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View Full Version : Is anyone else worried about Dustin


Whitesox4ever
03-10-2006, 05:56 PM
I have a feeling that his back is not a 100% healthy.. I believe that I read that his fastball so far has only been clocked in the low to mid 80's..

Do you think KW should go out and trade for a set-up person and if so who is available

Unregistered
03-10-2006, 05:59 PM
I have a feeling that is back is not a 100% healthy.. I believe that I read that his fastball so far has only been clocked in the low to mid 80's..

Do you think KW should go out and trade for a set-up person and if so who is availableI'm more worried about the fact that he says he feels great and can't really figure out why he's not throwing well.

KW really needs to get another lefty in the 'pen. I know it's just 1 game, but Lopez, who is/was a top lefty candidate just gave up 4 runs in the top of the 9th today.

FarSouthSoxFan
03-10-2006, 06:03 PM
KW really needs to get another lefty in the 'pen. I know it's just 1 game, but Lopez, who is/was a top lefty candidate just gave up 4 runs in the top of the 9th today.


And didn't give up a run in all of his appearances until today...

Maybe we need to unload McCarthy. That kid keeps giving up runs in spring training.

Lip Man 1
03-10-2006, 06:03 PM
We are approaching the midway point of spring training and the bullpen still looks shaky at best.

It's not only the minor leaguers which is to be expected but 'regular' guys like Politte have been getting lit up.

As I said a few days ago if this goes on another week look for Kenny to begin looking for reliable bullpen help.

Lip

Unregistered
03-10-2006, 06:05 PM
And didn't give up a run in all of his appearances until today...

Maybe we need to unload McCarthy. That kid keeps giving up runs in spring training.You must've missed the part where I said "I KNOW IT'S JUST 1 GAME..."

Sargeant79
03-10-2006, 06:35 PM
I'm not usually one for mindless optimism, but I really think the bullpen will be fine. Guys often are trying new things (like new pitches) in the spring unless they're competing for a spot. Everyone in the bullpen except for the as-yet-undetermined 11th man knows what their role is going to be, so there is no competition there. As for the 11th man, Lopez has looked good before today, and I would be fine with him breaking camp with the team. Finally, let's all remember that we have one of the most aggressive GMs in baseball. If the bullpen has issues once the season starts, I have every confidence that KW will make a move to fix it during the season.

ChiSoxLifer
03-10-2006, 07:11 PM
During today's game against the Giants, Coop mentioned they were concerned about Dusty's back but not yet sure to what extent is the injury.

NoNeckEra
03-10-2006, 08:01 PM
We are approaching the midway point of spring training and the bullpen still looks shaky at best.

It's not only the minor leaguers which is to be expected but 'regular' guys like Politte have been getting lit up.

As I said a few days ago if this goes on another week look for Kenny to begin looking for reliable bullpen help.

Lip
We won't truely know about our bullpen until at least a month into the regular season, when things really matter. Don't forget, Shingo looked great early April last year.

TomBradley72
03-10-2006, 08:39 PM
It's always tough to assess pitchers in AZ....breaking balls don't break as much, etc....

Unregistered
03-10-2006, 08:44 PM
We won't truely know about our bullpen until at least a month into the regular season, when things really matter. Don't forget, Shingo looked great early April last year.Well, Shingo went 0-1 with a blown save in April, and was lit up for 3 home runs in the 3rd game of the season.

Other than that, it was a solid month. :D:

kevin57
03-10-2006, 08:45 PM
I'm a little concerned about Dustin. I still think that after not pitching much toward the end of last season and surgery, he just needs some time to get back in the groove, but you have to wonder if he'll ever again be the dominant closer he was for that stretch last year.

delben91
03-10-2006, 08:46 PM
It's still "early." I'm willing to give the bullpen the benefit of the doubt for now. Like others have said, if it ends up that "it's broke" there's no GM I'd rather have around to "fix it" than Kenny Williams.

lostletters
03-11-2006, 12:37 AM
I am worried about Hermanson. But he was always a concern. I never saw a huge role for him this year anyway.

As far as Politte and Cotts, those guys are probably working on pitches.

Jenks has been lights out...so I am not really concerned there.

Lopez has been the most consistant lefty up to today.

Hitmen77
03-11-2006, 10:40 AM
Here's what Joey Cora said about Javier Lopez's outing yesterday in today's Trib:

Javier Lopez allowed four runs on four hits in the ninth inning of the Sox's 11-6 loss to San Francisco, but interim manager Joey Cora didn't believe Lopez jeopardized his chances of making the Opening Day roster as a left-handed reliever. "He threw strikes," Cora said. "He didn't get hit hard. He was just unlucky."
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-060310sox,1,4575151.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines

I'm worried about Hermanson and Pollite too. But, like some of you already said, it's only spring training, it's only March 11, Tuscon is tough to pitch in, etc.

Hey, I know, if our bullpen falters KW can trade Mackowiak and Cintron to Arizona for Vizciano.

ode to veeck
03-11-2006, 10:49 AM
:darkclouds:

Wayy too early for this, why do you think we have spring training, come back in the middle of April and try to make some conclusions, but not before!

tick53
03-11-2006, 10:59 AM
I'm always worried about Dustin. :?:

rdwj
03-11-2006, 11:51 AM
I'm always worried about Dustin. :?:

I'm always worried about everyone! But, I have to admit that I have a BAD feeling about Dustin this year and spring hasn't made me feel any better. For some reason, I see him as the new Marte.

delben91
03-11-2006, 11:59 AM
I'm always worried about everyone! But, I have to admit that I have a BAD feeling about Dustin this year and spring hasn't made me feel any better. For some reason, I see him as the new Marte.

