PDA

View Full Version : Josh Fields among best 3b Prospects.


KRS1
03-11-2006, 01:32 PM
Last week i posted this same site, it included Getz as #8 in their top 2b prospect list. They just released their 3b portion of their rankings, and Josh is #10.

http://baseballexaminer.com/PositionalTop10s/2006thirdbasemen.htm

After going through their list, I think Personnaly that Filds should be 8 or 7, but I guess he still has to get some seasoning to prove himself worthy. Its pretty bad they have guys who had inferior numbers at lower levels ranked higher than him, but I guess they like overrating people based on age and not potential or ceiling or to actual stats. If Josh keeps his second half and this ST up this year, we could see him bust the top 5 on their young list.

ondafarm
03-12-2006, 01:37 PM
As expected they say his plate discipline needs work. The Sox are in no rush with bringing him up. He may get a peek this September.

FarSouthSoxFan
03-12-2006, 02:43 PM
He may get a peek this September.

No, they will not. He has literally the worst AB/K ratio in the white Sox organization. He makes Borchard look like Frank Thomas when it comes to seeing the pitch. He's a good prospect, but he's a long way away. They won't start the arbitration clock with a no-purpose Sept. callup of a guy who's not nearly ready. That would be a great waste of money.

In case you were wondering...

Fields minor career AB/K: 3.39
Borchard minor career AB/K: 3.74
Corey Patterson minor career AB/K: 4.85

They're not bringing him up while that gigantic, gaping problem exists to unecessarily trigger the arbitration clock and waste one of his options.

rdivaldi
03-12-2006, 02:59 PM
No, they will not. He has literally the worst AB/K ratio in the white Sox organization. He makes Borchard look like Frank Thomas when it comes to seeing the pitch. He's a good prospect, but he's a long way away. They won't start the arbitration clock with a no-purpose Sept. callup of a guy who's not nearly ready. That would be a great waste of money.

In case you were wondering...

Fields minor career AB/K: 3.39
Borchard minor career AB/K: 3.74
Corey Patterson minor career AB/K: 4.85

They're not bringing him up while that gigantic, gaping problem exists to unecessarily trigger the arbitration clock and waste one of his options.

Yet somehow we're supposed to be all excited about Brian Anderson? He might not whiff at the rate Fields and Borchard did in the minors, but he K'd at a rate of 4.7 AB/K.

I think there are better stats to look at than K/rate.

FarSouthSoxFan
03-12-2006, 03:27 PM
Yet somehow we're supposed to be all excited about Brian Anderson? He might not whiff at the rate Fields and Borchard did in the minors, but he K'd at a rate of 4.7 AB/K.

I think there are better stats to look at than K/rate.

Name the stat that makes him look remotely ready, though.
BB/K? 55/142. Still horrible.
BA? .252. A .252 in AA does not translate well into MLB.
OBP? .341. See BA.
OPS? .750. Positively horrid.

Doesn't make one comfortable promoting him.

Please back up what you said. You can't just toss out that response and run off. What I said has been borne out by the facts. Very good prospect, simply not nearly ready. When he learns to put the ball into play, he'll get called up. Late 2007, maybe. I'm not hating on him...I have confidence that he'll get it together and be our third baseman for at least a few years...Just not too soon.

Oh, and Anderson's 4.7? Pretty much average. The median runs around 4.70-5.00. At the low end of it, but still in it.

rdivaldi
03-12-2006, 04:12 PM
Please back up what you said. You can't just toss out that response and run off. What I said has been borne out by the facts. Very good prospect, simply not nearly ready. When he learns to put the ball into play, he'll get called up. Late 2007, maybe. I'm not hating on him...I have confidence that he'll get it together and be our third baseman for at least a few years...Just not too soon.

Oh, and Anderson's 4.7? Pretty much average. The median runs around 4.70-5.00. At the low end of it, but still in it.

I'm not saying Fields is ready by any stretch of the imagination. I'm just pointing out that you're saying one guy is not ready in any way, but yet another is our opening day starting CF'er.

Anderson's strikeouts have ballooned since he's reached AAA as well.

AAA - 115 K in 448 AB (3.90 AB/K)
ML - 12 K in 34 AB (2.83 AB/K)

That's almost on par with Borchard...

AAA - 453 K in 1668 (3.68 AB/K)
ML - 93 K in 298 AB (3.20 AB/K)

I'm just saying that we should have some consistency in who we're hyping. For me Anderson is no more deserving than Fields...

FarSouthSoxFan
03-12-2006, 04:18 PM
I'm not saying Fields is ready by any stretch of the imagination. I'm just pointing out that you're saying one guy is not ready in any way, but yet another is our opening day starting CF'er.

Anderson's strikeouts have ballooned since he's reached AAA as well.

AAA - 115 K in 448 AB (3.90 AB/K)
ML - 12 K in 34 AB (2.83 AB/K)

That's almost on par with Borchard...

AAA - 453 K in 1668 (3.68 AB/K)
ML - 93 K in 298 AB (3.20 AB/K)

I'm just saying that we should have some consistency in who we're hyping. For me Anderson is no more deserving than Fields...

Ah, ok. I'm with you on this. I haven't sipped at the Anderson Kool-Aid yet. He's being overhyped, sure...But he is the most ready that we have right now. That's all relative. We don't have one of those Delmon-Young-ready-to-step-in-and-produce guys.

rdivaldi
03-12-2006, 04:27 PM
Ah, ok. I'm with you on this. I haven't sipped at the Anderson Kool-Aid yet. He's being overhyped, sure...But he is the most ready that we have right now. That's all relative. We don't have one of those Delmon-Young-ready-to-step-in-and-produce guys.

Well, there are very few of those guys around, we'd be lucky to have someone like him. I'm not high on Fields or Anderson for the record.

Save McCuddy's
03-12-2006, 09:56 PM
Ah, ok. I'm with you on this. I haven't sipped at the Anderson Kool-Aid yet. He's being overhyped, sure...But he is the most ready that we have right now. That's all relative. We don't have one of those Delmon-Young-ready-to-step-in-and-produce guys.

Amen. If Anderson was as good as he's being hyped to be, then he'd be in Arizona and we'd still have Chris Young who's clearly a higher-end prospect.

KRS1
03-12-2006, 10:48 PM
Amen. If Anderson was as good as he's being hyped to be, then he'd be in Arizona and we'd still have Chris Young who's clearly a higher-end prospect.

This is not true. We don't know if KW was given the option of Young or Anderson in this deal, and if I had to guess it was definitely hinging on Young being included. People love his speed/power combo in CF, so I'm sure the D-backs were infatuated with him like talent evaluator's across the country (cough cough....Baseball America).

rdivaldi
03-13-2006, 09:16 AM
This is not true. We don't know if KW was given the option of Young or Anderson in this deal, and if I had to guess it was definitely hinging on Young being included. People love his speed/power combo in CF, so I'm sure the D-backs were infatuated with him like talent evaluator's across the country (cough cough....Baseball America).

If we're speaking about 2006 and 2006 only, KW would more than likely have preferred to trade away Young over Anderson. Why? Because we need a CF now, and Anderson is viewed as more ready to play in the majors. Every other year though, I'm sure he would rather have kept Young and traded away Anderson. He had the highest "ceiling" of any of our outfield prospects.

Save McCuddy's
03-13-2006, 11:11 AM
This is not true. We don't know if KW was given the option of Young or Anderson in this deal, and if I had to guess it was definitely hinging on Young being included. People love his speed/power combo in CF, so I'm sure the D-backs were infatuated with him like talent evaluator's across the country (cough cough....Baseball America).

Guess you had trouble discerning my post. I indicate that if Anderson was really as good as the hype suggeests, then Arizona would have chosen him over Young. I am pretty sure that KW had no choice and that AZ chose Young. Get it?

