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thomas35forever
02-23-2006, 10:17 PM
This story is coming out of espn.com:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2342377

DumpJerry
02-23-2006, 10:58 PM
...and he's still whining about the alleged treatment the Sox gave him.

Knock me over with a feather about his ankle. Nobody has cleared him medically to play baseball, I was wondering what BB was thinking when he signed him.

doublem23
02-23-2006, 11:02 PM
Knock me over with a feather about his ankle. Nobody has cleared him medically to play baseball, I was wondering what BB was thinking when he signed him.

Lots and lots of incentives. Frank's base salary is miniscule. If he could get healthy, his upside is tremendous.

Frankfan4life
02-23-2006, 11:13 PM
According to an Associated Press article on ESPN.com, Frank Thomas is not ready for spring training. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2342377
Thomas won't be able to take part in workouts until the team's doctors check out an MRI exam of his surgically repaired left ankle, and he said he plans to spend most of the spring hitting in "B" games with minor-leaguers.Thomas hasn't been cleared to run yet and hasn't even hit in a cage or off a tee since July. He said he puts a lot of stress on his left foot when hitting, which is why he has taken precautions to make sure the ankle has healed.Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't he supposed to be ready for rehab six to eight weeks after being put in a cast? I hate to say it but I'm not very optimistic that Frank is going to be healthy enough to be an effective hitter or baserunner or play a full season.

UofCSoxFan
02-23-2006, 11:20 PM
Just about to post on this......I like how he still gives a parting shot to the sox at the end saying how his story should have ended better than that........i mean c'mon this just validates Kenny's decision all the more.

I really liked Frank as a player, but just wish he'd go about his business without this "I was robbed, I was screwed" song and dance. I'm sick of it.

DumpJerry
02-23-2006, 11:21 PM
Mods:merger time.

Nellie_Fox
02-23-2006, 11:54 PM
The article doesn't say he's "still hurt." It says he hasn't been cleared to play yet. Big difference. **Note: Before the threads were merged, I was replying to the one titled "Frank still hurt"**

They had a little feature on him on WGN tonight. They showed him at spring training today. No sign of a limp or anything, and they said that he may be cleared to start hitting as soon as tomorrow.

Nellie_Fox
02-24-2006, 12:01 AM
Just about to post on this......I like how he still gives a parting shot to the sox at the end saying how his story should have ended better than that........i mean c'mon this just validates Kenny's decision all the more.How does it validate anything? His story should have ended better than this. None of us have any idea what, if any, effort Kenny made to contact Frank and talk to him about the situation.

I really liked Frank as a player, but just wish he'd go about his business without this "I was robbed, I was screwed" song and dance. I'm sick of it.He has never used either term. I swear, some of you must just be hoping he's done so there are no regrets from the Sox perspective.

mike squires
02-24-2006, 12:40 AM
I'm still hoping Frank has a good healthy year. Hope he is healthy for his first game back in May. I will gladly stand and cheer for him.

Frankfan4life
02-24-2006, 02:11 AM
How does it validate anything? His story should have ended better than this. None of us have any idea what, if any, effort Kenny made to contact Frank and talk to him about the situation.

He has never used either term. I swear, some of you must just be hoping he's done so there are no regrets from the Sox perspective.Frank Thomas is my favorite Sox player of all time. Most Sox fans hated that he was let go and how he was let go. Of course I wish him the best but I still wonder how he'll perform. After all, he still has a surgically repaired ankle with a couple of screws holding it together and he injured it again.

And I think Frank could have been more gracious to the fans of Chicago upon his exit even though he left on bad terms with management. I was expecting him to be more grateful for the support he received from the fans during his 16 years in Chicago rather than focusing on his disappointment with management. So, it's true that some fans are a bit angry with Frank but just as you can justify Frank's bitterness about how he was let go, you should also be able to understand that some fans feel let down by Frank and the Sox, too.

UofCSoxFan
02-24-2006, 02:30 AM
How does it validate anything? His story should have ended better than this. None of us have any idea what, if any, effort Kenny made to contact Frank and talk to him about the situation.

He has never used either term. I swear, some of you must just be hoping he's done so there are no regrets from the Sox perspective.

