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Lip Man 1
03-14-2006, 09:26 PM
Interesting quote from Ozzie to Scott Merkin of White Sox.com:

"We are looking for relievers and right now, they all [stink]. The opportunity is there and nobody wants to grab it."

:D:

Pick up the phone Kenny.....

Lip

Trav
03-14-2006, 09:31 PM
Interesting quote from Ozzie to Scott Merkin of White Sox.com:

"We are looking for relievers and right now, they all [stink]. The opportunity is there and nobody wants to grab it."

:D:

Pick up the phone Kenny.....

Lip

KW thinks that it is too early to trade for anyone. I agree.

Lip Man 1
03-14-2006, 09:36 PM
Obviously Ozzie doesn't...

:D:

And as stated in another post, striking early may prove to cost less in prospects. If another team or two has an injury and is looking for help, the price of pitching goes way, way up...

Lip

Trav
03-14-2006, 09:48 PM
Who would be available as of right now? Clearly, not many on the Sox are untouchable but I would think that the price is pretty steap for a quality arm out of the pen as is.

santo=dorf
03-14-2006, 09:55 PM
Obviously Ozzie doesn't...

:D:

And as stated in another post, striking early may prove to cost less in prospects. If another team or two has an injury and is looking for help, the price of pitching goes way, way up...

Lip
Lip, which is more likely to happen?
A team has a couple of injuries on their team (assuming they aren't pitchers) this week
Or journeyman veterans don't make the team, and refuse their minor league assignments becoming free agents AND other pitchers that are out of options don't make the team and hit the waiver wire 2 weeks from now?

I read that the Sox are going to give Nomo some playing time. Are you happy yet?

Lip Man 1
03-14-2006, 10:45 PM
Dorf:

Chill out dude.

By the way there's a story on the Tribune web site tonight where a scout who may have a relief pitcher available is quoted as saying that '29 teams all want the same thing...'

Which helps prove my point about striking now before things become even more chotic. The 'issue' with trying to find someone at the last minute two weeks from now (although that certainly remains a possibility) is that you are asking a guy to step in cold without anyone on the staff having seen him and with little or no acclimation time to the team, the philosophy etc.

As far as me being happy I just wish Kenny, who did a magnificent job filling practically every hole on the club, had been able to settle for more then 'has been's,' 'never-was's' and minor leaguers to fill out middle relief. That's an important part of the game today and it's unrealistic to expect the starters to go 7 or 8 innings night after night after night. A number of posters were concerned about this same issue on these boards three months ago.

Lip

SoxFan76
03-15-2006, 01:28 AM
I looove Lip's quotes of the day.

And I looove Ozzie. He tells it like it is. Those guys have been absolutely brutal. Show some balls, you're fighting for a spot on a major league roster. MAN UP!

Soxfanspcu11
03-15-2006, 05:09 AM
Interesting quote from Ozzie to Scott Merkin of White Sox.com:

"We are looking for relievers and right now, they all [stink]. The opportunity is there and nobody wants to grab it."

:D:

Pick up the phone Kenny.....

Lip


That's all Ozzie said?? That "they stink"?? I'm thinking that something may have been left out.

It doesn't sound like an authentic Ozzie quote without the mandatory, "they ****ing stink!!":D:

Hawkeroo1980
03-15-2006, 06:19 AM
Obviously Ozzie doesn't...

:D:

And as stated in another post, striking early may prove to cost less in prospects. If another team or two has an injury and is looking for help, the price of pitching goes way, way up...

Lip

i agree but what team is willing to give up a reliever when they have no reason to yet (i.e. a losing season)?

SOXSINCE'70
03-15-2006, 06:22 AM
Yes,I know it's early,but there's no denying that thus far,
the bullpen candidates have looked HORRENDOUS!!:angry:

Get it out of your systems now,guys.
Come April 2nd,The games count.

The Critic
03-15-2006, 07:18 AM
That's all Ozzie said?? That "they stink"?? I'm thinking that something may have been left out.

It doesn't sound like an authentic Ozzie quote without the mandatory, "they ****ing stink!!":D:

......he didn't say "stink".....when it's in brackets like that, it's cleaned up for a "family" publication.......:wink: :D:

White Sox Randy
03-15-2006, 08:27 AM
You are right, Lip. I have been posting on this site for weeks about these lame signings of all these leftys that once hit the side of a barn.

And, I keep hearing back from others about how this guy has potential and he just needs a chance and he could be the next Jenks....blah blah blah - NO THEY CAN'T BE - THEY SUCK - THAT'S WHY THEY WERE OUT THERE AND WE GOT THEM FOR NOTHING !

Let's get some Major League pitching for our bullpen !

Frater Perdurabo
03-15-2006, 08:42 AM
Let's just remember that in the high, thin air of Arizona, breaking balls don't break as well as they will at the Cell and batted balls travel farther.

