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peeonwrigley
03-14-2006, 05:55 PM
Offman just reported Prior experienced new shoulder issues today. "Stiffness." Cubs are sending him to LA to be examined by a Dr. Yokum(sp?). Hendry claims its a completely new injury.

Can't even make this stuff up anymore.

samram
03-14-2006, 05:57 PM
Well, it's just soreness so far, but if you leave spring training to go to see a specialist, it's either a lot of soreness or it's been a problem for a while and we haven't heard about it.

I hope it's not a labrum or something like that. This guy has so much potential- I don't want him to miss more and more time with injury.

Dan Mega
03-14-2006, 06:04 PM
Here is to hoping he finds his way onto another team and succeeds, and also staying healthy.

Wouldn't Mark Prior look nice as a swingman in the Sox bullpen right now?

dickallen15
03-14-2006, 06:23 PM
Mark Prior left Cubs camp today to go have his ailing shoulder examined in LA. Apparently the Cubs were lying again when they said nothing was wrong with him.

TomBradley72
03-14-2006, 06:29 PM
Offman just reported Prior experienced new shoulder issues today. "Stiffness." Cubs are sending him to LA to be examined by a Dr. Yokum(sp?). Hendry claims its a completely new injury.

Can't even make this stuff up anymore.

Prior has talked a ton about all of the media attention on this, etc....but the one thing he has NEVER said is: "I'm 100% healthy....there's nothing to it".

Looks to me like Baseball Prospectus had it right a few weeks ago.

DrCrawdad
03-14-2006, 06:32 PM
Well, it's just soreness so far, but if you leave spring training to go to see a specialist, it's either a lot of soreness or it's been a problem for a while and we haven't heard about it.
On Feb. 20 Will Carroll of BP reported that Prior was experiencing shoulder troubles. The Cubs and Mark Prior vehemently denied it. Some Cub fans were saying it was "...unattributed, unsubstantiated rumor..." and that in a 10 days Prior would be making his first Cactus League start. "Don't worry, be happy..."

Since then Prior has not pitched in a single ST game nor has he been observed throwing by the media or fans. Alas the Cubs and Prior said that this was nothing unusual, nothing to be alarmed about.

Now Prior's off to see Dr. Yokum for shoulder troubles. The Cubs say that this a new issue. It certainly smells fishy to me.

I think BP had it right on 2/20. IMHO the Cubs were trying to right Prior behind curtains but since he's still experiencing shoulder pain they're taking him to a specialist.

IF I were a baseball insider reporter inside of loving softballs tossed to Hendry & Prior I'd ask when exactly did Prior start experiencing shoulder trouble and if Prior had been examined BEFORE going to see Yokum.

PAPChiSox729
03-14-2006, 06:34 PM
As much as I hate to admit it, I am starting to feel sorry for this guy.

Chisox003
03-14-2006, 06:37 PM
As much as I hate to admit it, I am starting to feel sorry for this guy.
I feel bad for both him and Carrie

They've never done anything wrong except get drafted by the wrong team

It's a shame, from a baseball fan's perspective. We'll never get to see these guys peak, and both could've been something special, especially Prior.

TheDarkGundam
03-14-2006, 06:39 PM
NO! I actually thought this would be the Cubbies year.
Oh, well. I'm not too worried. I just love those Cubbies so much!

SouthSide_HitMen
03-14-2006, 06:43 PM
I think BP had it right on 2/20. IMHO the Cubs were trying to right Prior behind curtains but since he's still experiencing shoulder pain they're taking him to a specialist.

IF I were a baseball insider reporter inside of loving softballs tossed to Hendry & Prior I'd ask when exactly did Prior start experiencing shoulder trouble and if Prior had been examined BEFORE going to see Yokum.

Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies.

February 20 - Prior has problems throwing at spring training.

February 21 - Cubs, Prior deny problems - single tickets go on sale on Friday.

February 24 - Cubs set MLB and Club single day ticket sold record (just under 600,000 sold). Just over 300,000 remain available for sale on February 25 for the remainder of the season (or and average of 3,000 and change per game).

March 13 - Cubs announce to sheep Prior is in fact hurt and is seeing a specialist and may be gone for months if not the season. Cubs also point out ticket sales are final and no refunds will be offered.

MarySwiss
03-14-2006, 06:44 PM
I feel bad for both him and Carrie

They've never done anything wrong except get drafted by the wrong team

It's a shame, from a baseball fan's perspective. We'll never get to see these guys peak, and both could've been something special, especially Prior.

Couldn't agree more. Talk about potential wasted. But I just let my Cub fan spouse have an earful. OVER and OVER, this morally bankrupt organization insists that all is well, when it obviously isn't.

cheeses_h_rice
03-14-2006, 07:12 PM
http://www.wegotcards.com/cards/fun/news/shame.GIF

chisoxmike
03-14-2006, 07:17 PM
As much as I hate to admit it, I am starting to feel sorry for this guy.

I agree. Prior is a extremly talented pitcher and I can't believe this keeps happening to him. There is so much talent being wasted here. I, personally dont like Prior or Wood, but I dont wish injury on any player.

