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View Full Version : Game Of Shadows : Changes to come?


SoLongFrank
03-11-2006, 02:35 PM
What do you want MLB to do & what do you think they can do?

I want to see footnotes next to MLB players past & present indicating they are suspected of taking unethical substances to aid their performance.

I can see Fehr arguing adamantly against this as itwill impact future earnings for a player. If something is written in the press it's long forgotten when it's no longer news. But a footnote would last forever. He is certain to file a greivance & take the matter before an arbitor.

I would hope Congressional pressure would sway the arbitor to Selig's side. I think they can do at least this much.

As to HOF status that's up to the people that serve on those committees but I would think the footnote would have a lasting impact. I think these players would be left out. That would of course create controversy but that only increases the buzz factor of the game & it wouldn't hurt the integrity of the institutions. Furthermore they can create a HOShame section to highlight their devotion to ethics.

The suspects are obvious. The footnote would just be confirming MLB's knowledge of that.

Rooney4Prez56
03-14-2006, 12:00 PM
If it was up to me, I would banish every steroid user, HGH user, or illegal drug user from the game and have every record of their play in baseball erased.

But that's just me.

A footnote or asterisk next to a name won't do anything. The player's record will still stand. There's really nothing to do anymore. Baseball let this happen, and their going to have to live with this scandal forever. We can complain all we want, but baseball's screwed.

D. TODD
03-14-2006, 12:21 PM
If it was up to me, I would banish every steroid user, HGH user, or illegal drug user from the game and have every record of their play in baseball erased.

But that's just me.

A footnote or asterisk next to a name won't do anything. The player's record will still stand. There's really nothing to do anymore. Baseball let this happen, and their going to have to live with this scandal forever. We can complain all we want, but baseball's screwed. That's almost everyone from the 50's, 60's, 70's, and 80's since amphetamines where illegal and popped by virtually every player to enhance their performance in those eras.

Rooney4Prez56
03-14-2006, 01:29 PM
Ill retract the illegal drug statement, but HGH and steroids stay.

santo=dorf
03-14-2006, 01:34 PM
If it was up to me, I would banish every steroid user, HGH user, or illegal drug user from the game and have every record of their play in baseball erased.

But that's just me.

A footnote or asterisk next to a name won't do anything. The player's record will still stand. There's really nothing to do anymore. Baseball let this happen, and their going to have to live with this scandal forever. We can complain all we want, but baseball's screwed.
So you would ban pot smokers? :smokin:

downstairs
03-14-2006, 01:44 PM
How about banning players who cheat? Wouldn't that be a good start.

Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Palmero, Giambi, and everyone else suspected can join Jackson and Rose until they prove otherwise.

PaulDrake
03-14-2006, 02:01 PM
That's almost everyone from the 50's, 60's, 70's, and 80's since amphetamines where illegal and popped by virtually every player to enhance their performance in those eras. I really dislike this increasingly popular argument. It's like comparing an anthill to Mt. Everest. We have some doctors on this site don't we? Long term amphetamine use will probably hinder your physical, intellectual and emotional performance.

ChiSoxRowand
03-14-2006, 04:19 PM
If guys are kept out of the hall thats perfectly fine, but you can't live in fantasyland and erase records when they weren't doing anything illegal at the time. If you wan't to erase Bond's records, why not the records of Gaylord Perry and Mike Scott?

Jurr
03-14-2006, 09:27 PM
Damn the steroid witch hunt. Nothing but something to fill the media's boring schedule and to make a couple of schlubs a bunch of money.

Clembasbal
03-14-2006, 09:33 PM
If guys are kept out of the hall thats perfectly fine, but you can't live in fantasyland and erase records when they weren't doing anything illegal at the time. If you wan't to erase Bond's records, why not the records of Gaylord Perry and Mike Scott?

How could you say it wasn't illegal? Are there not laws in the United States against this stuff? I believe there are. Who cares if baseball didn't have these "RULES" it was still illegal and therefor there should be no question on what to do with there people and their "records."

CLR01
03-14-2006, 11:20 PM
How could you say it wasn't illegal? Are there not laws in the United States against this stuff? I believe there are. Who cares if baseball didn't have these "RULES" it was still illegal and therefor there should be no question on what to do with there people and their "records."


No kidding. I am convinced that if Greg Maddux decided to spend an offseason committing genocide some of these people would argue that since it is not banned in the CBA he should still make he HOF. The only thing they would ask is an asterisk be place next to his name and in the smallest font size possible state that he was accused of unethical behavior.

Jurr
03-15-2006, 12:05 AM
No kidding. I am convinced that if Greg Maddux decided to spend an offseason committing genocide some of these people would argue that since it is not banned in the CBA he should still make he HOF. The only thing they would ask is an asterisk be place next to his name and in the smallest font size possible state that he was accused of unethical behavior.
Good stuff. I'm not sure if genocide and steroid use are on par with one another, but point made!!!!!!

CLR01
03-15-2006, 12:12 AM
Good stuff. I'm not sure if genocide and steroid use are on par with one another, but point made!!!!!!

Of course they're not but illegal is still illegal.

TDog
03-15-2006, 02:56 AM
Babe Ruth probably did cocaine, which became illegal in his rookie season with the Red Sox, a few years before he was running in the circles in New York where the drug was readily was available. For most of his Yankee years, alcohol was illegal, and there is no question he was drinking hard in those days.

gbergman
03-15-2006, 03:54 AM
we might as well ban every baseball player because who knows what they put in their bodies to get there. Pressumed guilty before proven seems to be a motto for a lot of people. I think im going to write a book about how the steroid scandals have affected young adults without concrete evidence and make millions becuase someone said something happened without proof.

voodoochile
03-15-2006, 04:02 AM
we might as well ban every baseball player because who knows what they put in their bodies to get there. Pressumed guilty before proven seems to be a motto for a lot of people. I think im going to write a book about how the steroid scandals have affected young adults without concrete evidence and make millions becuase someone said something happened without proof.

Sorry, haven't Giambi, Bonds and McGwire all admited they used?:?:

Plenty of evidence.

Heck, Bonds' statements are taken straight from his testimony, right?

You honestly believe these assclowns are clean?

gbergman
03-15-2006, 04:06 AM
Sorry, haven't Giambi, Bonds and McGwire all admited they used?:?:

Plenty of evidence.

Heck, Bonds' statements are taken straight from his testimony, right?

You honestly believe these assclowns are clean?

the ones you stated i do believe as it is evident. but it seems like a lot of people are talking shots at everyone whose production rises now adays. Don't get me wrong i do not like steriods, or any of that muscle builder crap except protein but it seems like everyone thinks because a player went from 30 to 40 or so HR they are now on steroids

voodoochile
03-15-2006, 04:07 AM
the ones you stated no i do not believe as it is evident. but it seems like a lot of people are talking shots at everyone whose production rises now adays. Don't get me wrong i do not like steriods, or any of that muscle builder crap except protein but it seems like everyone thinks because a player went from 30 to 40 or so HR they are now on steroids

Links?

PaulDrake
03-15-2006, 09:30 AM
Some of the responses in this thread leave me at a loss for words.

chaerulez
03-15-2006, 09:39 AM
the ones you stated i do believe as it is evident. but it seems like a lot of people are talking shots at everyone whose production rises now adays. Don't get me wrong i do not like steriods, or any of that muscle builder crap except protein but it seems like everyone thinks because a player went from 30 to 40 or so HR they are now on steroids

The only people that have been accused are those that are deserving of these accusations. Even people who probably did take steroids (Brady Anderson) have not had much fire come under them. It's the Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Palmerio, Giambi crowd that gets the most attention with the great majority of those players having admitted or being caught.