Dustin wouldn't be Marte in the true sense. The risk with Dustin is he'd fall apart physically. The problem with Marte was he fell apart mentally.

SOecks
03-11-2006, 12:37 PM
:darkclouds:

Wayy too early for this, why do you think we have spring training, come back in the middle of April and try to make some conclusions, but not before!

Concern over his back is not being a dark cloud. Coop did mention Dustin's back so being worried about it is legitimate, especially after the problems he had late last year.

santo=dorf
03-11-2006, 01:08 PM
Yeah I'm so worried about the 15 pounds he lost. Maybe it was all from his back.

Christ. Do any of you think that no other baseball team's bullpen is showing signs of problems? It's the second week of Spring Training.

:darkcloud:
:chickenlittle

SOecks
03-11-2006, 01:45 PM
Yeah I'm so worried about the 15 pounds he lost. Maybe it was all from his back.

Christ. Do any of you think that no other baseball team's bullpen is showing signs of problems? It's the second week of Spring Training.


I think the whole point IS that it's ONLY the second week of Spring Training and the coaches are already concerned about a recurring problem he had last year. Why do the Dark Cloud police have to come out as soon as someone mentions a concern? Is everyone on the site just supposed to paint pictures of teddy bears and rainbows about everything related to the team without being able to voice a worry they have? A lot of people think if there's ONE potential concern with the '06 team, it is the bullpen and having Dustin ailing this early is completely legit. Why do people feel the need to roll their eyes and throw dark cloud pics up instead of addressing the issue that was brought up? :?:

SoLongFrank
03-11-2006, 02:03 PM
Yeah I'm so worried about the 15 pounds he lost. Maybe it was all from his back.

Christ. Do any of you think that no other baseball team's bullpen is showing signs of problems? It's the second week of Spring Training.


I agree. I read your signature as well. Thomas does have a point. $22M/3yr
tied up in Thome's health. But then again I'm sure Philly obtained insurance on that contract so it's not that big a deal.

NoNeckEra
03-11-2006, 04:20 PM
Why do the Dark Cloud police have to come out as soon as someone mentions a concern? Is everyone on the site just supposed to paint pictures of teddy bears and rainbows about everything related to the team without being able to voice a worry they have?
Because that's what people on message boards do. They wait for the opportunity to make a controlling statement.

SOXSINCE'70
03-11-2006, 04:32 PM
It's still early,but if this continues for another week or so,
i'm with Lip.Let's hope KW is looking for some bullpen help.
Yes,I know off speed pitches get killed in AZ,but it's almost
time to BEGIN to START getting concerned.

KRS1
03-12-2006, 04:20 PM
Some good news...... Despite a mediocre outing today Dusty's fastball is touching 88 now, which is a good building point, as everyone is still throwing at about 90-95% strength now. He showed some of his flyball nature which is somewhat of a worry, but he ended the inning with some nice GB pitches,but I'm sure as he gets more work in his stuff will go more towards that.

Here's his GB/FB/LD ratio graph since 02' in case you care to check it out. At times it appears he has his sinking stuff working very well, but he appears pretty balanced between GB/FB during the heat of the season.

http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs.aspx?playerid=195&position=P&page=9&type=full


Anybody know who the guy who went out to the mound with Ozzie was, the same guy who just took Dusty out of the game?

Whitesox4ever
03-12-2006, 04:28 PM
Looks like Dustin is injured. I wouldn't be suprised if he starts the season on the DL..

Hopefully we can pick up a good set-up person..

FarSouthSoxFan
03-12-2006, 04:35 PM
Whatever happened to Dustin Hermanson, 3rd overall draft pick? You know, the one who once hit 102 mph in a spring training workout for the Padres?

Heh. Betcha a lot of people didn't know about that. Man, he could have had a nice career.

Oh, well. We still have a perfectly respectable bullpen:

McCarthy- Will work a ton of innings with an ERA under 4
Politte- Setup
Cotts- LOOGY, Mid-reliever
Jenks- Closer
Hermanson- DL sometime during season, most likely
Lopez- strictly LOOGY
Random guy called up for D.H.'s DL trip- Mop-up

The only thing to really worry about is something like Jenks' elbow disintegrating...Thankfully, we have no evidence that this is going to happen. Dustin has become expendable. The bullpen situation is ok.

KRS1
03-12-2006, 04:40 PM
Looks like Dustin is injured. I wouldn't be suprised if he starts the season on the DL..

Hopefully we can pick up a good set-up person..


I really liked Montero in pre-ST workouts, and he's done pretty well limiting the walks so far. His track record of BB's is a bad sign though, and one can only hope Coop rights his ship because he has a real good arm.
Tim Redding hasn't look horrible so far, and beside his last outing he was actually looking darn good.
Sean Tracey is on everybody's stink list here, but Ive been one of his biggest fans since we drafted him, and that's not gonna change. Hopefully, he dials it up the second half of ST and turns some heads.

I'm not saying these guys are good set-up guys, or anything near that, but each has very good potential to contribute to our pen this year in a great way.
Hey if all else fails, we can ask for givesies-backsies on Gary Majewski from the Nats.:tongue:

delben91
03-12-2006, 04:49 PM
Looks like Dustin is injured. I wouldn't be suprised if he starts the season on the DL..

Hopefully we can pick up a good set-up person..

Do we even know what the injury is yet?

awesomefan
03-12-2006, 05:26 PM
I've been worried about Hermanson for a long time & don't think he is gonna turn around & be much good anymore.