Vernam
03-14-2006, 07:19 PM
By yesterday, even Paul Sullivan of the Trib smelled a rat. Here's his lede from this morning:

"One day after throwing a simulated game, Mark Prior held a simulated news briefing Monday at HoHoKam Park (http://tinyurl.com/hnq3j)."

I feel sorry for Prior, but not at all for that organization. My sense of the Trib sports section's post-World Series coverage is that they're fed up with the conflict of interest and the perception that they're a PR organ of the Cubs. I wouldn't be surprised if their wrath turns on the team now because of the Prior deception. Of course, I also wouldn't be surprised to see "Prior Right On-Track for Opening Day" as their headline tomorrow. :cool:

Vernam

beckett21
03-14-2006, 07:28 PM
Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies.

February 20 - Prior has problems throwing at spring training.

February 21 - Cubs, Prior deny problems - single tickets go on sale on Friday.

February 24 - Cubs set MLB and Club single day ticket sold record (just under 600,000 sold). Just over 300,000 remain available for sale on February 25 for the remainder of the season (or and average of 3,000 and change per game).

March 13 - Cubs announce to sheep Prior is in fact hurt and is seeing a specialist and may be gone for months if not the season. Cubs also point out ticket sales are final and no refunds will be offered.

I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, but this little time-line is curiously interesting.

I also echo the sentiments of concern for Prior and Wood. I really wish that they could stay healthy, for their own sakes. :(:

JohnBasedowYoda
03-14-2006, 07:41 PM
As much as I hate to admit it, I am starting to feel sorry for this guy.

I don't feel bad. It's obvious his body wasn't meant for baseball. Time to move on

MarySwiss
03-14-2006, 08:10 PM
Just talked to my brother in Illinois, and he said he heard that Derrek Lee hurt himself in today's WBC game and will be joining Prior at that specialist. Anybody else heard this?

ilsox7
03-14-2006, 08:10 PM
Just talked to my brother in Illinois, and he said he heard that Derrek Lee hurt himself in today's WBC game and will be joining Prior at that specialist. Anybody else heard this?

Yep. Bum shoulder I think they are saying...hoping it's nothing more than a bruise. But who knows.

SOecks
03-14-2006, 08:33 PM
I don't think the Lee injury is anything major, but from what I heard about Prior it sounds like he could be out for a while. It's just too bad because I'd really like to see what a healthy Prior and Wood could do together for a whole season. I feel really bad for Prior because he's fun to watch when he's on his game. Looks like we won't be seeing that for awhile though.

kevin57
03-14-2006, 08:38 PM
I'll join the choir on two scores:

1. I feel bad for Prior. Great potential. You have to wonder if it's just the breaks of the game, or if he was the recipient of bad coaching/training/rehab.

2. Cub Credibility is Crap. When is that Front Office going to learn to be upfront. I have to think that even Cub fans will have their fill of it eventually, and I know the media hate it when they think you've been pulling their chain.

SOecks
03-14-2006, 09:04 PM
I'll join the choir on two scores:

1. I feel bad for Prior. Great potential. You have to wonder if it's just the breaks of the game, or if he was the recipient of bad coaching/training/rehab.

2. Cub Credibility is Crap. When is that Front Office going to learn to be upfront. I have to think that even Cub fans will have their fill of it eventually, and I know the media hate it when they think you've been pulling their chain..

You're right on on your #2, but I disagree that Cub fans will have their fill of it. Many of them have been talking a big game and complaining about the Front Office for the last couple years, but they still keep coming in droves and buying tickets at a record setting pace. It really is incredible how teflon this whole organization seems to be. Good for them I guess. They get to keep lying and making a mint off of their sheepish fans. What's their motivation to change? None.

roylestillman
03-14-2006, 09:09 PM
Somebody ought to make sure that Herm Schneider is signed to a long term contract with us.

Lip Man 1
03-14-2006, 09:31 PM
It's a shamne that someone as talented as Mark has not been able to realize his potential due to almost constant injuries. Sounds a lot like Jim McMahon.

And it sounds like his soreness is a lot like the shoulder soreness that Posednik is facing.

Lip

samram
03-14-2006, 10:00 PM
On Feb. 20 Will Carroll of BP reported that Prior was experiencing shoulder troubles. The Cubs and Mark Prior vehemently denied it. Some Cub fans were saying it was "...unattributed, unsubstantiated rumor..." and that in a 10 days Prior would be making his first Cactus League start. "Don't worry, be happy..."

Since then Prior has not pitched in a single ST game nor has he been observed throwing by the media or fans. Alas the Cubs and Prior said that this was nothing unusual, nothing to be alarmed about.

Now Prior's off to see Dr. Yokum for shoulder troubles. The Cubs say that this a new issue. It certainly smells fishy to me.

I think BP had it right on 2/20. IMHO the Cubs were trying to right Prior behind curtains but since he's still experiencing shoulder pain they're taking him to a specialist.

IF I were a baseball insider reporter inside of loving softballs tossed to Hendry & Prior I'd ask when exactly did Prior start experiencing shoulder trouble and if Prior had been examined BEFORE going to see Yokum.

Yeah, I remember the Carroll piece. I guess I meant the Cubs hadn't talked about it, which is hardly a surprise, especially given South Side Hitmen's timeline.

DumpJerry
03-14-2006, 10:29 PM
Channel 5 seems to feel he is gone for the season.