D. TODD
03-15-2006, 02:26 PM
How could you say it wasn't illegal? Are there not laws in the United States against this stuff? I believe there are. Who cares if baseball didn't have these "RULES" it was still illegal and therefor there should be no question on what to do with there people and their "records." Steroids aren't illegal if given the right way with a perscription, just like the amphetamines (legal for proper medical use, not for a boost to help you play). MLB did not prohibit the use of either within their rules. In fact they damn near incouraged amphetamine use. I feel they should deal with the issue as it stands now, and if they want to go back go back and attack all the players, managers, etc. not just a few stars.

daveeym
03-15-2006, 02:49 PM
Steroids aren't illegal if given the right way with a perscription, just like the amphetamines (legal for proper medical use, not for a boost to help you play). And not a single one of them had a prescription. And bulking up for sports does not fall under "if given the right way." So what's so hard to understand about anyone taking anabolic steroids was doing so ILLEGALLY???? Anyone that has an anabolic steroid prescribed to them has something SERIOUSLY wrong with them and would not be playing baseball that season or probably any season.

Dadawg_77
03-15-2006, 03:16 PM
No kidding. I am convinced that if Greg Maddux decided to spend an offseason committing genocide some of these people would argue that since it is not banned in the CBA he should still make he HOF. The only thing they would ask is an asterisk be place next to his name and in the smallest font size possible state that he was accused of unethical behavior.

When did it become MLB's job to enforce US law? A player could get high out of his mind in location where that activity was legal, but since face MLB consequences for violating MLB rules. MLB only enforcement function should be to make sure it members and employees follow MLB rules. The US and other sovereign States need to enforce the laws and not any private entity.

Dadawg_77
03-15-2006, 03:24 PM
I really dislike this increasingly popular argument. It's like comparing an anthill to Mt. Everest. We have some doctors on this site don't we? Long term amphetamine use will probably hinder your physical, intellectual and emotional performance.

PED aren't banned by sports just because for the adverse health effects. They are illegal for non-prescription use because of this but they are banned in sports because of the notion your performance should be based only on God given ability and hard work. Several banned methods of training by the World Anti-Doping Organization have no adverse health effects and only "artificially" boost your performance.

Another point your argument raises is what happens if a drug could mimic the effects of steroids without the adverse health effects? Should that be legal? Same effect on performance of the athlete but no negative draw backs.

D. TODD
03-15-2006, 03:45 PM
And not a single one of them had a prescription. And bulking up for sports does not fall under "if given the right way." So what's so hard to understand about anyone taking anabolic steroids was doing so ILLEGALLY???? Anyone that has an anabolic steroid prescribed to them has something SERIOUSLY wrong with them and would not be playing baseball that season or probably any season. True, the same can be said about many other substances that were used by players illegally by the laws of the land throughout the games history. I feel MLB needs to concentrate on the here and now of steroid use. Mike Schmidt was just on talking about how he had to pop "greenies" against tough pitchers when he felt worn down. Now "greenies" are banned by MLB, they were always illegal to use by law in the manner that Scmidt used them. Concentrate on those popping "greenies" or using roids or Andro now, not on those who did so when the league either looked the other way or encouraged the use.

ChiSoxRowand
03-15-2006, 04:00 PM
I still haven't seen anyone answer my question.

PaleHoseGeorge
03-15-2006, 04:16 PM
I still haven't seen anyone answer my question.

Steroids were illegal in 50 states. And Canada.

Now what about Gaylord Perry still has you confused?

Sheesh... this topic is setting new depths for stupidity... one guy claims the rules can't be enforced so we shouldn't bother having any... another wants to ban everybody for anything, presumably even jaywalking since he freely admits he thinks anything is a bannable offense, even activities that don't enhance performance.

Stupid, stupid, stupid...

Ol' No. 2
03-15-2006, 04:21 PM
I still haven't seen anyone answer my question.A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.

daveeym
03-15-2006, 04:31 PM
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.I like that.

Ol' No. 2
03-15-2006, 04:47 PM
I like that.I wish I could take credit, but it was Ralph Waldo Emerson.

daveeym
03-15-2006, 04:54 PM
I wish I could take credit, but it was Ralph Waldo Emerson.It's not like I thought you were that eloquent and deep. :cool: Now you've just gone and ruined the quote by telling me who it was by. :wink: