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White Sox Randy
03-21-2006, 10:59 AM
I find it hilarious that KW can now do no wrong as a GM, yet before last season he could do no right with many Sox fans. Which is it ?

Before last season, I was constantly defending KW on this site. Posters hated the Jermaine Dye signing.... Joe Crede was a bust... Hermanson sucks... We wouldn't be able to score runs without Maggs... The Sox could only hit 150 homers.... Garland was a no.5 pitcher..... Pods OPS would only be .310... The Contreras trade was bad....this team won't reach .500....we will finish in 3rd place.....

This year, it's the opposite. Apparently, Don Cooper can take any 10 WSI members at random and turn them into Hall of famers - even if it takes him a week or two.......now, if KW says a guy has some potential then it's a lock that he'll play in this year's All-Star game. Everyone's forgotten KW'S past blunders.

Personally, I predicted that we would win the divison last year. Although I would have never imagined our post season success. This year, I'm predicting another division win. I like all of KW'S offseason moves. I do think that not adding a veteran reliever could come back to bite us.

So, I'm asking for your rankings of KW,as a GM, in comparison to the other 29 GM's out there. A few years ago, I thought that he was pretty bad - maybe a 3 or 4. He's definitely learned a lot on the job - now I'd say that he is an 8, on a scale of 1-10.

Also, should he still be held accountable for past mistakes even though we won a World Series ? What if we miss the playoffs this year - how would you rank him then ?

Unregistered
03-21-2006, 11:03 AM
should he still be held accountable for past mistakes even though we won a World Series ? What if we miss the playoffs this year - how would you rank him then ?"Even though" we won a WORLD ****ING SERIES?!?!? :rolleyes:

Uh, yeah - I'd say he gets a pass on all past transactions based on bringing a World Championship to Chicago within 5 years of becoming GM - after 88 years of futility.

As of right now, the GM of the defending World Champions should get a 10. Until 2006 is over and done with, his grade can only reflect the past year, IMO.

PennStater98r
03-21-2006, 11:06 AM
I've liked KW movies, and I never really ripped on him for things like hanging on to Crede and Garland (I would have been upset if he had moved Garland for Erstad).

However, I do have to say that if he did have a "Get out of jail free" card, he used it on the Todd Richie deal.

Crede_Fan
03-21-2006, 11:06 AM
"Even though" we won a WORLD ****ING SERIES?!?!? :rolleyes:

Uh, yeah - I'd say he gets a pass on all past transactions based on bringing a World Championship to Chicago within 5 years of becoming GM - after 88 years of futility.

As of right now, the GM of the defending World Champions should get a 10. Until 2006 is over and done with, his grade can only reflect the past year, IMO.

Completely agree! He has to rate a 10. A WS Champion GM can't be anything other than a 10.

TheOldRoman
03-21-2006, 11:06 AM
:darkclouds::chickenlittle:darkcloud:
Don't try to disquise your dark cloud garbage as a legitimate thread. You were torn to shreds in the other thread for this, and now you come here to spread more ****. I find it hilarious that you think a lack of a 2nd lefty will cripple the Sox. You are wrong, KW is not. You are not proving anything by starting this thread.

Oh yeah, ...
:threadsucks and:threadblows:

anewman35
03-21-2006, 11:10 AM
Also, should he still be held accountable for past mistakes even though we won a World Series ? What if we miss the playoffs this year - how would you rank him then ?

Kenny put together the only White Sox team in 88 years to win a World Series. What possible other measure could there be? Name one better GM the White Sox have ever had. Name one GM in all of baseball who had a better 2005.

Baby Fisk
03-21-2006, 11:10 AM
KW = http://cyndi.com/items/3819.jpg

Seriously. Kenny, Ozzie, Jerry. This trio gave us all what we waited our entire lives for. They can do nothing else for this organization and they would still deserve to be honoured. We made it to baseball's promised land with KW.