Dusty needs to be fired before he injures any more pitchers. He was fired from the Giants for ignoring the Bullpen and he is making the same mistake here. Prior's elbow and should are probably 10-15 years older than the rest of his body. That's too bad, his potential was tremendous.

samram
03-14-2006, 10:36 PM
Channel 5 seems to feel he is gone for the season.

Dusty needs to be fired before he injures any more pitchers. He was fired from the Giants for ignoring the Bullpen and he is making the same mistake here. Prior's elbow and should are probably 10-15 years older than the rest of his body. That's too bad, his potential was tremendous.

Well, obviously I didn't see the Channel 5 news, but that's quite an implication given that he hasn't had the exam yet.

You're right about Dusty. I think he got really lucky, and perhaps spoiled, with Russ Ortiz and Livan Hernandez and felt that all pitchers could throw 600 pitches per outing.

Jjav829
03-14-2006, 10:44 PM
Is the New Prior better than the Old Prior?

What a horrible organization they run. They need to blow everything up and start from scratch.

voodoochile
03-14-2006, 10:45 PM
Is the New Prior better than the Old Prior?

What a horrible organization they run. They need to blow everything up and start from scratch.


Why would they do that? They are making money hand over fist with free pub out the wazzoo and no end in sight...

Trust me the Tribune corporation doesn't want to change a damned thing about the way the flubbies are run...

Trav
03-14-2006, 10:51 PM
Well, obviously I didn't see the Channel 5 news, but that's quite an implication given that he hasn't had the exam yet.

You're right about Dusty. I think he got really lucky, and perhaps spoiled, with Russ Ortiz and Livan Hernandez and felt that all pitchers could throw 600 pitches per outing.

I don't think the pitch counts matter as much as people think. Pitchers from other eras threw a lot more than the ones today and most held up better.

However, there must be a connection between Baker and his pitchers going down. Perhaps it is the way he trains them. For instance, not enough throwing during ST and then dumping a heavy workload onto them during the season. I have no idea but I do know that Guillen uses his guys a ton and for the most part they held up over the last two seasons. Other guys do the same.

Jjav829
03-14-2006, 10:55 PM
Why would they do that? They are making money hand over fist with free pub out the wazzoo and no end in sight...

Trust me the Tribune corporation doesn't want to change a damned thing about the way the flubbies are run...

I'm not insinuating the Tribune company would consider doing that. Perhaps I should re-phrase my sentence to clarify when I really meant.

In order for the Cubs to become a successful franchise, they would need to blow everything up and start from scratch.

Of course, as you said, they will never do that because they have no reason to change anything.

JB98
03-14-2006, 11:01 PM
Just for grins, I went over to northsidebaseball.com tonight. As you might expect, the sheep are talking about attendance. The argument is whether the Cubs lied about the Prior injury in order to sell more tickets. Alledgedly, the Cubs are free to reveal Prior's true status now that millions of tickets have been safely sold for the upcoming season. They needed to pretend Prior was healthy in order to keep that hype maching rolling.

samram
03-14-2006, 11:14 PM
I don't think the pitch counts matter as much as people think. Pitchers from other eras threw a lot more than the ones today and most held up better.

However, there must be a connection between Baker and his pitchers going down. Perhaps it is the way he trains them. For instance, not enough throwing during ST and then dumping a heavy workload onto them during the season. I have no idea but I do know that Guillen uses his guys a ton and for the most part they held up over the last two seasons. Other guys do the same.

It's not the pitch count per se, but the way pitchers are developed is different than what it was. Furthermore, Dusty doesn't train any pitchers. He barely manages and he has no interest in dealing with developing players. The guys he deals with are mostly finished products and an argument can be made that the way he handles them during the season leads to arm problems.

Soxfanspcu11
03-14-2006, 11:16 PM
Just for grins, I went over to northsidebaseball.com tonight. As you might expect, the sheep are talking about attendance. The argument is whether the Cubs lied about the Prior injury in order to sell more tickets. Alledgedly, the Cubs are free to reveal Prior's true status now that millions of tickets have been safely sold for the upcoming season. They needed to pretend Prior was healthy in order to keep that hype maching rolling.


I wouldn't doubt that at all. However, I will go one step further. Is it possible that the flubs kept Prior's true condition secret to entertain trade offers??

I could certainly see this being a possibility. Imagine how screwed Baltimore would have been if they had pulled the trigger on that Tejada trade!:o:

samram
03-14-2006, 11:28 PM
Here's the Tribune story (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-060314cubsprior,1,403815.story?coll=cs-home-headlines) on it. I can't believe they're still actually suggesting that this off-season upper-respiratory infection set him back. As if he's the only guy in MLB that was sick over the winter.

beckett21
03-14-2006, 11:32 PM
I wouldn't doubt that at all. However, I will go one step further. Is it possible that the flubs kept Prior's true condition secret to entertain trade offers??

I could certainly see this being a possibility. Imagine how screwed Baltimore would have been if they had pulled the trigger on that Tejada trade!:o:

Without knowing what is going on right now behind the curtain of secrecy, if there really is something seriously wrong with Prior he probably would not have passed his physical.

