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MarySwiss
02-24-2006, 10:14 AM
You know, Sox fans should just stop reading those local rags and read the Arizona Republic instead. Another nice Sox article. Then again, Joseph A. Reaves, the Republic writer covering them in Tucson, is a big Sox fan.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/special3/articles/0224konerko0224.html

miker
02-24-2006, 11:00 AM
Well, when you usually cover the Diamondbucks, a good sportswriter is probably longing for positive news.

Hawkeroo1980
02-24-2006, 11:47 AM
You know, Sox fans should just stop reading those local rags and read the Arizona Republic instead. Another nice Sox article. Then again, Joseph A. Reaves, the Republic writer covering them in Tucson, is a big Sox fan.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/special3/articles/0224konerko0224.html

In my person opinion, Arizona does not deserve any sports franchise. their local coverage is downright obsene.....always violently negative towards thier own teams.....ALL THE TIME!

Plus, the residents are so transient that their allegiances are usually brought from another city, i.e. chicago, oakland, san diego, etc. Always boggled my mind.

Anyway----good to see the pub over there is catching on. I really think people outside of chicago are going to start falling in love with this team, its coaches and the overall dominance of such teams as boston,new york, LA.

hopefully!

MarySwiss
02-24-2006, 05:40 PM
In my person opinion, Arizona does not deserve any sports franchise. their local coverage is downright obsene.....always violently negative towards thier own teams.....ALL THE TIME!

Plus, the residents are so transient that their allegiances are usually brought from another city, i.e. chicago, oakland, san diego, etc. Always boggled my mind.

Anyway----good to see the pub over there is catching on. I really think people outside of chicago are going to start falling in love with this team, its coaches and the overall dominance of such teams as boston,new york, LA.

hopefully!

Well, some of what you say is true, but not all of it. For example, obviously I support the Sox first and foremost, but the D'Backs are second in my heart. But even though I know I'll get beaten up for this, if the Suns ever wound up playing the Bulls in the NBA Championship, I'd be solidly behind the Suns. Also, the locals are absolutely maniacal when it comes to ASU/UA.

Also, why does the fact that people remain loyal to their lifelong favorite team boggle your mind? Assuming you're from Chicago, if you moved to, say, Cleveland, would you instantly become an Indians fan? I see you're new; after you've been here for a little longer, you'll see just how many diehard Sox fans there already are outside of Chicago. :smile:

Hawkeroo1980
02-24-2006, 05:57 PM
Well, some of what you say is true, but not all of it. For example, obviously I support the Sox first and foremost, but the D'Backs are second in my heart. But even though I know I'll get beaten up for this, if the Suns ever wound up playing the Bulls in the NBA Championship, I'd be solidly behind the Suns. Also, the locals are absolutely maniacal when it comes to ASU/UA.

Also, why does the fact that people remain loyal to their lifelong favorite team boggle your mind? Assuming you're from Chicago, if you moved to, say, Cleveland, would you instantly become an Indians fan? I see you're new; after you've been here for a little longer, you'll see just how many diehard Sox fans there already are outside of Chicago. :smile:

i am refering to the Cardinals. Arizona picks and chooses who they want to root for. (usually whoever is winning). My point is that most people in Arizona are from a different state so the "diehard allegiance" factor is non-existant.

For instance--- I was born on the southside....so were my parents.....therefore we are chicagoans and our sports allegiance is with the sox/bulls/blackhawks/bears. in AZ--they dont have that.

That franchise should have moved somewhere that could handle having an NFL team. I have also heard that the Coyotes do not get any fans at their arena, its a shame too....i've heard its very nice there.

oh---and don't worry. I think i've been in chicago long enough to know how many die hards there are, but thanks for the thought! :?:

MarySwiss
02-24-2006, 06:17 PM
i am refering to the Cardinals. Arizona picks and chooses who they want to root for. (usually whoever is winning). My point is that most people in Arizona are from a different state so the "diehard allegiance" factor is non-existant.

For instance--- I was born on the southside....so were my parents.....therefore we are chicagoans and our sports allegiance is with the sox/bulls/blackhawks/bears. in AZ--they dont have that.

That franchise should have moved somewhere that could handle having an NFL team. I have also heard that the Coyotes do not get any fans at their arena, its a shame too....i've heard its very nice there.

oh---and don't worry. I think i've been in chicago long enough to know how many die hards there are, but thanks for the thought! :?:

Okay, what I actually said was "how many diehards there already are outside Chicago."

And the Coyotes have a solid core group of very rabid fans. As for the Cardinals, as I said there was some truth in your post.

But I am still confused as to your point. You are saying your allegiance is with the Chicago teams. That implies that if you moved somewhere else, you would still root for Chicago teams, yet you also seem to think that Arizonans should just abandon their teams and root for whoever plays in Arizona. Most of the tranplants I know do root for Ariz. teams--including the Cards--but they take a back seat to the original "home" team. In my own case, I root for the Cards against everybody except the Bears. But I certainly will not spend my money to support a crappy team. I leave that to Cubs fans.

DSpivack
02-24-2006, 06:56 PM
Why should people in Arizona root for the Cards? They're one of the worst franchises in sports, if not the worst. They've been around what, 80 years? And how many times have they made the playoffs?

MarySwiss
02-24-2006, 07:05 PM
Why should people in Arizona root for the Cards? They're one of the worst franchises in sports, if not the worst. They've been around what, 80 years? And how many times have they made the playoffs?

Thank you!

Another thing that I think needs to be taken into consideration here is that Arizona teams do not have the extensive history that Chicago teams do. As I understand it, before the Cardinals got here, most Arizonans were Cowboys fans, which explains why we seem to get the Cowboys game every damn week. (I hate the Cowboys.) I'm not sure what baseball team was the popular one, but the D'Backs have only been around about 10 years. IMO, it's unfair to expect them to have the "diehard" support the Sox enjoy. Also, Jerry Colangelo is beloved in these parts, and again IMO, the average fan did not like the way the D'Backs ownership change was handled.

Well, anyway...

MUsoxfan
02-24-2006, 07:09 PM
Why should people in Arizona root for the Cards? They're one of the worst franchises in sports, if not the worst.

:dollarbill:

"Hey, let's not say anything we can't take back!"

elrod
02-25-2006, 12:01 AM
And how many Chicago Cardinals fans are out there??? Still bitter at losing them in 1960.

jortafan
02-25-2006, 09:40 AM
Then again, Joseph A. Reaves, the Republic writer covering them in Tucson, is a big Sox fan.

Actually, this is the same Joey Reaves who covered the Cubs back in the mid-1990s for the Tribune. In his book "Warsaw to Wrigley," he says he is a lifelong Cubs and Astros fan who looks down on American League baseball because of the designated hitter.

He also notes in his book that he covered the White Sox for one year (1993) and was eager to get back to Wrigley Field the following season, even though covering the White Sox that year was the only time in his career as a baseball writer that he ever covered a team in a pennant race.

TornLabrum
02-25-2006, 10:18 AM
Actually, this is the same Joey Reaves who covered the Cubs back in the mid-1990s for the Tribune. In his book "Warsaw to Wrigley," he says he is a lifelong Cubs and Astros fan who looks down on American League baseball because of the designated hitter.

He also notes in his book that he covered the White Sox for one year (1993) and was eager to get back to Wrigley Field the following season, even though covering the White Sox that year was the only time in his career as a baseball writer that he ever covered a team in a pennant race.

Well, he could be a bandwagon jumper!

MarySwiss
02-25-2006, 04:15 PM
Originally Posted by jortafan
Actually, this is the same Joey Reaves who covered the Cubs back in the mid-1990s for the Tribune. In his book "Warsaw to Wrigley," he says he is a lifelong Cubs and Astros fan who looks down on American League baseball because of the designated hitter.

He also notes in his book that he covered the White Sox for one year (1993) and was eager to get back to Wrigley Field the following season, even though covering the White Sox that year was the only time in his career as a baseball writer that he ever covered a team in a pennant race.


Well, he could be a bandwagon jumper!

I'd say you nailed it, Torn. I distinctly remember him coming out big for the Sox last season. Disappointing.

Hawkeroo1980
02-27-2006, 01:41 PM
Thank you!

Another thing that I think needs to be taken into consideration here is that Arizona teams do not have the extensive history that Chicago teams do. As I understand it, before the Cardinals got here, most Arizonans were Cowboys fans, which explains why we seem to get the Cowboys game every damn week. (I hate the Cowboys.) I'm not sure what baseball team was the popular one, but the D'Backs have only been around about 10 years. IMO, it's unfair to expect them to have the "diehard" support the Sox enjoy. Also, Jerry Colangelo is beloved in these parts, and again IMO, the average fan did not like the way the D'Backs ownership change was handled.

Well, anyway...

Some cities would kill to have an NFL team.....whether they're good or bad. Arizona does, but they consistantly make fun of and ignor the cardinals. I understand that the cards haven't done squat since they moved there but I find it hard to believe that their attendance would be as bad as it is in another city like LA, San Antonio. For that reason, and that reason alone..... I have always resented Arizona having an NFL team.

Hawkeroo1980
02-27-2006, 01:46 PM
And how many Chicago Cardinals fans are out there??? Still bitter at losing them in 1960.

If the Sox left town you wouldn't be bitter? Put yourself in a chicago cardinals fans' shoes.

Losing a sports team that you love is something I've never experienced myself (thankfully) but i'm sure it can be devastating. Beside this has nothing to do with Arizona-- all i'm saying is that they don't support the teams they have.

They didn't even support the D-backs during their WS winning season. I believe there were games that they barely sold out for the world series at bank one ballpark. Not too many Yankee fans could make the 4 hour plane ride to fill up their stadium.

MarySwiss
02-27-2006, 02:18 PM
If the Sox left town you wouldn't be bitter? Put yourself in a chicago cardinals fans' shoes.

Losing a sports team that you love is something I've never experienced myself (thankfully) but i'm sure it can be devastating. Beside this has nothing to do with Arizona-- all i'm saying is that they don't support the teams they have.

They didn't even support the D-backs during their WS winning season. I believe there were games that they barely sold out for the world series at bank one ballpark. Not too many Yankee fans could make the 4 hour plane ride to fill up their stadium.

Whoops, wrong. In 2001, the D'Backs drew in excess of 2.7 million fans. IIRC--and I do--they also set up a Jumbotron outside BOB during the WS so fans who could not get tickets could watch the games on the spot.

In fact, the D'Backs have NEVER drawn under 2 million fans. In 1998--(their first year), they drew more than 3.6 million, 3 million plus in 1999, 2.8 in 2000, 3.2 in 2002, 2.8 in 2003, and 2.5 in 2004. In fact, even in 2005--after a horible 2004 season--they still drew better than 2 million.

But don't let the facts stop you.

Hawkeroo1980
02-27-2006, 03:34 PM
Whoops, wrong. In 2001, the D'Backs drew in excess of 2.7 million fans. IIRC--and I do--they also set up a Jumbotron outside BOB during the WS so fans who could not get tickets could watch the games on the spot.

In fact, the D'Backs have NEVER drawn under 2 million fans. In 1998--(their first year), they drew more than 3.6 million, 3 million plus in 1999, 2.8 in 2000, 3.2 in 2002, 2.8 in 2003, and 2.5 in 2004. In fact, even in 2005--after a horible 2004 season--they still drew better than 2 million.

But don't let the facts stop you.

there is def. nothing to brag about when concidering they BARELY drew over 2 million last year. that number continues to dwindle off too.

drawing "over 2 million every year" is a vaugue statement at best, and definetly not something to hang your head high about.

As far as the cardinals are concerned--- nobody supports them, period. I don't care if they suck or not......its a NFL team. The fact of the matter is, there are other cities that would kill for a pro football team (bad or good) to root for. Arizona has one and does not support it.....that is where i get the bulk of my ire from.

They promise them a stadium.....it take twelve years to get it....they stick them in a crappy college stadium, and the fans don't suppot them.

And you wonder why I question Arizona fan base????

I will say it again---- I don't expect people who live in Zona to abondon their allegiance to their favorite teams if they brought their fandimonuim from a previous state. I'm not saying that you guys in arizona are bad people.
I am simply stating that its a vacation/transient/retirement state that shouldn't have 4 sports teams......there is not enough interest. Too many people from different areas/upbringings.

Basically in Arizona, if you want to generate ANY interest....you have to win a championship. The casual fan does not exist....only bandwagoners for the most part.

MarySwiss
02-27-2006, 03:58 PM
there is def. nothing to brag about when concidering they BARELY drew over 2 million last year. that number continues to dwindle off too.

drawing "over 2 million every year" is a vaugue statement at best, and definetly not something to hang your head high about.

As far as the cardinals are concerned--- nobody supports them, period. I don't care if they suck or not......its a NFL team. The fact of the matter is, there are other cities that would kill for a pro football team (bad or good) to root for. Arizona has one and does not support it.....that is where i get the bulk of my ire from.

They promise them a stadium.....it take twelve years to get it....they stick them in a crappy college stadium, and the fans don't suppot them.

And you wonder why I question Arizona fan base????

I will say it again---- I don't expect people who live in Zona to abondon their allegiance to their favorite teams if they brought their fandimonuim from a previous state. I'm not saying that you guys in arizona are bad people.
I am simply stating that its a vacation/transient/retirement state that shouldn't have 4 sports teams......there is not enough interest. Too many people from different areas/upbringings.

Basically in Arizona, if you want to generate ANY interest....you have to win a championship. The casual fan does not exist....only bandwagoners for the most part.

So you don't think consistently drawing over 2 million every year is a big deal? Good for you. And you "resent" Arizona having an NFL team. Resent away. (BTW, just for the record, you're the one who hijacked this thread and turned it into a platform for airing your negative views about Arizona fans. I originally posted a positive article about the White Sox.)

But back to current events: As I see it, you made a statement about the D'Backs and their fan base that was not supported by facts and I called you on it. You can deal with it. Or you can just ignore the facts because they do not support your viewpoint.

I was not trying to draw your ire, but as long as I apparently have, let me tell you what draws MY ire. It's when someone states an opinion and tries to make it look like a fact. Arizona "doesn't support the D'Backs," it "shouldn't have 4 sports teams," etc. Those are your opinions. They are not facts and you can repeat them as often as you want to; they still won't be.

Finally, I'm glad you don't expect people who live here to abandon their allegiances to their favorite teams. Thanks very much. Fortunately for us 'Zonies, we get to decide for ourselves which teams we do and don't support.

Hawkeroo1980
02-27-2006, 04:04 PM
So you don't think consistently drawing over 2 million every year is a big deal? Good for you. And you "resent" Arizona having an NFL team. Resent away. (BTW, just for the record, you're the one who hijacked this thread and turned it into a platform for airing your negative views about Arizona fans. I originally posted a positive article about the White Sox.)

But back to current events: As I see it, you made a statement about the D'Backs and their fan base that was not supported by facts and I called you on it. You can deal with it. Or you can just ignore the facts because they do not support your viewpoint.

I was not trying to draw your ire, but as long as I apparently have, let me tell you what draws MY ire. It's when someone states an opinion and tries to make it look like a fact. Arizona "doesn't support the D'Backs," it "shouldn't have 4 sports teams," etc. Those are your opinions. They are not facts and you can repeat them as often as you want to; they still won't be.

