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View Full Version : Frank v Kenny, part deux


Daver
02-28-2006, 11:34 PM
It continues here. (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=66896)

SOX ADDICT '73
02-28-2006, 11:41 PM
It continues here. (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=66896)
I hope to hell it doesn't. :(:

SoLongFrank
02-28-2006, 11:58 PM
Every year of the old contract the White Sox had the option to invoke the DS clause IF Thomas failed to make the All-Star team AND failed to make top 10 MVP AND failed to win the silver slugger award. He had to fail all 3 criteria's. He didn't do that in 2000, in 2001 they filed an insurance claim against the injury which prevented them from invoking the clause as well.
So 2002 was the first year where he failed all 3 & completed the season.

When the White Sox notified Frank they had invoked the clause the remainder of the contract paid him $250,000 in cash & $10.1 mil deferred 10 yrs w/out interest. Frank opted for FA. JR signed Frank to a new deal about 2 months later. Kenny was never involved in any part of a new contract. He never sought Frank out or initiated contract talks. This was strictly between Frank, his agent, & JR. Frank initiated the deal directly with JR.

The new deal was less than Baltimore was offering as a base but about equal when considering all incentives. Frank had the opportunity to earn $36 mil /4 yr cash. That was substantially more than the existing contract because it was all cash. Had he performed in 2004 & 2005 like he did in 2003 this thread would not exist. Frank would still be a member of the White Sox. It guaranteed Frank no less than $22.5 mil/3 yrs cash which again is more than the existing contract's cash value over that time.

JR really had saved the day for Frank & I believed changed the tide against him(JR) in the media. Suddenly the same media that blamed JR for the strike were praising him for giving Frank a chance to continue his HOF drive in a White Sox uni.

Even with the buyout if Frank remains healthy this year he'll still make $6.6 mil. Essentially the cash value of the old contract. All he's out is the $16 mil deferred which is about equal in cash value to what Konerko gave up in choosing the White Sox over LAA or Balt.

That's why I think Frank is as fond of JR as JR is of Frank. I'm guessing they will have dinner together whenever the White Sox, A's, & JR are in the same town. I also believe that over the course of the season JR & Frank will be seen in photo ops.
Perhaps even Frank, Ozzie, & Konerko as well. Kenny will look like he's living on an island when it comes to Frank.

voodoochile
03-01-2006, 01:09 AM
Maybe it's time for a Cubune headline:

Frank Thomas Haters Run WSI's KW-Frank Fued Thread to a Staggering 460 Posts!
- KW Forgets about the '06 team and possibly another run at the title, to rip on future HOF player and fan the media flames.
- Fifteen years of HOF hitting leave Sox fans wanting more.


heh, heh, flame away guys! :redneck

No need to flame... I simply fixed your post...:rolleyes:

voodoochile
03-01-2006, 01:11 AM
I'm not blaming Frank for Giambi's cheating. However, the DSC wasn't invoked that offseason anyway.

Ok, let's say they remove the DSC after the 2000 season. His contract ran through this coming season at a little less than $10 million a season. I doubt he would have renegotiated and he would be untradeable.

See, this is the PR problem for owners. If they sign a guy to a bad deal (see Darren Dreifort or Troy Percival), it's perceived as being their fault for signing the contract. However, if they structure the deal so that the player isn't getting paid for being hurt, then the owner is perceived as being heartless if he doesn't remove the protective provisions when the player has a comeback season (even if, say, he bailed the player out of financial holes on several occasions).

They couldn't remove it after the 2000 season. Frank finished second in the MVP balloting. If Giambi isn't juicing Frank wins hands down and the third MVP award removes the DSC peramanently from the contract.

WhiteSoxFan84
03-01-2006, 04:38 AM
Dusty Baker is now talking about this as well... (http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/13985215.htm)

He compares this feud to the one he and Sosa had. He also talks about how he can relate to Kenny saying he covered up for Frank because Dusty "did the same" with Sosa.

speaking of Dusty Baker, am I the only one that thinks he and Randy Jackson were seperated at birth?

http://www.ultimatevoicecoach.com/i/photos/coach_randy.jpghttp://www.autographedtoyou.com/celebpics/dusty_baker5.jpg

oeo
03-01-2006, 07:19 AM
Dusty Baker is now talking about this as well... (http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/13985215.htm)

He compares this feud to the one he and Sosa had. He also talks about how he can relate to Kenny saying he covered up for Frank because Dusty "did the same" with Sosa.

speaking of Dusty Baker, am I the only one that thinks he and Randy Jackson were seperated at birth?

http://www.ultimatevoicecoach.com/i/photos/coach_randy.jpghttp://www.autographedtoyou.com/celebpics/dusty_baker5.jpg

I'm not sure, but that is one creepy picture of Baker...

samram
03-01-2006, 10:06 AM
They couldn't remove it after the 2000 season. Frank finished second in the MVP balloting. If Giambi isn't juicing Frank wins hands down and the third MVP award removes the DSC peramanently from the contract.

I've looked all over and I can't find anything that says that if he won the MVP award in 2000 the DSC would have been removed. I think it was a year-to-year evaluation.

daveeym
03-01-2006, 10:56 AM
They couldn't remove it after the 2000 season. Frank finished second in the MVP balloting. If Giambi isn't juicing Frank wins hands down and the third MVP award removes the DSC peramanently from the contract. That's how I remember it. Top ten mvp, allstar berth, silver slugger got him an extra year, an mvp award got it totally removed.

GoSox2K3
03-01-2006, 11:00 AM
No need to flame... I simply fixed your post...:rolleyes:

:rolling: At least the Frank defenders here are as delusional as the Big Hurt himself.

voodoochile
03-01-2006, 11:27 AM
I've looked all over and I can't find anything that says that if he won the MVP award in 2000 the DSC would have been removed. I think it was a year-to-year evaluation.

That's the way I always read it back then. Third MVP removed the DSC from the contract permanently. I haven't read the actual contract so am going on stories I remember and analysis that was given when the contract was signed and again when all of this stuff started to come up including the MVP season that should have been in 2000.

voodoochile
03-01-2006, 11:34 AM
:rolling: At least the Frank defenders here are as delusional as the Big Hurt himself.
I don't think that what Frank said was great. I simply think what KW said is much worse. It's that simple.

Given the history of the two men, what Frank said is probably expected and again, what did he say that was so horrible?

"I thought I would be given the courtesy of a phone call BEFORE the news of Thome trade hit the papers and certainly before they re-signed PK and left me with no position to play at all" is a rough translation of the main point of his frustration.

KW called Frank an idiot, then continued his tirade by threatening to remove all evidence of the greatest player in Sox history from the building and then suggest any statue should be dressed in drag.

How can ANYONE defend KW on this one? In this case, it's NOT the way it was said, it's WHAT was said.

samram
03-01-2006, 11:36 AM
That's the way I always read it back then. Third MVP removed the DSC from the contract permanently. I haven't read the actual contract so am going on stories I remember and analysis that was given when the contract was signed and again when all of this stuff started to come up including the MVP season that should have been in 2000.

Ok, so assuming that's correct, I guess you can argue that the Sox could have retroactively removed the clause after Giambi's apology or whatever that stupid thing was he did last year. I just wonder what would have happened if they had that financial commitment on the books through this season.

I just hope both Frank and KW stop talking about this. Hopefully, Frank has a good year out there and gets to 500 homeruns and gets into the HOF.

santo=dorf
03-01-2006, 11:38 AM
How can ANYONE defend KW on this one? In this case, it's NOT the way it was said, it's WHAT was said.
I'll turn the tables.

Who is defending Kenny calling him an idiot? That one guy who barely posts but when he does it's in big red letters? The "Frank Haters" (you are lumping a lot of people in this category) are just bashing him for his whining comments which came before KW's comments.

voodoochile
03-01-2006, 11:42 AM
I'll turn the tables.

Who is defending Kenny calling him an idiot? That one guy who barely posts but when he does it's in big red letters? The "Frank Haters" (you are lumping a lot of people in this category) are just bashing him for his whining comments which came before KW's comments.

Right, but I can also put myself in Frank's shoes emotionally. If I were him, I'd be PO'd too. I think all of us would be. Given that and given Frank's propensity for saying the wrong thing when a camera is running and the tape is spinning, this is pretty much expected. Acceptable? Appropriate? Borderline at best and Frank should have bitten his tongue, but we know that isn't going to happen anytime soon.

Then came Kenny...

spawn
03-01-2006, 12:07 PM
KW was nominated for Mike and Mike's Just Shut Up Award yesterday (he came in second behind Bode Miller, who was the runaway winner), and both Mikes thought he was completely in the wrong for his comments. Today, they said they recieved a lot of e-mails from Sox fans saying Frank got exactly what he deserved. I agree with Golic when he said that what KW said should've been said to Frank in a phone call or face to face, not to the media. The reaction to their comments from yesterday just shows that with Frank, you either love him or hate him.

SoLongFrank
03-01-2006, 12:13 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-ozzie01.html Ozzie's the voice of reason? Repairs some of the damage by Kenny.

"Frank is the greatest player to wear this uniform. Leave with that image.''

'That happened to me,'' Guillen said. ''I was talking crap about the White Sox, but I just said it once. That's it. I got it off of my chest. If you hear it day in and day out, people get aggravated about it.''

Of course, Ill say hi to him, Guillen said. If he says hi to me, Im going to say we will get him out every time we can. But that problem is between Kenny and Frank Thomas. It has no issue with us.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-060228cubsbrite,1,6175566.story?coll=cs-cubs-headlines

"This is the end of an era for Frank, and an end of an era for Sammy. It's approaching the end of the era for Barry [Bonds]. It was the end of the era for Cal Ripken. It was an end of an era for Willie Mays when he got traded to the Mets, and Hank [Aaron] went to Milwaukee.

"We don't like it, but we all get older and things change."

http://www.denverpost.com/rockies/ci_3556255 Read the Translation. Entitlement.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/deluca/cst-spt-deluca01.html Magg's speaks.
''I never had a problem with any of my teammates. Maybe Frank is sad because he had to leave like that. Frank is a Hall of Famer. He and Albert Belle are the best two hitters I've ever seen.''

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=404922 El Cabello focused on his own team. Says the derby screwed up his swing. Konerko & Thome? Just say no.
Lee appeared in all 162 Brewer games last year. They home to scale him back to 155 in 2006. He will be playing for Panama in the WBC.

Lee said: "I like it here. If I'm going to stay here, I'll be happy. . . . It's out of my hands. I've just got to do what I do. Everything else will take care of itself."

Lee was one of my favorite White Sox players at that time. I liked him more than Maggs. I was sad to see him leave but I'm glad his exit was cordial & respectful on both sides. That's a good reporter to focus on the Brewer's & Lee & avoid the soap opera.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/rickhummel/story/044AB09F6C4EC1BA86257124001D1307?OpenDocument
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/03/01/SPGHAHGH0H1.DTL
Thank God for Barry Bonds. He took a pg from Rodman's book & did his best impersonation of Paula Abdul. That helped cool down the K-F story. No one mentioned the skirt comment by Williams.

Lastly, no player in Chicago will ever get away with this:
http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=128549&format=&page=1 Coddling to excess? Manny being Manny.

PaleHoseGeorge
03-01-2006, 12:47 PM
Frank Thomas Haters Run WSI's KW-Frank Fued Thread to a Staggering 460 Posts!
- KW Forgets about the '06 team and possibly another run at the title, to rip on future HOF player and fan the media flames.
- Fifteen years of HOF hitting leave Sox fans wanting more.


heh, heh, flame away guys! :redneck

At least the Frank defenders here are as delusional as the Big Hurt himself.
Make a stupid point, get a stupid retort.

Let us know when you have a real thought about this subject.

:cool:

oeo
03-01-2006, 01:00 PM
I don't think that what Frank said was great. I simply think what KW said is much worse. It's that simple.

Given the history of the two men, what Frank said is probably expected and again, what did he say that was so horrible?

"I thought I would be given the courtesy of a phone call BEFORE the news of Thome trade hit the papers and certainly before they re-signed PK and left me with no position to play at all" is a rough translation of the main point of his frustration.

KW called Frank an idiot, then continued his tirade by threatening to remove all evidence of the greatest player in Sox history from the building and then suggest any statue should be dressed in drag.

How can ANYONE defend KW on this one? In this case, it's NOT the way it was said, it's WHAT was said.

I'm not defending either one of them...but they both have their reasons to defend them. Frank really didn't say anything bad, but he kept on saying it. Stop with the whining, you already said you were hurt more than once, do you want everyone to feel sorry for you?

KW probably shouldn't have said what he said the way he did, but at that point he was aggravated. Frank just kept on whining about the situation, one time is enough...I don't care what his history is. Nobody likes a whiner.

voodoochile
03-01-2006, 01:06 PM
I'm not defending either one of them...but they both have their reasons to defend them. Frank really didn't say anything bad, but he kept on saying it. Stop with the whining, you already said you were hurt more than once, do you want everyone to feel sorry for you?

KW probably shouldn't have said what he said the way he did, but at that point he was aggravated. Frank just kept on whining about the situation, one time is enough...I don't care what his history is. Nobody likes a whiner.

Fair enough and to some extent I agree. I also think that the media fueled it by continuing to stick microphones in Frank's face and asking the exact same questions over and over again. Frank didn't go looking for a reporter. They went looking for him.

Ol' No. 2
03-01-2006, 02:05 PM
Fair enough and to some extent I agree. I also think that the media fueled it by continuing to stick microphones in Frank's face and asking the exact same questions over and over again. Frank didn't go looking for a reporter. They went looking for him.And then they went looking for Kenny....same old same old. When you don't have any news, create some.

TDog
03-01-2006, 02:31 PM
...Who is defending Kenny calling him an idiot? That one guy who barely posts but when he does it's in big red letters? The "Frank Haters" (you are lumping a lot of people in this category) are just bashing him for his whining comments which came before KW's comments.

Your tag includes an idiotic remark by Frank Thomas, who played fewer games than Jim Thome in each of the last two years and almost twice as many games total during the previous two seasons. And Thomas, who knows Kenny Williams, had to know Williams wasn't going to simply smile and say nothing.

Whether Williams was right or wrong in saying what he said, he shut up Thomas and expressed the feelings of many Sox fans who were being shown disrespect by one of their all-time favorite players. Thomas' pictures would be coming down at the park even if Williams had responded in the media.

It's too bad the Frank Thomas I loved watching when I was a kid is too broken down for the Sox to depend on him anymore (although playing for Oakland should stop the columns in the Northern California papers from writing stupidly that his injuries are proof that he was on steroids all along).

The Sox are a better team for moving on. If Thomas hadn't taken his whining to Oakland, fans would be moving on, too.

RKMeibalane
03-01-2006, 07:02 PM
That's the way I always read it back then. Third MVP removed the DSC from the contract permanently. I haven't read the actual contract so am going on stories I remember and analysis that was given when the contract was signed and again when all of this stuff started to come up including the MVP season that should have been in 2000.

I remember reading the same thing, as well. That's why I was hoping that Frank would have been able to win the 2002 Silver Slugger Award for DH (he finished second to Ellis Burks), because it would have been hilarious had the Sox not been able to invoke the DSC. If I'm not mistaken, this idea became a running joke for a while amongst the FOFT.

Nellie_Fox
03-02-2006, 12:41 AM
Whether Williams was right or wrong in saying what he said, he shut up Thomas and expressed the feelings of many Sox fans who were being shown disrespect by one of their all-time favorite players.I've read these quotes until I'm ready to pass out, and nowhere did I see any disrespect toward Sox fans. If you're looking for a reason to be offended, you can always find one, but I heard nothing negative about fans.

TDog
03-02-2006, 01:31 PM
I've read these quotes until I'm ready to pass out, and nowhere did I see any disrespect toward Sox fans. If you're looking for a reason to be offended, you can always find one, but I heard nothing negative about fans.

I felt disrespected when Frank Thomas said he wouldn't have thrown out the first pitch in a postseason game or taken part in the victory parade if he knew he wasn't coming back. He didn't do those things as a favor to management. He did them for the fans who supported him for 16 years and for his teammates who were enjoying an awesome season. If he was putting himself out as a favor to management and it was such a hassle for him, I'm not sure why he bothered.

It should have been obvious to anyone who was paying attention that he wasn't coming back. I'm sure it was obvious to his agent.

SoLongFrank
03-02-2006, 02:03 PM
http://insidebayarea.com/athletics/ci_3557523 Sarcasm or do they really enjoy the buzz?

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/imrem.asp?id=161483 Of all the things he could have written about this is lame.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-060301mitchell,1,1146593.column?coll=cs-home-utility
Himes take on Frank's & Sosa's exits.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/deluca/cst-spt-deluca02.html La Russa on the 2005 White Sox & Ozzie.

IMO Kenny handled this whole situation terribly. Not only did he allow his vendetta against Frank to paint the entire organization in a bad light going into spring training but I don't think he made a decision that is best for the team.

It wasn't obvious to any one he wasn't coming back including the White Sox. Just as it wasn't obvious Konerko would sign a new deal. When it looked like Konerko would become an Angel, the White Sox pulled the trigger on the Thome trade. The media had portrayed Konerko as practically being in an Angel uniform at that time. The Thome trade was made with the belief Konerko was gone. Thomas was still in the running to replace Konerko's power from the right side. Konerko contacted the White Sox after recieving offers from BAL & ANA. It wasn't the other way around. The White Sox had given up. But Konerko said if you just add the 5th year I'll sign. Kenny was moved by the gesture & in light of two other teams offering him 5 yr deals he agreed. It's only then when it became obvious that the only role for Frank would be that of a backup.

Frank says he would have played for $1 million in 2006. What is so terrible about signing him to an incentive ladden contract for 2006? What is so terrrible about having one of the best RH bats in the game share duties at DH & come off the bench?
If Frank accepts he would be doing so with the understanding Thome is going to get the bulk of the at-bats at DH because he's one of the best LH bats in the game & the White Sox have a greater need for that. If he doesn't accept then HE creates his own exit & departure from the team. He's not pushed out any more.

More importantly on the question of why he didn't re-sign with the White Sox they could have scripted him an answer:

It was a lefty/righty thing. Thome is as solid a LH bat as they come. They felt they had a greater need in that area because Iguchi, Dye, Crede, & Konerko provide the power from the right side. It's not unlike the situation here in Oakland. The A's felt they needed more power from the right side to complement an already balanced lineup. That's why I'm here. To help make the A's a championship caliber team.

Short, concise, respectful, & acknowledges current White Sox players as well.

Nellie_Fox
03-02-2006, 02:15 PM
I felt disrespected when Frank Thomas said he wouldn't have thrown out the first pitch in a postseason game or taken part in the victory parade if he knew he wasn't coming back. I figured that's what you were talking about. I have an entirely different read on that. Putting myself in his place, if I knew that the team had absolutely no intention of bringing me back, I would not feel like a part of the team anymore, and would feel stupid taking part in the fesitivities. I would have felt just like Frank.

Oddly enough, it seems to be the fans who are perfectly happy with the way things turned out with Frank who are feeling "disrespected," while those of us unhappy with the way it was handled are okay with Frank's position on this. Why do you guys who don't particularly care that he's gone care if he throws out a pitch or waves from a car in a parade?

PaleHoseGeorge
03-02-2006, 02:24 PM
Oddly enough, it seems to be the fans who are perfectly happy with the way things turned out with Frank who are feeling "disrespected," while those of us unhappy with the way it was handled are okay with Frank's position on this. Why do you guys who don't particularly care that he's gone care if he throws out a pitch or waves from a car in a parade?

Oh, oh, oh! I know! I know! Pick me! Pick me!
<waving hand frantically in the air>

Because it's all about MEEEEEEEE!

Yep. It's the very same crime they convict Frank Thomas of.

:cool:

Flight #24
03-02-2006, 02:30 PM
I figured that's what you were talking about. I have an entirely different read on that. Putting myself in his place, if I knew that the team had absolutely no intention of bringing me back, I would not feel like a part of the team anymore, and would feel stupid taking part in the fesitivities. I would have felt just like Frank.

Oddly enough, it seems to be the fans who are perfectly happy with the way things turned out with Frank who are feeling "disrespected," while those of us unhappy with the way it was handled are okay with Frank's position on this. Why do you guys who don't particularly care that he's gone care if he throws out a pitch or waves from a car in a parade?

Dead on. Frank throwing out the first pitch and speaking at the parade was equivalent to say Nolan Ryan throwing it out for the Astros - it solidifies/exemplifies his place as one of the preeminent/most important figures in franchise history. A "core" franchise guy, if you will.

Then, a few weeks later, they cut him without even mentioning it to him (or if you believe him, after intimating that they wanted to renegotiate his deal). That's treating him like he's a non-reoster invitee to spring training, or a guy who played for a few years with the team (like Rowand) instead of the greatest player in franchise history.

That dichotomy is what Frank's referring to (IMO). He obviously interpreted the gestures as indicative of his place in the franchise. And had he known the way the Sox "really felt", he would have been being falsely put up as the franchise icon.

It's got nothing to do with the fans, and everything to do with what the org views as his place in team history and his value to the organization (not just the team).

voodoochile
03-02-2006, 02:42 PM
Oh, oh, oh! I know! I know! Pick me! Pick me!
<waving hand frantically in the air>

Because it's all about MEEEEEEEE!

Yep. It's the very same crime they convict Frank Thomas of.

:cool:

Yep... that's why people boo great players who leave the team. That's why people get mad when a player takes a better offer or for personal reasons signs elsewhere.

It's never just about watching and rooting for the team. I spent time, money and energy rooting for these guys and if they let ME down, I will let them know just how unacceptable it is in no uncertain terms...:rolleyes:

Jerko
03-02-2006, 03:20 PM
I've always been a Thomas fan but what he said about the first pitch and the rally bugged me. IMO, if he can accept a ring now, he belonged at that parade then.

santo=dorf
03-02-2006, 04:02 PM
I laugh when people mention how we didn't make him an offer. I suppose if the Sox made a low enough offer that Frank would reject, all the FOFT would claim JR is lowballing him. :rolleyes:
Like I said before, he claims he would've signed for another million probably because he only got $500,000 guaranteed from the A's. What happens if he accepted an offer? Do you honestly believe he'll go the whole season as a bench player without complaining? Ok so we'll sign him to be our full-time DH and hope his health stays ok (again.) The Thome trade isn't made, and Konerko doesn't comeback because based from what we heard from Konerko's own mouth; he didn't see eye to eye with Frank, he was close to signing with Anaheim, and the Thome trade was a big influence for him coming back next year.