It validates things because a MAJOR reason why Kenny did not pick up Frank for 9 or 10 mil is that there were big questions revolving around his health. When Frank was let go he was adimit about the fact that he was healthy. Now we find out that he is in fact not healthy.

While this whole time Frank maybe hasn't used the phrase "I was screwed" if you want to take it literally, he has said as much through his commnets. He feels like the Sox somehow owe him something. They don't. If Frank wanted to stay here so bad he could have. I am sure that the Sox would have kept him for a leaugue minimum contract if Frank was willing to do so.

This is a business. Frank is rich because of the White Sox. They honored him the best they could on his way out. They let him throw out the first pitch in the playoffs, they put him at the front of the parade, etc...I don't konw how people can say things SHOULD have ended better. There is a differance in saying thiings SHOULD have ended better or I WISH things hand ended better. I think most friends would have wished Frank to end his career hitting the game winning home run in the world series. Yet to say things SHOULD have ended better implies an injustice has occured. Which is not the case.

I don't know about you, but the way I see it we have a legit shot at another World Series and I'm not willing to lessen our odds as a tribute to Frank Thomas.

In any case, nothing will change the fact that Frank is not a White Sox anymore. I don't understand why he continues to take shots at the Sox.

dickallen15
02-24-2006, 06:42 AM
One of his complaints was that KW didn't consider activating him for the playoffs. Here it is 4 months later and the Oakland doctors won't let him take batting practice yet. His whining about the White Sox has really turned into a joke.

Flight #24
02-24-2006, 08:13 AM
It validates things because a MAJOR reason why Kenny did not pick up Frank for 9 or 10 mil is that there were big questions revolving around his health. When Frank was let go he was adimit about the fact that he was healthy. Now we find out that he is in fact not healthy.And remember - Frank has repeatedly said that while he disagrees with the decision, it was their right to make it. He's not complaining about that, more about how it was handled. The greatest player in franchise history IMO deserves more than a phone call AFTER you've made moves based on cutting him loose. He deserves a call to tell him up front that you think the team can't rely on him and needs to move on.

While this whole time Frank maybe hasn't used the phrase "I was screwed" if you want to take it literally, he has said as much through his commnets. He feels like the Sox somehow owe him something. They don't. If Frank wanted to stay here so bad he could have. I am sure that the Sox would have kept him for a leaugue minimum contract if Frank was willing to do so.

No one knows because the Sox never even discussed it with him. Which is basically his issue. Per both sides, there were no discussions until AFTER they traded for Thome. That is his problem.

This is a business. Frank is rich because of the White Sox. They honored him the best they could on his way out. They let him throw out the first pitch in the playoffs, they put him at the front of the parade, etc...I don't konw how people can say things SHOULD have ended better. There is a differance in saying thiings SHOULD have ended better or I WISH things hand ended better. I think most friends would have wished Frank to end his career hitting the game winning home run in the world series. Yet to say things SHOULD have ended better implies an injustice has occured. Which is not the case.

I don't know about you, but the way I see it we have a legit shot at another World Series and I'm not willing to lessen our odds as a tribute to Frank Thomas.

Go back and re-read his initial statements. He says he "understands" that the Sox felt they had to make the move even though he disagrees with them. What he is upset about is that he basically got the same treatment that Willie Harris, Carl Everett, or even Aaron Rowand got - finding out about what was happening after the fact. When you're cutting loose the greatest player in franchise history, you have many options about how to do it. The classiest and most gracious way is to give him a heads up that you think the org needs to move on (which by the way would give him the opportunity to say "Hey - I'll stay cheap if that's what it's about"). Frank was never afforded that courtesy or opportunity - and that's even per KW.

They made the right decision, but it was handled in a pretty poor way on the Sox part. Frank hasn't exactly kept himself above it all, but he's got a pretty legit beef here.

Flight #24
02-24-2006, 09:38 AM
Just following up with Frank's actual comments:


''''I was still a little uncomfortable going and being around everybody after everything that happened,'' he said. ''I couldn't go there and act like everything was fine, because it wasn't fine in my eyes. The chapter had to close a little better than that.

A player chosen the [franchise's] century No. 1 player, and you don't even get a call to tell you you're leaving? I felt I should have gotten a little more respect. I felt if they wanted to get rid of me, that's fine -- just call and let me know.''
Despite signs the Sox planned to cut ties with Thomas after their World Series triumph, the Big Hurt was still stung by the parting. ''I planned on retiring there, but it didn't work out,'' he said. ''I can't feel any bitterness ... but it's a little different when you leave and you know you could still be there.''

This is the greatest player in Sox history. A player who put up first-ballot caliber Hall of Fame numbers for the team. And they didn't even give him the courtesy of informing him they'd go in a different direction. That's the issue, not the decision itself.

Trav
02-24-2006, 10:08 AM
...and he's still whining about the alleged treatment the Sox gave him.

Knock me over with a feather about his ankle. Nobody has cleared him medically to play baseball, I was wondering what BB was thinking when he signed him.

I am sure someone asked him about it again. I doubt he is bringing it up on his own. He feels the same way as he did a month ago. Why are you complaining about that now?

Hitmen77
02-24-2006, 10:23 AM
Just following up with Frank's actual comments:




This is the greatest player in Sox history. A player who put up first-ballot caliber Hall of Fame numbers for the team. And they didn't even give him the courtesy of informing him they'd go in a different direction. That's the issue, not the decision itself.

Do you really know that? Were you a part of Frank's or KW's inner circle? Sorry i don't mean that to sound sarcastic, but that just sounds like Frank's side of the story. It may be accurate and it may be way off base. We don't know and quite frankly (no pun intended) I'm just not interested in this "he said, he said" between Frank and the Sox. I don't think any of us will ever know if KW gave him enough notification. My opinion, based on Frank's history of feeling perpetually slighted, is that Frank would have been unhappy no matter how the Sox cut him loose.

I will always fondly remember Thomas as the greatest player in Sox history. But, to be honest, all I'm interested in right now is the Sox's chances to repeat in 2006. And right now I feel much better about the Sox with Jim Thome as our DH than I would if we had Frank Thomas as our only viable DH for the upcoming season. If Frank wants to prove the Sox wrong, he should do it with his bat, not his mouth.

Hitmen77
02-24-2006, 10:30 AM
I am sure someone asked him about it again. I doubt he is bringing it up on his own. He feels the same way as he did a month ago. Why are you complaining about that now?

I'm sure you are right. But, Frank could just say "No comment" or "I'm focused on playing for the A's now and not on the past". But Frank can never keep his foot out of his mouth and unfortunately reporters know they can easily goad him into more whining.

Look for more of the same when he plays his first regular season game and certainly when he visits Chicago in May. :(:

Flight #24
02-24-2006, 10:40 AM
Do you really know that? Were you a part of Frank's or KW's inner circle? Sorry i don't mean that to sound sarcastic, but that just sounds like Frank's side of the story. It may be accurate and it may be way off base. We don't know and quite frankly (no pun intended) I'm just not interested in this "he said, he said" between Frank and the Sox. I don't think any of us will ever know if KW gave him enough notification. My opinion, based on Frank's history of feeling perpetually slighted, is that Frank would have been unhappy no matter how the Sox cut him loose.



Well, KW's said that, and Frank's said that. Those being the 2 principals, I figure since they basically agree on what happened that's likely the facts.

KW's said that he called Frank after they traded for Thome. But he's also never disputed that he didn't call him earlier and that they didn't even want to give Frank a physical to gauge the progress of healing at the end of the playoffs. His only comment is that they tried to do nice things for Frank during the playoffs & parade.

Again - it was 100% the correct decision, but handled in about as poor a manner as I could imagine short of actually lying to Frank. The greatest player in team history didn't even get a "Frank, we need to move on because we can't rely on you", he just got silence and then a call to say "Hey - be just replaced you, good luck!". That ain't right.

NoNeckEra
02-24-2006, 10:49 AM
Again - it was 100% the correct decision, but handled in about as poor a manner as I could imagine short of actually lying to Frank. The greatest player in team history didn't even get a "Frank, we need to move on because we can't rely on you", he just got silence and then a call to say "Hey - be just replaced you, good luck!". That ain't right.
Why is it that when it comes to "handling" Frank, he always comes away saying he's been treated without respect, or misunderstood, or treated rudely, or poorly, or whatever. I'm gonna side with Kenny on this one. Something tells me Kenny got tired of handling Frank with kid gloves and probably reached out for him, didn't get a return call(as usual) and didn't reach out for him again. Frank's track record speaks for itself both on the field and off. Great all-time Sox player, and all-time whiner.

Hangar18
02-24-2006, 10:52 AM
Nellie Fox said it right earlier in this thread. The Story only says he isnt ready yet .............implying he wont be ready in time, when in fact he will probably get his clearance to start playing in the next few days.

areilly
02-24-2006, 10:54 AM
Don't MLB tampering rules prevent GM's, owners, and managers from discussing their pursuits of players with other players and the press? Wouldn't telling Frank "hey, you're hurt a lot these days, we've needed a dynamite left-handed bat for some time and we're going to get one named Jim Thome from the Phillies and that's the reason we're letting you go this year?"

Cry me a river, Frank. You threw out the first pitch of the playoffs. You've made tens of millions of dollars. You've got thousands of people walking around Chicago (and the rest of the country) wearing shirts that have your name on the back. You got to speak at the downtown parade even though you had fewer at-bats in 2005 than Willie Harris and fewer 2005 postseason RBI's than Chris Widger. Your picture is hanging over the main entrance to the stadium and they even named one of the food stands after you.

What else do you want? Paulie to learn to hit lefty? Rename USCF to Thomas Field? A huge press conference extolling the virtues of Big Frank? Have the league retire number 35?

I don't know KW's side of it, don't care to. I do know Frank's side of it though, and I also know he sounds like a ****ing baby. Teams move on. Fans move on. The game moves on. Why can't Frank?

Yes, he was the real MVP in 2000. He's also been effectively crippled since 2004. I wouldn't re-sign him.

NoNeckEra
02-24-2006, 11:04 AM
Don't MLB tampering rules prevent GM's, owners, and managers from discussing their pursuits of players with other players and the press? Wouldn't telling Frank "hey, you're hurt a lot these days, we've needed a dynamite left-handed bat for some time and we're going to get one named Jim Thome from the Phillies and that's the reason we're letting you go this year?"

Cry me a river, Frank. You threw out the first pitch of the playoffs. You've made tens of millions of dollars. You've got thousands of people walking around Chicago (and the rest of the country) wearing shirts that have your name on the back. You got to speak at the downtown parade even though you had fewer at-bats in 2005 than Willie Harris and fewer 2005 postseason RBI's than Chris Widger. Your picture is hanging over the main entrance to the stadium and they even named one of the food stands after you.

What else do you want? Paulie to learn to hit lefty? Rename USCF to Thomas Field? A huge press conference extolling the virtues of Big Frank? Have the league retire number 35?

I don't know KW's side of it, don't care to. I do know Frank's side of it though, and I also know he sounds like a ****ing baby. Teams move on. Fans move on. The game moves on. Why can't Frank?

Yes, he was the real MVP in 2000. He's also been effectively crippled since 2004. I wouldn't re-sign him.
You can put it on the board, yesssss! Home run areilly!

Chicken Dinner
02-24-2006, 11:45 AM
Just following up with Frank's actual comments:




This is the greatest player in Sox history. A player who put up first-ballot caliber Hall of Fame numbers for the team. And they didn't even give him the courtesy of informing him they'd go in a different direction. That's the issue, not the decision itself.

Frank knew the Sox weren't going to pick up 2006. The Sox have paid this guy very well over his career and I do recall Frank holding out on spring training because he wanted more money. He didn't call either, his agent did.

santo=dorf
02-24-2006, 11:48 AM
Just following up with Frank's actual comments:




This is the greatest player in Sox history. A player who put up first-ballot caliber Hall of Fame numbers for the team. And they didn't even give him the courtesy of informing him they'd go in a different direction. That's the issue, not the decision itself.

....and didn't KW say at Soxfest and to the presses that he did try to get in touch with him?

