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View Full Version : Selig vs. Wells, etc.


NonetheLoaiza
03-08-2006, 12:45 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2359283

Article on ESPN. Got me to thinking about the whole situation with Selig and the steroids issue. I just can't see him lasting too much longer. What does everyone else think about what Wells has said about Selig, and about Selig in general. It might be beating a dead horse, but I kind of want to see what everyone thinks of Bud Selig, the good and the bad. It just seems like the past couple of years have been the defining moment of Selig's career as Commish.

Discuss...

tebman
03-08-2006, 01:58 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2359283

Article on ESPN. Got me to thinking about the whole situation with Selig and the steroids issue. I just can't see him lasting too much longer. What does everyone else think about what Wells has said about Selig, and about Selig in general. It might be beating a dead horse, but I kind of want to see what everyone thinks of Bud Selig, the good and the bad. It just seems like the past couple of years have been the defining moment of Selig's career as Commish.

Discuss...
I don't think Selig is a bad guy, just a very dumb guy. I never understood why the owners set him up as commissioner. I know they wanted one of their own in that position, but why would they want somebody who would be embarrassing?

Peter Ueberrroth was good at what he did. He wasn't as poetic as Bart Giamatti or as independent as Fay Vincent, but he was a savvy guy who knew what he was doing. The owners made a big mistake letting him get away. After Vincent got too uppity for the owners, they installed Selig, whose legacy will be his shrugging to end the tied 2002 All-Star Game.

What a maroon.

Ol' No. 2
03-08-2006, 02:00 PM
The owners knew what's been going on. Selig knew. Everybody knew. Some time soon, someone is going to have to take the fall, and Selig is tailor-made.

HotelWhiteSox
03-08-2006, 02:20 PM
Good point on ESPN Radio today, Wells will probably be fined/punished for free speech, while Bonds gets off for illegal activity, and slapping the history/integrity of the game in the face.

SouthSide_HitMen
03-08-2006, 02:24 PM
I don't think Selig is a bad guy, just a very dumb guy. I never understood why the owners set him up as commissioner. I know they wanted one of their own in that position, but why would they want somebody who would be embarrassing?

Peter Ueberrroth was good at what he did. He wasn't as poetic as Bart Giamatti or as independent as Fay Vincent, but he was a savvy guy who knew what he was doing. The owners made a big mistake letting him get away. After Vincent got too uppity for the owners, they installed Selig, whose legacy will be his shrugging to end the tied 2002 All-Star Game.

What a maroon.

Bud Selig is a stooge - nothing more nothing less. He does what is told and what was good for his small market Brewers / the midwest cabal who will install Andy MacPhail in 2009 as the next commissioner.

Positives - he created a multi billion $ internet site / media (not funded by taxpayers!), he led the multi billion $ stadium extortion racket (great for owners / players, not so much for taxpayers), he helped grow baseball's outreach internationally and has put the league's money where its mouth is with minority outreach in management (and I am not a "PC" type of guy but I do think people need to have the opportunities to get in their foot in the door at the lower levels (such as Kenny's first jobs with the White Sox) so they can prove they have the talent to succeed).

Negatives - 1994, trying to contract Minnesota (quid pro quo for his loans from Pohlad which are against MLB rules - the same rules he was "hired to enforce") and Montreal (and the subsequent mess), the steroid scandal where he put his head in the sand for 15 years and hoped it went away until he lied in front of congress one too many times and was finally forced to put the bare minimum testing plan (which by the way will still not detect HGH, the clear, the cream or anything else BALCO like companies are working on).

Bud Selig is a liar (used car dealing skills do come in handy), but he lies for the good of the owners which is why they continue to extend his contract. I don't know if baseball ever had or will have (or wants) a decent commissioner nor do I expect one as long as I am alive.

PS - Wells is an assclown but he is correct and Selig is even more of an assclown but that is why he gets paid the big bucks.

PS 2 -Tebman - you may want to correct your post before U of C students / alumni get the wrong idea. :)

NonetheLoaiza
03-08-2006, 02:25 PM
The owners knew what's been going on. Selig knew. Everybody knew. Some time soon, someone is going to have to take the fall, and Selig is tailor-made.