0o0o0
03-21-2006, 11:12 AM
I find it hilarious that KW can now do no wrong as a GM, yet before last season he could do no right with many Sox fans. Which is it ?

Before last season, I was constantly defending KW on this site. Posters hated the Jermaine Dye signing.... Joe Crede was a bust... Hermanson sucks... We wouldn't be able to score runs without Maggs... The Sox could only hit 150 homers.... Garland was a no.5 pitcher..... Pods OPS would only be .310... The Contreras trade was bad....this team won't reach .500....we will finish in 3rd place.....

This year, it's the opposite. Apparently, Don Cooper can take any 10 WSI members at random and turn them into Hall of famers - even if it takes him a week or two.......now, if KW says a guy has some potential then it's a lock that he'll play in this year's All-Star game. Everyone's forgotten KW'S past blunders.

Personally, I predicted that we would win the divison last year. Although I would have never imagined our post season success. This year, I'm predicting another division win. I like all of KW'S offseason moves. I do think that not adding a veteran reliever could come back to bite us.

So, I'm asking for your rankings of KW,as a GM, in comparison to the other 29 GM's out there. A few years ago, I thought that he was pretty bad - maybe a 3 or 4. He's definitely learned a lot on the job - now I'd say that he is an 8, on a scale of 1-10.

Also, should he still be held accountable for past mistakes even though we won a World Series ? What if we miss the playoffs this year - how would you rank him then ?

you actually expected dye to be healty all year and hermanson to go about a month before giving up his first run?

i think the easy answer is that a gm is as good as his team, meaning the sox win the world series, kenny = 10. of course that wouldn't take into account career years, injuries (or lack thereof), and just plain luck. i would give kenny an 8, and even if they miss the playoffs, he'd still get an 8 because as of right now we can all agree that he's put together a great team. kenny's done his job. IMO, if the sox don't make the playoffs, that's all on the players, coaches, and manager.

SoxFan78
03-21-2006, 11:12 AM
I find it hilarious that KW can now do no wrong as a GM, yet before last season he could do no right with many Sox fans. Which is it ?

Before last season, I was constantly defending KW on this site. Posters hated the Jermaine Dye signing.... Joe Crede was a bust... Hermanson sucks... We wouldn't be able to score runs without Maggs... The Sox could only hit 150 homers.... Garland was a no.5 pitcher..... Pods OPS would only be .310... The Contreras trade was bad....this team won't reach .500....we will finish in 3rd place.....

This year, it's the opposite. Apparently, Don Cooper can take any 10 WSI members at random and turn them into Hall of famers - even if it takes him a week or two.......now, if KW says a guy has some potential then it's a lock that he'll play in this year's All-Star game. Everyone's forgotten KW'S past blunders.

Personally, I predicted that we would win the divison last year. Although I would have never imagined our post season success. This year, I'm predicting another division win. I like all of KW'S offseason moves. I do think that not adding a veteran reliever could come back to bite us.

So, I'm asking for your rankings of KW,as a GM, in comparison to the other 29 GM's out there. A few years ago, I thought that he was pretty bad - maybe a 3 or 4. He's definitely learned a lot on the job - now I'd say that he is an 8, on a scale of 1-10.

Also, should he still be held accountable for past mistakes even though we won a World Series ? What if we miss the playoffs this year - how would you rank him then ?

Out of 10? I give him a 35.

*****, I dont think you would be happy if the Sox went 161-1.

DaleJRFan
03-21-2006, 11:15 AM
I find it hilarious that KW can now do no wrong as a GM, yet before last season he could do no right with many Sox fans. Which is it ??

http://whitesoxpride.mlblogs.com/trophy.jpg

He's #1 in my book.

Locked up a rotation of five #1 starting pitchers for several years, inked PK long term, added Thome, signed Dye and Politte at bargain basement prices, took a big chance on AJ, drafted McCarthy, Brian Anderson, Ryan Sweeney (who is going to be a star), Josh Fields, and the numerous other top prospects that have a shot, traded for Jenks and Owens (edit: he didn't trade for Jenks, but you get the point.. got something for nothing), added Mackowiak and Cintron... what the hell else does this guy have to do to prove he is one of the best baseball executives out there? Win 4 or 5 consecutive world series?

