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Banix12
03-19-2006, 05:00 PM
In the ongoing series of 25th man arguments...

I was thinking today about the whole Borchard vs. Gload situation and I thought I would try and make a case for Gload since it seems most of us are resigned to the idea that an extra 1b will be useless. If I'm completely off base here please tell me.

The case for Gload is predicated on three facts.
1. Paul Konerko is the slowest man in baseball.
2. Jim Thome will be the DH for a majority of the games.
3. The other backup 1b on the roster have very limited experience at the position.

Basically my reason to carry Gload is primarily defensive. In close games, late in the game, if Konerko gets a double or something Ozzie would probably like to pinch run for him. In this situation you probably can't bring in Thome to play the field during most games because you risk losing the DH if the game goes into extra innings. In this situation, which actually happens quite a bit. It would be good to have a guy who is good with the glove at 1b and has extensive experience.

You could bring in one of the other guys on the team with experience at 1b but as you can see below, their experience is extremely limited.

Mackowiak MLB career at 1b - 5 games / 17 1/3 innings
Ozuna MLB career at 1b - 2 games / 3 innings
Dye MLB career at 1b - 1 game / 9 innings
Widger MLB career at 1b - 4 games / 11 innings

In a close game in the late innings do you really want one of these guys at 1st or would you rather have Gload?

IlliniSox4Life
03-19-2006, 05:19 PM
Well, I know Konerko is slow, but Gload isn't Scotty Pods either. It seems like very little gain to keep Gload on the roster if it's for just that reason. Ozuna would be much fastert than Gload, and while I don't know how good first baseman, you could always put him in right and move Dye to first. Granted, I know Dye isn't very familiar there either, but he wasn't bad from what I recall.

voodoochile
03-19-2006, 05:24 PM
Choosing a 25th man based on his defensive ability at a position where defense is the LAST reason you select a player, seems silly...

DeadMoney
03-19-2006, 05:29 PM
I've been in Tucson the past few days and Thome was taking ground balls at first base on both Friday and Saturday. I know that if Konerko were to get hurt (of course, hopefully he doesn't) mid-game, then we'd have to settle for Mackowiak or Dye (or someone else) at 1B, but in the games following an injury I'd expect Thome to be there. Also, because of seeing Thome taking his reps at 1B, I somewhat expect Gload to be the odd man out.

Erik The Red
03-19-2006, 05:45 PM
I'd wait to see if he'll be on the DL after sliding into the wall today, before I start championing a cause to bring him with the big club in April.

Banix12
03-19-2006, 05:50 PM
Choosing a 25th man based on his defensive ability at a position where defense is the LAST reason you select a player, seems silly...

Well I basically concentrated on his defense for this argument because I think we all know about his bat. He can hit and would be a decent pinch hitter, that's another reason some people have used for the idea of carrying him on the roster

What I was trying to get across is that there might actually be a need for a backup 1b. It's same reasoning that the Angels have used in the past to carry a third catcher. They wanted the luxury of being able to pinch run for Bengie Molina. If Ozzie wants the luxury of pinch running for Konerko, which he likes doing, it's something he might consider.

Well, I know Konerko is slow, but Gload isn't Scotty Pods either. It seems like very little gain to keep Gload on the roster if it's for just that reason. Ozuna would be much fastert than Gload, and while I don't know how good first baseman, you could always put him in right and move Dye to first. Granted, I know Dye isn't very familiar there either, but he wasn't bad from what I recall.

I'm not saying the other 4 guys are necessarily bad 1b, but certainly it is less than ideal to have a guy who has only played the position for the equivilent of 1 or 2 games in their career out there in a close and late situation.

And it really isn't the only reason but it's a reason why it might be good to carry an extra 1b.

Banix12
03-19-2006, 05:54 PM
I'd wait to see if he'll be on the DL after sliding into the wall today, before I start championing a cause to bring him with the big club in April.

I've been out most of this afternoon and wasn't watching the game. How bad was the spill?

i wouldn't say I'm championing him. I'm basically playing devils advocate here. This is just a reason that I haven't seen yet for bringing along a player to backup 1b.

voodoochile
03-19-2006, 05:55 PM
Well I basically concentrated on his defense for this argument because I think we all know about his bat. He can hit and would be a decent pinch hitter, that's another reason some people have used for the idea of carrying him on the roster

What I was trying to get across is that there might actually be a need for a backup 1b. It's same reasoning that the Angels have used in the past to carry a third catcher. They wanted the luxury of being able to pinch run for Bengie Molina. If Ozzie wants the luxury of pinch running for Konerko, which he likes doing, it's something he might consider.



I'm not saying the other 4 guys are necessarily bad 1b, but certainly it is less than ideal to have a guy who has only played the position for the equivilent of 1 or 2 games in their career out there in a close and late situation.

And it really isn't the only reason but it's a reason why it might be good to carry an extra 1b.

Using the Angels' third catcher as a justification seems rather odd around these parts.:bandance::D::cool:

voodoochile
03-19-2006, 05:57 PM
I'd wait to see if he'll be on the DL after sliding into the wall today, before I start championing a cause to bring him with the big club in April.

It might actually solve a problem for the Sox if he is injured to start the season. That way they can start the season with Borchard on the roster and take their time working out a trade or seeing if Joe can actually perform in the bigs for a month.

I'm not rooting for an injury, merely pointing out that neither of those guys have options right now, so neither has ANY trade value.

Erik The Red
03-19-2006, 05:58 PM
Well, it's a chain-link fence, with vertical beams every few feet, and he slid pretty hard, hitting his knee RIGHT on one of the beams. He walked away under his own power, and they haven't mentioned anything yet on his condition.

Banix12
03-19-2006, 05:59 PM
Well, it's a chain-link fence, with vertical beams every few feet, and he slid pretty hard, hitting his knee RIGHT on one of the beams. He walked away under his own power, and they haven't mentioned anything yet on his condition.

Alright, thanks for the info.

JohnBasedowYoda
03-19-2006, 07:00 PM
I've been out most of this afternoon and wasn't watching the game. How bad was the spill?

i wouldn't say I'm championing him. I'm basically playing devils advocate here. This is just a reason that I haven't seen yet for bringing along a player to backup 1b.


He slid into the wall in foul territory at full speed. I think he either tweeked his right ankle or right knee. He looked in pain too, though he limped off the field.

Daver
03-19-2006, 07:09 PM
Carrying three catchers makes sense from a defensive standpoint, catcher is the most important defensive position on the field, carrying an extra first baseman, the least important defensive position, makes no sense.


But then again, what the hell do I know?

soxinem1
03-19-2006, 07:41 PM
I like Gload and remember how well he played in 2004, but I don't know why we have to assume Thome cannot play first up to three times a week if need be. He's never been a full-time DH and we don't even know how he will perform as a full-time DH. So carrying three 1B does not make a whole lot of sense.

Whether they carry Gload or Borchard it does not matter, as they have one of the best benches in MLB, esp. with Cintron joining them.

I'm really more concerned with those last two, possibly three BP spots than who the extra OF-1B is.

KRS1
03-19-2006, 11:19 PM
Gload injury update, per rotoworld..................

Ross Gload is day-to-day after jamming his left knee into the wall on a sliding catch on Sunday.
"It was more a cut than anything," Gload said. "I rammed it, but I'm fine." Mar. 19 - 10:54 pm et

Jjav829
03-19-2006, 11:26 PM
Gload injury update, per rotoworld..................

Ross Gload is day-to-day after jamming his left knee into the wall on a sliding catch on Sunday.
"It was more a cut than anything," Gload said. "I rammed it, but I'm fine." Mar. 19 - 10:54 pm et

Translation: "My kneecap is busted and I may never walk normal again, but Borchard is going to beat me out if I'm not playing again by tomorrow."

KRS1
03-19-2006, 11:31 PM
Translation: "My kneecap is busted and I may never walk normal again, but Borchard is going to beat me out if I'm not playing again by tomorrow."

Yeah, I find it hard to believe he just received a cut from that collision. That would be amazing, and while it could be true, I have a feeling he's toughing it out. In any case I'm sure Herm will get the full details on it with both an X-ray and MRI so Ozzie can pass down his judgment.

Trav
03-20-2006, 01:33 AM
Isn't this the third time he was "slow to get up" this spring?

SBSoxFan
03-20-2006, 09:58 AM
From the tone of this thread, is it possible people are actually beginning to champion Borchard to make the team? :o:

What's next?

http://cool.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/hell_freezing_over.jpg

Frater Perdurabo
03-20-2006, 10:11 AM
Can any of the people in the know, like Daver, Randar or other baseball experts, offer their opinions on whether or not Borchard could learn to play first base if necessary?

Moving Thome to first base from DH late in a game wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, either. The Sox have a deep enough bench to allow Ozzie the option to use the double switch to prevent the Sox pitcher from having to come to bat during the few occasions when he decides to pinch-run for Konerko.

The bottom line is that I agree with Daver. There is no reason to make the 25th man a career AAAA first baseman simply because he can play first base.

NorthSideSox72
03-20-2006, 10:23 AM
Gload is definitely the better option than Borch, but not because he can play good D at 1B. That reason is well down the list.

The reasons you keep Gload are that he has proven he can hit MLB pitching, and pretty darn well (.300+ in fact), and that Borch has more trade value because of his power and name recognition. Also, as pinch-hitting or pinch-running will be major duties for this player, you really want someone who makes contact and gets on base - which Borch does not do. Borch strikes out a TON. And Gload is certainly faster than Borch, just to add to things.

And one other thing. Going into ST, people were concerned about Gload's defensive play in the OF, assuming Borch was so much better. Well... he isn't. Borch has a better arm, but he has flubbed a number of fly balls out there in ST. Gload, on the other hand, made a spectacular catch running into the wall yesterday, and has looked pretty decent out there.

Take all that into consideration, plus the small bonus that he plays 1B as well, and suddenly there are only two reasons to keep Borch - his arm and his power bat. Those simply don't match up to all the positives for Gload.

Ergo, Gload stays. Borch gets traded, with a prospect, for a middle reliever.

salty99
03-20-2006, 12:02 PM
Case closed. Borchard has been traded.