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KRS1
02-25-2006, 01:15 AM
This is basically a transcript of talk between a hostess cupcakes fan and Sox blogger Cheat(Chris). http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2006/02/two_on_two_2006.php

Pretty good and sometimes funny stuff, check it out.

Also, cheat I don't agree with half of the things Cheat says, and for the most part he seems pretty dense. Especially when he compares BA to Byrnes, I mean yeah, Byrnes made it to the bigs with less than 3 years of minor league experience, and has above average tools in all five departments, and I forgot Eric Byrnes was drafted in the first round and was widely regarded as a top prospect. He seems to fold on just about every (falsely) negative thing they have to say instead of giving a good rebuttal. Saying he concedes Cleveland has a better offense is just daft, player for player we are stronger and deeper down the line-up.

Pods-----------Grady=Push, Pods is a much better prototypical 1 hitter, Sizemore is a good young hitter with much more power, but his talent will be wasted hitting lead-off.

Uribe-----------Michaels=Uribe wins, more hr potential, and just overall a better hitter with more talent, especially considering Michaels sucks.

Thome---------Peralta=Thome

Konerko--------Hafner=Push

Dye------------Martinez=Push, I think Victor is overrated, and Dye has more power and is a vet coming off his first healthy season in while and put up very good numbers.

All the way down the rest of the line-up we clearly have the better team.

Craig Grebeck
02-25-2006, 10:16 AM
This is basically a transcript of talk between a hostess cupcakes fan and Sox blogger Cheat(Chris). http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2006/02/two_on_two_2006.php

Pretty good and sometimes funny stuff, check it out.

Also, cheat I don't agree with half of the things Cheat says, and for the most part he seems pretty dense. Especially when he compares BA to Byrnes, I mean yeah, Byrnes made it to the bigs with less than 3 years of minor league experience, and has above average tools in all five departments, and I forgot Eric Byrnes was drafted in the first round and was widely regarded as a top prospect. He seems to fold on just about every (falsely) negative thing they have to say instead of giving a good rebuttal. Saying he concedes Cleveland has a better offense is just daft, player for player we are stronger and deeper down the line-up.

Pods-----------Grady=Push, Pods is a much better prototypical 1 hitter, Sizemore is a good young hitter with much more power, but his talent will be wasted hitting lead-off.

Uribe-----------Michaels=Uribe wins, more hr potential, and just overall a better hitter with more talent, especially considering Michaels sucks.

Thome---------Peralta=Thome

Konerko--------Hafner=Push

Dye------------Martinez=Push, I think Victor is overrated, and Dye has more power and is a vet coming off his first healthy season in while and put up very good numbers.

All the way down the rest of the line-up we clearly have the better team.



Konerko and Hafner are not a push.

soxinem1
02-25-2006, 11:41 AM
Some amusing puns notwithstanding, these guys sound like ESPN spin-offs. One said the Twins will have 89-93 wins. Yeah, right, maybe playing Rochester!

The only thing I agree with is the one run games. Though not a fluke, I see it hard to win that many or that percentage of close games again.

johnny_mostil
02-25-2006, 12:48 PM
Some amusing puns notwithstanding, these guys sound like ESPN spin-offs. One said the Twins will have 89-93 wins. Yeah, right, maybe playing Rochester!

The only thing I agree with is the one run games. Though not a fluke, I see it hard to win that many or that percentage of close games again.
Except we all saw how they won all those close games, and it wasn't luck; the close games came in part from a deliberate strategy of trying to hold onto one-run leads.

I am amazed that all this brainpower is being devoted to analyzing baseball but nobody else seems to have noticed how many runs the Indians piled up "running up the score" on other teams' #12 pitchers because Wedge basically does not substitute for his starters no matter what the score. There's nothing wrong with this, but it produces statistics that aren't indicative of anything and warps perceptions of player value (like, say, football passing yards piled up by Spurrier-coached teams). The focus on their "inefficiency" and "missing their projections" ignores the strong possibility that, more than any team in the last 30 years, the Indian statistics are extremely misleading, and focuses on the sanguine possibility they had uniformly terrible luck.

Another way of putting this is with everybody hyper-analyzing baseball teams with computers today, it is possible that the assumption that "everything else is equal" is no longer remotely true, and run scoring projection formulas cranked out in the 1970s are no longer reliable. If so, Cleveland fans are in for a huge letdown.

caulfield12
02-25-2006, 01:01 PM
Except we all saw how they won all those close games, and it wasn't luck; the close games came in part from a deliberate strategy of trying to hold onto one-run leads.

I am amazed that all this brainpower is being devoted to analyzing baseball but nobody else seems to have noticed how many runs the Indians piled up "running up the score" on other teams' #12 pitchers because Wedge basically does not substitute for his starters no matter what the score. There's nothing wrong with this, but it produces statistics that aren't indicative of anything and warps perceptions of player value (like, say, football passing yards piled up by Spurrier-coached teams). The focus on their "inefficiency" and "missing their projections" ignores the strong possibility that, more than any team in the last 30 years, the Indian statistics are extremely misleading, and focuses on the sanguine possibility they had uniformly terrible luck.

Another way of putting this is with everybody hyper-analyzing baseball teams with computers today, it is possible that the assumption that "everything else is equal" is no longer remotely true, and run scoring projection formulas cranked out in the 1970s are no longer reliable. If so, Cleveland fans are in for a huge letdown.

I think Hafner definitely has to prove himself for one more season, but I would imagine he would be the more popular pick among Rotisserie league geeks, as the skeptics always look for Konerko to fall back into inconsistency.

I think Sizemore is the better all-around player, but Pods is more disruptive at leadoff, because Sizemore hitting homers is less intimidating to opposing pitchers than what what Scott did the first 4 months of the season.

As far as the padding the numbers claim, well, the White Sox did that many times from 2000-2004. I think their runs scored to runs allowed differential was better than the Twins for all of those seasons except one, but the runs were not scored in a consistent fashion...it was 9-2, 8-4, then we would lose 2-3 and 3-5 to better pitching. The stats with those Sox teams were always more helpful in fantasy baseball than winning the tight games. The fact that we had a lot of inconsistency from Foulke, Koch, Gordon, etc., during that time did not help matters any.

DSpivack
02-25-2006, 01:37 PM
We should play a lot fewer one-run games this year due to a better offense.

santo=dorf
02-25-2006, 01:44 PM
We should play a lot fewer one-run games this year due to a better offense.
Exactly.

But that won't stop the sabr statheads from screaming "WE WERE RIGHT!!! Their winning % decreased as they only went 22-12 in 1 run games. Obviously the 2005 White Sox were a fluke!!!"

samram
02-25-2006, 02:03 PM
Pods-----------Grady=Push, Pods is a much better prototypical 1 hitter, Sizemore is a good young hitter with much more power, but his talent will be wasted hitting lead-off.

This is not a push. Sizemore is a better player no matter in which part of the order he hits. If Cleveland offered this deal straight up, KW would pack Scott's bags for him and drive him to the airport.

fquaye149
02-25-2006, 03:12 PM
I think Hafner definitely has to prove himself for one more season, but I would imagine he would be the more popular pick among Rotisserie league geeks, as the skeptics always look for Konerko to fall back into inconsistency.

I think Sizemore is the better all-around player, but Pods is more disruptive at leadoff, because Sizemore hitting homers is less intimidating to opposing pitchers than what what Scott did the first 4 months of the season.

As far as the padding the numbers claim, well, the White Sox did that many times from 2000-2004. I think their runs scored to runs allowed differential was better than the Twins for all of those seasons except one, but the runs were not scored in a consistent fashion...it was 9-2, 8-4, then we would lose 2-3 and 3-5 to better pitching. The stats with those Sox teams were always more helpful in fantasy baseball than winning the tight games. The fact that we had a lot of inconsistency from Foulke, Koch, Gordon, etc., during that time did not help matters any.

Not only is Hafner younger than Konerko, he is more consistently statistically outstanding.

Honestly, Paulie's a good hitter. Hafner is a great hitter.

Chisox003
02-25-2006, 03:16 PM
Not only is Hafner younger than Konerko, he is more consistently statistically outstanding.

Honestly, Paulie's a good hitter. Hafner is a great hitter.
Definitely.

Grady > Pods
Hafner > PK
Martinez > Dye

Does that mean they're a better team? Of course not, but there's not enough Sox koolaid in the world to make me believe that PK, Pods, and Dye are better than those 3.

It'll still come down to pitching. We win.

caulfield12
02-25-2006, 03:19 PM
This is not a push. Sizemore is a better player no matter in which part of the order he hits. If Cleveland offered this deal straight up, KW would pack Scott's bags for him and drive him to the airport.

The thing is, would Sizemore be capable of jump-starting the White Sox offense like Pods did the first half of the season in 2005?

Yes, Sizemore would be even more valuable, because he could play CF (except in KC) and you could move Anderson over to LF, where he would be one of the five best defensive LFers in the game IMO.

But this trade is never going to happen...I will just say that Pods is more valuable to the White Sox than he is to Cleveland, and vice-versa...well, maybe Pods instead of Michaels would put the Indians over the top. The problem is that there is no way they´re going to trade Sizemore, and Cleveland would not want to play Scott in CF.

caulfield12
02-25-2006, 03:20 PM
Definitely.

Grady > Pods
Hafner > PK
Martinez > Dye

Does that mean they're a better team? Of course not, but there's not enough Sox koolaid in the world to make me believe that PK, Pods, and Dye are better than those 3.

It'll still come down to pitching. We win.

Still, the fact of the matter is that Martinez is more valuable because he is a catcher putting up those numbers. If he hits like he did in the 2nd half for a whole season, he is capable of putting up MVP numbers.

The more relevant comparison is AJ to Martinez, and Blake to Dye.

ChiSoxNationPres
02-25-2006, 05:29 PM
i found that the responses to the article were just ignorant. i think someone said the sox would have like 85-89 wins and another said they would finish with 87 wins. what part of this team is better in every aspect than the 05 team do they not get? Cleveland has weakened themselves with the coco trade and not resigning millwood. not one offensive sox player last year had career years so some will most likely improve.

also i think someone said that the twins getting castillo made minnesota's offseason the best overall. :?:

MarySwiss
02-25-2006, 05:44 PM
i found that the responses to the article were just ignorant. i think someone said the sox would have like 85-89 wins and another said they would finish with 87 wins. what part of this team is better in every aspect than the 05 team do they not get? Cleveland has weakened themselves with the coco trade and not resigning millwood. not one offensive sox player last year had career years so some will most likely improve.

also i think someone said that the twins getting castillo made minnesota's offseason the best overall. :?:

Ah, yes! Here we go under the radar again! These clowns can just keep on drinking that Cleveland/Minnesota Kool-aid while we taste the World Series champagne! :D:

samram
02-25-2006, 06:10 PM
The thing is, would Sizemore be capable of jump-starting the White Sox offense like Pods did the first half of the season in 2005?
Yes. Sizemore can get past first base with his bat more often that Pods can. Iguchi wouldn't be asked to sacrifice as many pitches/at bats to allow Sizemore to get into scoring position.

But this trade is never going to happen...I will just say that Pods is more valuable to the White Sox than he is to Cleveland, and vice-versa...well, maybe Pods instead of Michaels would put the Indians over the top. The problem is that there is no way they´re going to trade Sizemore, and Cleveland would not want to play Scott in CF.
I agree that Pods is more valuable to the Sox than to Cleveland or any other team really. He seems to be an excellent fit in Chicago. I'm just saying that Sizemore is a better player, no matter which team he's on. I would like to hear what some of the scouts think about Anderson in comparison to Sizemore.

caulfield12
02-25-2006, 06:52 PM
Yes. Sizemore can get past first base with his bat more often that Pods can. Iguchi wouldn't be asked to sacrifice as many pitches/at bats to allow Sizemore to get into scoring position.


I agree that Pods is more valuable to the Sox than to Cleveland or any other team really. He seems to be an excellent fit in Chicago. I'm just saying that Sizemore is a better player, no matter which team he's on. I would like to hear what some of the scouts think about Anderson in comparison to Sizemore.

well, i think any white sox fan would be happy with 22 homers and 69 rbi´s out of brian anderson, rowand´s average over the last two seasons

22 homers and 81 rbi´s for sizemore is huge from where he bats in the order...and sizemore is just 23 years old and has almost 700 at-bats in his mlb career

all things considered, pretty comparable players, although 90 out of 100 scouts would favor grady at this point....i think sizemore will probably average more homers and stolen bases per season, but anderson might turn out to be a slightly better defensive player if he is 100 percent healthy

Sizemore is on track to do what AFL alumni Joe Borchard and Drew Henson haven't--fulfill his potential after receiving a multimillion-dollar bonus to give up college football. Sizemore succeeds because he has a much more disciplined approach. A well-rounded athlete with solid skills across the board, Sizemore was the MVP of the Futures Game. from baseballamerica.com