Lip Man 1
03-12-2006, 05:49 PM
WhiteSox4Ever:

Is that 'official' or just something you think based on your observations? There was nothing mentioned in the 'official' recap of the game today on this.

I do agree though that when guys you are counting on like Hermanson and Politte both have ERA's over 12 and we are about three weeks from opening night you begin to have questions.

Lip

Lip Man 1
03-12-2006, 05:51 PM
Far South:

They way Ozzie burns through pitchers and with the inexperience of both Jenks and McCarthy I respectfully disagree with your assesment.

Just my opinion but I think Williams starts working the phones next week if things don't start to look consistently better once the starter leaves.

Lip

delben91
03-12-2006, 05:59 PM
WhiteSox4Ever:

Is that 'official' or just something you think based on your observations? There was nothing mentioned in the 'official' recap of the game today on this.

I do agree though that when guys you are counting on like Hermanson and Politte both have ERA's over 12 and we are about three weeks from opening night you begin to have questions.

Lip

Lip,

I can't find anything either, so I'm guessing it's just 4Ever postulating. If Dustin was injured and there was any sort of announcement, I'm sure someone on WSI would've posted and linked it.

As for the bullpen, I'm not worried yet. And if they give us cause for concern during the season, KW has shown time and again that he'll work tirelessly to address any weakness.

ilsox7
03-12-2006, 06:04 PM
Lip,

I can't find anything either, so I'm guessing it's just 4Ever postulating. If Dustin was injured and there was any sort of announcement, I'm sure someone on WSI would've posted and linked it.

As for the bullpen, I'm not worried yet. And if they give us cause for concern during the season, KW has shown time and again that he'll work tirelessly to address any weakness.

He came off the mound in the game today with the trainer at his side. That's about all there is now.

FarSouthSoxFan
03-12-2006, 06:26 PM
Far South:

They way Ozzie burns through pitchers and with the inexperience of both Jenks and McCarthy I respectfully disagree with your assesment

Lip

Huh?

The way you perceive Ozzie's handling of the pitching staff is off.

We had one of the fewest bullpen innings pitched totals of any team last year. We had one of the best pitch count averages per start in the majors.

Even the Billy-Beane-Worshipping Baseball prospectus guys (who hate us) say that Guillen (whom they hate) is one of the best managers as far as managing pitchers.

Most likely the Damaso Marte meltdowns skewed your view about it. Damaso will do that. He really did make it look like Ozzie burned through the bullpen guys.

Lip Man 1
03-12-2006, 08:12 PM
Far South:

Well for one example I remember the 3rd game of the season where Vizcaino had to pitch three innings because Ozzie used up his bullpen. There are times when he goes 'Tony LaRussa' and uses three pitchers to get through an inning due to the lefty / righty advantages. I know it has been discussed a lot here on the boards.

Ilsox:

Can you provide anymore information on this? Was Hermanson limping, did he look to be in pain and so forth...

Delben:

I certainly trust Kenny but I'd rather not have the Sox lose some winnable games especially early in the season because of a shaky bullpen. I think only four games separated the playoff teams in the A.L. last season and home field advantage is worth noting.

I know a number of fans here at WSI voiced concern over this in the off season after both Marte and Vizcaino were included in deals. Kenny has filled each and every other area of concern on this club. I'm just amazed he hasn't had the same concern about his bullpen.

We'll see.

Lip

bigfoot
03-12-2006, 08:30 PM
[quote=Lip Man 1]Far South:

Well for one example I remember the 3rd game of the season where Vizcaino had to pitch three innings because Ozzie used up his bullpen. There are times when he goes 'Tony LaRussa' and uses three pitchers to get through an inning due to the lefty / righty advantages. I know it has been discussed a lot here on the boards.

Ilsox:

Can you provide anymore information on this? Was Hermanson limping, did he look to be in pain and so forth...


Not limping, but he'd already been visited by Oz and the trainer prior to giving up a hit. Most of his pitches were way up in the zone and in the mid/low 80's. After the hit, he was taken out of the game. No limp, but he wasn't exactly trotting off the field either. Concern, you bet given his health history. Alarm, maybe a two-alarm fire, with the lack of a leader or two coming out of the "auditions" for the last BP spot. There may be room for even more.

Anyone hear about the Nomo signing?

ilsox7
03-12-2006, 08:48 PM
Lip:

As mentioned, no visible signs. It almost seemed as though he has been getting rocked so much his last couple of outings that they are thinking something must be wrong. That is probably not the case, but I didn't see him reach for anything or even try to stretch something out. Hopefully we get good news tomorrow.

Man Soo Lee
03-12-2006, 08:50 PM
"It is still early but I still have a lot of concerns about his back," Chicago manager Ozzie Guillen said. "We will see what happens but we are going to go out and look for people to replace him."

White Sox officials said the right-hander is feeling discomfort and instability in his back and will be treated aggressively on Monday.

Link (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap;_ylt=ArIOeJG790UHpPHk9oW5jVARvLYF?gid=260312 104)

Whitesox4ever
03-12-2006, 08:55 PM
Dustin Hermanson left Sunday's game in the seventh inning because of pain in his lower back.
Nothing new for Hermanson. "It is still early but I still have a lot of concerns about his back," manager Ozzie Guillen said. "We will see what happens but we are going to go out and look for people to replace him." The White Sox could always shift Brandon McCarthy to a setup role, but beyond him, they're hurting for pitching depth, in part because Luis Vizcaino, Damaso Marte and Jeff Bajenaru were all moved in trades. Hermanson's availability for the start of the season likely won't be known for some time. Mar. 12 - 8:22 pm et

Whitesox4ever
03-12-2006, 09:10 PM
Since Ozzie mention that they're looking for guys to replace Dustin.. Who is out there that we can get...