With all that is going on in the past couple of weeks, and now with the release of the book about Bonds' activities, I don't see Selig lasting too much longer, definitely going to be the scapegoat. He was chastized by Congress, and has been criticized, rightly IMO, about his handling of the situation. The whole situation is a mess, and you just have to wonder about where to go from there...

tebman
03-08-2006, 02:38 PM
PS 2 -Tebman - you may want to correct your post before U of C students / alumni get the wrong idea. :)
Good point! I neglected the attribution:

"What a maroon." -- Bugs Bunny

fquaye149
03-08-2006, 05:01 PM
Good point on ESPN Radio today, Wells will probably be fined/punished for free speech, while Bonds gets off for illegal activity, and slapping the history/integrity of the game in the face.

While I don't excuse Bonds getting off for illegal activity (if he does), what in the history of anything gives you the idea that free speech rights apply within private organizations?

Hell, even public schools reserve the right to punish students for expression they deem unacceptable.

downstairs
03-08-2006, 05:56 PM
The owners knew what's been going on. Selig knew. Everybody knew.

Heck.... I knew. And I'm just a content ol' Sox fan.

Where there is smoke, there is always fire.

gbergman
03-08-2006, 06:13 PM
Selig is a bum, he needs to be replaced

MUsoxfan
03-08-2006, 06:16 PM
I may be in the minority here, but I've always loved David Wells for being so open and honest. I also have to agree with most of what he says

kevin57
03-08-2006, 07:31 PM
I don't think that Selig's demise is predestined. He could seize the moment and salvage himself (and the game). I do not predict that will happen. A lot will depend on the "princes" of the sport (i.e., the owners). BS will take his cue from them. If they are smart :roflmao: , they'll read the tea leaves and do something dramatic. If not, BS will be their fallguy.

Ol' No. 2
03-08-2006, 07:41 PM
I don't think that Selig's demise is predestined. He could seize the moment and salvage himself (and the game). I do not predict that will happen. A lot will depend on the "princes" of the sport (i.e., the owners). BS will take his cue from them. If they are smart :roflmao: , they'll read the tea leaves and do something dramatic. If not, BS will be their fallguy.The more I've thought about it, the more sure I am that Selig's days are numbered. It's got nothing to do with whether the owners are smart. The train has jumped the tracks and is out of their control now. They'll throw Selig in front of it in hopes of deflecting attention from themselves.

Daver
03-08-2006, 07:56 PM
Bud Selig is a stooge - nothing more nothing less. He does what is told and what was good for his small market Brewers / the midwest cabal who will install Andy MacPhail in 2009 as the next commissioner.

Positives - he created a multi billion $ internet site / media (not funded by taxpayers!), he led the multi billion $ stadium extortion racket (great for owners / players, not so much for taxpayers), he helped grow baseball's outreach internationally and has put the league's money where its mouth is with minority outreach in management (and I am not a "PC" type of guy but I do think people need to have the opportunities to get in their foot in the door at the lower levels (such as Kenny's first jobs with the White Sox) so they can prove they have the talent to succeed).

Negatives - 1994, trying to contract Minnesota (quid pro quo for his loans from Pohlad which are against MLB rules - the same rules he was "hired to enforce") and Montreal (and the subsequent mess), the steroid scandal where he put his head in the sand for 15 years and hoped it went away until he lied in front of congress one too many times and was finally forced to put the bare minimum testing plan (which by the way will still not detect HGH, the clear, the cream or anything else BALCO like companies are working on).

Bud Selig is a liar (used car dealing skills do come in handy), but he lies for the good of the owners which is why they continue to extend his contract. I don't know if baseball ever had or will have (or wants) a decent commissioner nor do I expect one as long as I am alive.



If Bud is a stooge, how did he manage to bring all of the power that MLB bears into his sole possesion, without a peep from the owners or the MLBPA? He did away with the league presidents, and the power they had, because they were a threat to his power base, and did it so sublety that not one owner complained, and then set his own puppet as the discipline enforcer of MLB.

Then he broke the umpires union, and set the rules for the new union so that they answer to his office, and his office only, and made it look like he was doing the game a service, and he did it with the help of the umpires themselves.

His finest piece of work will remain using the media and the court of public opinion to force the MLBPA to agree to a deal that puts a luxury tax on top of the revenue sharing the leauge already had, and making himself the sole decision maker in how that money gets dispersed. It is doled out at the discretion of the league office, which consists of Bud, since the league presidents no longer exist.

Bud Selig has accomplished what no previous commisioner has, he has made himself the sole decision maker for the league.

Not bad for a stooge.

SouthSide_HitMen
03-08-2006, 08:14 PM
If Bud is a stooge, how did he manage to bring all of the power that MLB bears into his sole possesion, without a peep from the owners or the MLBPA? He did away with the league presidents, and the power they had, because they were a threat to his power base, and did it so sublety that not one owner complained, and then set his own puppet as the discipline enforcer of MLB.

Then he broke the umpires union, and set the rules for the new union so that they answer to his office, and his office only, and made it look like he was doing the game a service, and he did it with the help of the umpires themselves.

His finest piece of work will remain using the media and the court of public opinion to force the MLBPA to agree to a deal that puts a luxury tax on top of the revenue sharing the leauge already had, and making himself the sole decision maker in how that money gets dispersed. It is doled out at the discretion of the league office, which consists of Bud, since the league presidents no longer exist.

Bud Selig has accomplished what no previous commisioner has, he has made himself the sole decision maker for the league.

Not bad for a stooge.

I think 1994 followed by the several billion $s obtained in stadium government financing deals had a bigger impact on the game than the luxury tax but I do agree his "work" regarding the destruction of the separate league offices and umpire union were also important (and not listed by me earlier). What is subject for debate is how much of this was Bud's idea / doing and how much of this was pushed for by the owners who installed him.

:reinsy

Yes, I have read Machiavelli. Why do you ask?

Daver
03-08-2006, 08:33 PM
I think 1994 followed by the several billion $s obtained in stadium government financing deals had a bigger impact on the game than the luxury tax but I do agree his "work" regarding the destruction of the separate league offices and umpire union were also important (and not listed by me earlier). What is subject for debate is how much of this was Bud's idea / doing and how much of this was pushed for by the owners who installed him.

:reinsy

Yes, I have read Machiavelli. Why do you ask?

Should we also discuss the topic of being found guilty of collusion, and how Bud used league expansion, and the fees generated by it to pay off the judjement leveled against MLB by the courts?

Is he a puppet of the owners, or vice versa?

Not one owner volunteered to sit on the stand in front of congress and take the heat, and when all is said and done, Bud did it, and came out looking like a hero in the end, because he forced the MLBPA to back down yet again.

RKMeibalane
03-08-2006, 10:08 PM
I may be in the minority here, but I've always loved David Wells for being so open and honest. I also have to agree with most of what he says

I don't like him, but I agree completely with everything he said about Selig. The man has been awful as comissioner, allowing Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, and countless others to get away cheating while he worries about putting together a pointless exhibition tournament. It's only a matter of time before someone gets hurt. I can't wait to hear Selig justify having the tournament, even after players suffer season-ending injuries that drastically affect the fourtunes of their resptive teams. It's going to happen.

Looking at this problem from another angle, I have the impression that Selig is terrified of "getting his hands dirty." He seems content to allow other people to do his dirty work for him, letting them take the fall when things go wrong. However, that strategy hasn't worked for him recently, as most of his henchmen have grown tired of taking the blame for his mistakes. Maybe it's just the era we live in, but I don't think there has ever been a time when so many sports executives and officials were so incapable of doing their jobs properly. Selig is a joke: Stern is no better. Bettman was a disaster for the NHL, which will never be the same again. Tagliabue has been the best of the four, but even the NFL is having labor difficulties now.

Rooney4Prez56
03-09-2006, 11:25 AM
If I was in Selig's shoes, I would have decided to banish every player who ever took steroids, saw someone taking them and didn't report it, and every trainer who provided steroids.

But I wasn't.

Selig made a huge mistake, and he's going to pay for it like baseball is.