What are the negatives? Todd Ritchie and Billy Koch? Every GM makes a mistake or two, a bad trade or signing here and there... and as opposed to the positives listed above, I'd have to say that KW is one of the best Gms in baseball.

Rooney4Prez56
03-21-2006, 11:15 AM
I see what you're saying, but I've gotta give him a 10. A World Series win erases pretty much all of the past mistakes.

Wrong place at the wrong time with this thread.

cleanwsox
03-21-2006, 11:16 AM
Name me one GM that hasn't executed a few bad moves in their tenure?

A GM that wins a World Series, especially with a payroll in the middle of the pack is a top notch GM...... enough said.

anewman35
03-21-2006, 11:21 AM
What are the negatives? Todd Ritchie and Billy Koch?

And an important thing about the Billy Koch trade, in retrospect - sure, Koch sucked, but we also got Neal Cotts in that trade. And right now, who would you rather have, Keith Foulke (who would have been gone as a FA anyway) or Neal Cotts?

DaleJRFan
03-21-2006, 11:24 AM
And an important thing about the Billy Koch trade, in retrospect - sure, Koch sucked, but we also got Neal Cotts in that trade. And right now, who would you rather have, Keith Foulke (who would have been gone as a FA anyway) or Neal Cotts?

:D: I figured that was implied. The issue is that every KW hater out there (eh hem... WhiteSoxRandy) insist on bringing up the Koch and Ritchie trades in every single argument. Quit beating a dead horse. That was how many years ago???

oh yea, and I'd much rather have Cotts. :cool:

Maybe we can start a "Rank WhiteSoxRandy as a WSI Poster" thread in the ****house.

voodoochile
03-21-2006, 11:39 AM
Keep digging, Randy. It's the only way you are sure to get out of this hole...

Let's see...

Iguchi
Uribe
Contreras
Vazquez
El Duque
Thome
Dye
AJ
Garcia
Cotts
Politte
Jenks
Hermanson

Ozzie

and a little thing called a World Series Trophy

are all KW acquisitions... Looks like he's doing a fine job to me...

The Critic
03-21-2006, 11:42 AM
I will add that even after winning the World Series, Ken Williams has made moves to address what he preceives as areas of concern. He's acquired yet another innings-eating starter, a power lefty for DH, and two QUALITY bench players/spot starters.

I'd say he's a pretty damn good GM.

Hangar18
03-21-2006, 11:47 AM
Having a little money to spend, is showing KW to be a very good GM, and I mean that in a good way. Of course people ripped on him earlier because, guess what? He made some pretty bad deals (Trading your promising minorleague pitchers for a .500 NL pitcher :o: ? Trading for a minor-league player only to have the other team embarrass you by pulling a bait-and-switch :o: ??)

Kenny has done a very good job, (barring his Thomas outburst-media baited him) he has been forthcoming to his players, which means a lot

ArkanSox
03-21-2006, 11:48 AM
A+

BanditJimmy
03-21-2006, 11:49 AM
He (KW) sucks. Why did it take him 5 years to get us a World Series?


(Is this the correct teal?)

daveeym
03-21-2006, 11:52 AM
Keep digging, Randy. It's the only way you are sure to get out of this hole... Hey maybe he'll find the Sox a left handed reliever when he emerges over in Japan or China or where ever he emerges.

palehozenychicty
03-21-2006, 11:55 AM
KW = http://cyndi.com/items/3819.jpg

Seriously. Kenny, Ozzie, Jerry. This trio gave us all what we waited our entire lives for. They can do nothing else for this organization and they would still deserve to be honoured. We made it to baseball's promised land with KW.

No more needs to be said than that.

EastCoastSoxFan
03-21-2006, 11:56 AM
Ken Williams is one of the top few GM's in ALL OF SPORTS.
Has he always been? Of course not.
Was he maybe in a little over his head when he first took over as GM? Probably.
But over the course of his tenure he has replaced most of the people he inherited with people of his own choosing and has progressively gotten better at the business of making trades, developing talent, and running a professional sports team.
All of this culminated in a World Series win in '05 and a team that is built to compete for championships for the next several years, as well as a minor league system with several bona fide major league prospects.
There are few, if any, GM's in ANY SPORT who are head and shoulders above Kenny...

cleanwsox
03-21-2006, 11:59 AM
:KW >>> http://totalworkout.homestead.com/files/chuck2.jpg



I thought we already went over this. :?:

Ol' No. 2
03-21-2006, 12:05 PM
I'm pretty disappointed he's won only one World Series.:rolleyes:

You need to lay in a good supply of these:

:prozac:

There's still more than a week of spring training left.

34 Inch Stick
03-21-2006, 12:18 PM
I find it hilarious that KW can now do no wrong as a GM, yet before last season he could do no right with many Sox fans. Which is it ?

?

You must be easily amused as these are not necessarily inconsistent positions.

I give KW a 10 right now. I have not had a problem with any move that he has made since before Pods, Viz, + for Lee.

voodoochile
03-21-2006, 12:22 PM
You must be easily amused as these are not necessarily inconsistent positions.

I give KW a 10 right now. I have not had a problem with any move that he has made since before Pods, Viz, + for Lee.

Exactly. If 5 years ago they told you, "The Sox are going to hire (insert name here) and within 5 years the Sox will be World Series Champions but along the way there are going to be some moves that are going to make you scratch your head or scream out loud in anguish" what would be your reaction?

A) Damn, those moves in the middle are going to suck, fire this guy. He is obviously not cut out to be GM.

B) WOOHOOO!

I know what my reaction is... :D: :moonwalk:

mccoydp
03-21-2006, 12:23 PM
This is an absolute no-brainer. Kenny is tops in baseball right now, hands down.

Next question? :?:

PennStater98r
03-21-2006, 12:23 PM
He (KW) sucks. Why did it take him 5 years to get us a World Series?


(Is this the correct teal?)

:tealpolice: This answer your question?

Ol' No. 2
03-21-2006, 12:25 PM
Exactly. If 5 years ago they told you, "The Sox are going to hire (insert name here) and within 5 years the Sox will be World Series Champions but along the way there are going to be some moves that are going to make you scratch your head or scream out loud in anguish" what would be your reaction?

A) Damn, those moves in the middle are going to suck, fire this guy. He is obviously not cut out to be GM.

B) WOOHOOO!

I know what my reaction is... :D: :moonwalk:
Should this be a poll? :redneck

voodoochile
03-21-2006, 12:29 PM
Should this be a poll? :redneck

Well so far it looks pretty unanimous...

Sox fans may not be consistent, but we do understand a WS trophy outweighs all that other crap...

SouthSide_HitMen
03-21-2006, 12:33 PM
It is too early to tell how he will ultimately rank but I put him at a B+ / A - for his 5 + years with an A+ for 2005 and an A to start 2006.

I would have given him a C+ / B- heading into last offseason but he was able to use the money wisely (saved from Lee / Mags) and was able to get JR to spend a few million more than the budget called for in 2005 which bumped him to the B range heading into the season.

Of course nobody is perfect (Koch, Ritchie) but he has more than made up for any mistakes and he deserves credit for the 2005 & 2006 team no matter how things pan out this season (85 wins, 95 wins or 105 wins). Kenny put the best team possible in the clubhouse - it is job of the 25 + men signed (with the help of Ozzie, the coaches and overlooked trainers) to perform.

White Sox Randy
03-21-2006, 12:35 PM
I don't know why anyone would call me a KW hater. If you are, you are WAY off base.

I've been far more suportive of him than about 90% of Sox fans. I've been very happy that the Sox have averaged 88 wins over the last 6 seasons - although the 95 wins in 2000 have to be credited to Schueller.

Yes, I expected Dye to be healthy and put up good numbers last year. I liked the Hermanson pickup although I never thought that he would save all those games.

I HATED the Todd Ritchie trade and still think it was one of the dumbest I have ever seen. I didn't like the David Wells trade either even though Sirotka blew his arm out. I just hate David Wells.

And, how would KW rate if Maggs had accepted his offer last year ?

Like I said, KW has gotten a lot better. He is not the best GM in the business but he is quite good. Maybe hiring Ozzie was his best move ?

As far as this season goes, I'm jacked. The only thing bothering me about this team is the lack of veterans in the bullpen. I would like to see one more veteran that we can count on down there. Counting on Boone Logan and Matt Thornton is risky.

Our division is the toughest in baseball -only KC is weak. We are going to have constant battles with the Twins, Indians and Tigers all year long. I would hate to miss the playoffs by a game or two because of a fixable bullpen issue.

I'm not really worried about it because I'm confident that if it becomes a dire need then KW will make a move.

I'm still predicting a division title and big years from Contreras, Garland,Uribe,Crede and Iguchi.

Unregistered
03-21-2006, 12:46 PM
I don't know why anyone would call me a KW hater. If you are, you are WAY off base.

I've been far more suportive of him than about 90% of Sox fans. I've been very happy that the Sox have averaged 88 wins over the last 6 seasons - although the 95 wins in 2000 have to be credited to Schueller.

Yes, I expected Dye to be healthy and put up good numbers last year. I liked the Hermanson pickup although I never thought that he would save all those games.

I HATED the Todd Ritchie trade and still think it was one of the dumbest I have ever seen. I didn't like the David Wells trade either even though Sirotka blew his arm out. I just hate David Wells.

And, how would KW rate if Maggs had accepted his offer last year ?

Like I said, KW has gotten a lot better. He is not the best GM in the business but he is quite good. Maybe hiring Ozzie was his best move ?

As far as this season goes, I'm jacked. The only thing bothering me about this team is the lack of veterans in the bullpen. I would like to see one more veteran that we can count on down there. Counting on Boone Logan and Matt Thornton is risky.

Our division is the toughest in baseball -only KC is weak. We are going to have constant battles with the Twins, Indians and Tigers all year long. I would hate to miss the playoffs by a game or two because of a fixable bullpen issue.

I'm not really worried about it because I'm confident that if it becomes a dire need then KW will make a move.

I'm still predicting a division title and big years from Contreras, Garland,Uribe,Crede and Iguchi.You really need to see someone about those mood swings. :cool:

fquaye149
03-21-2006, 12:47 PM
Kenny put together the only White Sox team in 88 years to win a World Series. What possible other measure could there be? Name one better GM the White Sox have ever had. Name one GM in all of baseball who had a better 2005.

Marc Shapiro :wink:

Randar68
03-21-2006, 12:49 PM
I gave KW a B heading into last season. He had shown steady improvement, had picked up some big-time contributors for nothing and the farm system he inherited had done nothingfor him for the most part. He had been aggressive, show a willingness to take chances.

A couple of them blew up in his face for various reasons (Wells/Sirotka and Todd Ritchie) but he had made a lot of good moves in terms of acquiring talent to fit his new manager's system.

I never imagined it would blossom as it did, getting Bobby Jenks for nothing, and we don't even go to the playoffs without him, IMO. Iguchi being such a great #2 hitter for Ozzie's style, Dye being so healthy and productive after a couple of down years... on and on and on.

He's getting an A+ from me right now based on the fact that he has evolved so much as a GM in this business. From coming in and having tantrums, ruining Jon Rauch's arm, making brash statements about the clubhouse, inside and outside of it, etc...

To what he is now, confident, more calm, thoughtful, having a good staff around him to help him through the day-to-day organizational things. He's really been a great hire and I never would have thought he'd have been as successful from an organization, structure, management point of view as he has been. I figured advanced scouting and aggressively seeking to improve the team through trades would be his strong suits, but he's added so much more.

wilburaga
03-21-2006, 01:06 PM
To what he is now, confident, more calm, thoughtful, having a good staff around him to help him through the day-to-day organizational things. He's really been a great hire and I never would have thought he'd have been as successful from an organization, structure, management point of view as he has been. I figured advanced scouting and aggressively seeking to improve the team through trades would be his strong suits, but he's added so much more.

I totally agree. Besides the trades, signings and other business matters, Kenny brings other intangibles to the table. His aggressive advocacy of the organization and its fans bespeaks his palpable desire to win, and win with class. Players want to play here, and other fans are jealous of us. Kenny played a large part in all this and for that he has my eternal gratitude, and a ranking of '10'.

W

russ99
03-21-2006, 01:16 PM
I totally agree. Besides the trades, signings and other business matters, Kenny brings other intangibles to the table. His aggressive advocacy of the organization and its fans bespeaks his palpable desire to win, and win with class. Players want to play here, and other fans are jealous of us. Kenny played a large part in all this and for that he has my eternal gratitude, and a ranking of '10'.

W

Agreed - Kenny is the five-star general of "changing the culture" of baseball in this town, and we're the footsoldiers. Start convincing a Cub-fan friend to turn away from the dark side today! :D:

White Sox Randy
03-21-2006, 01:22 PM
Agreed - Kenny is the five-star general of "changing the culture" of baseball in this town, and we're the footsoldiers. Start convincing a Cub-fan friend to turn away from the dark side today! :D:

We are one good year away from that happening. I predict that if the Sox make the playoffs and the cubs don't - you'll start to see some exodus.

Randar68
03-21-2006, 01:27 PM
We are one good year away from that happening. I predict that if the Sox make the playoffs and the cubs don't - you'll start to see some exodus.

*** are you talking about? The Sox have sold 2.2 million tickets long before Spring Training even kicked into gear...

The Cubs will still sell tickets, but who cares? The momentum built on the South Side has nothing to do with how many tickets they sell to the World's Most Expensive Outdoor Bar.

SoxEd
03-21-2006, 01:42 PM
I would hate to miss the playoffs by a game or two because of a fixable bullpen issue.

I freely acknowledge the perfectly reasonable nature of the rest of your post, but I have to question the bit that I've quoted above:

Who in Baseball (now that Loria's Marlins Firesale is over) is going to give the defending WS Champions the final piece they need in order to further strengthen themselves over the team that went wire-to-wire in the 2005 Season and then 11-1 in the 2005 Post-Season?
:?:

The 'select' pool described above shrinks even further when you factor in that what we need/want is that rara avis a Lefty Bullpen Ace (if such a beast can indeed be said to exist), and that all we can offer in exchange would be a bag of balls, or a bag of balls plus e.g. a bust of an outfielder.

I'm not only prepared to give KW major credit for last year (when he was still operating very much Under the Radar)...

...but also for the Trades he's made so far this year!

Because, now that the World and His Wife know that 'Kenny Is da Man', all the other GM's have not only become wise to his 'stealthy' ways, but are also gunning for our black-and-white-pinstriped ass.


But that's just, you know, my opinion, man...

Slainte,
Ed.

kevin57
03-21-2006, 01:51 PM
I hear what you're saying about how "mercurial" posters can be. Yes, there are those who now love KW who despised every move he made pre-2005, just as there were those who hated Guillen up to the moment he brought the team to the WS.

That said, you've got to give high marks to Kenny, even before 2005. Was every move brilliant? No. But did he have the guts to be aggressive and pretty damn smart. Yes. Yes. Yes. I give him a solid "A" grade.

White Sox Randy
03-21-2006, 01:55 PM
I freely acknowledge the perfectly reasonable nature of the rest of your post, but I have to question the bit that I've quoted above:

Who in Baseball (now that Loria's Marlins Firesale is over) is going to give the defending WS Champions the final piece they need in order to further strengthen themselves over the team that went wire-to-wire in the 2005 Season and then 11-1 in the 2005 Post-Season?
:?:

The 'select' pool described above shrinks even further when you factor in that what we need/want is that rara avis a Lefty Bullpen Ace (if such a beast can indeed be said to exist), and that all we can offer in exchange would be a bag of balls, or a bag of balls plus e.g. a bust of an outfielder.

I'm not only prepared to give KW major credit for last year (when he was still operating very much Under the Radar)...

...but also for the Trades he's made so far this year!

Because, now that the World and His Wife know that 'Kenny Is da Man', all the other GM's have not only become wise to his 'stealthy' ways, but are also gunning for our black-and-white-pinstriped ass.


But that's just, you know, my opinion, man...

Slainte,
Ed.


Great post, Ed. I understand your thinking but other teams are dealing with Kenny now and they have their holes to fill. He managed to get a heckuva a player in Jim Thome.

I also haven't acknowledged one reason that I believe that Kenny did not sign a reliever (Howry,Eyre,etc.) and that he is having a hard time trading for one. And that is that Politte and Cotts have been so good yet they are being paid very little.

He probably does not want to throw the salary structure out of wack by paying some veteran 2.5 mil. that is not as good as Cliff (1.2 mi.) or Cotts (even less ). Or risk upsetting them. That's my opinion.

spiffie
03-21-2006, 02:00 PM
I hear what you're saying about how "mercurial" posters can be. Yes, there are those who now love KW who despised every move he made pre-2005, just as there were those who hated Guillen up to the moment he brought the team to the WS.
Actually, I suspect there are still folks on this board who would rather the Sox have hired Cito Gaston instead of Ozzie. It was funny, a few days ago I was looking back at the threads after Ozzie was hired and seeing how many of our more knowledgeable posters (no teal, they are knowledgeable) were totally aghast at this move and predicted nothing but failure for the team with Ozzie in charge. The fact that otherwise quite smart people could be so wonderfully mistaken about that move speaks volumes to how well Williams has done as GM.

Randar68
03-21-2006, 02:02 PM
Actually, I suspect there are still folks on this board who would rather the Sox have hired Cito Gaston instead of Ozzie. It was funny, a few days ago I was looking back at the threads after Ozzie was hired and seeing how many of our more knowledgeable posters (no teal, they are knowledgeable) were totally aghast at this move and predicted nothing but failure for the team with Ozzie in charge. The fact that otherwise quite smart people could be so wonderfully mistaken about that move speaks volumes to how well Williams has done as GM.

Hey I was one of those, frankly, because I never imagined KW would be able to transform a team full of veteran plodding base-cloggers with long-term contracts into a team that played Ozzie's style.

D. TODD
03-21-2006, 02:08 PM
I guess the old saying "you can't argue with success" doesn't always apply. How could I rate KW anything less then the top shelf. He brought the title to the southside that's enough for me. Now that doesn't mean he's perfect, or gets a lifetime pass on his job from here on out, but he is defiantly top shelf as a g.m. up to this point.

1951Campbell
03-21-2006, 02:10 PM
I find it hilarious that KW can now do no wrong as a GM, yet before last season he could do no right with many Sox fans. Which is it ?



Before last year, I thought KW put together what could be around a 92-win team and possibly win the division (I was never in the "do no right" camp). Around 92 wins? That's pretty good. In fact, KW put together a team that won the World Series. That's excellent.

I'm results-oriented. Last year's result was a World Series win. If KW was a poor talent evaluator in the past, I can only conclude that he learned a thing or two between the end of 2004 and the trade deadline in 2005.

Jjav829
03-21-2006, 02:10 PM
I give him an 8 because I think that whenever you are judging someone you have to account for the totality of their career. You can't just take the most recent year and use that to justify your opinion. It's also my opinion that a 10 would mean that the GM is perfect, and since no GM is, I would say a 10 is almost unreachable.

soxfanatlanta
03-21-2006, 02:11 PM
If I were grading him on the personnel moves from the past 2 years alone, he would earn an A from me, IMO. Considering some of the stinkers in the past (Sirotka and Todd Ritchie) I'm going to bump him down to a B+. What will really determine his legacy is this year; putting together a championship is hard enough, but successfully defending one is a whole different ball-o-wax.

One thing that I will hold against him is his professionalism: his recent tirade against Thomas galvanized people's argument that he can be petty. As a representative of the Sox, I just wish he would bite his tongue a bit more on the parting shots of ex-players. Just an opinion.

One thing is for sure: he helped bring home a ring to the South side, and for that, I will always be grateful.

100 Year Itch
03-21-2006, 02:20 PM
I think Williams is granted too much credit for the White Sox success last year, and Ozzie not nearly enough.

IMO, Guillen formulated the overall outline, Williams colored it in.

Randar68
03-21-2006, 02:21 PM
I think Williams is granted too much credit for the White Sox success last year, and Ozzie not nearly enough.

IMO, Guillen formulated the overall outline, Williams colored it in.

I'm sorry, but did I miss the part where someone other than Kenny Williams hired Ozzie?

KW's responsible for a lot more than just the 25 guys on the major league roster every year, buddy.

Fungo
03-21-2006, 02:26 PM
Hey I was one of those, frankly, because I never imagined KW would be able to transform a team full of veteran plodding base-cloggers with long-term contracts into a team that played Ozzie's style.
Count me in the mix as well. Not that I was a Gaston fan, but more that I didn't like Guillen. Williams gets an A+ in my book. The guy has been as clever and creative a GM as I have seen. He's taken chances, grabbed guys off the scrap heap and made it work. The list is long of once thought of prospects that he has traded that have gone on to do nothing. The one trade I would hold against him is the Koch trade. The Ritchie trade didn't bother me in the slightest because I never liked Kip Wells. Fogg is a guy, at the time I wouldn't have let go, but turns out he was just another dime a dozen guy as well.

maurice
03-21-2006, 02:32 PM
It's hard to argue with a championship trophy. For the most part, I've been a KW apologist (though I disagreed strongly with a few specific moves). I believe that he's improved with experience, but it certainly didn't hurt that the Sox payroll "improved" as well. He's compiled a great front office and coaching staff.

I also have to acknowledge that the composition of the 2005 team was, at least in part, the result of chance. If it were up to KW, Ordonez would be on the roster in place of many 2005 contributors, and Garland would be in Anaheim. The bulk of team leadership in 2005 came from 2 guys who KW initially rejected as clearly unemployable: Ozzie and AJ. Fortunately, he eventually was persuaded to change his mind on both. Finally, he still lashes out periodically. He needs to cut that **** out and act like a mature world champion.

A. Cavatica
03-21-2006, 03:11 PM
I find it hilarious that KW can now do no wrong as a GM, yet before last season he could do no right with many Sox fans. Which is it ?

There's only one yardstick that matters. He's a 10.

34 Inch Stick
03-21-2006, 03:47 PM
The fact that otherwise quite smart people could be so wonderfully mistaken about that move speaks volumes to how well Williams has done as GM.

Include KW in that group. Ozzie would not have even been interviewed for the job if JR had not intervened on Ozzie's behalf. I would argue that Ozzie would not be a manager in any MLB city today without JR's reccomendation.

PicktoCLick72
03-21-2006, 04:02 PM
I bet Kenny Williams could turn the Hawks into a playoff team. I give him a 10 for at least the next 3 years. A GM does not need to be perfect but he has been over the past year.

gbergman
03-21-2006, 07:08 PM
He (KW) sucks. Why did it take him 5 years to get us a World Series?


(Is this the correct teal?)
:tealtutor:

DickAllen72
03-21-2006, 07:40 PM
KW gets a 10.

Bobbo35
03-21-2006, 08:05 PM
Plain and simple KW has worked his butt off for this organization. I give him a 10!!