FarSouthSoxFan
03-12-2006, 09:17 PM
Since Ozzie mention that they're looking for guys to replace Dustin.. Who is out there that we can get...

Scot Shields

KRS1
03-12-2006, 09:27 PM
Since Ozzie mention that they're looking for guys to replace Dustin.. Who is out there that we can get...


As always, almost anybody is available for the right price. Hopefully we don't get taken advantage of and end up overpaying because of our situation.

TomBradley72
03-12-2006, 09:29 PM
It's time to face reality....Hermanson has been seriously effected by his back problems since the middle of last year. After a full off season of rest, etc....it doesn't look any better. If I was KW and Ozzie I would be operating today as if he will not be able to contribute at all this year. I just hope we haven't used up all of our trade bait with the other off season acquisitions. If Hermie is out....we now have 2-3 open bullpen slots that need to be filled.

Whitesox4ever
03-12-2006, 09:33 PM
How about we trade a few top prospects to K.C. for Ambiorix Burgos and Andrew Sisco that would fulfill our bullpen holes and gives K.C a chance to build for the future

FarSouthSoxFan
03-12-2006, 09:35 PM
It's time to face reality....Hermanson has been seriously effected by his back problems since the middle of last year. After a full off season of rest, etc....it doesn't look any better. If I was KW and Ozzie I would be operating today as if he will not be able to contribute at all this year. I just hope we haven't used up all of our trade bait with the other off season acquisitions. If Hermie is out....we now have 2-3 open bullpen slots that need to be filled.

Other than the LOOGY, all we really need is a mop-up loser guy. That being said, it would of course be preferable to go get someone who's actually good.

Naturally, we'll be bent over in any deal for a winner.

itsnotrequired
03-12-2006, 09:44 PM
Article up at whitesox.com:

Athletic trainer Herm Schneider characterized Hermanson's back as being plagued by "instability and discomfort," with aggressive treatment next on the docket. Though Guillen believes that it's too early to declare Hermanson's problem as serious, he readily admitted that the White Sox might be looking to fill two bullpen vacancies instead of just one.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060312&content_id=1346831&vkey=spt2006news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

FarSouthSoxFan
03-12-2006, 09:48 PM
How about we trade a few top prospects to K.C. for Ambiorix Burgos and Andrew Sisco that would fulfill our bullpen holes and gives K.C a chance to build for the future

Sisco, WHIP 1.46
Burgos WHIP 1.44
Not-so-hot GB/FB ratios, either.

Ummm...NO. Scary as heck. Talk about two guys that had a lucky 2005. Those two look better than they are. Those WHIPS are incredibly high. Just astronomical for relievers who aren't mop-ups. That's frightening. Think Marte, just to a lesser degree.

In comparison:
Politte 0.94
Cotts 1.11

I'll take Scott Linebrink instead, please. :D:

TomBradley72
03-12-2006, 09:49 PM
Other than the LOOGY, all we really need is a mop-up loser guy. That being said, it would of course be preferable to go get someone who's actually good.

Naturally, we'll be bent over in any deal for a winner.

Depends on whether the long term plan is 11 or 12 pitchers. If its 12, with seven potential bullpen spots:

Jenks
Cotts
Politte
McCarthy
LH Specialist?
Replacement for Hermanson?
Final Spot?

delben91
03-12-2006, 09:49 PM
How about we trade a few top prospects to K.C. for Ambiorix Burgos and Andrew Sisco that would fulfill our bullpen holes and gives K.C a chance to build for the future

Not a bad idea, but I'd be really surprised to see KC trade within the division like that. And I'd be even more surprised to see the Sox trade prospects within the division that could come back to hurt them nearly 20 times a season in a few years.

Wonder if Redding could do the job?

FarSouthSoxFan
03-12-2006, 09:52 PM
Not a bad idea, but I'd be really surprised to see KC trade within the division like that. And I'd be even more surprised to see the Sox trade prospects within the division that could come back to hurt them nearly 20 times a season in a few years.

Wonder if Redding could do the job?

Those two = bad but lucky pitchers right now re: WHIPs.

Whitesox4ever
03-12-2006, 10:04 PM
:darkclouds:

Wayy too early for this, why do you think we have spring training, come back in the middle of April and try to make some conclusions, but not before!

Is it still to early to worry about Dustin injury... Before you give dark clouds to someone do some research.

I guess I was right about Dustin since I mention about him being injured a week ago and now he will probably start the season on the DL..

sox230
03-12-2006, 10:09 PM
He was always a bum, I predicted that he would blow a game for us in the playoffs. nthis is even more proof that he is a bum. He should not pitch until he is healthy, and when he is healthy, he should pitch in the minor leagues. I would have much rather given up hermanson than viscaino.

FarSouthSoxFan
03-12-2006, 10:10 PM
He was always a bum.

Teal? :o:

Whitesox4ever
03-12-2006, 10:12 PM
He was always a bum, I predicted that he would blow a game for us in the playoffs. nthis is even more proof that he is a bum. He should not pitch until he is healthy, and when he is healthy, he should pitch in the minor leagues. I would have much rather given up hermanson than viscaino.

Dustin was solid for us in the first half of the season last year before he got injured.. I hope he comes back and has a solid year..

itsnotrequired
03-12-2006, 10:17 PM
He was always a bum, I predicted that he would blow a game for us in the playoffs. nthis is even more proof that he is a bum. He should not pitch until he is healthy, and when he is healthy, he should pitch in the minor leagues. I would have much rather given up hermanson than viscaino.
:rolleyes:

Through the end of May, Hermanson threw 21 innings, had 11 saves and an ERA of 0.00. What, not good enough for you?

Hell, take a look at the whole season: 57.1 IP, 34 SV, 5 BS, 33 K, 17 BB, 2.04 ERA. He was in the top 10 AL pitchers for saves. Throw him under the bus!

Lip Man 1
03-12-2006, 10:19 PM
My own personal opinion is that the Sox need more then another 'lefty' out of the pen and a 'loser mop up' guy.

That second lefty may turn out to be a kid with no experience same as McCarthy pitching out of the bullpen and Jenks for that matter has very little of it at this level.

The Sox need two bona fide relief pitchers with experience... doesn't matter if they are left handed or right handed.

Regarding the Royals they probably won't be dealing with a division opponent. Oddly enough Colorado has a bunch of veteran guys who may be available.

Pick up the phone Kenny... trade two or three double A kids and get some help.

Regarding Hermanson, the guy worked hard this off season to get into good shape, dropped ten pounds, came to camp healthy yet is still apparently having issues. A lower back is one of those things that's never really 'cured,' at least not without surgery.

Lip

delben91
03-12-2006, 10:23 PM
My own personal opinion is that the Sox need more then another 'lefty' out of the pen and a 'loser mop up' guy.

That second lefty may turn out to be a kid with no experience same as McCarthy pitching out of the bullpen and Jenks for that matter has very little of it at this level.

The Sox need two bona fide relief pitchers with experience... doesn't matter if they are left handed or right handed.

Regarding the Royals they probably won't be dealing with a division opponent. Oddly enough Colorado has a bunch of veteran guys who may be available.

Pick up the phone Kenny... trade two or three double A kids and get some help.

Lip

My bet is Kenny waits a week or two for a couple reasons. See what Hermanson's status is, and also to see who is looking like the "odd man out" in the bullpens of some other teams.

Lip Man 1
03-12-2006, 10:25 PM
Delben:

Good points although I think two weeks is pushing things. The new guy has to have time to get acclimated to the team and the pitching philosophy before the season opens.

I mean trying to figure out what A.J. wants on opening night isn't the best scenario.

Lip

Whitesox4ever
03-12-2006, 10:26 PM
from whitesox.com

On Wednesday of last week, general manager Ken Williams said that the White Sox planned to break camp with 11 pitchers unless one was unable to fulfill his role but was not a big enough injury problem to be placed on the disabled list. He also said that every team in baseball is looking for quality relief pitching, and that he fields frequent inquiries about hurlers available on his staff or in his system. It appears that if Hermanson is unable to break from Arizona, the replacement will come from within the organization.

FarSouthSoxFan
03-12-2006, 10:28 PM
from whitesox.com

On Wednesday of last week, general manager Ken Williams said that the White Sox planned to break camp with 11 pitchers unless one was unable to fulfill his role but was not a big enough injury problem to be placed on the disabled list. He also said that every team in baseball is looking for quality relief pitching, and that he fields frequent inquiries about hurlers available on his staff or in his system. It appears that if Hermanson is unable to break from Arizona, the replacement will come from within the organization.

Awwww. I wanted Scott Linebrink.

Whitesox4ever
03-12-2006, 10:31 PM
this might be a long shot but what about Hiedo Nomo replacing Dustin...

FarSouthSoxFan
03-12-2006, 10:32 PM
this might be a long shot but what about Hiedo Nomo replacing Dustin...

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little...Then again, he's certainly a mop-up.

kevin57
03-12-2006, 10:56 PM
Most want to give DH the benefit of the doubt. It is obvious that the very best was done for him, and he has done his part, to come to '06 ready and able, but that does not look very promising right now. I think it's time at least to start exploring other options.

Save McCuddy's
03-12-2006, 11:23 PM
Promoting from within is the best way to address this shortfall -- just as it was with Jenks last year. Healthy organizations get something out of their prospect arms as opposed to renting the likes of Scott Eyre for lack of imagination.

Wonder why we didn't invite Meaux to camp? With the ongoing LOOGY derby, I'd have thought he rated a shot. Do we still have him? His peripherals aren't bad -- he could be worth a shot somewhere in the middle to back. I love the K's with Daniel Haigwood -- maybe they shorten him up from starter to bull pen and we call him up a couple of months later. That is, if we still have him.

KRS1
03-12-2006, 11:44 PM
Promoting from within is the best way to address this shortfall -- just as it was with Jenks last year. Healthy organizations get something out of their prospect arms as opposed to renting the likes of Scott Eyre for lack of imagination.

Wonder why we didn't invite Meaux to camp? With the ongoing LOOGY derby, I'd have thought he rated a shot. Do we still have him? His peripherals aren't bad -- he could be worth a shot somewhere in the middle to back. I love the K's with Daniel Haigwood -- maybe they shorten him up from starter to bull pen and we call him up a couple of months later. That is, if we still have him.


We traded Meaux to the Padres mid-season for Geoff, he was available as a 6-year FA, but we didnt want him apparently.

We traded Haigwood a long while ago for Thome. How long have you followed White Sox baseball?

cards press box
03-13-2006, 12:10 AM
I know that Colorado picked up Josh Fogg in the offseason. I don't know what kind of spring Fogg is having but I thought (and still think) that he is best suited to be a short reliever. Fogg could help the White Sox in that role.

lostletters
03-13-2006, 03:28 AM
I am getting really worried about Dustin.

I would not be shocked if the White Sox broke camp with two lefties.

The bullpen is becoming a big concern for me. Luckily there is time to work things out, but this is still going to be a big concern.

Deebs14
03-13-2006, 04:13 AM
I am getting really worried about Dustin.

I would not be shocked if the White Sox broke camp with two lefties.

The bullpen is becoming a big concern for me. Luckily there is time to work things out, but this is still going to be a big concern.

I'm conerned too, but I'm gonna let this thing play put before I start to count my hatches. Go Illini!

IlliniSox4Life
03-13-2006, 04:20 AM
Personally, I think the best route would be to promote from within at first. Our starters can eat enough innings and with McCarthy in the pen doing longer relief, we can ease the load on the rest of the pen if it really is weak. Wait around, look to see if somebody else with a weakness somewhere else wants to trade us relief pitching. Not every championship team is strong in every aspect of their team. They are just strong in enough places that they can pick up the slack when the other areas can't handle it. That is what our starters and defense will do for our relief if they need it. Don't panic guys, we didn't have Dustin in the playoffs at all and won the world series. I doubt Kenny seriously entered this season expecting Hermanson to be healthy. If he didn't think we could handle Hermanson going down, I think he would've addressed it in the off season.

kevin57
03-13-2006, 10:03 AM
Personally, I think the best route would be to promote from within at first. Our starters can eat enough innings and with McCarthy in the pen doing longer relief, we can ease the load on the rest of the pen if it really is weak. Wait around, look to see if somebody else with a weakness somewhere else wants to trade us relief pitching. Not every championship team is strong in every aspect of their team. They are just strong in enough places that they can pick up the slack when the other areas can't handle it. That is what our starters and defense will do for our relief if they need it. Don't panic guys, we didn't have Dustin in the playoffs at all and won the world series. I doubt Kenny seriously entered this season expecting Hermanson to be healthy. If he didn't think we could handle Hermanson going down, I think he would've addressed it in the off season.

I agree that Kenny wasn't counting on Dustin, but I also think that management has been disappointed by how poorly most of the "newbies" are doing thus far. I don't think they feel confident with promoting from within right now.

Save McCuddy's
03-13-2006, 12:07 PM
We traded Meaux to the Padres mid-season for Geoff, he was available as a 6-year FA, but we didnt want him apparently.

We traded Haigwood a long while ago for Thome. How long have you followed White Sox baseball?

Thanks for the info.

Lip Man 1
03-13-2006, 01:25 PM
Illini:

Story in today's paper says the Sox will look at two options in camp, one being Redding, and if they don't work out they'll be looking to deal.

Lip

IlliniSox4Life
03-13-2006, 03:41 PM
Lip Man:

That's exactly what my point was. It's not time to panic. They need to promote from within and give them a shot. The rest of our team is good enough that they can pick up the slack if KW doesn't acquire a reliever entering the season. Kenny has the time to be patient and rely on the players we have to give him that time.

kevin57:
My point is not that it was they feel confident with who they have, it was that unless there is a trade out there that is a good one, Kenny can afford to wait. He doesn't need to panic and go trade for someone else right away. He has the time to let someone step up, and if they don't, then he still should have some time to find a trade that would work for him. A reliever isn't a starter or a position player that is playing every day. Kenny won't trade something away he'd regret later because he was too anxious to pull the trigger

spiffie
03-13-2006, 03:51 PM
Lip Man:

That's exactly what my point was. It's not time to panic. They need to promote from within and give them a shot. The rest of our team is good enough that they can pick up the slack if KW doesn't acquire a reliever entering the season. Kenny has the time to be patient and rely on the players we have to give him that time.

kevin57:
My point is not that it was they feel confident with who they have, it was that unless there is a trade out there that is a good one, Kenny can afford to wait. He doesn't need to panic and go trade for someone else right away. He has the time to let someone step up, and if they don't, then he still should have some time to find a trade that would work for him. A reliever isn't a starter or a position player that is playing every day. Kenny won't trade something away he'd regret later because he was too anxious to pull the trigger
I guess I don't feel the same level of confidence in what we have. We have a 3 man bullpen and a manager who has a tendency to use a lot of pitchers to get the situational matchups he wants. I love McCarthy, but we have no idea yet how he will adjust to having only 1-2 batters to face. So now we have Jenks, who has one half-season of major league experience, and two guys I feel good about in Politte and Cotts. Beyond that, it's a chasm at this point. To continue this way means either Ozzie ends up having to make a lot less moves with the pen, or we see a lot of situations where unproven guys who are not exactly the best options get into the game in crucial situations. As of right now I haven't seen one new person I would feel comfortable bringing into a big division game in the 7th inning to get an out or two. At this point we may have to "overpay", but if the payment means our bullpen holds leads all year long, I'll take giving away one more prospect who might have a 1/10 chance of being a big league player.

Lip Man 1
03-13-2006, 06:08 PM
Spiffie:

Right on the money post!

By the way some of these minor league pitchers have looked absolutely awful this spring...what the hell is going on? (latest example...today)

By the way Borchard's trade value keeps going up....maybe ship him out with a double A prospect for an arm.

Lip

TomBradley72
03-13-2006, 06:17 PM
At this point we may have to "overpay", but if the payment means our bullpen holds leads all year long, I'll take giving away one more prospect who might have a 1/10 chance of being a big league player.

My concern is that the cupboard is getting pretty bare when it comes to prospects that will bring anything of value in return. Well....in KW we trust...we needs some Chuck Norris level magic from KW on this one.

SoxSpeed22
03-13-2006, 06:50 PM
My concern is that the cupboard is getting pretty bare when it comes to prospects that will bring anything of value in return. Well....in KW we trust...we needs some Chuck Norris level magic from KW on this one.Other than the loser between Borchard and Gload, does this make Casey Rogowski trade bait as well?

Lip Man 1
03-13-2006, 08:24 PM
One thing to keep in mind regarding those who say the Sox can afford to wait still and see how the minor leaguers perform.

If another team or two has any pitching injuries the price of poker goes way up (same as in July). It may actually be better and cost less in trade if Williams strikes quickly.

Waiting may turn out to be a major mistake. We'll have to see how Kenny decides to play it.

My guess...as aggressive as he is, and as determined as he is to return to the post-season again, I think he makes a move in the next week. Overall the minor leaguers and 'retreds' have looked awful and Hermanson suddenly isn't going to have his back problem 'cured.' (Wonder if he's tried acupuncture?)

Noticed in the paper today the 'starters' spring ERA is 2.5, the bullpen...that's a different story.

Lip

gr8mexico
03-13-2006, 09:15 PM
Well the Sox have a couple of options. They have a couple of players they can trade Pablo Ozuna, Joe Borchard, Ross Gload, and a couple of minor league prospects. I'm sure they can package some guys for a relief pitcher or they can just wait and see what happens with Tim Redding and J.Lopez. Cliff Pollite and Neal Cotts can be the setup guys for Jenks but I would like to see the Sox get Eddie Guardado from the Mariners. I know the M's wanted to trade him or the Sox can always wait and see what happens to Urbina and see if they can sign him if he ever gets out.

Tragg
03-13-2006, 09:29 PM
So now we have Jenks, who has one half-season of major league experience, and two guys I feel good about in Politte and Cotts. Beyond that, it's a chasm at this point. To continue this way means either Ozzie ends up having to make a lot less moves with the pen, or we see a lot of situations where unproven guys who are not exactly the best options get into the game in crucial situations. As of right now I haven't seen one new person I would feel comfortable bringing into a big division game in the 7th inning to get an out or two. At this point we may have to "overpay", but if the payment means our bullpen holds leads all year long, I'll take giving away one more prospect who might have a 1/10 chance of being a big league player. What about McCarthy?
If we're buying a middle reliever, it should come cheap.
Trade Osuna for one.
We can easily get a middle reliever for Borchard --and may regret it soon. Someone has to be the bench bat this season, anyway.

kevin57
03-13-2006, 09:57 PM
kevin57:
My point is not that it was they feel confident with who they have, it was that unless there is a trade out there that is a good one, Kenny can afford to wait. He doesn't need to panic and go trade for someone else right away. He has the time to let someone step up, and if they don't, then he still should have some time to find a trade that would work for him. A reliever isn't a starter or a position player that is playing every day. Kenny won't trade something away he'd regret later because he was too anxious to pull the trigger

I heard Kenny on the radio also calling for calm. In fact, it sounded like they are not quite counting DH out completely; just not going to bank much on him. I see your point, but you have to say that so far none of the "kids" being given a shot at a relief roster spot is showing much to inspire. In fact, they're sucking big time.

Still, I'm watching the PODS situation more closely. He says he'll be 100% by Opening Day. We need him to be. I remember how hot we were when he was hitting on all cylinders and how we languished when he was on the DL. In fact, our winning percentage seemed to be closely correlated to exactly how much he was at the top of his game.

SouthSide_HitMen
03-13-2006, 11:53 PM
from whitesox.com

On Wednesday of last week, general manager Ken Williams said that the White Sox planned to break camp with 11 pitchers unless one was unable to fulfill his role but was not a big enough injury problem to be placed on the disabled list. He also said that every team in baseball is looking for quality relief pitching, and that he fields frequent inquiries about hurlers available on his staff or in his system. It appears that if Hermanson is unable to break from Arizona, the replacement will come from within the organization.

Kenny flying under the radar again.

I look for a possible deal depending on how Hermanson reacts over the next few days.

Cotts, Politte & Jenks - Very Good to Awesome
McCarthy - Great Swingman but if he needs to fill in for a starter, one less good arm for the bullpen.

Spots 5 & 6 on the website are Hermanson and David Sanders who wasn't impressive here (13.50 ERA two outings) and mediocre to poor in Charlotte (1.50 WHIP, 47 - 32 K BB ratio in 65 IP & 10 HRs - yikes) and no 7 (and I know we are not starting with one but it is assumed at somepoint we will need one).

I am sure Kenny will do something as he will not let his over $90 mil team breakdown over one or two $500,000 - $1,000,000 back end relief pitchers. Something will pan out in the minors / waiver wire / minor deal.

DaleJRFan
03-14-2006, 12:17 AM
Noticed in the paper today the 'starters' spring ERA is 2.5, the bullpen...that's a different story.

The attitude that I've picked up on (albeit the media, web, etc) is that the Sox are going to expect 7/8 innings from the starters seemingly every time they toe the rubber. If this is the case, McCarthy/Cotts/Politte/Jenks is all the Sox would need.

Man, Vizcaino is looking really good right now... :o: :cool:

spiffie
03-14-2006, 12:54 AM
The attitude that I've picked up on (albeit the media, web, etc) is that the Sox are going to expect 7/8 innings from the starters seemingly every time they toe the rubber. If this is the case, McCarthy/Cotts/Politte/Jenks is all the Sox would need.
Problem with that is...well, let's go back just a little less than a year ago.

April 7, 2005:
Jose Contreras pitches 6 good innings against Cleveland, 4 hits and 1 run on 96 pitches. So in the 7th Ozzie turns the ball over to the pen. We see the following pitchers:
Neil Cotts - 1/3 inning
Politte - 1/3 inning
Marte - 1/3 inning
Hermanson - 1 inning
Takatsu - 2/3 inning (blown save)
Vizcaino - 2 1/3 innings

Ozzie loves to work the matchups. The only bullpen pitcher generally allowed last year to work against both sides of the plate was the closer, whomever that happened to be at the time. But even had Shingo not blown the save, it would have been a six pitcher outing where we were up 5-1 when the starter got taken out. And I think anyone who watched this team last year would agree this was not abnormal or somehow aberrant in terms of lots of pitchers getting short stints.

I trust they will find what they need to find be it internal or external. But right now I think this is the one piece of the team that gives any reason for concern. The rotation is amazing, the lineup looks solid, just need a little more security in the pen and we're good to go.

Tragg
03-14-2006, 08:44 AM
I trust they will find what they need to find be it internal or external. But right now I think this is the one piece of the team that gives any reason for concern. The rotation is amazing, the lineup looks solid, just need a little more security in the pen and we're good to go.
We had a great pen last year. At the end of the year, Viz was the bottom end of our pen - number 6; he'd have been the third or fourth guy in most pens in the league. If Hermanson can't go, we're two pitchers down from last year (lose Dustin, Viz, Marte; add McCarthy). I doubt anyone we get can replace those guys; we'll have to win differently.
It would be nice for a young pitcher (other than McCarthy) to prove worthy for this team's pen. I've seen REdding pitch enough over the last 5 years to know a rick white junior when I see him (fixing Redding would be Cooper's greatest miracle yet).

itsnotrequired
03-14-2006, 08:54 AM
Kenny flying under the radar again.

I look for a possible deal depending on how Hermanson reacts over the next few days.

Cotts, Politte & Jenks - Very Good to Awesome
McCarthy - Great Swingman but if he needs to fill in for a starter, one less good arm for the bullpen.

Spots 5 & 6 on the website are Hermanson and David Sanders who wasn't impressive here (13.50 ERA two outings) and mediocre to poor in Charlotte (1.50 WHIP, 47 - 32 K BB ratio in 65 IP & 10 HRs - yikes) and no 7 (and I know we are not starting with one but it is assumed at somepoint we will need one).

I am sure Kenny will do something as he will not let his over $90 mil team breakdown over one or two $500,000 - $1,000,000 back end relief pitchers. Something will pan out in the minors / waiver wire / minor deal.

Sox are starting to take a more serious look at Boone Logan:

But Hermanson's pain in the back wasn't the biggest story coming from the jigsaw puzzle that is the White Sox bullpen. Boone Logan hurled two scoreless innings during Oakland's 9-8 victory over Chicago on Monday, with the left-hander allowing one hit and one walk.


"When I saw Logan, it's something I really liked. We are looking for strikes. Let the hitters put the ball in play, and with the way we play defense, that's what we want. We are going to take a better look at him and hopefully it will work." [Ozzie quote]
The true starting point for Logan came two Sundays ago during an intrasquad game, when the 6-foot-5 left-hander struck out both Rob Mackowiak and Jim Thome during 1 1/3 innings of work. In the interim, Logan has gone from a pitcher who has never played a full season for any team other than Great Falls of the Advanced Rookie Pioneer League since joining the White Sox in 2003 to one of the leading contenders to round out the White Sox relief corps.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060313&content_id=1348213&vkey=spt2006news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Lip Man 1
03-14-2006, 12:37 PM
From the Chicago Sun-Times. Latest news...apparently Ozzie and Kenny disagree over Hermanson and its effect:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-cowley14.html

Lip

SOecks
03-14-2006, 12:49 PM
I'd think this is more of a positioning statement to the rest of the league. He doesn't want to come off as desperate to other teams and get lower value in a trade situation. That's my guess at least.

SBSoxFan
03-14-2006, 04:10 PM
Wonder if he's tried acupuncture?
I wonder if he's tried this:

http://images.bestwebbuys.com/muze/books/08/0446392308.jpg

PicktoCLick72
03-14-2006, 05:08 PM
I am worried about the bullpen a little too, but I feel some people are really not being rational. Let's wait and see what happens.

CaptainBallz
03-14-2006, 05:22 PM
Tomorrow is Wednesday.

thomas35forever
03-14-2006, 07:43 PM
If he's not ready for Opening Day, then there should be cause for concern. Otherwise, I'm not too worried.

MVP
03-21-2006, 01:53 PM
Dustin's health definitely concerns me. I read that the pain can't be treated. It can only maybe be controlled. It sounds pretty bad and it sounds like he's considering retirement. My guess is that if he doesn't retire his back will be an on-going problem this season. The Sox should make a trade if they can. If they can't pull off a trade, it may be that Hideo Nomo starts the year off in the Sox bullpen.

KRS1
03-21-2006, 01:58 PM
Dustin's health definitely concerns me. I read that the pain can't be treated. It can only maybe be controlled. It sounds pretty bad and it sounds like he's considering retirement. My guess is that if he doesn't retire his back will be an on-going problem this season. The Sox should make a trade if they can. If they can't pull off a trade, it may be that Hideo Nomo starts the year off in the Sox bullpen.


Nomo will not be in our pen, ever.... Right now I'd take anyone we have in camp over Nomo.

Lip Man 1
03-21-2006, 02:09 PM
Based on Williams comments today it looks like Hermanson will start the season on the DL.

Lip