Does anyone here actually think this team is better with depending on Frank to be healthy and be the full time DH without Konerko and/or Thome? :?:

Don't you think other guys on this team (Blum, Timo, Harris, Everett, and Adkins) knew their time with the Sox was up after the World Series. I could just imagine how some of you would react if Willie Harris decided to skip the parade because he knew the Sox weren't going to bring him back next season.
"Harris is so selfish!"
"He is still part of the 2005 team, so he should show up for the 2005 festivities!!!"

SoLongFrank
03-02-2006, 04:03 PM
I've always been a Thomas fan but what he said about the first pitch and the rally bugged me. IMO, if he can accept a ring now, he belonged at that parade then.

He never should have said that. He was thinking only of himself & Kenny when he did. He wasn't thinking of the fans. His participation was all about celebrating the championship with the fans. They wanted to celebrate with him.

Nellie_Fox
03-02-2006, 04:06 PM
Don't you think other guys on this team (Blum, Timo, Harris, Everett, and Adkins) knew their time with the Sox was up after the World Series...Actually, no I don't think those guys all knew their time with the Sox was up. And I don't think you can compare their expectations to those of Frank Thomas, given their respective contributions to the Sox.

Besides, it's not what they expected, it's what they knew that mattered. If they knew for sure that they weren't coming back and decided that they would be out of place participating, I would not have held it against them at all.

voodoochile
03-02-2006, 04:09 PM
He never should have said that. He was thinking only of himself & Kenny when he did. He wasn't thinking of the fans. His participation was all about celebrating the championship with the fans. They wanted to celebrate with him.

Heaven forbid any of us ever say something spiteful and angry when we are diappointed and sad about a turn of events in our life. Hope it never happens to any of you when the cameras are rolling and a microphone is recording what you say.

Yes, that includes what KW said in his comments. I personally won't hold his comments about Frank against him in the future. I just hope they both can mend the fences because they are both a major part of Sox history.

TDog
03-03-2006, 02:03 PM
Don Pall got screwed over by the Sox. Ron Kittle got screwed over by the Sox. Numerous times that weren't the focus of media attention. Both of them are now big Sox guys who never say anything bad about the Sox, although Kittle joked about at least playing in a nicer uniform when he went from the 1983 Winning Ugly garb to Yankee pinstripes. Ron got screwed over again this off-season when he was asked to interview for the announcer's job and didn't get the courtesy of a phone call telling him they had chosen someone with no announcing experience. You haven't heard him whining in public.

Some people around here are upset that Frank Thomas isn't coming back. I'm disappointed he didn't retire gracefully, or at least departed more gracefully. For the last two seasons he has been more of a souvenir to the Sox than the offensive machine he once was.

I accepted in September that for the Sox to be a winner, they were going to have to replace Thomas in 2006. It wasn't hard to figure that out.

voodoochile
03-03-2006, 02:55 PM
Don Pall got screwed over by the Sox. Ron Kittle got screwed over by the Sox. Numerous times that weren't the focus of media attention. Both of them are now big Sox guys who never say anything bad about the Sox, although Kittle joked about at least playing in a nicer uniform when he went from the 1983 Winning Ugly garb to Yankee pinstripes. Ron got screwed over again this off-season when he was asked to interview for the announcer's job and didn't get the courtesy of a phone call telling him they had chosen someone with no announcing experience. You haven't heard him whining in public.

Some people around here are upset that Frank Thomas isn't coming back. I'm disappointed he didn't retire gracefully, or at least departed more gracefully. For the last two seasons he has been more of a souvenir to the Sox than the offensive machine he once was.

I accepted in September that for the Sox to be a winner, they were going to have to replace Thomas in 2006. It wasn't hard to figure that out.

I can't believe you mentioned Don Pall and Frank Thomas in the same sentence...:rolleyes:

Again, this is the greatest player to ever don the uniform. Yes, guys like that get special treatment, period. It's just that simple...

TDog
03-04-2006, 12:05 AM
I can't believe you mentioned Don Pall and Frank Thomas in the same sentence...:rolleyes:

Again, this is the greatest player to ever don the uniform. Yes, guys like that get special treatment, period. It's just that simple...

I could mention a lot of people in the same sentence. That shouldn't imply comparison.

However, Don Pall does have more class than Frank Thomas. So do many people that never played professional baseball.

GoSox2K3
03-04-2006, 12:42 AM
Heaven forbid any of us ever say something spiteful and angry when we are diappointed and sad about a turn of events in our life. Hope it never happens to any of you when the cameras are rolling and a microphone is recording what you say.

Puh-leeze. :rolleyes: You make it sound like Thomas only made one rash, spur of the moment comment. Yes, KW was very unprofessional in his response and it was very unbecoming of a GM. But, I think he has effectively shut down Thomas's constant running his mouth off about about the Sox.

Did you even read that interview in the Southtown that finally sent KW into his tirade? Some of that crap coming out of Thomas's mouth was just delusional. I mean, now, in hindsight, knowing full well that he did indeed miss most of '05 and that Everett adequately plugged a potentially huge hole at DH, and (most importantly) in the end the Sox won the WS, Thomas has the nerve to criticize KW for acquiring Everett because it was an insult to him??? I'm sorry, but that makes it look like the Sox trying to win it all is just secondary to Thomas's feelings. To me, that's the most damning statement coming out of Big Frank's mouth. It's like he's showing the world that this image of him caring more about himself than the team is true.

None of us will ever know for sure if the Sox would have won it all with Timo Perez(??) at DH instead of Everett, but I suppose you'd rather risk the Sox not be World Champions as long as Frank's feeling weren't hurt.

Flight #24
03-04-2006, 08:51 AM
Puh-leeze. :rolleyes: You make it sound like Thomas only made one rash, spur of the moment comment. Yes, KW was very unprofessional in his response and it was very unbecoming of a GM. But, I think he has effectively shut down Thomas's constant running his mouth off about about the Sox.

Did you even read that interview in the Southtown that finally sent KW into his tirade? Some of that crap coming out of Thomas's mouth was just delusional. I mean, now, in hindsight, knowing full well that he did indeed miss most of '05 and that Everett adequately plugged a potentially huge hole at DH, and (most importantly) in the end the Sox won the WS, Thomas has the nerve to criticize KW for acquiring Everett because it was an insult to him??? I'm sorry, but that makes it look like the Sox trying to win it all is just secondary to Thomas's feelings. To me, that's the most damning statement coming out of Big Frank's mouth. It's like he's showing the world that this image of him caring more about himself than the team is true.

None of us will ever know for sure if the Sox would have won it all with Timo Perez(??) at DH instead of Everett, but I suppose you'd rather risk the Sox not be World Champions as long as Frank's feeling weren't hurt.

Did YOU actually read it? Through all of those "delusions", he had very few actual comments:
1) KW acquired "too many" guys so they had to work together to share the ABs (which is obviously false)
2) He deserved better than a call after the fact to tell him he was being let go
3) Had he known he was going to be treated like a NRI, he wouldn't have taken part in the celebrations in the manner normally reserved for franchise icons. Because it would have been "uncomfortable".

No personal attacks, no claims the org was "bad" in any way, and peppered throughout were comments like "I have great respect for Jerry" and "of course I don't hate Jerry or Kenny" and "I had a great time in Chicago".

You want to feel better about your GM making personal attacks on the greatest player in franchise history for making some fairly benign complaints about the org, go ahead - but that man deserves a lot more respect for what he's given this franchise. The degree of "what have you done for me lately" cropping up lately is sickening.

SoLongFrank
03-04-2006, 03:16 PM
Heaven forbid any of us ever say something spiteful and angry when we are diappointed and sad about a turn of events in our life. Hope it never happens to any of you when the cameras are rolling and a microphone is recording what you say.

Yes, that includes what KW said in his comments. I personally won't hold his comments about Frank against him in the future. I just hope they both can mend the fences because they are both a major part of Sox history.

I understand fully what you are saying but there is nothing to stop Frank from apologizing to the fans for those remarks. If we all agree they hurt his fans the most then he should apologize to the fans.

It's not a hard thing to do. All he has to say is something along the lines of:

I want to apologize to my fans back in Chicago. I will cheerish for the rest of my life the time I spent playing & celebrating before them & with them. I wouldn't exchange that experience for anything in the world. My feelings towards somebody in the White Sox organization won't change that.

TornLabrum
03-04-2006, 03:45 PM
I have a completely different take on Frank's behavior since he was let go that no one seems to have thought of. Check out this week's column, coming soon to a WSI home page near you.

Nellie_Fox
03-05-2006, 02:11 AM
If we all agree they hurt his fans the most then he should apologize to the fans. Well, we don't all agree. There was nothing that Frank said that offended me as a fan. Nothing. He has nothing to apologize for.

ode to veeck
03-05-2006, 04:45 AM
Well, we don't all agree. There was nothing that Frank said that offended me as a fan. Nothing. He has nothing to apologize for.

I'm with you Nellie :thumbsup:

SoLongFrank
03-05-2006, 06:36 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/couch/cst-spt-greg05.html

http://www.dacurse.com/timeline Too hilarous :D:

I think Couch is on target & I can see your point as well. If you are a Frank fan then you know he didn't want to be kicked out the door period. He wanted to play out his career solely for the White Sox. That fact makes his comments about William's gestures a non-factor.

FarWestChicago
03-05-2006, 06:46 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/couch/cst-spt-greg05.html

http://www.dacurse.com/timeline Too hilarous :D:

I think Couch is on target & I can see your point as well. If you are a Frank fan then you know he didn't want to be kicked out the door period. He wanted to play out his career solely for the White Sox. That fact makes his comments about William's gestures a non-factor.Do you still have your panties in a bunch? Give it a rest ferrchrissakes. Move on. :rolleyes:

RKMeibalane
03-05-2006, 07:01 PM
Well, we don't all agree. There was nothing that Frank said that offended me as a fan. Nothing. He has nothing to apologize for.

You know what, Nellie? The more I think about it, the more I agree with the point you raised last week. It really is interesting that some of the people who seem to be most offended by what Frank said are the same people who never wanted him around in the first place, whereas the people who have usually defended Frank are the ones who don't seem too put off by his remarks. Why is that?

I can appreciate the fact that some people were legitimately hurt by Frank's comments. As I said before, I think he should have just kept his mouth shut, and I don't blame those individuals who really were offended by what he said. At the same time, however, I'm beginning to think some people are just complaining to complain, and that's all there is to it. Either way, this needs to end. Frank plays for the Oakland A's, and that's where he will remain until his Cooperstown bust is ready.

FarWestChicago
03-05-2006, 07:11 PM
At the same time, however, I'm beginning to think some people are just complaining to complain, and that's all there is to it.Around here? What a shock. Both sides need to shut the hell up and get on with life.

SoLongFrank
03-05-2006, 07:36 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-ken05.html
Things I didn't know about Kenny that help explain why he exploded like he did. He's a powder-keg in general.

For the Thomas bashers try to remember his fans aren't completely sold he had to leave either or that his departure makes the team stronger. We hope Kenny has made the right moves but we have our doubts. No matter how you spin this it still amounts to Anderson+Thome over Rowand+Thomas. For a team that won over 60 of it's games by 2 runs or less Rowand is a difference maker. It remains to be seen if Anderson can be one too.

FarWestChicago
03-05-2006, 07:39 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-ken05.html
Things I didn't know about Kenny that help explain why he exploded like he did. He's a powder-keg in general.

For the Thomas bashers try to remember his fans aren't completely sold he had to leave either or that his departure makes the team stronger. We hope Kenny has made the right moves but we have our doubts. No matter how you spin this it still amounts to Anderson+Thome over Rowand+Thomas. For a team that won over 60 of it's games by 2 runs or less Rowand is a difference maker. It remains to be seen if Anderson can be one too.Will you please shut the hell up. You're worse than a broken record.

Ol' No. 2
03-05-2006, 07:57 PM
I have a completely different take on Frank's behavior since he was let go that no one seems to have thought of. Check out this week's column, coming soon to a WSI home page near you.I think PHG chimed in with the jilted lover angle in Part I. Good article, though. With all the hyperventilating going on you'd think this was the first time a player was let go after a long career with one team and was unhappy about it. These are human beings with all the imperfections that entails.

TornLabrum
03-05-2006, 09:56 PM
I think PHG chimed in with the jilted lover angle in Part I. Good article, though. With all the hyperventilating going on you'd think this was the first time a player was let go after a long career with one team and was unhappy about it. These are human beings with all the imperfections that entails.
Nope, not the jilted lover thing. The reason Frank is upset for being let go. The article I'm referring to hasn't been posted yet.

SoLongFrank
03-06-2006, 04:56 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=2&id=3074 Is that it? I agree.

TornLabrum
03-06-2006, 04:57 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=2&id=3074 Is that it? I agree.

Yup. Just went up last night.

maurice
03-06-2006, 05:03 PM
Crap, I can't believe I agree with a Couch article. I think I'm going to throw up.