While I trust Ozzie's assessment, let's all remember the big picture that the two bullpen spots the Sox need to fill are for the last two guys Ozzie would want to use anyway. It's not like the Sox are in desperate need of a closer or RH or LH 7th & 8th inning guys.

I agree that middle relief is important, but the Sox have McCarthy, who as a former and future starter, has the ability and more importantly the stuff to pitch 2, 3 or even 4 innings to close out a game if necessary.

In Jenks, Cotts and Politte, the Sox have the three most important bullpen spots filled. Having McCarthy is like having a younger, healthier version of El Duque ready to go in the pen. Having McCarthy is like having TWO middle relievers.

So, let's all take a deep breath and relax. KW has proven his ability to deliver the parts necessary to bring home the ultimate hardware. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

PorkChopExpress
03-15-2006, 09:22 AM
Kenny's probably waiting to see how Urbina's legal battles pan out. Seriously, though, if that guy gets off, it won't be long before he's in a White Sox uniform.

salty99
03-15-2006, 09:58 AM
Hideo Nomo sightings are just around the corner.

Lip Man 1
03-15-2006, 10:00 AM
This and that:

Regarding McCarthy. I think folks are assuming that the transition from starter to relief pitcher is going to be 'easy' for him. It may turn out to be, but I wouldn't automatically assume this.

The point about Arizona is certainly valid, however, other teams train in Arizona and they don't seem to be putting up the same numbers as the Sox staff once you get past the five starters. It looks like a lot of these guys are simply short on talent and overmatched.

Oh by the way, I haven't been following the farce very much but isn't Venezuela eliminated from the WBC now? That would mean Garcia should be back in a few days.

Regarding Hermanson's status, the Sox may be needing three bullpen guys, not two. The Sox still haven't decided if they'll take six or seven bullpen guys. If he can't go you could be looking to find three guys to go along with Jenks, McCarthy, Cotts and Politte.

Finally why would a team give up a pitcher now? Because there are at least six teams or so that have no chance to win anything this year. They know it and more importantly their fans know it. It would be easier and create less flak right now to take two prospects for a relief pitcher. Cintron for example was a salary dump in March (Arizona officials admitted as much, seeing he makes 1.6 million) and I didn't see D'back fans storming the gates. I'm sure others may feel the same way.

Nomo's a possibility but just like McCarthy he's never pitched out of the bullpen before. It is a different mindset and a different set of circumstances.

If he's innocent (and there seems to be some question on this) I'd LOVE to see Urbina in a Sox uniform but don't expect a speedy trial in this. He is a very, very long shot at best.

I do think Dorf's comment about teams dropping guys in two weeks is valid (although not my preferred method for previously stated reasons...) so the Sox may wind up going there, I'd prefer they take a chance on someone better and not screw around. There's to much at stake this season.

We'll see.

Lip

santo=dorf
03-15-2006, 06:02 PM
Regarding Hermanson's status, the Sox may be needing three bullpen guys, not two. The Sox still haven't decided if they'll take six or seven bullpen guys. If he can't go you could be looking to find three guys to go along with Jenks, McCarthy, Cotts and Politte.

Finally why would a team give up a pitcher now? Because there are at least six teams or so that have no chance to win anything this year. They know it and more importantly their fans know it. It would be easier and create less flak right now to take two prospects for a relief pitcher. Cintron for example was a salary dump in March (Arizona officials admitted as much, seeing he makes 1.6 million) and I didn't see D'back fans storming the gates. I'm sure others may feel the same way.
Lip
Most likely the Sox will break camp with 11 pitchers, meaning they need two of the seven candidates to step up. A trade remains possible, though a scout for one team who may have a reliever for sale said, "Twenty-nine other teams want the same thing."

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-060314sox,1,5623731.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines

Lip Man 1
03-15-2006, 06:21 PM
From Dave Van Dyke's story in the Chicago Tribune:

"But with a little more than two weeks left in spring training, the Sox's pitching staff is strong at the start and solid at the end—and completely muddled in the middle. And that's being kind to the seven pitchers trying to grab the final two or three spots."

Lip

santo=dorf
03-15-2006, 06:24 PM
If the Sox go with 12 pitchers, Borchard and Gload are playing for nothing. I have seen much more evidence pointing to the Sox carrying 11 pitchers

Lip Man 1
03-15-2006, 06:25 PM
Borchard and Gload may be playing for a spot in a package deal for relief help. It's called 'showcasing..'

Lip

A. Cavatica
03-15-2006, 06:42 PM
Plan A was obviously to gamble on finding a productive arm on the scrap heap, as the Sox have done many times in the past. If you try out enough Jeff Judens and Robert Persons and Jose Paniaguas, you'll occasionally find a Loaiza.

The problem with this year's crop is that Nomo is the only candidate who was even worth a spring training invitation. Tim Redding was obviously not the answer. The Bentzes and Almanzas and Tuckers make me long for Mike Porzio.

