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View Full Version : Sox Acquire Cintron


Discinfool23
03-08-2006, 10:35 AM
Hey guys, I checked the site and didn't see it anywhere. Just saw on Whitesox.com that we got Cintron for Bajenaru. I love the deal, but isn't that what we got Rob Mac for? Where is he gonna play?

Link: http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20060308&content_id=1340024&vkey=pr_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Jason M

ChiSoxGirl
03-08-2006, 10:37 AM
Hey guys, I checked the site and didn't see it anywhere. Just saw on Whitesox.com that we got Cintron for Bajenaru. I love the deal, but isn't that what we got Rob Mac for? Where is he gonna play?

Link: http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20060308&content_id=1340024&vkey=pr_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Jason M

Another Wednesday deal!

ThinWhiteDuque
03-08-2006, 10:41 AM
This might be the most impressive trade KW's ever made, and I'm not kidding. Basically, he acquired a championship-quality utility guy for a spare middle reliever with journeyman stuff.

Fantastic job KW! :supernana:


However, does this now mean that Rob M is slated to play CF on an everyday basis?

TheOldRoman
03-08-2006, 10:42 AM
:supernana::supernana::supernana:

Somewhere, WhiteSoxJosh is smiling.

Cintron is a solid player, this only adds to our great bench. Great move by Kenny.

SOecks
03-08-2006, 10:43 AM
I just heard this on ESPN 1000. Why did they do this? Baj was looking decent and we need relief backup just in case someone goes down this year. Strange it happens on a Wed though again.

Ol' No. 2
03-08-2006, 10:43 AM
Hey guys, I checked the site and didn't see it anywhere. Just saw on Whitesox.com that we got Cintron for Bajenaru. I love the deal, but isn't that what we got Rob Mac for? Where is he gonna play?

Link: http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20060308&content_id=1340024&vkey=pr_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Jason MI'm thinking maybe they want to use Mackowiak primarily as OF/3B. Ozuna is not really that good defensively, so Cintron could be the utility IF guy. Assuming they bring 11 pitchers north, that leaves 5 bench spots:

Mackowiak
Ozuna
Widger
????
????

I'd assume Cintron will take one of those bench spots.

Dan Mega
03-08-2006, 10:43 AM
I like it! I don't think Bajenaru would pan out anyway. Win/win for the Sox.

Huisj
03-08-2006, 10:44 AM
:supernana::supernana::supernana:

Somewhere, WhiteSoxJosh is smiling.

Cintron is a solid player, this only adds to our great bench. Great move by Kenny.

What does this mean for Ozuna? Seems like Cintron plays the same spots as him. They can't carry Mackowiac, Cintron, and Ozuna all on the same roster, can they? Or does this mean that Mackowiac will be more of an outfielder and that Borchard/Gload are off?

samram
03-08-2006, 10:45 AM
Hey guys, I checked the site and didn't see it anywhere. Just saw on Whitesox.com that we got Cintron for Bajenaru. I love the deal, but isn't that what we got Rob Mac for? Where is he gonna play?

Link: http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20060308&content_id=1340024&vkey=pr_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Jason M

There's no rule that says you can't have two guys that can play several positions. With Ozuna, Mackowiak, and Cintron, you cover pretty much every position and they can each play most of them. This allows Ozzie a lot of flexibility in being able to match up bench players with opposing pitchers when he wants to give someone a day off. Plus, Thome can always play 1B for a day to give PK a breather. Obviously, this means the end for either Borchard or Gload since I think Cintron is better than either of them. Good deal, just makes a good bench even better.

skottyj242
03-08-2006, 10:46 AM
Gload......Ross Gload.

oeo
03-08-2006, 10:47 AM
There's no rule that says you can't have two guys that can play several positions. With Ozuna, Mackowiak, and Cintron, you cover pretty much every position and they can each play most of them. This allows Ozzie a lot of flexibility in being able to match up bench players with opposing pitchers when he wants to give someone a day off. Plus, Thome can always play 1B for a day to give PK a breather. Obviously, this means the end for either Borchard or Gload since I think Cintron is better than either of them. Good deal, just makes a good bench even better.

For sure...and if Gload makes the team over Borchard, he can back up Paulie at first base as well. This is an amazing deal, our bench is stacked.

Unregistered
03-08-2006, 10:49 AM
I always thought Cintron was a great, speedy utility guy. I know there's been rumblings about KW trying to get him for a little while (a la Mackowiak), so I'm glad he finally ended up on the Sox.

I didn't really have a ton of confidence in Baj anyway, and I trust the Sox staff knows better than we do if the guy is expendable in the middle of a fight for bullpen spots.

RoobarbPie
03-08-2006, 10:54 AM
Kenny is probably thinking that he's "buying low" here.

Didn't he try to acquire Cintron two years ago with no success because AZ was asking too much? I know he's been on Kenny's radar for a while, but I don't think he expected to get him for a minor leaguer. AZ is stacked in the minors with players that Cintron would block in the future, so it's a good deal for them too.

Not a bad deal as long as the Sox didn't think Baj would make the opening day roster.

TheOldRoman
03-08-2006, 10:55 AM
What does this mean for Ozuna? Seems like Cintron plays the same spots as him. They can't carry Mackowiac, Cintron, and Ozuna all on the same roster, can they? Or does this mean that Mackowiac will be more of an outfielder and that Borchard/Gload are off?
Well, both Mackowiak and Ozuna can play OF. Plus, it is great to have come DEPTH. If we have injuries to the entire infield, we can put Mackowiak at 3rd, Cintron at SS, and Ozuna at 2nd. You can never have enough depth.

Ol' No. 2
03-08-2006, 10:55 AM
I always thought Cintron was a great, speedy utility guy. I know there's been rumblings about KW trying to get him for a little while (a la Mackowiak), so I'm glad he finally ended up on the Sox.

I didn't really have a ton of confidence in Baj anyway, and I trust the Sox staff knows better than we do if the guy is expendable in the middle of a fight for bullpen spots.Right now the White Sox system is full of guys like Bajenaru, who is looking like a AAAA pitcher. There is nowhere for these guys to go, so if they can bring some value in trade, go get 'em, Kenny.

Iwritecode
03-08-2006, 10:56 AM
Obviously, this means the end for either Borchard or Gload since I think Cintron is better than either of them.

My thoughts exactly. Borchard's days are numbered.

komando
03-08-2006, 10:57 AM
well now I feel even dumber for purchasing that bajenaru jersey at the garage sale at sox fest :)

MarySwiss
03-08-2006, 10:57 AM
I love this trade! Looks to me like Kenny is making sure we're protected against injury. This is also probably good for Baj; the D'Backs need pitching.

As I get ready to head over to Tempe Diablo for today's game, I am one happy camper! :D:

AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T RAIN!!! (10% chance) :mad:

Baby Fisk
03-08-2006, 11:02 AM
Right now the White Sox system is full of guys like Bajenaru, who is looking like a AAAA pitcher. There is nowhere for these guys to go, so if they can bring some value in trade, go get 'em, Kenny.
Great first post for the Bajenaru Tribute Thread, Mr. Fox. :thumbsup:

That Baj, he sure gave good trade value. He will be missed! Good luck in AZ you fella! Knock 'em dead big guy!

ondafarm
03-08-2006, 11:04 AM
An interesting trade. It does solidify the infield utility with someone who really can play SS. I'm not sure either Gload or Borchard should be comfortable this ST. Ozuna will also be pushed. As for Baj, at 28 he wasn't going to make it with the Sox anyways, good for him.

sullythered
03-08-2006, 11:04 AM
This is an awesome trade. Cintron would be a passable starting infielder on a ton of teams. Baj, unfortunately, looks like a AAAA guy.

Rocky Soprano
03-08-2006, 11:06 AM
I've always been a fan of Cintron, so I like the move.
:bandance:

Hangar18
03-08-2006, 11:06 AM
My thoughts exactly. Borchard's days are numbered.

Yup, thats what Im thinking. Cintron is very very FAST and he makes up for the loss of Harris' speed, so were back up on that end. Ozuna was very surprisingly good defensively, so having Ozuna and Cintron off the bench is good by me

SouthSide_HitMen
03-08-2006, 11:07 AM
What does this mean for Ozuna? Seems like Cintron plays the same spots as him. They can't carry Mackowiac, Cintron, and Ozuna all on the same roster, can they? Or does this mean that Mackowiac will be more of an outfielder and that Borchard/Gload are off?

1. Ozuna stays.
2. Yes they can (carry Mackowiak, Cintron and Ozuna) and will.
3. One of the two (Borchard or Gload) are gone.

The White Sox will bring up 5 bench position players but at some point may / will go to 4 bench players and this gives them more flexability. So you remember when Kenny Williams was scrambling to see if they could activate Ozzie in a game Dye ended up playing shortstop late in the game against Oakland - the Joe Crede ejection game? This solves that.

Gload is probably the one who walks. Neither are as good as Cintron. Bajenaru is 28, not a prospect. He reached AAA in the tail end of his age 26 season. I wouldn't expect much from him on the ML level.

Bravo Kenny. Now get a lefty reliever and some Budweiser and I'm ready for Opening Day.

SOecks
03-08-2006, 11:08 AM
Yup, thats what Im thinking. Cintron is very very FAST and he makes up for the loss of Harris' speed, so were back up on that end. Ozuna was very surprisingly good defensively, so having Ozuna and Cintron off the bench is good by me

It also gives you Cintron AND Ozuna as late inning pinch running duty to spell either Konerko, Thome, or Crede. Ozuna had some very nice steals last year so this gives a lot of versatility in close games.