Randar68
03-13-2006, 12:14 PM
Guess you had trouble discerning my post. I indicate that if Anderson was really as good as the hype suggeests, then Arizona would have chosen him over Young. I am pretty sure that KW had no choice and that AZ chose Young. Get it?

1) You don't "know" any of that.
2) Young is a consensus higher-ceiling player than Anderson but is at least a year behind him developmentally. Which would you take if you were
a) Trying to win this year (like the Sox)
b) Rebuilding (like the D'Backs)

So basically, you don't know *** you're talking about...

Save McCuddy's
03-13-2006, 03:15 PM
1) You don't "know" any of that.
2) Young is a consensus higher-ceiling player than Anderson but is at least a year behind him developmentally. Which would you take if you were
a) Trying to win this year (like the Sox)
b) Rebuilding (like the D'Backs)

So basically, you don't know *** you're talking about...

1) Never used the word "know".

2) How do you "know" that Young is at least a year behind Anderson developmentally? Have you been measuring their underarm hair?

Other than the musings of prognosticators and the team's PR, where do you draw that conclusion from? I look at their minor league stats and reflect on the 34 PA's BA had in the bigs last year and I don't see a player that is over a year ahead of Young.

If we could poll the scouts and "experts" that have seen both play, they would tell you that Young was the better defensive center fielder already. Granted, BA is undoubtedly more mature physically and has the stronger arm. That I will give you.

In my estimation, both players would require 100 or more at bats this season to begin to adjust to the bigs. Going for the title or not, I'd take the better defensive center fielder with the bigger upside every time.

Ideally, I'd have both of them and McCarthy in my rotation. But then again, I was against the Podsednik acquisition, so *** do I know?

maurice
03-13-2006, 03:17 PM
Fields is a year behind Anderson, too. In addition, Anderson is a very good defensive player, unlike Fields. In other words, if both players were promoted to MLB right now and struggled with the bat, Anderson still would help the team with his CF defense, while Fields would be a wasted roster spot. As the Sox illustrated in 2005, a player's value cannot determined using only a set of statistics.

I previously noted that Fields' swing looks much improved this spring, and the result has been lots of linedrives to RCF. That bodes well for a strong 2006 season in AAA (especially with the difference in ballparks between Birmingham and Charlotte).

ondafarm
03-13-2006, 03:33 PM
1) Never used the word "know".

2) How do you "know" that Young is at least a year behind Anderson developmentally? Have you been measuring their underarm hair?

Other than the musings of prognosticators and the team's PR, where do you draw that conclusion from? I look at their minor league stats and reflect on the 34 PA's BA had in the bigs last year and I don't see a player that is over a year ahead of Young.

If we could poll the scouts and "experts" that have seen both play, they would tell you that Young was the better defensive center fielder already. Granted, BA is undoubtedly more mature physically and has the stronger arm. That I will give you.

In my estimation, both players would require 100 or more at bats this season to begin to adjust to the bigs. Going for the title or not, I'd take the better defensive center fielder with the bigger upside every time.

Ideally, I'd have both of them and McCarthy in my rotation. But then again, I was against the Podsednik acquisition, so *** do I know?

I have seen both in the minors. Anderson is well ahead of Young and is ready to break into the majors. Given 100 ABs this year, he should be contributing. Young would take a lot more. I asked a Japanese friend of mine who is a scout, covering both the international and southern leagues and he told me flat out, Young would spend a year in their minors before he came up. Anderson is ready.

maurice
03-13-2006, 03:35 PM
How do you "know" that Young is at least a year behind Anderson developmentally?

Probably because he knows that Anderson was in AA a full year before Young was in AA.

Other than the musings of prognosticators and the team's PR, where do you draw that conclusion from?

I promise you that the opinions stated in this forum are not based on "the team's PR." Most of the regular contributors to this forum have actually seen our prospects play and don't need to rely solely on stat sheets and deeply flawed statistical analysis.

I look at their minor league stats and reflect on the 34 PA's BA had in the bigs last year and I don't see a player that is over a year ahead of Young.

While you're looking at the stats, note that Anderson's stats say "Chicago White Sox" and "Charlotte Knights," while Young's stats say "Birmingham Barons." Also, note that 34 PAs have no statistical significance. What did you think of Young's big-league plate appearances last year?

If we could poll the scouts and "experts" that have seen both play, they would tell you that Young was the better defensive center fielder already.

Don't state your conjecture as fact. Both Randar and I have seen Anderson and Young play in person many times. Anderson > Young defensively. In particular (as you've conceded) Anderson's arm >>> Young's arm. I suspect that you would have a hard time finding a scout who disagrees with this assessment, but feel free to give it a shot. Otherwise, stop telling us what unnamed people think without providing a factual basis for your claim.

*** do I know?

This line is WAY too easy to jump on, but I wouldn't be surprised if Randar disagrees.
:cool:

KRS1
03-13-2006, 04:07 PM
1) Never used the word "know".

2) How do you "know" that Young is at least a year behind Anderson developmentally? Have you been measuring their underarm hair?

Other than the musings of prognosticators and the team's PR, where do you draw that conclusion from? I look at their minor league stats and reflect on the 34 PA's BA had in the bigs last year and I don't see a player that is over a year ahead of Young.

If we could poll the scouts and "experts" that have seen both play, they would tell you that Young was the better defensive center fielder already. Granted, BA is undoubtedly more mature physically and has the stronger arm. That I will give you.


I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that you have never even watched Young so much as swing a bat(well, maybe the nationally televised Futures game). I would also venture to say that you are judging BA on what he did in 34 AB's last season, which when you compare to how he's adjusted and performed at every other level(while being moved at a very advanced pace) are extremely unfair. I have seen both play in person, and will say without a doubt Brian is a better player right now, and will also take a shot in saying he will be far more consistent(more steady not to mention, higher AVG, OBP ) with the bat in the future. The reason why Young is hyped on D, is because he is faster, which in most cases leads to more range. While he does push BA in the range category, Brian gets far better jumps, and I even saw Young over-utilize his speed down here in the AFL by overrunning and back tracking on some balls Brian would have had in his back pocket.

In the future don't claim false knowledge you base strictly on what you read in a box score to try and refute the claims of someone who is more knowledgeable about, as well as actually seeing the player in question. Also, you are the one who is basing your argument on,"the musings of prognosticators and the team's PR," so don't even bring that up.

Save McCuddy's
03-13-2006, 11:21 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that you have never even watched Young so much as swing a bat(well, maybe the nationally televised Futures game). I would also venture to say that you are judging BA on what he did in 34 AB's last season, which when you compare to how he's adjusted and performed at every other level(while being moved at a very advanced pace) are extremely unfair. I have seen both play in person, and will say without a doubt Brian is a better player right now, and will also take a shot in saying he will be far more consistent(more steady not to mention, higher AVG, OBP ) with the bat in the future. The reason why Young is hyped on D, is because he is faster, which in most cases leads to more range. While he does push BA in the range category, Brian gets far better jumps, and I even saw Young over-utilize his speed down here in the AFL by overrunning and back tracking on some balls Brian would have had in his back pocket.

In the future don't claim false knowledge you base strictly on what you read in a box score to try and refute the claims of someone who is more knowledgeable about, as well as actually seeing the player in question. Also, you are the one who is basing your argument on,"the musings of prognosticators and the team's PR," so don't even bring that up.

I will concede the point that I have never seen Young nor Anderson play in the minors and rely solely on second hand information in forming my opinion.

I hope you guys and BP which has linked BA to Andy Van Slyke are right.

ondafarm
03-14-2006, 12:01 PM
I will concede the point that I have never seen Young nor Anderson play in the minors and rely solely on second hand information in forming my opinion.

I hope you guys and BP which has linked BA to Andy Van Slyke are right.

Glad you went down like a gentleman.