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View Full Version : "In house" bullpen Solution


Lillian
03-13-2006, 01:02 PM
With the uncertain condition of Hermanson, the Sox are now looking for two relievers, instead of the one lefty out of the pen, for whom the search is still ongoing. We all know that they have 6 starters. It had been assumed that McCarthy would be a long reliever. What is the feasibility of making him a starter, and converting one of the other starters to a reliever with a bigger role? I understand that there are salary issues, as well as suitability concerns, however the fact remains that the Sox have too many starters, and not enough relievers.
The other possibility would be to trade for help in the pen. This seems like a topic worth discussing, from all angles.

Tekijawa
03-13-2006, 01:09 PM
Lets say you have a Wagon that is pulled by 5 horses, and you have a younger horse in your stable. Your Wagon's wheel falls off and you can't find it... Would you replace that wheel with a horse, just because you have an extra one?

Promote from with in or go out and get another RP... I don't think moving McCarthy into the rotation at the expense of one of the other Studs moving to the Pen is not logical at all?!?!?!

itsnotrequired
03-13-2006, 01:34 PM
Lets say you have a Wagon that is pulled by 5 horses, and you have a younger horse in your stable. Your Wagon's wheel falls off and you can't find it... Would you replace that wheel with a horse, just because you have an extra one?

Wasn't that one of the Budweiser commercials during the Super Bowl?

Tekijawa
03-13-2006, 01:44 PM
Wasn't that one of the Budweiser commercials during the Super Bowl?

If it happened anytime after about an hour before the game started then I won't remember...:gulp: :D:

Baby Fisk
03-13-2006, 01:46 PM
With the uncertain condition of Hermanson, the Sox are now looking for two relievers, instead of the one lefty out of the pen, for whom the search is still ongoing. We all know that they have 6 starters. It had been assumed that McCarthy would be a long reliever. What is the feasibility of making him a starter, and converting one of the other starters to a reliever with a bigger role? I understand that there are salary issues, as well as suitability concerns, however the fact remains that the Sox have too many starters, and not enough relievers.
The other possibility would be to trade for help in the pen. This seems like a topic worth discussing, from all angles.
No. The idea of fixing one hole by creating another hole (albeit filling it with McCarthy) makes my teeth itch. Kenny should go out and get another reliever, and not mess with the rotation. The Sox finally have an elite rotation, let's keep it that way. :thumbsup:

(no offence to Brandon)

Tekk
03-13-2006, 02:08 PM
McCarthy's time will come soon enough. The Sox are in an incredible position by having 6 starters. If anyone struggles or gets injured the Sox have McCarthy to back them up as he did last year from AAA. Whats different this time around is that he'll be facing major league batters on a more consistant basis as opposed to 1 start every 5 days against minor league batters. He's proven to all of his that he can be effective in the majors, he'll just have to wait his turn.

There are some questions on this team, but not nearly as many as we had last year. It's going to be a fun season and I'm looking forward to the even stronger pitching staff.

SOecks
03-13-2006, 02:29 PM
No, there aren't many questions on this team at all but I'd still like KW to continue hedging his bets (like getting Cintron) by picking up one established reliever and possibly trying to pick up another Jenks type guy with a lot of upside. We did get spoiled fast with all the great work KW did in the offseason, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep wanting more.

Iwritecode
03-13-2006, 02:41 PM
With the uncertain condition of Hermanson, the Sox are now looking for two relievers, instead of the one lefty out of the pen, for whom the search is still ongoing. We all know that they have 6 starters. It had been assumed that McCarthy would be a long reliever. What is the feasibility of making him a starter, and converting one of the other starters to a reliever with a bigger role? I understand that there are salary issues, as well as suitability concerns, however the fact remains that the Sox have too many starters, and not enough relievers.
The other possibility would be to trade for help in the pen. This seems like a topic worth discussing, from all angles.

So basically you want to take the "sixth" starter out of the bullpen and put him into the rotation and take one of the 5 regular starters out of the rotation and put him into the bullpen.

What exactly does that solve?

That's basically the same as changing the #3 starter with the #4 starter...

Lillian
03-13-2006, 02:54 PM
So basically you want to take the "sixth" starter out of the bullpen and put him into the rotation and take one of the 5 regular starters out of the rotation and put him into the bullpen.

What exactly does that solve?

That's basically the same as changing the #3 starter with the #4 starter...


My thought was simply that perhaps one of the other starters might make a better reliever than McCarthy. There seems to be some question regarding the youngster's ability to warm up quickly. I assume that you have read the same quotes regarding his preparation requirements.

Iwritecode
03-13-2006, 03:02 PM
My thought was simply that perhaps one of the other starters might make a better reliever than McCarthy. There seems to be some question regarding the youngster's ability to warm up quickly. I assume that you have read the same quotes regarding his preparation requirements.

I think any guy that has been a starter his whole career would have the same problem. I remember it being talked about last year when El Duque went to the BP how long it took him to get ready.

It's almost too late to change anything now. All the guys know what roles they'll be in and have all spring training to prepare. Including McCarthy. It would be unfair to ask them to swap roles now.

ondafarm
03-13-2006, 03:13 PM
My thought was simply that perhaps one of the other starters might make a better reliever than McCarthy. There seems to be some question regarding the youngster's ability to warm up quickly. I assume that you have read the same quotes regarding his preparation requirements.

This is not one of the best ideas I've heard.

McCarthy will get used to being required to warm up quickly. That's that.

Although I hardly think he'll need to get too used to it.

Lillian
03-13-2006, 03:29 PM
Since noone seems to regard any kind of an internal switch as feasible, what about the other part of my original question, that is a trade? I've been to all of the ST home games, and I just don't see anyone in camp who might qualify as Hermanson's replacement.

Frater Perdurabo
03-13-2006, 04:23 PM
Keep McCarthy in the pen. Even though he may be called a "long reliever," this rotation of Clydesdales shouldn't often need "long relief" because 90% of the time they will pitch into the six or seventh inning. Consequently, McCarthy can be used to finish out a game if needed, possibly pitching two, three or even four innings on occasion. In any case, barring an epidemic of injuries or slumps among the five starters, expect that the Sox bullpen will combine to pitch fewer innings during the regular season than most other teams, just as they did in 2005. Vazquez is all but guaranteed to throw many more innings than El Duque did last year.

This doesn't take away the need for the second lefty and someone else to step up in place of Hermanson, though. Still, it is better for the Sox to have to find a middle reliever than to have to find a starter. Bullpen RHPs are a dime a dozen. Quality starters are like gold.

ondafarm
03-13-2006, 04:27 PM
Since noone seems to regard any kind of an internal switch as feasible, what about the other part of my original question, that is a trade? I've been to all of the ST home games, and I just don't see anyone in camp who might qualify as Hermanson's replacement.

The only guys I see the Sox trading right now would be Borchard and or Gload. I'm not sure the Sox would get much for either. That being said, an extra arm in the pen, mostly for mop-up duty shouldn't be hard to acquire.

Trav
03-13-2006, 05:07 PM
I don't see us staying as injury free as we did last year so I think that we need to start trading for people yet for fear of being short midway through the year. If our biggest problem is our bullpen then we are in good shape because of the starters we have.

TDog
03-13-2006, 05:22 PM
I don't see us staying as injury free as we did last year so I think that we need to start trading for people yet for fear of being short midway through the year. If our biggest problem is our bullpen then we are in good shape because of the starters we have.

Last year the Sox didn't have an injury-free starting rotation. Hernandez some had problems. Still, things could have been much worse, and were for many teams, some that you would think should have seen it coming.

Bullpen pitchers are easier to find, and most aren't going to be as good a quality starter waiting his turn from the bullpen. Two pitchers who made it to the Hall of Fame as relief pitchers actually have no-hitters to their credit.

chisoxfanatic
03-13-2006, 09:06 PM
Buehrle started in the bullpen, and look at the pitcher he has become! Allowing McCarthy MAJOR LEAGUE experience from the get-go could prove to be invaluable. This is a GREAT problem to have, people!!!

Tragg
03-13-2006, 09:32 PM
Buehrle started in the bullpen, and look at the pitcher he has become! Allowing McCarthy MAJOR LEAGUE experience from the get-go could prove to be invaluable. This is a GREAT problem to have, people!!!
McCarthy in the bullpen should be fine.
Good gracious he's a better pitcher than most middle relievers are.
We should have 4 really top-flight bullpen pitchers. That's pretty good.

Banix12
03-13-2006, 09:46 PM
Since noone seems to regard any kind of an internal switch as feasible, what about the other part of my original question, that is a trade? I've been to all of the ST home games, and I just don't see anyone in camp who might qualify as Hermanson's replacement.

Trades for quality veteran middle relievers are incredibly difficult to pull off this time of year. Just about every team needs relief help and very few are willing to give up established guys. The trades that usually happen this time of year are for guys who are probably going to get left off the team or young guys who have been dissapointing. Sometimes you get lucky and pick up a guy like Damaso Marte who comes out of the blue to be an effective guy, but most of the time the player is strictly AAA quality.

Ol' No. 2
03-14-2006, 04:17 PM
Let's not get hasty. They've got almost three more weeks of spring training. Let's see if someone steps up. There won't be any trades until right before spring training ends, anyway.

spiffie
03-14-2006, 05:36 PM
Keep McCarthy in the pen. Even though he may be called a "long reliever," this rotation of Clydesdales shouldn't often need "long relief" because 90% of the time they will pitch into the six or seventh inning. Consequently, McCarthy can be used to finish out a game if needed, possibly pitching two, three or even four innings on occasion. In any case, barring an epidemic of injuries or slumps among the five starters, expect that the Sox bullpen will combine to pitch fewer innings during the regular season than most other teams, just as they did in 2005. Vazquez is all but guaranteed to throw many more innings than El Duque did last year.
I decided to see how many times our starters threw 7 or more innings last year, just to see if the sense that the pen should not have too much work is a fair one. I have to say, I'm amazed how strong our starting five really is:
starts with 7+ innings
Mark Buehrle: 22 out of 33 = 67%
Freddy Garcia: 22 out of 33 = 67%
Javier Vazquez: 19 out of 33 = 58%
Jon Garland: 18 out of 32 = 56%
Jose Contreras: 12 out of 32 = 38%

The Contreras stat is a bit misleading as in his last 10 starts he threw 7+ almost every single time. If he continues with the game he brought in the second half last year, he should add to the sense that 3 out of every 5 days the Sox will be going deep with their starter.

That said, I still want a stronger pen to give Ozzie the flexibility he wants in those last 2-3 innings.