Finally, I'm glad you don't expect people who live here to abandon their allegiances to their favorite teams. Thanks very much. Fortunately for us 'Zonies, we get to decide for ourselves which teams we do and don't support.


I don't want to sound rash--- but do you realize every reply you make avoids the "cardinal issue" (pardon the pun)

Can you explain to me why Arizona deserves the cardinals?

And no--- i don't believe barely going over 2 million for a team that won the WS 5 years ago counts as "support". I guess thats just my "opinions"

You're right, Arizona is the sports Mecca of the nation......i give up. Go rattlers!

MarySwiss
02-27-2006, 04:35 PM
I don't want to sound rash--- but do you realize every reply you make avoids the "cardinal issue" (pardon the pun)

Can you explain to me why Arizona deserves the cardinals?

And no--- i don't believe barely going over 2 million for a team that won the WS 5 years ago counts as "support". I guess thats just my "opinions"

You're right, Arizona is the sports Mecca of the nation......i give up. Go rattlers!

First off, I believe I said in an earlier post that you made some valid points. I also at no time asserted the Cardinals got support from their fans. They don't. You are the one that chose to turn the discussion into a negative one about Arizona sports fans in general.

And no, I can't explain to you why Arizona deserves the Cardinals. I can't explain why ANYONE deserves the Cardinals. I personally don't talk about the Cardinals because I couldn't care less about them. I root for them when they're playing anyone but the Bears, but they are consistently pathetic and I refuse to support a pathetic team. Being a Sox fan and from Chicago, you should be able to understand that.

And nice touch with the "Arizona sports Mecca" crack. There's nothing like a mature, well-thought-out rejoinder. And believe me, that was nothing like one.

BTW, if the Cardinals all-of-a-sudden turned into an insane, ass-kicking football juggernaut, I would still root for the Bears first and foremost.

And good luck with those resentment issues. I'm done with this discussion. :cool:

Hawkeroo1980
02-27-2006, 04:54 PM
First off, I believe I said in an earlier post that you made some valid points. I also at no time asserted the Cardinals got support from their fans. They don't. You are the one that chose to turn the discussion into a negative one about Arizona sports fans in general.

And no, I can't explain to you why Arizona deserves the Cardinals. I can't explain why ANYONE deserves the Cardinals. I personally don't talk about the Cardinals because I couldn't care less about them. I root for them when they're playing anyone but the Bears, but they are consistently pathetic and I refuse to support a pathetic team. Being a Sox fan and from Chicago, you should be able to understand that.

And nice touch with the "Arizona sports Mecca" crack. There's nothing like a mature, well-thought-out rejoinder. And believe me, that was nothing like one.

BTW, if the Cardinals all-of-a-sudden turned into an insane, ass-kicking football juggernaut, I would still root for the Bears first and foremost.

And good luck with those resentment issues. I'm done with this discussion. :cool:

i gotta be honest with ya--- i haven't the slightest idea what a "rejoinder" is so i can't retaliate.:?:

Since you are done discussing this topic, I will talk to the wall for a second....regarding your comments.

my main discussion that caught your interest was the cardinals topic. My thoughts on arizona "fans" are drawn mostly from the Cardinals lack of support.

you said yourself that they are a pathetic team and you refuse to suppot them. you also said that even if they turned into a phenominal team.... you would still root for the bears.....ok......?

So do you love proving your points wrong or is it just my birthday? :bandance:

My original point was that Arizona doesn't deserve an NFL team.--- your mindset on that team is what most Arizonites or arizonians (whatever) think about this football team.

Good or bad--- support the team !!!! Since nobody does....then how do they deserve an NFL team in the first place?

Like I said before----- good or bad, the cardinals would be appreciated in another city that needs a team......since arizona is does not seem equiped to handle supporting an NFL team.....I find fault with that. You are just sticking up for your own personal reasons......but you know I'm right.

i won this argument like three days ago. I am done now. too many things to do.

P.S.-- their new stadium looks amazing. Would have looked better in St.Louis or L.A.:angry: