded that he made a mistake and he needs to get back in form. He will be fine, but I am not sure he will be ready that first week.

Ol' No. 2
03-24-2006, 03:09 PM
Follow up in Friday's Southtown:

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/241sd8.htm

LipThis is a classic Ozzie butt-kicking. One thing he knows is how to get players' attention. He'll get Jenks back on track soon enough. This is exactly what spring training is for.

JB98
03-24-2006, 11:31 PM
It seems to me that the people who are in a panic now are the same ones who were having sphincter problems last Sepember. I can't imagine what this place will be like if they should lose the opener. :thud:

Nah. I was ****ting my pants last September. These days, I'm fine. The World Series title has relaxed me quite a bit. :D:

GoSox2K3
03-24-2006, 11:47 PM
Thorton is out of options. I think he has to be released if he doesn't make the team, and the only way the Sox can get him back is if he clears waivers.

Is a player still out of options even after he's traded? Does this mean that Borchard is out of options with Seattle?

Ol' No. 2
03-24-2006, 11:49 PM
Is a player still out of options even after he's traded? Does this mean that Borchard is out of options with Seattle?Yes.

GoSox2K3
03-24-2006, 11:57 PM
Here's my spin on this. Tuscon/ Phoenix in March is a very different place to play than Chicago in April. The temperature, humidity, air pressure and oxygen levels are all different and all affect hitting and pitching differently.

If the AZ conditions make pitching difficult, then what does that say about our anemic hitting this spring? The conditions don't seem to be affecting the hitters facing our bullpen or the pitchers facing our hitters.

By the way, i'm not panicking. But, I am a little concerned. Sure, it's ST and I can appreciate that we're losing alot of games thanks to relief pitchers who aren't going to even going to make the team. I just hope our hitters can get in sync in time for April 2 - it's not that far away.

Ol' No. 2
03-25-2006, 12:01 AM
If the AZ conditions make pitching difficult, then what does that say about our anemic hitting this spring? The conditions don't seem to be affecting the hitters facing our bullpen or the pitchers facing our hitters.

By the way, i'm not panicking. But, I am a little concerned. Sure, it's ST and I can appreciate that we're losing alot of games thanks to relief pitchers who aren't going to even going to make the team. I just hope our hitters can get in sync in time for April 2 - it's not that far away.Anemic hitting? There are 9 guys who are hitting over .300.:o:

GoSox2K3
03-25-2006, 12:04 AM
Anemic hitting? There are 9 guys who are hitting over .300.:o:

Maybe it's just my bad timing. My opinion is colored by the 2 spring training games I attended - including today (only 1 hit thru the first 6 or 7 innings) :-(