Jjav829
03-08-2006, 11:09 AM
Nice move. Cintron is a good bench player. This certainly puts some pressure on Ozuna. After this move, I don't think he has a guaranteed spot on the roster.

ChiWavDave
03-08-2006, 11:11 AM
With all due respect to the Bangles ....

Just another WhiteSox Wednesday...

Man I wanna job where I make bazillions, everybody loves me, ultimate job security from JR, and I only have to produce 1 day a week...

Great Job Kenny, Keep em coming...

:bandance: :bandance: :bandance:

White Sox Randy
03-08-2006, 11:12 AM
1. The Sox give up nothing since Baj would only be filler if they kept him anyway. He doesn't have what it takes to have much success at this level.

2. Ozzie wants more speed and versatility - now he has it.

3. This must mean that they will keep 11 pitchers.

4. Borchard or Gload is gone.

D. TODD
03-08-2006, 11:14 AM
Very nice pick up! I see Gload as being gone. He can not play anywhere but 1st, and with Konerko, Thome, & Mac all being better options, I think his days as part of the Sox are over.

infohawk
03-08-2006, 11:18 AM
I love this trade! Looks to me like Kenny is making sure we're protected against injury.

I think this is exactly right. I think KW realizes the greatest threat to a repeat is injury, so he is hedging against it. He may also be acquiring some depth in the event a trade becomes available where another team needs an infielder.

patbooyah
03-08-2006, 11:20 AM
maybe gload will be a part of some package that gets the sox a lefty for the pen. in his only season with over 50 ABs (234ABs in 2004) he hit .321. that has to be appealing for somebody.

Lip Man 1
03-08-2006, 11:21 AM
Great move...this is called geting something for nothing.

Lip

SOecks
03-08-2006, 11:24 AM
Does anyone know Cintron's contract situation in terms of price and length left?

NonetheLoaiza
03-08-2006, 11:25 AM
Just reiterating the fact that this is a great deal. Ozzie has alot of players on that bench that are going to look good. The only thing that might be a bit of a concern, I would think is the lack of power, maybe, on the bench. Either Borchard or Gload is gone, and my feeling is Gload, since Borchard is a switch hitter with some pop (when he doesn't strike out). Great deal for the Sox though. Kenny is doing everything he can to make this team better, and I know us Sox fans appreciate that.

miker
03-08-2006, 11:26 AM
We traded for a lemon/lime flavored vodka? :?:

Iwritecode
03-08-2006, 11:27 AM
Very nice pick up! I see Gload as being gone. He can not play anywhere but 1st, and with Konerko, Thome, & Mac all being better options, I think his days as part of the Sox are over.

I always thought Gload was better defensively (at first) than any of those three.

Is Borchard better defensively (in the outfield) than Ozuna, Mac, or Gload?

Iwritecode
03-08-2006, 11:28 AM
Does anyone know Cintron's contract situation in terms of price and length left?

one-year $1.6 million

DaleJRFan
03-08-2006, 11:29 AM
This is frickin' awesome. I'm a big fan of Cintron's game. Solid D, a career 280 average with a bit of power, switch-hitter. Can play the middle infield positions well....

And what did we give up? A career minor league reliever who wasn't going to make the team anyway? AWESOME.

I love KW Wednesdays. :cool:

Chisox003
03-08-2006, 11:31 AM
Outstanding move.

That is all.

:gulp:

TomBradley72
03-08-2006, 11:34 AM
If Gload's shoulder is healthy enough for him to play OF....you can start up the Joe Borchard appreciation thread. Borchard as a bench guy doesn't seem to fit w/Ozzieball. Gload would offer OF/1B flexibility and minimize the need to put Thome in the field when resting Konerko.

NonetheLoaiza
03-08-2006, 11:36 AM
If Gload's shoulder is healthy enough for him to play OF....you can start up the Joe Borchard appreciation thread. Borchard as a bench guy doesn't seem to fit w/Ozzieball. Gload would offer OF/1B flexibility and minimize the need to put Thome in the field when resting Konerko.

Ozuna would play the outfield before Gload. Gload is just brutal in the corner positions. So, that means, he would be kept at a 1B. The Sox don't need another one with Thome, Konerko, and Mack on the roster. I just think that with the power that Borchard could possibly provide, he would make the roster before Gload. But that's just my opinion, and why I am not a GM or manager.

Iwritecode
03-08-2006, 11:37 AM
If Gload's shoulder is healthy enough for him to play OF....you can start up the Joe Borchard appreciation thread. Borchard as a bench guy doesn't seem to fit w/Ozzieball. Gload would offer OF/1B flexibility and minimize the need to put Thome in the field when resting Konerko.

If you really stop and think about it, Thome probably couldn't be a late-inning defensive replacement for Konerko since he'll be DHing most of the time. I'm pretty sure it'll be Gload that stays.

Chicken Dinner
03-08-2006, 11:38 AM
I like this move a lot!!! Bye Joe

batmanZoSo
03-08-2006, 11:39 AM
Wow, what a great pickup. This is a very impressive bench for an AL team. Hell, it was before this move, but now we're just stacked. This is a pretty good player, he batted .317 with 13 homers in 2003. Career .279 hitter. We're covered in all aspects of the game. No weaknesses and can even sustain a few injuries--god forbid--with this bench.

Minnie Me
03-08-2006, 11:40 AM
Cintron was given the starting ss job hitting 4th for the snakes in 2004. He could not hold the starting job. Average SS at best.
The Sox may have the most extensive multi-position bench in the Majors now. Just think was Jerry Manual could have done with this bunch.

Bobbo35
03-08-2006, 11:45 AM
Definately a great move by Kenny. I like the way Cintron plays. Nice, Nice, Nice!!!!

Randar68
03-08-2006, 11:47 AM
Anyone gonna pack Gload's bags for him? We now have about 4 people who could play 1B.

Borchard can play all 3 OF spots.

Chisox003
03-08-2006, 11:55 AM
Ozuna - 3B, SS, 2B
Mack - IF/OF
Widge - C, 3B
Cintron - IF
????

That's one helluva versatile bench. All those guys can hit, but more importantly throw some leather too.

April 2 can't get here soon enough

Randar68
03-08-2006, 11:57 AM
Ozuna - 3B, SS, 2B
Mack - IF/OF
Widge - C, 3B
Cintron - IF
????

That's one helluva versatile bench. All those guys can hit, but more importantly throw some leather too.

April 2 can't get here soon enough

Ozuna and Mack could also play 1B. Another utility OF'er that isn't a liability = Borchard. Gload is a hack in the OF.

voodoochile
03-08-2006, 11:59 AM
It's the little moves that keep coming that impress me most about KW. Gload or Borchard might bring some help for the bullpen if packaged with a minor league pitcher and whoever is left gets the bench spot.

Way to go KW...:)

Iwritecode
03-08-2006, 11:59 AM
Anyone gonna pack Gload's bags for him? We now have about 4 people who could play 1B.

Borchard can play all 3 OF spots.

What's your opinion on this? Is Gload better or worse defensively at first than any of the other replacements (not counting Thome)?

Is Borchard better overall than any of the other bench players including Gload? I'm specifically looking at his sub .200 batting average.

mjharrison72
03-08-2006, 12:01 PM
Cintron was given the starting ss job hitting 4th for the snakes in 2004. He could not hold the starting job. Average SS at best.
The Sox may have the most extensive multi-position bench in the Majors now. Just think was Jerry Manual could have done with this bunch.
I'd be absolutely blown away if you could find a game in which Cintron hit cleanup for the D-Backs in 2004.

Face it: Cintron is quicker than Willie Harris, swings a better bat than Willie Harris, swings from both sides of the plate (Harris did not), plays a better 2B than Harris, and plays a better SS than Harris. He's just like having Willie Harris on our team, except WAY better. :cool:

Randar68
03-08-2006, 12:03 PM
What's your opinion on this? Is Gload better or worse defensively at first than any of the other replacements (not counting Thome)?

Is Borchard better overall than any of the other bench players including Gload? I'm specifically looking at his sub .200 batting average.

Well, you already have 2 "more than adequate" defensive 1B in your everyday lineup. Do you really need ANOTHER backup at 1B? Mack and Ozuna can both play there a few games if needed.

Gload's defense at 1st is almost irrelevant. It will take a catastrophe for anyone to be playing more than a game here or there at 1B and is Gload worth keeping around for that?

Borchard can play all 3 OF spots very well. I don't think there's any need for Gload.

TomBradley72
03-08-2006, 12:05 PM
Face it: Cintron is quicker than Willie Harris, swings a better bat than Willie Harris, swings from both sides of the plate (Harris did not), plays a better 2B than Harris, and plays a better SS than Harris. He's just like having Willie Harris on our team, except WAY better. :cool:

Bafiarocks is going to go NUTS about this post! :cool:

NonetheLoaiza
03-08-2006, 12:06 PM
It's the little moves that keep coming that impress me most about KW. Gload or Borchard might bring some help for the bullpen if packaged with a minor league pitcher and whoever is left gets the bench spot.

Way to go KW...:)

Very right. I know we give KW alot of credit for the moves he has made, and I know the media is starting to see what KW is doing. Getting Thome was a good move, and alot of people think that was his big move this offseason, but IMO, his bigger moves have been Mack and Cintron. I was absolutely ecstatic to hear about Mack, and I'm just as happy seeing we got Cintron.

Plus, having a guy like Widger who could pretty much play any position he wanted to doesn't hurt either. The Chris Widger Show is my hero.

mjharrison72
03-08-2006, 12:07 PM
Bafiarocks is going to go NUTS about this post! :cool:
I will say Willie has Alex on looks.
http://www.azcentral.com/lavoz/deportes/diamondbacks/gifs/cintron.jpg
"But looks don't steal bases or make clean putouts."

spiffie
03-08-2006, 12:08 PM
I'd be absolutely blown away if you could find a game in which Cintron hit cleanup for the D-Backs in 2004.

Face it: Cintron is quicker than Willie Harris, swings a better bat than Willie Harris, swings from both sides of the plate (Harris did not), plays a better 2B than Harris, and plays a better SS than Harris. He's just like having Willie Harris on our team, except WAY better. :cool:
According to retrosheet Cintron batted in every position player batting spot except 1st and 4th in 2004.

Iwritecode
03-08-2006, 12:09 PM
Gload's defense at 1st is almost irrelevant. It will take a catastrophe for anyone to be playing more than a game here or there at 1B and is Gload worth keeping around for that?

I guess I'm thinking worst-case scenario. If either Konerko or Thome go down for any reason, we could be in trouble at either 1b or DH.

I'm glad I don't have to make the decision on who to keep. :cool:

hosieryofthegods
03-08-2006, 12:11 PM
The Sox may have the most extensive multi-position bench in the Majors now. Just think was Jerry Manual could have done with this bunch. :jerry Did somebody say tinker?

hold2dibber
03-08-2006, 12:11 PM
Incredible trade. So here's who the Sox have lost from the team that celebrated on the field in Houston:

Everett
Rowand
Timo
Harris
Vizcaino
El Duque
Blum
Marte

Who have been replaced with:

Thome
Anderson
Mackowiak
Cintron
McCarthy
Vazquez
Gload/Borchard
Munoz or one of those other lefty guys

HUGE overall upgrade, IMO. I'm still worried about the bullpen, but damn what an incredible job KW has done to position this team for another run.

mjharrison72
03-08-2006, 12:13 PM
According to retrosheet Cintron batted in every position player batting spot except 1st and 4th in 2004.
So what you're saying is... Mike is right again? :bandance:

He does appear to have two career ABs from the cleanup spot. Jermaine Dye once played SS, too.:rolleyes:

gobears1987
03-08-2006, 12:19 PM
It's been a while since we had something on Wednesday

rdivaldi
03-08-2006, 12:20 PM
Outstanding move by KW. I have no idea what Arizona was thinking with that one. Could be a case of sabre-itis by someone in their front office.

Brian26
03-08-2006, 12:23 PM
Another Wednesday deal!

Also another guy that KW was coveting for years and finally picked up. It seems like once KW wants a guy, he'll find a way to get him, even if it takes a couple of seasons.

Ol' No. 2
03-08-2006, 12:25 PM
Also another guy that KW was coveting for years and finally picked up. It seems like once KW wants a guy, he'll find a way to get him, even if it takes a couple of seasons.How much longer until Abreu is wearing Sox black and white?

Brian26
03-08-2006, 12:26 PM
How much longer until Abreu is wearing Sox black and white?

I'm hoping that KW still doesn't want Cory Lidle though :D:

Law11
03-08-2006, 12:28 PM
Can you imagine being Cintron right now. Playing in the WBC then when it ends having 2 weeks to find his way onto the team then having to find somewhere to live and get adjusted to Chicago in April...

Thats gotta be crazy..

D. TODD
03-08-2006, 12:29 PM
I always thought Gload was better defensively (at first) than any of those three.

Is Borchard better defensively (in the outfield) than Ozuna, Mac, or Gload? Borchard is better then Ozuna and Gload has no business EVER being in the outfield.. I'm no Borchard supporter, but at this point with this current roster I see NO place for Gload.

Brian26
03-08-2006, 12:31 PM
Borchard is better then Ozuna

Borchard has not proven he is better than Ozuna. The only thing Borchard has over Ozuna is potential, and that's just about run out.

Ol' No. 2
03-08-2006, 12:32 PM
Can you imagine being Cintron right now. Playing in the WBC then when it ends having 2 weeks to find his way onto the team then having to find somewhere to live and get adjusted to Chicago in April...

Thats gotta be crazy..I'm pretty sure getting traded to the defending World Series Champions will soften the blow somewhat.:cool:

Unregistered
03-08-2006, 12:33 PM
Borchard has not proven he is better than Ozuna. The only thing Borchard has over Ozuna is potential, and that's just about run out.And strikeouts. Sweet, sweet strikeouts.

Gammons Peter
03-08-2006, 12:33 PM
Whats with all the "he's fast" talk, and comparisons to Willie Harris????
Anyone look at his stolen base totals.... He has 10...in 7 years. Jim Thome had 15 in his first 7 years.

D. TODD
03-08-2006, 12:34 PM
Borchard has not proven he is better than Ozuna. The only thing Borchard has over Ozuna is potential, and that's just about run out. I meant as a defensive outfielder. Not overall. I was answering the question about who was better in the outfield defensively. Sorry about any confusion.:D:

Taliesinrk
03-08-2006, 12:35 PM
I guess I'm thinking worst-case scenario. If either Konerko or Thome go down for any reason, we could be in trouble at either 1b or DH.

I'm glad I don't have to make the decision on who to keep. :cool:

You're joking right. That problem's already covered. If one goes down we deal for THE BIG HURT!!! And please people... don't jump on me here.. I'm half-joking..

Iwritecode
03-08-2006, 12:35 PM
Whats with all the "he's fast" talk, and comparisons to Willie Harris????
Anyone look at his stolen base totals.... He has 10...in 7 years. Jim Thome had 15 in his first 7 years.

Willie Harris is fast. He's just never figured out how to use all that speed to steal bases.

spiffie
03-08-2006, 12:38 PM
Whats with all the "he's fast" talk, and comparisons to Willie Harris????
Anyone look at his stolen base totals.... He has 10...in 7 years. Jim Thome had 15 in his first 7 years.
Yes, and in two of the last three years he would have been our team leader in triples with his stats. Speed and SB's do not necessarily correlate, or else Willie Harris would have been Scott Podsednik.

D. TODD
03-08-2006, 12:38 PM
Willie Harris is fast. He's just never figured out how to use all that speed to steal bases. True, he has a great steal percentage, but never did utilize his speed enough to be a consistent threat to swipe bases.

TaylorStSox
03-08-2006, 12:40 PM
I like this move. Cintron's the perfect guy to come off the bench in late inning situations.

IMO, Gload's probably the odd man out. While he may be more valuable than LTP, he hasn't been the model player. He's done alot of crying over the last year. LTP's better defensively. He's a switch hitter. He has more power and speed. I think it's his job to lose.

Baby Fisk
03-08-2006, 12:40 PM
Yes, and in two of the last three years he would have been our team leader in triples with his stats. Speed and SB's do not necessarily correlate, or else Willie Harris would have been Scott Podsednik.
Dude, stop yourself. Listen to what you're saying. It's March and we still have threads arguing the pro's and con's of Willie Harris. There has been scant mention of Aaron Rowand here for weeks, but every day it's still Willie Harris reruns.

Why is that? :?:

Taliesinrk
03-08-2006, 12:41 PM
Oh yeah.. I forgot to give props to whomever I read yesterday that posted something like, "I'm very disapointed in the competition for the final bench spot... KW always made little moves that impressed me more than anything and was maybe the biggest reason we were winners... etc".

Irony?? I think not..

Gammons Peter
03-08-2006, 12:41 PM
I'm saying Willie was fast and could steal a base. Cintron is not and can not

White Sox Randy
03-08-2006, 12:41 PM
who has more trade value now, Borchard or Gload ?

Maybe one of them is about to be traded.

Maybe we package one of them with Ozuna or Cintron for a bullpen guy ?

How many teams might look at Borchard as a starter in RF or LF ?

KRS1
03-08-2006, 12:42 PM
Good move by KW. One of my friends down here is absolutely ovsessed with Cintron, he thought he should be the opening day SS if Drew isn't ready. He has been talking him up since he was supposed to be the NL ROY a few years back. Cant wait to talk to him. It seems like the team never had any faith in him though, bringing in guys like Predator, and Counsel to play there. Ive said this in a couple threads, and I truly believe Kenny has been trying to move Baj each of the last three seasons to no avail, and that was the reason he kept him in AAA, to inflate his numbers. Now that Baj had the one good outing we were waiting for a couple days ago(against scrubs), his value finally shot up enough to the point we could get something of value in return for him.

Man, AZ is going to rock his world the way fly balls just don't come down in Chase Field. He should keep doing the same thing, nibbling outside with tthat slider, because if it's over the plate he's asking for trouble. I think they gave up a sure thing utility guy for a risky medium ceiling reliever, which is fine by me.

TaylorStSox
03-08-2006, 12:42 PM
who has more trade value now, Borchard or Gload ?

Maybe one of them is about to be traded.

Maybe we package one of them with Ozuna or Cintron for a bullpen guy ?

How many teams might look at Borchard as a starter in RF or LF ?


Neither.

goon
03-08-2006, 12:46 PM
i love waking up to good news... at 12:30.

samram
03-08-2006, 12:48 PM
Cintron was given the starting ss job hitting 4th for the snakes in 2004. He could not hold the starting job. Average SS at best.
The Sox may have the most extensive multi-position bench in the Majors now. Just think was Jerry Manual could have done with this bunch.

Mrs. Harris, we're sorry that Willie has been replaced by superior talents. I'm sure he'll make a fine career in Boston or Colorado or both as a fifth man off the bench.

Stroker Ace
03-08-2006, 12:50 PM
Good pickup. You can't have too much depth.

KRS1
03-08-2006, 12:51 PM
who has more trade value now, Borchard or Gload ?

Maybe one of them is about to be traded.

Maybe we package one of them with Ozuna or Cintron for a bullpen guy ?

How many teams might look at Borchard as a starter in RF or LF ?
Jim Bowden will eventually take a flyer on anyone who has shown ANY potential, or whom was valued highly at some point in his career. Jose Guillen is hurt, so they would probably be Kenny's first call.

The Dodgers OF is pretty bad if Ethier is in fact hurt. They currently are looking at Cruz Jr., Lofton, and Drew as their OF. Out of those three, Drew, is the only good one, but he is hurt more often than not. Maybe they would take Borchard off our hands.

BeviBall!
03-08-2006, 12:57 PM
Another solid trade for KW. As a GM, he is at the top of his game.

Minnie Me
03-08-2006, 12:58 PM
My bad, I meant Cintron started the year batting fifth not fourth.
As for Cintron being better than Harris, I would agree. He has much more power, and can play all infield positions which Harris refused to do. Harris was a bust in his CF attempt so he was no value in the OF either.
So replacing Harris with Cintron is a huge upgrade both at the plate and in the field.
Cintron is also better insurance than Harris or Ozuna at 2nd if Tadahito has a sophmore slumb which is a real possiblity and why we probably made this deal. Cintron could end up with the majority of playing time at 2nd this year for the Sox.

KRS1
03-08-2006, 01:02 PM
My bad, I meant Cintron started the year batting fifth not fourth.
As for Cintron being better than Harris, I would agree. He has much more power, and can play all infield positions which Harris refused to do. Harris was a bust in his CF attempt so he was no value in the OF either.
So replacing Harris with Cintron is a huge upgrade both at the plate and in the field.
Cintron is also better insurance than Harris or Ozuna at 2nd if Tadahito has a sophmore slumb which is a real possiblity and why we probably made this deal. Cintron could end up with the majority of playing time at 2nd this year for the Sox.

Don't even start this talk.....

voodoochile
03-08-2006, 01:03 PM
My bad, I meant Cintron started the year batting fifth not fourth.
As for Cintron being better than Harris, I would agree. He has much more power, and can play all infield positions which Harris refused to do. Harris was a bust in his CF attempt so he was no value in the OF either.
So replacing Harris with Cintron is a huge upgrade both at the plate and in the field.
Cintron is also better insurance than Harris or Ozuna at 2nd if Tadahito has a sophmore slumb which is a real possiblity and why we probably made this deal. Cintron could end up with the majority of playing time at 2nd this year for the Sox.

IF Iguchi were really a sophmore you might be on to something, but he's not. He's been playing high level pro ball for a while now. I think he is going to be just fine. If anything I expect his power numbers to increase and his average to climb too now that he is no longer hitting second.

Lillian
03-08-2006, 01:03 PM
Look at Cintron's split stats. In his short career, he appears to hit lefties very well. He may get quite a lot of starts against southpaws. He is a switch hitter, but has very impressive stats hitting right handed. His low strike out total is especially note worthy. If he is really as good defensively, as most of you suggest, he is indeed a very capable player to be sitting on the bench.

Fake Chet Lemon
03-08-2006, 01:07 PM
Outstanding move by KW. I have no idea what Arizona was thinking with that one. Could be a case of sabre-itis by someone in their front office.

Agree, is this a salary dump?

ondafarm
03-08-2006, 01:08 PM
. . . Speed and SB's do not necessarily correlate, or else Willie Harris would have been Scott Podsednik. . .

Speed is a neccesary, but not a sufficient condition, for stealing bases. Intelligence and skill in reading pitchers and even catchers is also needed.
Knowing the mechanics is also needed, Chris Singleton had good speed but wasted his first step and really got below average jumps to boot. He was a poor base-stealer.

Pre-knee surgery, I had a 20 SB season from the catcher's position. That was considered very good in that league.

ondafarm
03-08-2006, 01:10 PM
IF Iguchi were really a sophmore you might be on to something, but he's not. He's been playing high level pro ball for a while now. I think he is going to be just fine. If anything I expect his power numbers to increase and his average to climb too now that he is no longer hitting second.

A second time thru the league facing mostly the same pitchers again won't hurt either.

santo=dorf
03-08-2006, 01:10 PM
Baj was looking decent and we need relief backup just in case someone goes down this year.
The guy frickin sucks at the major league level. He has also been brutal this spring training.

RoobarbPie
03-08-2006, 01:11 PM
I don't know if spiffie has some anti-Willie history or not, but I agree with the main point in his post. Cintron has to have good speed or else he would not have posted good triples numbers in 2003 and 2004. Triples are usually a good indicator of someone being fast enough to turn a double into another base. Maybe Cintron is bad at reading pitchers and getting jumps, I don't know.....

FWIW, ESPN player scouting reports say that regarding baserunning he is: "Instinctive And Knows How To Run The Bases But Does Not Steal As He Should" and regardging speed he is "Plus Once Underway; Good Stride"





Dude, stop yourself. Listen to what you're saying. It's March and we still have threads arguing the pro's and con's of Willie Harris. There has been scant mention of Aaron Rowand here for weeks, but every day it's still Willie Harris reruns.

Why is that? :?:

TaylorStSox
03-08-2006, 01:11 PM
The guy frickin sucks at the major league level. He has also been brutal this spring training.

As a RH, he just doesn't have the stuff to get good hitters out in late inning situations.

TheVulture
03-08-2006, 01:23 PM
Great move...this is called geting something for nothing.

Lip

No kidding. This is absolute highway robbery. I doubt there's a MLB GMing 101 class offered anywhere, but if there were, one of the first things they'd probably teach would be never give up a good young major league shortstop for a 28 year old minor league reliever.

And what a bench the sox'll have! No doubt the best in the AL.

soxfanreggie
03-08-2006, 01:23 PM
Baj had his chances here. We had the opportunity to get someone in to help out the team and be a quality back-up. I'll miss Baj, but it gives him the opportunity and helps out the team.

rdivaldi
03-08-2006, 01:27 PM
Agree, is this a salary dump?

Hmmmmm. Cintron only makes what? $1.5 mil? Maybe they're just opening up a spot for one of their youngsters. Arizona does have a great farm system.

TheVulture
03-08-2006, 01:27 PM
Cintron could end up with the majority of playing time at 2nd this year for the Sox.

Yeah, if Iguchi gets run over by a bus.

Iwritecode
03-08-2006, 01:28 PM
I don't know if spiffie has some anti-Willie history or not, but I agree with the main point in his post. Cintron has to have good speed or else he would not have posted good triples numbers in 2003 and 2004. Triples are usually a good indicator of someone being fast enough to turn a double into another base. Maybe Cintron is bad at reading pitchers and getting jumps, I don't know.....

FWIW, ESPN player scouting reports say that regarding baserunning he is: "Instinctive And Knows How To Run The Bases But Does Not Steal As He Should" and regardging speed he is "Plus Once Underway; Good Stride"

I don't really follow the D-backs much but maybe it's because he never really had a green light to go? Some teams just don't believe in stealing that much.

Ozzie on the other hand loves it.

Domeshot17
03-08-2006, 01:31 PM
You know, I hate to say this, but my first thought when I heard this was that Uribe's days might be numbered. Cintron seems better fit to hit 2nd in the order. Hes got more plate control better bunter better obp. He doesnt have many stolen bases, but I know people love his speed. Arizona only stole 67 as a team, so I have to think his stolen base totals could increase under Ozzie. I also think the way he hits he might be better suited for USCF. I love Uribe, especially his D. I am almost positive im wrong here, but cintron seems like he could act a lot like tadahito did in the 2 hole last year, where Uribe and his lack of discipline scare me.

Hagan
03-08-2006, 01:31 PM
Cintron isnt anything special at all. He will be on our bench and play some here and there but we lost bajenaru, one of my favorite sox players.

longshot7
03-08-2006, 01:33 PM
Cintron isnt anything special at all. He will be on our bench and play some here and there but we lost bajenaru, one of my favorite sox players.

And he did WHAT in the playoffs last year? One of your favorites?????

Hangar18
03-08-2006, 01:39 PM
..................I doubt there's a MLB GMing 101 class offered anywhere, but if there were, one of the first things they'd probably teach would be never give up a good young major league shortstop for a 28 year old minor league reliever.



Someone Needs to pass this Memo on to the Pirates, Devil Rays, Marlins

TomBradley72
03-08-2006, 01:40 PM
but we lost bajenaru, one of my favorite sox players.

:?:

Because Jason Grilli, Jon Adkins and Ben Davis are no longer with us?

KRS1
03-08-2006, 01:43 PM
Hmmmmm. Cintron only makes what? $1.5 mil? Maybe they're just opening up a spot for one of their youngsters. Arizona does have a great farm system.


Alberto Collaspo looks ready for a shot at their big league roster. He's younger, and equal fielder, and has the upside to be a better hitter than Cintron. My bet is that they did this so Alberto can be on their 25-man. He could even be their starting SS this year, as I think Counsel is just a good back-up. Either way, whether it's Counsel, Callospo, Easley(not so much), or Andy Green, AZ will still have a couple good utility guys on their team, so it wasn't HUGE loss for them.

TheVulture
03-08-2006, 01:43 PM
You know, I hate to say this, but my first thought when I heard this was that Uribe's days might be numbered. Cintron seems better fit to hit 2nd in the order. Hes got more plate control better bunter better obp. He doesnt have many stolen bases, but I know people love his speed. Arizona only stole 67 as a team, so I have to think his stolen base totals could increase under Ozzie. I also think the way he hits he might be better suited for USCF. I love Uribe, especially his D. I am almost positive im wrong here, but cintron seems like he could act a lot like tadahito did in the 2 hole last year, where Uribe and his lack of discipline scare me.

No way.

.301 and .298 were Cintron's OBP the last 2 years and he is nowhere near the same league as Uribe with the glove. He's less than average at short overall in my opinion - doesn't have close to the range or arm of Uribe and tends to be a bit sloppy. He's definitely a better hitter than fielder, but not any better than Uribe at the plate, and I think Uribe has more untapped potential offensively as well. He's a very good pickup for the bench and nothing more.

mccoydp
03-08-2006, 01:48 PM
This looks like a good move. I was not convinced that Bajenaru had what it took to make this pitching staff. Cintron is a solid player...gives the Sox more depth. I'm happy! :thumbsup:

White Sox Randy
03-08-2006, 01:52 PM
KW is piling on the insurance. He wants to repeat and has his starters in place. He knows they were lucky with few injuries last year.

He wants to repeat and he fears only multiple injuries now.

So, he signs Nomo in case of 2 starting pitchers going down.

He signs Grieve in case 2 outfielders go down.

He gets Cintron in case 2 starting infielders go down.

SOXandILLINI
03-08-2006, 01:53 PM
was not a baj fan at all.... me likey the move.:D:

KRS1
03-08-2006, 01:57 PM
No way.

.301 and .298 were Cintron's OBP the last 2 years and he is nowhere near the same league as Uribe with the glove. He's less than average at short overall in my opinion - doesn't have close to the range or arm of Uribe and tends to be a bit sloppy. He's definitely a better hitter than fielder, but not any better than Uribe at the plate, and I think Uribe has more untapped potential offensively as well. He's a very good pickup for the bench and nothing more.

His bat is not better than his glove. Cintron is a very good fielder. He does have good range, an arm that good enough to play anywhere on the diamond, and plus intincts and reaction. If anything his bat is behind his glove still, his range factors were huge last year at each IF position, and other than his first season playing 3b he's always had good fielding %.

WS in 05
03-08-2006, 02:22 PM
sure you can say cintron isn't worth it or whatever but last year around this time you could of said that ozuna won't be of any help and he was a good aqcuistion, so Im all for the cintron being a role player of the bench

KRS1
03-08-2006, 02:26 PM
sure you can say cintron isn't worth it or whatever but last year around this time you could of said that ozuna won't be of any help and he was a good aqcuistion, so Im all for the cintron being a role player of the bench

Ozuna was totally different b/c he was just a NRI, we didn't have to give up a player to acquire him. I'm totally for this trade(in case you couldnt tell), but the gripe with some is we had to give a good AAAA pitcher to get him.

Ol' No. 2
03-08-2006, 02:30 PM
Ozuna was totally different b/c he was just a NRI, we didn't have to give up a player to acquire him. I'm totally for this trade(in case you couldnt tell), but the gripe with some is we had to give a good AAAA pitcher to get him.You can never have too many of those.:redneck

BeviBall!
03-08-2006, 02:30 PM
we lost bajenaru, one of my favorite sox players.

Unless you're related... how is this even possible?

Baby Fisk
03-08-2006, 02:34 PM
Unless you're related... how is this even possible?
Jeremy Reed used to be someone's favourite Sox player around here. Some people and their ways! :rolleyes:

KRS1
03-08-2006, 02:34 PM
Unless you're related... how is this even possible?


It's gotta be the eyes.....:redneck

maurice
03-08-2006, 03:34 PM
Nice move. The Sox now have crazy bench depth, though there's no room left from Gload. As a bonus, Cintron is an accomplished PH who bats from both sides of the plate. KW essentially kept Widge / Ozuna and upgraded from Blum / Harris / Perez to Mackowiak / Cintron / Borchard.
:gulp:

As a bonus, Baj finally will get a well-deserved chance to pitch in MLB. He completely dominated in the minors, but the Sox have a track record of trading solid minor-league bullpen guys instead of promoting them. (They handle minor-league starters very differently, albeit erratically.) I expect Baj to have a fine career as a middle reliever, like the legion or former Sox farmhands who have gone before him.

Good luck to Baj and the rest of the Pale Hosed DBacks (Duque, Vizcaino & Young).

soxinem1
03-08-2006, 03:36 PM
I'm thinking maybe they want to use Mackowiak primarily as OF/3B. Ozuna is not really that good defensively, so Cintron could be the utility IF guy. Assuming they bring 11 pitchers north, that leaves 5 bench spots:

Mackowiak
Ozuna
Widger
????
????

I'd assume Cintron will take one of those bench spots.

I'll be honest, this may be an upgrade over Ozuna, not just an addition. By suspicion is that they may go with the 12 pitchers, and then the least effective one gets sent out and Ozuna brought back, since he does have a couple options, I believe.

Though Cintron is not very fast, he does have very sound bat, and is more versatile around the INF than Ozuna is. It is obvious Pablo is pretty much a SS, while 3B and 2B (and LF) are more or less a hobby. Cintron is a guy you can plug in and let him play. He would definitely been a better option at 3B last ytear when Crede got hurt. Ozuna would be over exposed in the line up too long, and that would hurt twice as much if a regualr goes down.

spiffie
03-08-2006, 03:41 PM
Unless you're related... how is this even possible?
It's all in how the name just rolls off the tongue.

infohawk
03-08-2006, 03:44 PM
Most importantly, now that the Sox have Cintron they will never lose another spring training game to the D-Backs.

goofymsfan
03-08-2006, 04:02 PM
I've always been a fan of Cintron, so I like the move.
:bandance:

I'm excited by this trade. I remember watching Alex with the Tucson Sidewinders. He was a fun player to watch. Now I'll be able to watch him a little more now that he is back in the AL.

champagne030
03-08-2006, 04:21 PM
I'll be honest, this may be an upgrade over Ozuna, not just an addition. By suspicion is that they may go with the 12 pitchers, and then the least effective one gets sent out and Ozuna brought back, since he does have a couple options, I believe.

Though Cintron is not very fast, he does have very sound bat, and is more versatile around the INF than Ozuna is. It is obvious Pablo is pretty much a SS, while 3B and 2B (and LF) are more or less a hobby. Cintron is a guy you can plug in and let him play. He would definitely been a better option at 3B last ytear when Crede got hurt. Ozuna would be over exposed in the line up too long, and that would hurt twice as much if a regualr goes down.

Not just "may be an upgrade", it is an upgrade. We now have a backup SS who's not a liability defensively. Not trying to flame Ozuna, but he's below average defensively everywhere except 2nd and there he's only adequate. Also, Cintron is more polished at the plate. Ozuna showed Pods like power without the stolen bases or walks. Ozuna now becomes a better version of Slick Willie (IMO).

maurice
03-08-2006, 04:28 PM
Cintron takes over Ozuna's jobs as primary backup SS and PH v. lefties. However, keep in mind that Ozzie likes to play Ozuna in LF and bat him leadoff when he gives Pods the day off (frequently). He also should see plenty of work as the primary PR, since Sox starters aren't as speedy/smallballish as the media seems to think.

soxinem1
03-08-2006, 04:30 PM
Not just "may be an upgrade", it is an upgrade. We now have a backup SS who's not a liability defensively. Not trying to flame Ozuna, but he's below average defensively everywhere except 2nd and there he's only adequate. Also, Cintron is more polished at the plate. Ozuna showed Pods like power without the stolen bases or walks. Ozuna now becomes a better version of Slick Willie (IMO).

We mean the same thing. Instead of being an additional player, as instant reaction gauges his aquisition, he 'may be' a replacement for Ozuna. Then once the season starts, if there are struggling or non-used pitchers, they would be shipped out and Ozuna brought back. Ozuna is not a bad guy to have, but he should not be the main utility INF on the team.

NonetheLoaiza
03-08-2006, 04:41 PM
It's not like Ozuna is incapable of producing. It is a 25 man roster, and you would be hard pressed to find any roster in the history of baseball with 25 players who all are or could be starters. The point of the bench is to have guys who specialize in certain things. Ozuna showed in ST last year that he was a capable utility guy. Utility guys are utility guys for a reason, if they were the complete package, they would be starting. The point is to have a backup capable of doing a good fill in job for whatever philosophy you're going for. Ozuna is not meant to be a wizard on defense, or with the plate. He's a stop gap, that if called upon can hopefully 'not lose the game'. Obviously, you are going to try and get the guys that fit these needs the best, and some are better than others. Last year, Ozuna did a good enough job, because the White Sox won the World Series. At least, that is how I kind of view Ozuna's role. Don't know if that makes much sense.

Realist
03-08-2006, 04:41 PM
I really like the way Kenny Williams builds a baseball team.

Borchard is more valuable to us now than Gload is.
Gload deserves a chance to get more playing time with Major League club.
We can use another left handed reliever.

One more move would be nice.

nodiggity59
03-08-2006, 04:50 PM
I really like the way Kenny Williams builds a baseball team.

Borchard is more valuable to us now than Gload is.
Gload deserves a chance to get more playing time with Major League club.
We can use another left handed reliever.

One more move would be nice.

Exactly. I'm thinking Gload+Munoz for a slightly overpriced lefty. Get'er done KW.

Lip Man 1
03-08-2006, 04:57 PM
Baj is just another way to spell Arnie Munoz....never was, never will be.

Oh by the way, the Sox just shipped out Munoz to Charlotte.

:smile:

Keep getting rid of the deadwood Kenny (and perhaps bring in another relief guy or two...still plenty of time to steal someone.)

Lip

Jjav829
03-08-2006, 04:58 PM
How much longer until Abreu is wearing Sox black and white?

The better question; if Anderson struggles, how long until the sweet swing of Ken Griffey Jr. is in Sox black and white? :D:

Ol' No. 2
03-08-2006, 05:03 PM
The better question; if Anderson struggles, how long until the sweet swing of Ken Griffey Jr. is in Sox black and white? :D:And how long after that until he's on the Sox DL?

faneidde
03-08-2006, 05:10 PM
Wow, over 130 replies about Alex Cintron? First, the season really needs to start. And second, why hasn't someone dark clouded this thread by saying Jeff B was going to be the next Goose Goosage?

TDog
03-08-2006, 05:31 PM
Hey guys, I checked the site and didn't see it anywhere. Just saw on Whitesox.com that we got Cintron for Bajenaru. I love the deal, but isn't that what we got Rob Mac for? Where is he gonna play?...

It's not like the Sox traded Bullfrog for a utility infielder, but he is a utility infielder. I have a friend who is a big Diamondbacks fan, and she likes Alex Cintron a lot. The Sox are improving their bench.

maurice
03-08-2006, 05:41 PM
And how long after that until he's on the Sox DL?

:D:
Add Griffey to the pantheon of "moves somebody thankfully stopped KW from making" (along with the Garland trade and the failed Ordonez re-signing).

HomeFish
03-08-2006, 06:09 PM
Eh, I'm not sure I like weakening the bullpen when we seem set to have trouble there.

Then again, Baj is hardly a godsend.

soxinem1
03-08-2006, 06:29 PM
Wow, over 130 replies about Alex Cintron? First, the season really needs to start. And second, why hasn't someone dark clouded this thread by saying Jeff B was going to be the next Goose Goosage?

Because he's the next Keith Foulke!!

SouthSide_HitMen
03-08-2006, 06:38 PM
Wow, over 130 replies about Alex Cintron? First, the season really needs to start. And second, why hasn't someone dark clouded this thread by saying Jeff B was going to be the next Goose Goosage?

Bajenaru IS better than Goose Goosage. The key word is the word is as in on 3/8/06, Jeff Bajenaru can outpitch a 54 year old Goose Gossage - barely.

No need to bash Bajenaru but he is not expected to do much on the ML level and Cintron is a valuable addition to the White Sox this year.

I hope Jeff can give Arizona some 4.00 - 5.00 ERA innings in their bullpen as they are shorthanded and can use the help. Cintron will be a valuable backup and will permit Kenny Williams not to have to call the league office in New York to inquire whether he can activate Ozzie if a couple of players get injured.

MarySwiss
03-08-2006, 06:39 PM
Bajenaru IS better than Goose Goosage. The key word is the word is as in on 3/8/06, Jeff Bajenaru can outpitch a 54 year old Goose Gossage - barely.

No need to bash Bajenaru but he is not expected to do much on the ML level and Cintron is a valuable addition to the White Sox this year.

I hope Jeff can give Arizona some 4.00 - 5.00 ERA innings in their bullpen as they are shorthanded and can use the help. Cintron will be a valuable backup and will permit Kenny Williams not to have to call the league office in New York to inquire whether he can activate Ozzie if a couple of players get injured.
What he said.

russ99
03-08-2006, 06:42 PM
You know, I hate to say this, but my first thought when I heard this was that Uribe's days might be numbered. Cintron seems better fit to hit 2nd in the order. Hes got more plate control better bunter better obp. He doesnt have many stolen bases, but I know people love his speed. Arizona only stole 67 as a team, so I have to think his stolen base totals could increase under Ozzie. I also think the way he hits he might be better suited for USCF. I love Uribe, especially his D. I am almost positive im wrong here, but cintron seems like he could act a lot like tadahito did in the 2 hole last year, where Uribe and his lack of discipline scare me.

Uribe's definitely still the Sox starting shortstop, but he's such a streaky hitter, that if he has a bad start in the 2 hole, gets in a major hitting funk during the season or (hopefully not) injured, Cintron could get a decent number of starts and bat either 2nd or swap Iguchi back into the #2 spot.

Nice move Kenny, and what was the Arizona GM smoking?

NoNeckEra
03-08-2006, 06:47 PM
Once and for all:
There's no way Borch goes North with this team. They're hoping he has a decent spring so they can get a bag of balls for him.

MarySwiss
03-08-2006, 06:49 PM
Uribe's definitely still the Sox starting shortstop, but he's such a streaky hitter, that if he has a bad start in the 2 hole, gets in a major hitting funk during the season or (hopefully not) injured, Cintron could get a decent number of starts and bat either 2nd or swap Iguchi back into the #2 spot.

Nice move Kenny, and what was the Arizona GM smoking?

Sorry, but I really think this is a win/win. The D'Backs need pitching. Baj will have a much better chance of being productive with them. He never would have cracked the Sox big-league team to stay.

SoLongFrank
03-08-2006, 06:54 PM
With Cintron on the bench is there still a need for Ozuna? Can't Cintron back up Iguchi at 2B as well? Is Ozuna's speed that much better than the rest to where we have to keep him?

SABRSox
03-08-2006, 07:34 PM
Keep getting rid of the deadwood Kenny (and perhaps bring in another relief guy or two...still plenty of time to steal someone.)

Lip

Joey Gathright...

Not so much as a relief pitcher, but a guy that can be stolen from another roster.

cws05champ
03-08-2006, 07:53 PM
Now this seals the deal that KW won't try to acquire Robbie Alomar at Midseason!!!!!!

tick53
03-08-2006, 08:10 PM
Another good move by Kenny!!!:smile:

SoLongFrank
03-08-2006, 08:10 PM
http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/cintral01.shtml
He's never done much in terms of SB's. I think Ozuna stays. Bye Bye Borchy. :( Having to give up the dream of LTP is hard.

lizard6king6
03-08-2006, 08:23 PM
Joey Gathright...

Not so much as a relief pitcher, but a guy that can be stolen from another roster.

I would love Gathright on our team. PURE SPEED!!! Next coming of Pods, but is their enough room for 2 of em. Eh

oeo
03-08-2006, 08:26 PM
Now this seals the deal that KW won't try to acquire Robbie Alomar at Midseason!!!!!!

But Everett is always a possibility. :tongue:

CWSpalehoseCWS
03-08-2006, 08:28 PM
I like this move alot. Bajenaru was a AAAA player. Looks like Borchard might be gone though, even though I would like to see him make the team. There is no need for him really. Mackowiak and Ozuna can play OF and along with Cintron, all of them can play INF.

pearso66
03-08-2006, 08:34 PM
I like this move alot. Bajenaru was a AAAA player. Looks like Borchard might be gone though, even though I would like to see him make the team. There is no need for him really. Mackowiak and Ozuna can play OF and along with Cintron, all of them can play INF.

I think the more expendable player of Borchard and Gload is easily Gload. Gload really only plays 1 position well, while Borchard plays all 3 OF positions well. To me it seems a lot easier to stick anyone at 1st if it's needed than to throw someone out into the OF. I'd prefer if the Sox got someone else better than Borchard for backup OFer, but a LHP is more important at this time.

Banix12
03-08-2006, 08:56 PM
I like the deal. Really solidifies the bench. He's not a starter but I like the fact that he makes good contact and doesn't strike out a ton. I like those qualities in bench players.

As for the last guy on the bench debate, this actually gives the white sox the option of going with a short bench and carrying 12 pitchers. The three utility men in Ozuna, Cintron and Mackowiak can pretty much cover all the positions with relative ease.

There is no reason to carry Gload anymore since we have plenty of emergency guys at first and even though his bat is fine there is no reason to play him in the OF. Pinch hitter only on the current sox roster.

And there is no reason to carry Borchard because frankly he couldn't hit his way out of a paper bag (thus negating any positive of being a switch hitter). He's fast but he rarely uses it on the basepaths. And the fact that he strikes out 1/3 of the time negates most of the positives of the 6 or 7 ABs he will go yard. I also don't see a ton of reason to keep him as a defensive sub since I don't see him as better defensively than any of the starters.

If they do want to carry a 5 man bench then an extra OF would probably be more in order. Though from the guys they have brought in for the bench even if they bring in a 5th OF it would be a situation where it would be a "defensive sub only/start once every two weeks" and I would be shocked if he got more than 110 AB in the season.

Though I even find the need for a OF defensive sub pretty minimal since the sox OF are all pretty good defensively.

flo-B-flo
03-08-2006, 09:10 PM
I like this move. It's KW being KW.

delben91
03-08-2006, 09:28 PM
Nothing I can say that hasn't already been said. I like the move. I really like the Sox bench. I really like beer. :gulp:

Frater Perdurabo
03-08-2006, 09:41 PM
I'd keep Borchard over Gload. Borch still has potential that he could fulfill. He has power from both sides of the plate and as has been mentioned before, can play all three OF positions well.

The Sox already have a younger (and potentially better) version of Gload coming up in the minors: Casey Rogowski.

Plus, the Sox have a number of players who can play first base: Konerko, Thome and Mackowiak. Plus, in the event of a catastrophic spate of injuries to those three, Dye also can play first base.
:wink:

Banix12
03-08-2006, 10:07 PM
I'd keep Borchard over Gload. Borch still has potential that he could fulfill. He has power from both sides of the plate and as has been mentioned before, can play all three OF positions well.

The Sox already have a younger (and potentially better) version of Gload coming up in the minors: Casey Rogowski.

Plus, the Sox have a number of players who can play first base: Konerko, Thome and Mackowiak. Plus, in the event of a catastrophic spate of injuries to those three, Dye also can play first base.
:wink:

I guess if those are my only two options I might agree. Even though Gload is the far superior hitter there is nowhere for him to realistically play. Though frankly there is no offensive reason to select Borchard over Gload. Borchard is a switch hitter but hasn't shown an ability to hit consistantly so that ability isn't very valuable. Even power where the difference between Borchard and Gload really isn't that great since both have power and neither are going to get a ton of ABs for the big club.

I would really rather they find someone else on the waiver wire. Borchard hasn't done anything to earn a spot on the team and his potential is pretty much nonexistant at this point. Even if he makes the team it would be really hard to fulfill the potential that was expected of him when he is probably only going to get 100-150 ABs, and that's if he stays on the roster all season.

NoNeckEra
03-08-2006, 10:56 PM
Borchard hasn't done anything to earn a spot on the team and his potential is pretty much nonexistant at this point. Even if he makes the team it would be really hard to fulfill the potential that was expected of him when he is probably only going to get 100-150 ABs, and that's if he stays on the roster all season.
Exactly. If he's on our bench, for whom is he going to pinch hit? When is he going to start? Borchard would work on a team with a bunch of punch and judy hitters who need to be pinch hit for in the late innings. Thankfully, we don't have that kind of lineup. It's rare to have the "designated pinch hitter" be the worst hitter on your team. I'm sick of hearing about these tape measure HRs he hits in AZ. His tape measure job vs PHL in '04 at the Cell is his 15 minutes of fame with the Sox. Bye, Joe. We hardly knew yee.

SoLongFrank
03-08-2006, 11:17 PM
Cintron is a much better defensive IF than Ozuna & hit a little better than him in '05. Both are stronger vs LHers than RHers. Mack is the better hitter of the 3 against RHers but still is strong enough vs LHers.

Where Gload comes into the picture is his '04 year where he flat out crushed LHers. He barely faced any in '05. If they see him doing that in ST I think they will bring him North.

markopat
03-09-2006, 12:08 AM
What does this mean for Ozuna? Seems like Cintron plays the same spots as him. They can't carry Mackowiac, Cintron, and Ozuna all on the same roster, can they? Or does this mean that Mackowiac will be more of an outfielder and that Borchard/Gload are off?


The way Ozuna swung the bat at Diablo today...YIKES! I think we win with this move!

Banix12
03-09-2006, 12:18 AM
Exactly. If he's on our bench, for whom is he going to pinch hit? When is he going to start? Borchard would work on a team with a bunch of punch and judy hitters who need to be pinch hit for in the late innings. Thankfully, we don't have that kind of lineup. It's rare to have the "designated pinch hitter" be the worst hitter on your team. I'm sick of hearing about these tape measure HRs he hits in AZ. His tape measure job vs PHL in '04 at the Cell is his 15 minutes of fame with the Sox. Bye, Joe. We hardly knew yee.

I don't think I could have said it better.

Though I'm sure a few here would argue the sox actually had that situation last year with Timo Perez as the primary pinch hitter.

We'll just have to wait and see if any better options come on the market in the next few weeks. I bet there will and I hope Kenny will consider them.

Banix12
03-09-2006, 12:21 AM
The way Ozuna swung the bat at Diablo today...YIKES! I think we win with this move!

It's just one day. Ozuna will hit just fine. His bat is never the question, the glove on the other hand...

SouthSide_HitMen
03-09-2006, 12:30 AM
You know Ozzie's thinking about it:

SS A Cintron
3B R Mackowiak
RF J Dye
1B P Konerko
LF J Borchard
CF B Anderson
2B P Ozuna
C C Widger
SP J Garland

I look forward to a tomato award before the game starts in the game thread with complaints which die down after the White Sox score 6 off of Milton and win 8-4.:cool:

Banix12
03-09-2006, 12:35 AM
You know Ozzie's thinking about it:

SS A Cintron
3B R Mackowiak
RF J Dye
1B P Konerko
LF J Borchard
CF B Anderson
2B P Ozuna
C C Widger
SP J Garland

I look forward to a tomato award before the game starts in the game thread with complaints which die down after the White Sox score 6 off of Milton and win 8-4.:cool:


Great, Now I'm gonna have nightmares

BanditJimmy
03-09-2006, 12:39 AM
Cintron will make $1.6 million in 2006. You got to love the commitment from Kenny to keep on adding pieces regardlesss of price. It would have been easy for him to go with a cheap min wage rookie type contract on a 24th / 25th roster spot, instead he makes this solid pick up.


And he wasn't GM of the year last year? Give me a break.

lostletters
03-09-2006, 10:18 AM
1. Ozuna stays.
2. Yes they can (carry Mackowiak, Cintron and Ozuna) and will.
3. One of the two (Borchard or Gload) are gone.

The White Sox will bring up 5 bench position players but at some point may / will go to 4 bench players and this gives them more flexability. So you remember when Kenny Williams was scrambling to see if they could activate Ozzie in a game Dye ended up playing shortstop late in the game against Oakland - the Joe Crede ejection game? This solves that.

Gload is probably the one who walks. Neither are as good as Cintron. Bajenaru is 28, not a prospect. He reached AAA in the tail end of his age 26 season. I wouldn't expect much from him on the ML level.

Bravo Kenny. Now get a lefty reliever and some Budweiser and I'm ready for Opening Day.

This pretty much nails it down.
Ozuna is staying no matter what. His spot was secured last year.

I am thinking Borchard is gone though and not Gload. Because I think Gload may stick around with the white sox if only because he is actually more attractive as a trade. With that being said, I am counting down the days for Gload or Borchard to be traded for a reliever.

MVP
03-09-2006, 12:27 PM
This pretty much nails it down.
Ozuna is staying no matter what. His spot was secured last year.

I am thinking Borchard is gone though and not Gload. Because I think Gload may stick around with the white sox if only because he is actually more attractive as a trade. With that being said, I am counting down the days for Gload or Borchard to be traded for a reliever.



Exactly, look for either Gload or Borchard to be traded for a reliever. Specifically, a lefty. Of the two, I think Borchard is more likely to be traded to a team like Pittsburgh or Kansas City where he might get a chance to actually play. I think that Gload is more likely than not staying if only because he can play 1B and the Sox need a back up 1B since Thome won't be playing the field.

samram
03-09-2006, 12:29 PM
Am I the only one who doesn't think Gload or Borchard alone will bring a left-handed reliever that can actually pitch? Maybe KW has his eye on someone he thinks is good, but they can't get anybody with a proven track record for either of those guys.

SoLongFrank
03-09-2006, 12:47 PM
Ozzie stated yesterday Owens still has a shot to make the team. He loves the kids speed & the idea of using him as a PR like they did with Harris last year. If this kid can put together a hitting streak right now he'll make the team.

If Owens makes it I just don't see the point to keeping Ozuna.

Cintron is both a better hitter & fielder than Ozuna. Ozuna right now is considered just a backup to Iguchi but Cintron has more ML experience at 2B than Ozuna. In 2005, Cintron played 23 G at 2B, 32 G at 3B, & 39 G at SS.

I just don't see any reason for keeping Ozuna any more. The team has options left on him so I think he better show something this spring to give them a reason.

All that can be said about the bench right now is that Widger, Mack, & Cintron are locks to be on it. That still leaves 1 full-season spot & 1 partial-season spot.

Owens - fastest player in the organization near ML level. Plays CF.
Borchard - power from both sides of the plate & can play all 3 OF pos.
Gload - best defensive 1B, plays corner OF, & best bench hitter vs LHers.
Ozuna - a poor defender with good speed & decent hitting skills. Plays 2B.
Sweeney - too young to make it this year but sure to be late season call up. Plays OF.

Based on Ozzie's most recent comments Owens doesn't have to hit as well as the rest this spring to make it. That gives him the edge.

Foulke You
03-09-2006, 12:53 PM
Am I the only one who doesn't think Gload or Borchard alone will bring a left-handed reliever that can actually pitch? Maybe KW has his eye on someone he thinks is good, but they can't get anybody with a proven track record for either of those guys.
You are not alone in your thinking. To get a good lefty reliever, we'll have to offer more than Gload or Borchard. There is a reason guys like Terry Mullholland and Mike Remlinger still get invited to Spring Training Camps and likely will receive roster spots. It's because they are left handed and finding quality lefty relievers is very tough to do.

What KW might do, is go after a solid right handed reliever who can get both right and left handed relievers out. Somebody like a Cliff Politte who does equally good no matter if it is righty or lefty. Honestly, I don't care what arm they throw with, as long as they can get leftys out.

Lip Man 1
03-09-2006, 01:09 PM
Foulke:

I agree. Which is why when he makes a deal (and I think he will) it will include probably another midtier prospect, maybe even a top prospect if the player being offered is good enough.

Lip

Banix12
03-09-2006, 05:23 PM
Ozzie stated yesterday Owens still has a shot to make the team. He loves the kids speed & the idea of using him as a PR like they did with Harris last year. If this kid can put together a hitting streak right now he'll make the team.

If Owens makes it I just don't see the point to keeping Ozuna.

Cintron is both a better hitter & fielder than Ozuna. Ozuna right now is considered just a backup to Iguchi but Cintron has more ML experience at 2B than Ozuna. In 2005, Cintron played 23 G at 2B, 32 G at 3B, & 39 G at SS.

I just don't see any reason for keeping Ozuna any more. The team has options left on him so I think he better show something this spring to give them a reason.

All that can be said about the bench right now is that Widger, Mack, & Cintron are locks to be on it. That still leaves 1 full-season spot & 1 partial-season spot.

Owens - fastest player in the organization near ML level. Plays CF.
Borchard - power from both sides of the plate & can play all 3 OF pos.
Gload - best defensive 1B, plays corner OF, & best bench hitter vs LHers.
Ozuna - a poor defender with good speed & decent hitting skills. Plays 2B.
Sweeney - too young to make it this year but sure to be late season call up. Plays OF.

Based on Ozzie's most recent comments Owens doesn't have to hit as well as the rest this spring to make it. That gives him the edge.

I just can't imagine a scenario where Owens makes the squad coming out of spring training this year. Even with Ozzie's comments. They aren't bringing up a top prospect to play part time.

Anyway, if by some chance that Owens does make the team it makes Borchard useless, not Ozuna. Borchard would just take At-Bats away from Owens, and it would be more important to give the prospect At-Bats. Also, right now defense is the only reason to carry Borchard since there is no offensive reason to carry a .200 hitter and Owens would get used as a defensive sub over Borchard due to his superior range.

Ozuna sticks because he can hit well and is probably the best pinch runner on the bench. If you need a stolen base he's really the guy you have to go to. Even if Owens made the team I would probably rather carry Ozuna because it would be nice to have an extra pinch runner on the bench.

longshot7
03-09-2006, 06:29 PM
I love Owens, but why would you choose him over Borchard when 1) you've got Ozuna to pinch-run, and 2) Owens can benefit by playing full-time in AAA.

that said, I expect Owens to get called up later this season.

soxinem1
03-09-2006, 06:44 PM
You are not alone in your thinking. To get a good lefty reliever, we'll have to offer more than Gload or Borchard. There is a reason guys like Terry Mullholland and Mike Remlinger still get invited to Spring Training Camps and likely will receive roster spots. It's because they are left handed and finding quality lefty relievers is very tough to do.

What KW might do, is go after a solid right handed reliever who can get both right and left handed relievers out. Somebody like a Cliff Politte who does equally good no matter if it is righty or lefty. Honestly, I don't care what arm they throw with, as long as they can get leftys out.

Getting Andrew Sisco from KC would be great, but inter-division trades like that don't happen that often.

But I think KW has always liked Jeremy Affeldt, and would not be suprised to see a deal for him or a guy like him go though.

flo-B-flo
03-10-2006, 09:28 PM
Playing for Puerto Rico tonight, Cintron has a homer and three RBI against Cuba.

delben91
03-10-2006, 10:37 PM
Playing for Puerto Rico tonight, Cintron has a homer and three RBI against Cuba.

Didn't see the HR, but his 3rd RBI was on a nice opposite field single. One at bat, I know, but it was nice to see all the same.

Tragg
03-11-2006, 12:12 AM
Cintron is a nice pick-up. The mistake, imo, was re-signing Osuna. I'd rather another potential real bat, than a 3rd utility infielder.

Banix12
03-11-2006, 12:40 AM
Cintron is a nice pick-up. The mistake, imo, was re-signing Osuna. I'd rather another potential real bat, than a 3rd utility infielder.

Maybe could you clarify what a potential real bat is?

What's wrong with Ozuna's bat anyway? Wasn't Ozuna the one who led the bench last season in Batting Average (.276, 4th best avg. on the team), Hits (56), Runs (27), Stolen Bases (14) and Triples (2)? And those are his actual results so I think his bat is pretty potentially real.

Sure he doesn't have a lot of power but he puts the ball in play. He's also the best pinch running option off the bench going into this season. If they need a stolen base, right now he's the best guy to turn to.

And while he had his adventures with the glove, I thought he made some good strides to becoming a better fielder by the end of last season. I have no problem with the sox keeping him.

lostletters
03-11-2006, 02:09 AM
Maybe could you clarify what a potential real bat is?

What's wrong with Ozuna's bat anyway? Wasn't Ozuna the one who led the bench last season in Batting Average (.276, 4th best avg. on the team), Hits (56), Runs (27), Stolen Bases (14) and Triples (2)? And those are his actual results so I think his bat is pretty potentially real.

Sure he doesn't have a lot of power but he puts the ball in play. He's also the best pinch running option off the bench going into this season. If they need a stolen base, right now he's the best guy to turn to.

And while he had his adventures with the glove, I thought he made some good strides to becoming a better fielder by the end of last season. I have no problem with the sox keeping him.

Also most people forget that while Ozuna had his moments in the infield, he was a pretty solid outfielder as well. Also he is a good bat off the bench, he hits for average.

Ozuna is a lock no matter what, even with the aditional pickups. In fact the additional pickups with Ozuna gives the White Sox the best bench in the majors. There are three guys who can hit over .270, and two of them can play both infield and outfield.

beck72
03-11-2006, 05:04 AM
You are not alone in your thinking. To get a good lefty reliever, we'll have to offer more than Gload or Borchard. There is a reason guys like Terry Mullholland and Mike Remlinger still get invited to Spring Training Camps and likely will receive roster spots. It's because they are left handed and finding quality lefty relievers is very tough to do.

What KW might do, is go after a solid right handed reliever who can get both right and left handed relievers out. Somebody like a Cliff Politte who does equally good no matter if it is righty or lefty. Honestly, I don't care what arm they throw with, as long as they can get leftys out.

If the sox added a guy like CAsey Rogowski, he and Joe B. could net the sox a decent bullpen arm. But you're right, Joe alone won't get the sox that arm

esbrechtel
03-12-2006, 07:34 PM
i just saw cintron commit an error on the WBC....

FoulkeFan
03-13-2006, 08:57 AM
i just saw cintron commit an error on the WBC....

He also put down a squeeze bunt for a base hit & an RBI.

wsox3505
03-13-2006, 10:03 AM
cintron is a great player to have on the bench and a servicable replacement in case of injury.

Tragg
03-13-2006, 08:43 PM
Maybe could you clarify what a potential real bat is?

What's wrong with Ozuna's bat anyway? Wasn't Ozuna the one who led the bench last season in Batting Average (.276, 4th best avg. on the team), Hits (56), Runs (27), Stolen Bases (14) and Triples (2)? And those are his actual results so I think his bat is pretty potentially real.

Sure he doesn't have a lot of power but he puts the ball in play. He's also the best pinch running option off the bench going into this season. If they need a stolen base, right now he's the best guy to turn to.

he had an OBP of .313 with no power; a walk rate of around 3.5%; that's not a good offensive player. It's well below average.
Borchard, Gload - both will hit better than that.

Best we had? Yeah, he was better than TIMO.
We need a real major league hitter on the bench. Right now we have punch and judy hitters on the bench, 3 utility players, none of whom will even take a walk. How can we afford to have Ozuna and Rob M and Cintron as our top pinch hitters?
Trade one for a middle reliever.

Trav
03-13-2006, 09:13 PM
he had an OBP of .313 with no power; a walk rate of around 3.5%; that's not a good offensive player. It's well below average.
Borchard, Gload - both will hit better than that.

Best we had? Yeah, he was better than TIMO.
We need a real major league hitter on the bench. Right now we have punch and judy hitters on the bench, 3 utility players, none of whom will even take a walk. How can we afford to have Ozuna and Rob M and Cintron as our top pinch hitters?
Trade one for a middle reliever.

So you don't think what we have is good enough and you want to trade what we do have away? That doesn't make sense to me.

Banix12
03-13-2006, 09:54 PM
he had an OBP of .313 with no power; a walk rate of around 3.5%; that's not a good offensive player. It's well below average.
Borchard, Gload - both will hit better than that.

Best we had? Yeah, he was better than TIMO.
We need a real major league hitter on the bench. Right now we have punch and judy hitters on the bench, 3 utility players, none of whom will even take a walk. How can we afford to have Ozuna and Rob M and Cintron as our top pinch hitters?
Trade one for a middle reliever.


There is no way on earth that Borchard is a better hitter than Ozuna. Will Borchard hit more homeruns? certainly, but I really think you are overrating the importance of power because that is the only thing he will do better than Ozuna. How on earth is a .190 career hitter better than a guy who hit .276 last season?

Can't really argue with Gload hitting better, but his lack of defensive versatility makes him relatively useless.

And anyway, neither Gload or Borchard exactly light the world on fire with their walk rates and OBP either.

I really don't worry too much about low walk rates and OBP. with part time players. Often that's the reason a guy like Ozuna is a part timer. Ozuna puts the ball in play and has hit for a reasonably good average throughout his career (career .304 hitter in AAA). Is Ozuna a great offensive player? No, but he is hardly "not good". He's a slightly above average hitter (when it comes batting average) with low power and well above average speed (which is incredibly important since there really is no other stolen base guy on the bench.)

I don't exactly have a problem with them as Pinch Hitters.
Ozuna last season 3-8 as a pinch hitter .375 avg
Cintron last season 14-46 as a pinch hitter .308 avg
Mackowiak was less effective as a pinch hitter since he was 3-16 as a pinch hitter .188 avg. but since he walked 5 times his Pinch Hitting OBP. was .381

I don't know what you want as a bench player but Ozuna is just fine. You seem to want power but usually if a high power guy is on the bench he has qualities that make him generally unplayable (bad contact hitter, poor defense, high K rates).

Brian26
03-13-2006, 10:20 PM
Right now we have punch and judy hitters on the bench, 3 utility players, none of whom will even take a walk. How can we afford to have Ozuna and Rob M and Cintron as our top pinch hitters?
Trade one for a middle reliever.

We didn't exactly have Tony Gwynn sitting on our bench last year. I've got no problem with those three and Gload on the bench.