Plan B was for someone to make a great leap forward from the minors. But none of these guys are ready. I am surprised Munoz was sent down so early; he probably deserved a longer look, but Ozzie doesn't want him around.

Plan C will be to make a trade, don't worry. The Sox have people to deal and needs to fill. It will happen.

SOecks
03-15-2006, 07:33 PM
Ah, a Mike Porzio reference. That was great a few years ago when he got his first major league victory. Didn't they get him with a bunch of pies on air after the game?

Ol' No. 2
03-15-2006, 07:55 PM
How many trades do you see happening in the middle of spring training? Almost never.

Chill out. The Sox have three solid, experienced relievers: Cotts, Jenks and Politte. McCarthy will be fine. How many teams have more than four solid relievers? Reynoso is actually pitching pretty well - certainly better than his competition. They need another arm, but a back-of-the-bullpen arm isn't that hard to come by the last week in spring training. But not this early.

Lip Man 1
03-15-2006, 11:57 PM
Jenks is 'experienced?'

:?:

I guess he is if you call 3 months worth of big league action 'experienced.'

Not knocking him or saying he won't do the job but my definition of 'experienced' at the major league level is more like three years.

Lip

IlliniSox4Life
03-16-2006, 01:23 AM
You are right, Lip. I have been posting on this site for weeks about these lame signings of all these leftys that once hit the side of a barn.

And, I keep hearing back from others about how this guy has potential and he just needs a chance and he could be the next Jenks....blah blah blah - NO THEY CAN'T BE - THEY SUCK - THAT'S WHY THEY WERE OUT THERE AND WE GOT THEM FOR NOTHING !

Let's get some Major League pitching for our bullpen !
We got Jenks for nothing. What's your point? Better yet, why aren't you banned yet?

It seems like every time something is posted you were on here weeks or months ago posting about it. I'm really surprised you haven't become a big league scout yet. I hear the Royals are looking for some good people. Maybe you should give them a call. Tell them IlliniSox4Life recommends you. They know me.

ohiosoxfan12
03-16-2006, 02:10 PM
Interesting quote from Ozzie to Scott Merkin of White Sox.com:

"We are looking for relievers and right now, they all [stink]. The opportunity is there and nobody wants to grab it."

:D:

Pick up the phone Kenny.....

Lip


I don't see how he thinks they are that bad. I am convinced that they are good. The loss of Marte and Takatsu isn't going to kill them, esp. with the coming of McCarthy. I really think they have some of the best set-up men in the game, if Jenks returns to last years form, they will be unstoppable. I don't like how Ozzie keeps bashing his own players though. If we need to could trade to get one who and where are they going to come from? Regardless, i think that they are fine and Ozzie needs to chill out.

SOecks
03-16-2006, 02:26 PM
I don't see how he thinks they are that bad. I am convinced that they are good. The loss of Marte and Takatsu isn't going to kill them, esp. with the coming of McCarthy. I really think they have some of the best set-up men in the game, if Jenks returns to last years form, they will be unstoppable. I don't like how Ozzie keeps bashing his own players though. If we need to could trade to get one who and where are they going to come from? Regardless, i think that they are fine and Ozzie needs to chill out.

Wait, Takatsu??? Did you mean Viz?

NoNeckEra
03-16-2006, 02:48 PM
All we heard last year was how bad Viz and Marte were last year, and KW managed to unload them. How could anybody be worse than they were during most of their outings?
If KW needs to make a deal at the end of ST he'll deal Gload and/or Borch and be done with it.
And what's with all the excitement about Logan? He's pitched a grand total of 4+ innings in spring training games.

Lip Man 1
03-16-2006, 05:26 PM
Ohiosox:

Maybe it has a little something to do with ERA's in four figures. (i.e. like 12.88, 10.65, 27.34...)

Lip

Lip Man 1
03-17-2006, 10:20 PM
Ozzie had another 'follow-up' comment on his relief pitchers after today's game with Texas. The 3rd time this week the Sox failed to hold a 9th inning lead:

From White Sox.com:

"If Guillen's criticism of his relievers on the proverbial roster bubble, the ones not exactly doing a convincing job of earning a spot, sounds like a familiar refrain, it's only because he challenged them less than a week ago. Agustin Montero was the latest to struggle Friday, failing to protect an 8-7 lead in the ninth, by allowing two earned runs on three hits.

Even Armando Almanza and Tim Redding, who combined for three scoreless innings, were unable to earn Guillen's total approval.

"They throw pretty good, but I need more consistency," Guillen said. "They go out and pitch pretty good one day and then two days later, they stunk. I want more consistency from them to make this thing interesting."

Guillen pointed to the emergence of Boone Logan, who was pitching for Great Falls in the Advanced Rookie Pioneer League last season, as an issue of embarrassment for the veterans who have not emerged."

We'll see... oh Reynoso was shipped out today.

Lip