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MVP
03-22-2006, 05:45 PM
Most Overrated, Most Underrated.
Who's got your vote?

Most Overrated: Kerry Wood

Most Underrated: Cliff Lee

0o0o0
03-22-2006, 06:13 PM
overrated - Kerry Wood (obviously), Ben Sheets, Tori Hunter

underrated - Carl Crawford, Pat Burrell, Hideki Matsui, Garret Anderson, Raul Ibanez

chaerulez
03-22-2006, 06:33 PM
Ben Sheets is overrated? I know he doesn't have a winning career record but I'd say thats an indication he hasn't played for a team with a decent offense yet. I don't know if Wood is considered a good player to be called overrated anymore. I'd have to say the most overrated is Derek Jeter and underated is Chase Utley.

Deebs14
03-22-2006, 06:42 PM
I have a lot of overrated's, but far too many to list.

My most underrated though is Jorge Cantu. That dude can simply mash!

santo=dorf
03-22-2006, 06:42 PM
Cliff Lee is not underrated, in fact, he's overrated. Here's a post of mine when he finished better in the Cy Young ballot than Buehrle, Garland and Millwood.


Do the voters look at anything besides ERA or wins? I'm not just talking WHIP, K/9 or BB/9.

Cliff ****ing Lee?

Here's something from rotoworld:

Cliff Lee improved to 18-4 despite giving up six runs in 6 2/3 innings against the Royals tonight.
The Indians have actually tried talking up Lee as a Cy Young contender, but that's a joke and an insult to Kevin Millwood, who has been the club's best pitcher. Lee has had a nice season, but at 3.90, he barely ranks in the top 20 in the AL in ERA. Also, six of his 31 starts have come against Kansas City, and the only other team he faced more than twice was a weak Seattle club. He's 1-1 with a 6.43 ERA in his six starts against the Red Sox, Yankees and White Sox.

Cliff Lee won for the 17th time this season after allowing four runs in seven innings against the Royals tonight.
The Indians are just 3 1/2 back of the White Sox now. Kevin Millwood would be the Cy Young favorite if he received Lee's run support. Six times Lee has won without posting a quality start. He is 3-1 with a 5.28 ERA in five starts against the Royals.

Lee was 4th in the AL in run support with 6.46 runs per game.

What a joke. :mad:

eastchicagosoxfan
03-22-2006, 07:02 PM
over rated: Barry Bonds
Ivan Rodriguez
Kerry Wood
Vladimir Guerero

Underated: Juan Uribe
Jermaine Dye
Joe Crede
A.J Perzynski

0o0o0
03-22-2006, 07:13 PM
Ben Sheets is overrated? I know he doesn't have a winning career record but I'd say thats an indication he hasn't played for a team with a decent offense yet. I don't know if Wood is considered a good player to be called overrated anymore. I'd have to say the most overrated is Derek Jeter and underated is Chase Utley.

I'm not implying that Sheets is a bad pitcher or anything, I'm just basing it on the amount that you hear about him. Same goes for Ibanez but sort of the opposite. He's obviously not one of the top hitting OF's, but he's been pretty solid for about 4 years now and you NEVER hear his name.

rowand33
03-22-2006, 07:14 PM
how the hell is Vlad overrated? with his .324 career average and 305 Homers?

give me a break.

chaerulez
03-22-2006, 07:41 PM
how the hell is Vlad overrated? with his .324 career average and 305 Homers?

give me a break.

I agree. He is a top 5 OF in the game. Of course that poster kind of threw credibility out of the window by listing all White Sox in his underrated list. Especially after the exposure they got in the playoffs its hard to say any of the White Sox are underrated. The announcers marveled at Uribe and Crede's defense the entire postseason (and Crede being clutch was pointed out too). Dye won the WS MVP. The starting pitching got a lot of attention, especially after the complete game streak.

MVP
03-22-2006, 10:03 PM
Cliff Lee is not underrated, in fact, he's overrated. Here's a post of mine when he finished better in the Cy Young ballot than Buehrle, Garland and Millwood.

You make some good points about Lee but I wouldn't really go so far as to call Lee overrated, if for nothing more than simply because a lot of people outside of Cleveland don't really seem to know him yet. If anything, some other pitchers that you mentioned like Garland and Buehrle are underrated.

ChiSoxRowand
03-22-2006, 11:06 PM
Overrated: Jeter, Wood, Hunter, Cano
underrated: Michael Young, Chase Utley, Mark Buehrle

PicktoCLick72
03-23-2006, 01:13 AM
Overrated Yankees, Red Sox
Underrated: White Sox

Rooney4Prez56
03-23-2006, 11:25 AM
Overrated : Kerry Wood (nobody's even close)

Underrated : Eric Chavez, Ichiro, Chris Capuano

palehozenychicty
03-23-2006, 12:22 PM
Overrated: Jeter, Damon, Wood, Sheets

Underrated: Crawford, Polanco, Uribe, Wright

Dan Mega
03-23-2006, 12:46 PM
Underrated: Jason Bay
Overrated: Carlos Beltran

Chicken Dinner
03-23-2006, 12:52 PM
Overated: Anyone who improved their numbers with steroid use

Underated: The fans

SoxSpeed22
03-23-2006, 12:54 PM
Scott Podsednik
Overratted:
C- Ivan Rodriguez; 1B-Jason Giambi; 2B- Jeff Kent;
SS- Derek Jeter; 3B- Hank Blalock; LF- Garrett Anderson;
CF- Torii Hunter; RF- JD Drew;
SP- CC Sabathia, Kerry Wood, Brad Radke, AJ Burnett;
RP- BJ Ryan.

Underratted:
C- Brian McCann; 1B- Nick Johnson; 2B- Chase Utley
SS- Jack Wilson; 3B- Garrett Atkins; LF- Jason Bay
CF- Andruw Jones; RF- Geoff Jenkins;
SP- Rich Harden, Freddy Garcia, Jeremy Bonderman, Chris Capuano;
RP- Brian Fuentes

DaleJRFan
03-24-2006, 12:03 PM
Underrated:
Travis Hafner
Melvin Mora
Jermaine Dye
Brian Fuentes
Duaner Sanchez

Overrated:
lame baseball terms, such as Moneyball, etc
Pecota, and all/any acronym used to evaluate players that those using these acronyms have never actually seen play in a real game.

Railsplitter
03-24-2006, 01:34 PM
Most over rated: Cubs

Most under rated: Sox

oeo
03-24-2006, 01:41 PM
Scott Podsednik
Overratted:
C- Ivan Rodriguez; 1B-Jason Giambi; 2B- Jeff Kent;
SS- Derek Jeter; 3B- Hank Blalock; LF- Garrett Anderson;
CF- Torii Hunter; RF- JD Drew;
SP- CC Sabathia, Kerry Wood, Brad Radke, AJ Burnett;
RP- BJ Ryan.

Underratted:
C- Brian McCann; 1B- Nick Johnson; 2B- Chase Utley
SS- Jack Wilson; 3B- Garrett Atkins; LF- Jason Bay
CF- Andruw Jones; RF- Geoff Jenkins;
SP- Rich Harden, Freddy Garcia, Jeremy Bonderman, Chris Capuano;
RP- Brian Fuentes


Why do people say this? I think I hear enough people talking about how great he is, and he's done nothing to prove that he's a good consistent starting pitcher. I wouldn't say he's overrated, but he's definately not underrated, he's right where he should be...average.

munchman33
03-24-2006, 02:10 PM
Overrated: Jeter (might be the most overrated player in history)

Underrated: Zach Duke (this kid doesn't get any press compared to other phenoms like Felix Hernandez, and he could easily win the NL Cy Young this year. He was so dominant last year. The kid made 14 starts, pitching 84 innings had only a 1.81 era! He was 8-2, with the Pirates!)

pythons007
03-24-2006, 02:20 PM
Most overrated player: Soriano

Most underrated player Buehrle

Domeshot17
03-24-2006, 05:16 PM
I honestly dont think Jeter is over rated. maybe over rated for the hype he gets a little, but the guy plays his butt off and has every intangiable any coach looks for.

The most over rated athlete ever is Michael Vick, hands down. In Baseball its not Kerry Wood because no one really cares about him outside of chicago anymore. The Most Over Rated in baseball has to be soriano. He has no plate control, he is a butcher at 2b, and people think he is a future HOF. Put him in the OF and hes a good young player but not special. so it means playing 2b is his value, BUT, hes horrid there. Is he good yes, is he special, no.

Chisox003
03-24-2006, 05:35 PM
I honestly dont think Jeter is over rated. maybe over rated for the hype he gets a little, but the guy plays his butt off and has every intangiable any coach looks for.

The most over rated athlete ever is Michael Vick, hands down. In Baseball its not Kerry Wood because no one really cares about him outside of chicago anymore. The Most Over Rated in baseball has to be soriano. He has no plate control, he is a butcher at 2b, and people think he is a future HOF. Put him in the OF and hes a good young player but not special. so it means playing 2b is his value, BUT, hes horrid there. Is he good yes, is he special, no.
Nice!

I agree, Jeter's a great player. I think he's just easy to dislike.

Kind of like Redick and Duke. It's not that they choose to get all the media coverage that comes their way, it's because of where they play. Easy to dislike? Maybe. Over rated? Nope. Good players, definitely.

SoxFan76
03-24-2006, 05:54 PM
Oh please, the Derek Jeter love fest gets old fast. He's so overrated. Remember when he dove into the stands? It was the greatest moment in sports since the Babe called his shot. Uribe dives into the stands to make a catch in the World Series and it's "a nice play".

Hagan
03-24-2006, 05:55 PM
overrated: Soriano
Underrated: Jason Bay

drewcifer
03-25-2006, 05:18 PM
Calling Jeter overrated is insanity. I'm annoyed by his obnoxious fidgeting (and all the hot tail he scores) but he's been balling at the top for 9 straight years and the numbers show it. The guy does it all.


Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
1995 21 NYY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/1995.shtml) AL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1995.shtml) 15 48 5 12 4 1 0 7 0 0 3 11 .250 .294 .375 18 0 0 0 0 0
1996 22 NYY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/1996.shtml) AL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1996.shtml) 157 582 104 183 25 6 10 78 14 7 48 102 .314 .370 .430 250 6 9 1 9 13
1997 23 NYY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/1997.shtml) AL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1997.shtml) 159 654 116 190 31 7 10 70 23 12 74 125 .291 .370 .405 265 8 2 0 10 14
1998 24 NYY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/1998.shtml) AL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1998.shtml) 149 626 127 203 25 8 19 84 30 6 57 119 .324 .384 .481 301 3 3 1 5 13
1999 25 NYY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/1999.shtml) AL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1999.shtml) 158 627 134 219 37 9 24 102 19 8 91 116 .349 .438 .552 346 3 6 5 12 12
2000 26 NYY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/2000.shtml) AL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2000.shtml) 148 593 119 201 31 4 15 73 22 4 68 99 .339 .416 .481 285 3 3 4 12 14
2001 27 NYY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/2001.shtml) AL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2001.shtml) 150 614 110 191 35 3 21 74 27 3 56 99 .311 .377 .480 295 5 1 3 10 13
2002 28 NYY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/2002.shtml) AL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2002.shtml) 157 644 124 191 26 0 18 75 32 3 73 114 .297 .373 .421 271 3 3 2 7 14
2003 29 NYY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/2003.shtml) AL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2003.shtml) 119 482 87 156 25 3 10 52 11 5 43 88 .324 .393 .450 217 3 1 2 13 10
2004 30 NYY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/2004.shtml) AL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2004.shtml) 154 643 111 188 44 1 23 78 23 4 46 99 .292 .352 .471 303 16 2 1 14 19
2005 31 NYY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/2005.shtml) AL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2005.shtml) 159 654 122 202 25 5 19 70 14 5 77 117 .309 .389 .450 294 7 3 3 11 15
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
11 Seasons 6167 1936 47 763 57 1089 .314 .386 .461 57 33 22 103 137
1525 1159 308 169 215 636 2845

Most Overrated: Soriano
Underrated: Santana

SoxSpeed22
03-25-2006, 05:23 PM
He does have very good numbers and is a very good player, but the fact is that he gets hyped like he's an MVP candidate every time he takes the field is what makes him overrated in our eyes.

TDog
03-25-2006, 05:37 PM
Oh please, the Derek Jeter love fest gets old fast. He's so overrated. Remember when he dove into the stands? It was the greatest moment in sports since the Babe called his shot. Uribe dives into the stands to make a catch in the World Series and it's "a nice play".

Maybe Uribe's underrated.

SoxFan76
03-25-2006, 06:05 PM
Maybe Uribe's underrated.

Well that's a given. We're talking about one of, if not THE best defensive shorstop in the league. Crede got a lot of attention for his glove during the playoffs, and he kinda overshadowed Uribe.

I'd say Crede's defense is no longer underrated.

RKMeibalane
03-25-2006, 06:32 PM
Overrated: Mark Prior
Underrated: Miguel Cabrerra

munchman33
03-25-2006, 11:19 PM
Calling Jeter overrated is insanity. I'm annoyed by his obnoxious fidgeting (and all the hot tail he scores) but he's been balling at the top for 9 straight years and the numbers show it. The guy does it all.


Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
1995 21 NYY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/1995.shtml) AL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1995.shtml) 15 48 5 12 4 1 0 7 0 0 3 11 .250 .294 .375 18 0 0 0 0 0
1996 22 NYY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/1996.shtml) AL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1996.shtml) 157 582 104 183 25 6 10 78 14 7 48 102 .314 .370 .430 250 6 9 1 9 13
1997 23 NYY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/1997.shtml) AL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1997.shtml) 159 654 116 190 31 7 10 70 23 12 74 125 .291 .370 .405 265 8 2 0 10 14
1998 24 NYY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/1998.shtml) AL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1998.shtml) 149 626 127 203 25 8 19 84 30 6 57 119 .324 .384 .481 301 3 3 1 5 13
1999 25 NYY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/1999.shtml) AL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1999.shtml) 158 627 134 219 37 9 24 102 19 8 91 116 .349 .438 .552 346 3 6 5 12 12
2000 26 NYY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/2000.shtml) AL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2000.shtml) 148 593 119 201 31 4 15 73 22 4 68 99 .339 .416 .481 285 3 3 4 12 14
2001 27 NYY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/2001.shtml) AL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2001.shtml) 150 614 110 191 35 3 21 74 27 3 56 99 .311 .377 .480 295 5 1 3 10 13
2002 28 NYY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/2002.shtml) AL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2002.shtml) 157 644 124 191 26 0 18 75 32 3 73 114 .297 .373 .421 271 3 3 2 7 14
2003 29 NYY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/2003.shtml) AL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2003.shtml) 119 482 87 156 25 3 10 52 11 5 43 88 .324 .393 .450 217 3 1 2 13 10
2004 30 NYY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/2004.shtml) AL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2004.shtml) 154 643 111 188 44 1 23 78 23 4 46 99 .292 .352 .471 303 16 2 1 14 19
2005 31 NYY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/2005.shtml) AL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2005.shtml) 159 654 122 202 25 5 19 70 14 5 77 117 .309 .389 .450 294 7 3 3 11 15
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
11 Seasons 6167 1936 47 763 57 1089 .314 .386 .461 57 33 22 103 137
1525 1159 308 169 215 636 2845

Most Overrated: Soriano
Underrated: Santana

Jeter has the worst range of any shortstop in the last decade. And yet all the critics laud him as a good defensive player, if not great. Jeter is the pinacle when it comes to an overrated player.

FedEx227
03-26-2006, 03:16 AM
Overrated: Kerry Wood, Mark Prior, Alfonso Soriano
Underrated: Miguel Cabrera, Raul Ibanez, Matt Holliday, Jorge Cantu, Zach Duke, I could go on for days.

This is a hard topic to just think up on the fly, its one of those things that you have to tally as you watch games and hear about the guys.

Chisox003
03-26-2006, 03:36 AM
He does have very good numbers and is a very good player, but the fact is that he gets hyped like he's an MVP candidate every time he takes the field is what makes him overrated in our eyes.
He might be overhyped, but that's the media my friend. Overhyped and over rated are 2 different things, the latter of which Jeter isn't IMO. But that's an endless debate, really.

Fedex, Zach Duke is not under rated. He's only pitched half a season!

Raul Ibanez on the other hand....good call. The man could flat out hit, same goes for Mike Sweeney. Unfortunately, both go relatively unnoticed due to where they play.

FedEx227
03-26-2006, 03:57 AM
Fedex, Zach Duke is not under rated. He's only pitched half a season!

Yeah I do see where you're coming from here, I just think an 8-2 start from a Pirates call-up should get a bit more recognition then Felix Hernandez (who I won't say is bad, because hes a phenom)... that was all I was going with there, but ya I agree not really under rated

Another hitter in the Ibanez/Sweeney category is Shea Hillenbrand, look at this guys stats:

2003- 20 HRS, 97 RBIs, .280 avg, .314 OBP
2004- 15 HRs, 80 RBI, .310 avg, .348 OBP
2005- 18 HRs, 82 RBI, .291 avg, .343 OBP

not VERY impressive, but great consistency add in the fact that he almost never strikes out.

Chisox003
03-26-2006, 01:56 PM
Yeah I do see where you're coming from here, I just think an 8-2 start from a Pirates call-up should get a bit more recognition then Felix Hernandez (who I won't say is bad, because hes a phenom)... that was all I was going with there, but ya I agree not really under rated

Another hitter in the Ibanez/Sweeney category is Shea Hillenbrand, look at this guys stats:

2003- 20 HRS, 97 RBIs, .280 avg, .314 OBP
2004- 15 HRs, 80 RBI, .310 avg, .348 OBP
2005- 18 HRs, 82 RBI, .291 avg, .343 OBP

not VERY impressive, but great consistency add in the fact that he almost never strikes out.
Another good one.

I never understood why this guy couldn't find a starting job and keep it. First in Boston, then in Arizona, finally Toronto he's getting some PT. He's a very good hitter.

Funny you should mention that about strikeouts....I had him on my fantasy team last year and on the last day of the season (MLB and fantasy), the Jays had a double header. Shea went 0-7 with 7 K's. :o:

santo=dorf
03-26-2006, 02:34 PM
Yeah I do see where you're coming from here, I just think an 8-2 start from a Pirates call-up should get a bit more recognition then Felix Hernandez (who I won't say is bad, because hes a phenom)... that was all I was going with there, but ya I agree not really under rated

Another hitter in the Ibanez/Sweeney category is Shea Hillenbrand, look at this guys stats:

2003- 20 HRS, 97 RBIs, .280 avg, .314 OBP
2004- 15 HRs, 80 RBI, .310 avg, .348 OBP
2005- 18 HRs, 82 RBI, .291 avg, .343 OBP

not VERY impressive, but great consistency add in the fact that he almost never strikes out.
Hillenbrand consistently sucks.

He also doesn't walk, is a hack at third, and a career .775 OPS from a DH/1B/3B is embarrassing.

soxinem1
03-26-2006, 07:53 PM
Yeah I do see where you're coming from here, I just think an 8-2 start from a Pirates call-up should get a bit more recognition then Felix Hernandez (who I won't say is bad, because hes a phenom)... that was all I was going with there, but ya I agree not really under rated

Another hitter in the Ibanez/Sweeney category is Shea Hillenbrand, look at this guys stats:

2003- 20 HRS, 97 RBIs, .280 avg, .314 OBP
2004- 15 HRs, 80 RBI, .310 avg, .348 OBP
2005- 18 HRs, 82 RBI, .291 avg, .343 OBP

not VERY impressive, but great consistency add in the fact that he almost never strikes out.

He's mid-level at best. He makes contact, but his production is below average for a DH/1B, and he's a butcher at 3B. Plus he hits into a ton of DP's.

Overrated: Recent past: Brady Anderson, today: Kerry Wood

Underated: past: Billy Pierce, today: Todd Helton

SoxSpeed22
03-26-2006, 09:19 PM
Underated: past: Billy Pierce, today: Todd HeltonIf Helton was on a good team, he would be a regular for MVP voting. The problem is, he's not.

FedEx227
03-26-2006, 09:59 PM
The problem is he hits .250 away from the Friendliest of all Confines.

santo=dorf
03-26-2006, 10:29 PM
The problem is he hits .250 away from the Friendliest of all Confines.
.297/.397/.518/.915 career away from Coors.

Way to do your research.

soxinem1
03-30-2006, 12:30 PM
[quote=santo=dorf].297/.397/.518/.915 career away from Coors.
quote]

And he makes good contact for a power hitter. He reminds me of a left handed Frank Thomas when he was a little younger. Very under-rated.
He could play for me any day, even if it's with his road stats exclusively.

asindc
03-30-2006, 05:09 PM
Oh please, the Derek Jeter love fest gets old fast. He's so overrated. Remember when he dove into the stands? It was the greatest moment in sports since the Babe called his shot. Uribe dives into the stands to make a catch in the World Series and it's "a nice play".

Gotta chime in here. Jeter is definitely not overrated. Winnning is the thing, and he is one of the best clutch performers in the game, this past playoffs notwithstanding.

I agree that Uribe's plays were more impressive, but Jeter's dive was no small feat on top of the other winning plays he has made in the playoffs. Actually, Joe Buck called Uribe's plays "breathtaking." On one of the NYY fans boards, guys were raving about Uribe, some even saying Uribe's plays were more impressive.

If some in the media lack perspective, I won't blame that on Jeter. With that said:

Overrated: Kerry Wood, and not just because he's a Cub; Soriano.

Underrated: Buehrle, and not just because he's a Sox; Vernon Wells.

maurice
03-30-2006, 05:41 PM
Uribe dove into the stands and then caught the ball. Jeter caught the ball, took three out-of-control steps, and then fell into the stands because he couldn't stop himself.

Jeter is a very good #2 hitter, but Uribe's D >>> Jeter's D. It's not even close. If Jeter played for KC, you'd never hear a word about him from ESPN, et al.