Either way then, the Cubs were screwed: their choice would have been to keep the damaged goods, or trade them and be exposed to the world. Lose-lose situation. At least this way they sold their tickets first.

Soxfanspcu11
03-14-2006, 11:41 PM
Without knowing what is going on right now behind the curtain of secrecy, if there really is something seriously wrong with Prior he probably would not have passed his physical.

Either way then, the Cubs were screwed: their choice would have been to keep the damaged goods, or trade them and be exposed to the world. Lose-lose situation. At least this way they sold their tickets first.


That's a good point, but how much do they actually test for in a physical? I mean, I know that potentially interested teams would likely require an intense physical before they signed off on a trade, but what if it were something that Prior could have kept secret during the physical?

I mean, without knowing much about how MLB physicals are conducted, could it be possible that there would have been some way to "mask" this injury under encouragement from the flubs? I certainly wouldn't put it past them in order to move their "ace" to a team in need of pitching and hidding any problems.

Plus, any interested teams would have the backing of the hard-hitting, objective and informative Chicago Tribune to reveal the truth about any possible injury to Prior.

Jjav829
03-14-2006, 11:41 PM
Here's the Tribune story (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-060314cubsprior,1,403815.story?coll=cs-home-headlines) on it. I can't believe they're still actually suggesting that this off-season upper-respiratory infection set him back. As if he's the only guy in MLB that was sick over the winter.

They'll blame anything other than the true culprits. I bet they find a way to spin this so they can blame the WBC for Prior's injury. :rolleyes:

beckett21
03-14-2006, 11:48 PM
That's a good point, but how much do they actually test for in a physical? I mean, I know that potentially interested teams would likely require an intense physical before they signed off on a trade, but what if it were something that Prior could have kept secret during the physical?

I mean, without knowing much about how MLB physicals are conducted, could it be possible that there would have been some way to "mask" this injury under encouragement from the flubs? I certainly wouldn't put it past them in order to move their "ace" to a team in need of pitching and hidding any problems.

Plus, any interested teams would have the backing of the hard-hitting, objective and informative Chicago Tribune to reveal the truth about any possible injury to Prior.
I don't know all of the ins-and-outs myself. But I would imagine that for a pitcher, they would have an orthopedic specialist check him over, probably do some MRI's, that type of thing. Potentially something could sneak through the physical, but the greater the severity the greater the chance of picking it up I would expect.

Then again, who can forget Sirotka-gate (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/comment/bodley/2001-02-16-bodley.htm)? :redneck

I_Liked_Manuel
03-14-2006, 11:49 PM
I don't think the pitch counts matter as much as people think. Pitchers from other eras threw a lot more than the ones today and most held up better.


i'm not a huge fan of pitch counts either, but it's tough compare wear and tear on pitchers of different eras due to the height of the mound being lowered

Soxfanspcu11
03-14-2006, 11:51 PM
They'll blame anything other than the true culprits. I bet they find a way to spin this so they can blame the WBC for Prior's injury. :rolleyes:

It's the White Sox fault because of their selfish World Series win. You see, because the Sox season lasted so long and Chicago papers were "forced" to report on it, Prior was not given the "proper" exposure on his rehab and thus his motivation to properly heal was impeded. This lead to his inevitable breakdown during spring training.

Tomorrows Cubune headline?

Prior out for Season. Sox success to blame.

cheeses_h_rice
03-15-2006, 12:16 AM
Just for grins, I went over to northsidebaseball.com tonight. As you might expect, the sheep are talking about attendance. The argument is whether the Cubs lied about the Prior injury in order to sell more tickets. Alledgedly, the Cubs are free to reveal Prior's true status now that millions of tickets have been safely sold for the upcoming season. They needed to pretend Prior was healthy in order to keep that hype maching rolling.

What difference would it make? It's been proven that the sheep will pack the Urinal regardless of how terrible the team is:

1999 (67-95) att. 2,813,854
2000 (65-97) att. 2,789,511
2002 (67-95) att. 2,693,096
2005 (79-83) att. 3,099,992

Are the idiots from Ottumwa and Bettendorf going to stop making their annual pilgramages just because Prior's hurt? Or the companies with their luxury box seats?

TDog
03-15-2006, 01:37 AM
Honestly, it's hard to feel sorry for Prior after he set himself up for life with a sweet contract before proving himself as a pitcher.

Thee are hard-luck stories that deserve your sympathy. Prior is not one of them.

TomBradley72
03-15-2006, 07:27 AM
Here's to hoping Hendry and Baker are renewed with long term contracts....I've been telling my Cub fan friends for the last year," As long as those two are in charge....the Cubs aren't winning anything".

havelj
03-15-2006, 07:50 AM
Maybe he's not really injured and all these setbacks is just as simple that Prior is a:

http://www.ocs.cnyric.org/bquilter/images/everyday/images/cat_4.jpg

soxfanatlanta
03-15-2006, 07:58 AM
That's a good point, but how much do they actually test for in a physical? I mean, I know that potentially interested teams would likely require an intense physical before they signed off on a trade, but what if it were something that Prior could have kept secret during the physical?

Considering Prior's history of injuries, it would not suprise me if a team would taks a very hard look at his condition. Getting out of the North side of town would be the best thing for his career; if he ended up with a coach like Leo Mazzone, who has successfully worked with injured pitchers, you would see what he is capable of doing.

Dan Mega
03-15-2006, 08:20 AM
It's the White Sox fault because of their selfish World Series win. You see, because the Sox season lasted so long and Chicago papers were "forced" to report on it, Prior was not given the "proper" exposure on his rehab and thus his motivation to properly heal was impeded. This lead to his inevitable breakdown during spring training.

Tomorrows Cubune headline?

Prior out for Season. Sox success to blame.

No they won't blame it on the Sox. They just divert everyone's attention to the current state of the Sox bullpen and try to fuel the Thomas/KW fight some more.

Oh wait, they did that today.

South Side Irish
03-15-2006, 08:38 AM
It's not the pitch count per se, but the way pitchers are developed is different than what it was. Furthermore, Dusty doesn't train any pitchers. He barely manages and he has no interest in dealing with developing players. The guys he deals with are mostly finished products and an argument can be made that the way he handles them during the season leads to arm problems.

I agree, Sam. Something is done differently in Oakland, where few young pitchers are hurt, but flourish instead. Or St. Louis, which routinely turns broken pitchers into irreplaceable parts on a contender. Or the White Sox, who just ran 4 pitchers out in a WS run with minimal bullpen work.

The Cubs are doing something wrong. Terribly wrong. They've ruined 2 potentially great pitchers, and I don't see Guzman, Hill, Cruz, or anyone else making the waves they were supposed to. And we haven't even mentioned position players!

The Cardinals will gladly rehab Mark Prior into a Cy Young winner by 2010.

Baby Fisk
03-15-2006, 08:52 AM
Then again, who can forget Sirotka-gate (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/comment/bodley/2001-02-16-bodley.htm)? :redneck
Ouch. People still can't mention that name up here without getting dirty glares from Jays diehards.

Too bad about Prior. His legacy is becoming one of "what ifs" and shadowy physical breakdowns that his own team won't own up to. In another organization, this guy might have flourished. He still might, but not at this rate.

palehozenychicty
03-15-2006, 08:58 AM
The Cardinals will gladly rehab Mark Prior into a Cy Young winner by 2010.

no teal is necessary. and it'll be 102 years of no world series!:D:

South Side Irish
03-15-2006, 09:36 AM
no teal is necessary. and it'll be 102 years of no world series!:D:

And what are the odds that the Cubs set attendence records that year? Again, no teal needed.

russ99
03-15-2006, 09:44 AM
It's not the pitch count per se, but the way pitchers are developed is different than what it was. Furthermore, Dusty doesn't train any pitchers. He barely manages and he has no interest in dealing with developing players. The guys he deals with are mostly finished products and an argument can be made that the way he handles them during the season leads to arm problems.

It's the organization. Both Wood and Prior were rushed to the majors and put in a large number of innings in during their rookie year (Wood: 166, Prior: a total of 167 combined AA through MLB) then a full workload the following year. They simply let their young pitchers go too long, too early.

I_Liked_Manuel
03-15-2006, 10:53 AM
It's the organization. Both Wood and Prior were rushed to the majors and put in a large number of innings in during their rookie year (Wood: 166, Prior: a total of 167 combined AA through MLB) then a full workload the following year. They simply let their young pitchers go too long, too early.

i'm not sure that i agree with this. wood's problems would have happened in any organization; the guy just throws too hard and won't listen to a coach. i also don't think that prior's problems have anything to do with the cubs org. either. some guys have the arm to pitch, some don't- case in point: buehrle throws 220 innings in his second season. i doubt that prior's problems have anything to do with his delivery or innings logged, the guy's arm just isn't durable enough to pitch at the major league level.

TomBradley72
03-15-2006, 11:07 AM
i'm not sure that i agree with this. wood's problems would have happened in any organization.....won't listen to a coach.

I think this is something organizations have control over...the Cubs have a history of "uncoachable" players....Sosa, Patterson, Wood....they never seem to "get tough" with a player....can't picture Ozzie/KW not confronting those same players for the good of the organization vs. coddling them.

Flight #24
03-15-2006, 11:10 AM
i'm not sure that i agree with this. wood's problems would have happened in any organization; the guy just throws too hard and won't listen to a coach. i also don't think that prior's problems have anything to do with the cubs org. either. some guys have the arm to pitch, some don't- case in point: buehrle throws 220 innings in his second season. i doubt that prior's problems have anything to do with his delivery or innings logged, the guy's arm just isn't durable enough to pitch at the major league level.

I don't think it's just the innings - it's the intensity/severity of the outings. So Buehrle pitching 220 but never going above 110 pitches would be drastically different from Wood throwing 200 but having a number of times over 125 pitches.

Also, you can argue about his mechanics, etc - but IMO that's the responsibility of the coaching & training staff to ID and fix when he's young, or if it's unfixable, you deal him early in his career or manage his workload so that even with poor mechanics he's on the field more often.

But the crowds wanted Ks, so the Cubs gave it to them (along with fake HRs from Sham-me*).

Lip Man 1
03-15-2006, 11:22 AM
Great column today from Phil Rogers on this. Takes the Cubs and Baker to task and compares it to the Sox:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-060314rogers,1,1678886.column?coll=cs-home-utility

Lip

Hangar18
03-15-2006, 11:43 AM
Too bad about Prior. His legacy is becoming one of "what ifs" and shadowy physical breakdowns that his own team won't own up to. In another organization, this guy might have flourished. He still might, but not at this rate.


Its The Messiahs own fault .......nobody told him to be a Cub.
He chose his fate

mjharrison72
03-15-2006, 11:45 AM
I think this is something organizations have control over...the Cubs have a history of "uncoachable" players....Sosa, Patterson, Wood....they never seem to "get tough" with a player....can't picture Ozzie/KW not confronting those same players for the good of the organization vs. coddling them.
At some point I think it stops becoming the players' fault and you have to start blaming the coaching staff.

mjharrison72
03-15-2006, 11:46 AM
Great column today from Phil Rogers on this. Takes the Cubs and Baker to task and compares it to the Sox:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-060314rogers,1,1678886.column?coll=cs-home-utility

Lip
For the Cubs in 1998, a big part of the price was the future of Kerry Wood, then the 20-year-old wunderkind. For the Cubs in 2003, the price got even stepper—this time it was the futures of both Wood and Mark Prior.
:o:
My kingdom for a copy editor!

Hangar18
03-15-2006, 11:51 AM
Also, you can argue about his mechanics, etc -

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA. Remember article after article after comment after gratuitious comment on how Mark Prior has "Perfect Mechanics". Remember all those articles? Anyone remember the interviews with high school coaches, with college coaches, with college teammates .....all saying his mechanics were so pure and so perfect, he was the perfect pitcher? How Tom House will be soon known as the legendary pitching coach who taught "perfect mechanics"? Remember Carol Sleazak wrote a couple of pieces talking about his mechanics and how his calves make him the perfect pitcher? Remember the ESPN articles on perfect mechanics and Mark Prior? ? And all those chicago writers who made this guy the most ballyhooed pitcher in Chicago history. Anyone save that cartoon graphic, of a young Messiah .............. detailing the anatomy of his windup?

Oh how the baseball gods are yukking it up now ...................:cool:

Baby Fisk
03-15-2006, 11:54 AM
:o:
My kingdom for a copy editor!
Haha, my hands spontaneously made fists when I saw that. Maybe the editor was seeing a doctor about his shoulder problems.

Flight #24
03-15-2006, 12:16 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA. Remember article after article after comment after gratuitious comment on how Mark Prior has "Perfect Mechanics". Remember all those articles? Anyone remember the interviews with high school coaches, with college coaches, with college teammates .....all saying his mechanics were so pure and so perfect, he was the perfect pitcher? How Tom House will be soon known as the legendary pitching coach who taught "perfect mechanics"? Remember Carol Sleazak wrote a couple of pieces talking about his mechanics and how his calves make him the perfect pitcher? Remember the ESPN articles on perfect mechanics and Mark Prior? ? And all those chicago writers who made this guy the most ballyhooed pitcher in Chicago history. Anyone save that cartoon graphic, of a young Messiah .............. detailing the anatomy of his windup?

Oh how the baseball gods are yukking it up now ...................:cool:

Well, I was referring specifically to Wood, but I guess your comment still holds.

SBSoxFan
03-15-2006, 12:20 PM
Imagine how screwed Baltimore would have been if they had pulled the trigger on that Tejada trade!:o:
And the plan was to then ship Prior from Baltimore to the Sox! :thud:

SBSoxFan
03-15-2006, 12:23 PM
i doubt that prior's problems have anything to do with his delivery or innings logged, the guy's arm just isn't durable enough to pitch at the major league level.
I wonder if he has been favoring his elbow and heel and it caught up with him. I had knee surgery in high school, and when I got back to playing tennis, I favored my knee and hurt my elbow.

voodoochile
03-15-2006, 01:06 PM
Sorry Prior is hurt. It sucks to be him.

Some of the gloating over this is pretty contemptable, IMO.

Rooting, celebrating, cheering, gloating over injuries to players on another team is sick.

palehozenychicty
03-15-2006, 01:21 PM
Sorry Prior is hurt. It sucks to be him.

Some of the gloating over this is pretty contemptable, IMO.

Rooting, celebrating, cheering, gloating over injuries to players on another team is sick.

I concur, as it's low to wish ill of a player. Yes, he's a cub, but he had unlimited abilities. Too bad for him.

DSpivack
03-15-2006, 01:23 PM
Sorry Prior is hurt. It sucks to be him.

Some of the gloating over this is pretty contemptable, IMO.

Rooting, celebrating, cheering, gloating over injuries to players on another team is sick.

I agree completely. I want to see the Cubs struggle with a completely healthy Prior, Wood, Lee, et al.

daveeym
03-15-2006, 01:56 PM
I concur, as it's low to wish ill of a player. Yes, he's a cub, but he had unlimited abilities. Too bad for him. I agree with this statement but disagree with Voodoo. Gloating that the Cubs can't catch a break and that this will hurt their season is fine. Wishing pain and continued ill will on Prior isn't. I only saw 1 or 2 posts in this thread that did that. Most posts wished Prior luck or hoped that he'd get healthy and out of the injury factory on the northside but took pleasure regarding the CUBS plight. I don't think there's anything wrong with that and it is just a part of competitive sports.

miker
03-15-2006, 02:01 PM
68 posts on this already...no Cubsessesion going on here!

Jjav829
03-15-2006, 02:08 PM
68 posts on this already...no Cubsessesion going on here!

Yeah, god forbid we discuss a young pitcher with an extremely bright future who is supposedly healthy despite not throwing and then is reported to be seeing a top pitching specialist because of a sore shoulder. :rolleyes:

Hangar18
03-15-2006, 02:13 PM
Well, I was referring specifically to Wood, but I guess your comment still holds.


By The way ............ despite my harboring contempt for The Messiahs contract negotiating skills, In this case I wasnt laughing at his injury .............but Laughing at the media haahahahahahahahahahahahaha
for every article they put out about how PERFECT HIS MECHANICS WERE
:cool: :cool: :cool: Notice we dont see those articles anymore.

Hangar18
03-15-2006, 02:17 PM
Just for grins, I went over to northsidebaseball.com tonight. As you might expect, the sheep are talking about attendance. The argument is whether the Cubs lied about the Prior injury in order to sell more tickets. Alledgedly, the Cubs are free to reveal Prior's true status now that millions of tickets have been safely sold for the upcoming season. They needed to pretend Prior was healthy in order to keep that hype maching rolling.


Good Catch to ALL OF YOU who are going down this road .....
I cannot help but think this is what was happening the whole time.
Yet the Sheep keep coming .........hundreds .....of ....thousands of them .....
just keep coming .....cheering ...... spending.

Hangar18
03-15-2006, 02:19 PM
Honestly, it's hard to feel sorry for Prior after he set himself up for life with a sweet contract before proving himself as a pitcher.

Thee are hard-luck stories that deserve your sympathy. Prior is not one of them.

Amen. Paybacks a ***** marky ...........

1917
03-15-2006, 03:44 PM
I'm a graduate of USC and I used to worship Prior when he was pitching for the Trojans, so as one SC Alum to another, I hope he is OK, Fight On Mark....Someone put it best, I'd rather see the Cubs struggle at full strength then at half...it's like beating the Colts with Manning on the bench.

chuckn98229
03-15-2006, 03:49 PM
Great column today from Phil Rogers on this. Takes the Cubs and Baker to task and compares it to the Sox:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-060314rogers,1,1678886.column?coll=cs-home-utility

Lip

I guess the memo has come down from the Trib brass saying it is now ok to criticize Baker & Hendry. The first step in their journey to the unemployment line!

itsnotrequired
03-15-2006, 03:52 PM
I guess the memo has come down from the Trib brass saying it is now ok to criticize Baker & Hendry. The first step in their journey to the unemployment line!

Hangar, take note. Once those two go the way of Sammy Sosa, it will be interesting to watch the Tribune's 180.

BlackAndWhite
03-15-2006, 03:55 PM
Hangar,

Still think the Twinks screwed up by taking Mauer over Prior? :D:

Hangar18
03-15-2006, 04:57 PM
Hangar,

Still think the Twinks screwed up by taking Mauer over Prior? :D:

Yes, I still believe so! :smile:

Dan Mega
03-15-2006, 05:38 PM
I guess the memo has come down from the Trib brass saying it is now ok to criticize Baker & Hendry. The first step in their journey to the unemployment line!

This is starting to shape eerily similiar as to how the Cubune blamed the Cubs' woes on Steve Stone and got the sheeps to follow. Only difference is Stone did nothing wrong. I wonder what Hangar's thoughts were on that?

DrCrawdad
03-15-2006, 07:33 PM
Sorry Prior is hurt. It sucks to be him.

Some of the gloating over this is pretty contemptable, IMO.

Rooting, celebrating, cheering, gloating over injuries to players on another team is sick.

I agree. I've mocked the adulation that has been heaped on Prior and Wood but I don't wish injury on Prior, Wood or any other Cubs. IMHO it's just not right to do that, even if it is the hated Cubs.

Ol' No. 2
03-15-2006, 08:09 PM
This just in:
Greg Maddux boarded a plane today for Boston to see noted orthopedic specialist Dr. Hi Riske. "Greg just has a hangnail." said team GM Jim Hendry. "We just don't want to take any chances." Maddux will have X-rays and an MRI on Thursday. "We had him put his arm in a sling, just for precaution. Everything is fine and we're confident he'll be ready for the start of the season, or by May at the latest. Certainly no later than June." said Hendry.

Red Barchetta
03-15-2006, 09:09 PM
Great. Another season of "Prior Watch" in the Tribune....

:angry:

SoxFan76
03-15-2006, 09:12 PM
I feel bad for the guy (Prior). In my "younger" :wink: days I would of said good riddance, he deserves it: he's a Cub. But as you all know, that's pretty ridiculous. He has all the potential in the world and could just as easily become one of the premiere pitchers in the league.

Drafted by the wrong team, what a shame.

lostletters
03-15-2006, 11:29 PM
Actually I feel bad for the young pitchers who pitch for the cubs. I think thier pitching coach and training staff may contribute to many of thier problems. I think these are young players who are having thier careers altered for the worse, and if they were drafted by any other team they would have a great career.

Hell I think if Prior was playing for the Twins, Sox, Indians, or Angels he would not be plagued with these injury problems so much.

This is just a poor organization that cares more about marketing then keeping thier players healthy. Hell the Cubune even markets the injury.

Realist
03-16-2006, 07:11 AM
I wish the moron fans of that sad sack organization known as the Cubs would finally start cutting my favorite baseball team, its fans and me a little bit of slack so I can finally feel sorry for the pathetic state of their affairs.

As it stands, their walking wounded don't have life threatening diseases, their families are all healthy and they're all rolling in the chips. **** 'em and the agents they rode in on.

thepaulbowski
03-16-2006, 07:58 AM
Just for grins, I went over to northsidebaseball.com tonight. As you might expect, the sheep are talking about attendance. The argument is whether the Cubs lied about the Prior injury in order to sell more tickets. Alledgedly, the Cubs are free to reveal Prior's true status now that millions of tickets have been safely sold for the upcoming season. They needed to pretend Prior was healthy in order to keep that hype maching rolling.

The Cubs don't need Prior/Wood/Sammy, etc to sell tickets. All they have to do is hand out wristbands, hype "Summer" and the sheep show up in droves.

ChiSoxGirl
03-16-2006, 11:29 AM
Per the Cubune, it's a strain in his right shoulder.

Prior is unlikely to start the season in the rotation and the Cubs will meet with Yocum on Saturday on how to proceed with Prior's rehab.

Linky (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-060316cubsprior,1,1714537.story?coll=cs-cubs-headlines)

Baby Fisk
03-16-2006, 11:34 AM
Feguson Jenkins adds his own critique to the Prior-Wood saga, wondering why they can't learn more from Greg Maddux. linky (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-060315mitchell,1,4544113.column?coll=cs-cubs-headlines)

SBSoxFan
03-16-2006, 01:11 PM
Feguson Jenkins adds his own critique to the Prior-Wood saga, wondering why they can't learn more from Greg Maddux. linky (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-060315mitchell,1,4544113.column?coll=cs-cubs-headlines)
I read that too, but I'm not sure you can make those comparisons. Prior and Wood are power pitchers, Maddux isn't and never was. Completely different requirements.

White Sox Randy
03-16-2006, 01:47 PM
I NEVER feel sorry for the flubs, their fans, their players or anything flubs !


Hangar, I don't care what anyone says about you. You're ok with me.

TomBradley72
03-16-2006, 02:55 PM
Per the Cubune, it's a strain in his right shoulder.
Linky (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-060316cubsprior,1,1714537.story?coll=cs-cubs-headlines)

How do you strain your shoulder throwing 35 pitches (his limit at the time he was shut down) or doing towel drills?

ChiSoxGirl
03-16-2006, 02:57 PM
How do your strain your shoulder throwing 35 pitches (his limit at the time he was shut down) or doing towel drills?

Don't forget all those simulated games he's thrown! :rolleyes:

DumpJerry
03-16-2006, 03:03 PM
I feel bad for the guy. It's ok to feel bad for a Cub player, they're people, too (unlike their fans who are sheep).

Even if Prior is completely healthy all season playing to his full potential, the Cubs would not not make the post season. Prior would be 25-5 at the end of the season and Cubs' overall record would be 50-112.:cool:

thepaulbowski
03-16-2006, 04:05 PM
How do your strain your shoulder throwing 35 pitches (his limit at the time he was shut down) or doing towel drills?

It's a simulated strain.

Madvora
03-17-2006, 09:16 AM
This line from the Tribune today just shows what the Cubs are all about...

Glendon Rusch will replace Prior in the No. 2 spot in the rotation behind Carlos Zambrano
Rusch as your #2 pitcher! Man! He pitched pretty well for a while and filled in when they needed him, but resorting to him as your #2... wow, they're in trouble.

SOXPHILE
03-17-2006, 09:54 AM
This line from the Tribune today just shows what the Cubs are all about...


Rusch as your #2 pitcher! Man! He pitched pretty well for a while and filled in when they needed him, but resorting to him as your #2... wow, they're in trouble.


Oh, they are in ALOT of trouble. No Carrie, no Messiah for at least the first couple of weeks of the season, and in all likelyhood, for the month of April. They've got a still good, but declining Greg Maddux, who again this year, will hover right around .500, winning less than 14 games. That fat jackass, Zambrano, will lead them in wins, but I'm already telling people he will miss at least 2 starts before the All Star Break due to sorness in his forearm or elbow. (Or both). Couple that with the fact they really don't have an answer at 2nd base, and Jacque Jones is one of your corner outfielders. Yes, there are BIG problems ahead for Cub-Dumb. The Trib is reporting on SOME of it, (Prior, Wood), but they are still trying to paint a much sunnier picture for the blue sheep than what the facts of the cold, ugly truth for them really are. (HEY, LOOK ! JUAN PIERRE ! DID WE MENTION WE HAVE JUAN PIERE ? JUAN PIERRE IS HERE ! AND IF THAT'S NOT ENOUGH, DON'T FORGET, FELIX PIE !!!!!!!!)

I_Liked_Manuel
03-17-2006, 10:32 PM
I feel bad for the guy. It's ok to feel bad for a Cub player,

no, it's not.