Nellie_Fox
02-24-2006, 11:51 AM
It validates things because a MAJOR reason why Kenny did not pick up Frank for 9 or 10 mil is that there were big questions revolving around his health.I don't think anyone expected the Sox to pick up the option. What I would have like to have seen was an offer of minimal dollars, loaded with incentives, something like the A's gave him. If he turned it down, fine. At least then he would have left on his own terms, with some dignity. Just paying him off and showing him the door was cold.

santo=dorf
02-24-2006, 11:54 AM
I don't think anyone expected the Sox to pick up the option. What I would have like to have seen was an offer of minimal dollars, loaded with incentives, something like the A's gave him. If he turned it down, fine. At least then he would have left on his own terms, with some dignity. Just paying him off and showing him the door was cold.
....and if he takes that offer it causes more problems for the team because his health is such a big question mark.

I like how you're so pessimistic about Thome and his health yet you're praising Thomas for not walking around with a limp in a "little" segment.

Give me a break.

TDog
02-24-2006, 12:22 PM
I don't think anyone expected the Sox to pick up the option. What I would have like to have seen was an offer of minimal dollars, loaded with incentives, something like the A's gave him. If he turned it down, fine. At least then he would have left on his own terms, with some dignity. Just paying him off and showing him the door was cold.

Such a contract offer would have been considered an insult as well, especially with Thome and Konerko at 1B/DH. Thomas essentially had a choice of signing with the A's or retiring.

I loved Frank Thomas as a player for the Sox, but he hasn't really been there for the Sox since 2003. Any signs that things would improve in 2005 were dashed in 2006. If the Sox were a losing franchise, which they know longer seem to be, they would have signed him for 2006 instead of seeking a better hitter to take his place.

Honestly, I don't care if Thomas ever plays another game.

flo-B-flo
02-24-2006, 12:28 PM
Frank is the greatest hitter in Sox history. I'd like to remember him for this and his role in some great Sox seasons. Everyone KNEW he was not going to be resigned. He knew and we knew. Personally I have moved on. He's now an Oakland A. I'm just wondering, when is he gonna stop ripping the Sox? I don't want to remember him as the big guy spewing sour grapes. One way I'll do this is by not reading his comments anymore. If I want to hear or read negative nabobing about the Sox I'll have it with the c-- fans in my family.

Flight #24
02-24-2006, 12:37 PM
Frank knew the Sox weren't going to pick up 2006. The Sox have paid this guy very well over his career and I do recall Frank holding out on spring training because he wanted more money. He didn't call either, his agent did.

Actually, you remember incorrectly. The "holdout" consisted of Frank coming into camp early, then "walking out" and reporting with the rest of the guys ON TIME. Frank has never held out or not honored his contract.

This isn't about the Sox not picking up his option. Hell - it's not even about them not resigning him. It's quite simply about them treating him as if he was any old ordinary player. The greatest player in franchise history and first ballot hall of famer deserves better.

And for the record: KW has said he told Konerko he was going after Thome. He just didn't have the class to tell Frank "hey big guy, you've meant a lot to the team, but we have to look for a more reliable and possibly lefty bat". Instead it was "hey Frank - we just replaced you", and that likely after Frank had already heard the news elsewhere.

None of these facts are in dispute folks - KW has basically told the same story. His version just adds that they tried to do nice things for Frank during the playoffs & parade. That may be so, but it doesn't excuse treating your franchise player like an NRI when it comes to cutting ties with him. As for Frank continually bringing it up, you can bet money that it started with someone asking him "so - does it motivate you that the Sox replaced you? How do you feel about that".

Hitmen77
02-24-2006, 12:37 PM
Well, KW's said that, and Frank's said that. Those being the 2 principals, I figure since they basically agree on what happened that's likely the facts.
KW said he basically agreed that he failed to properly notify Thomas of the team's intentions? :?: Can you cite an article that says this?
Here's what ESPN's article says:
White Sox general manager Kenny Williams said last month that the team tried its best to make sure Thomas' relationship ended in a "first-class manner."


KW's said that he called Frank after they traded for Thome. But he's also never disputed that he didn't call him earlier and that they didn't even want to give Frank a physical to gauge the progress of healing at the end of the playoffs. His only comment is that they tried to do nice things for Frank during the playoffs & parade.

I don't see how that "proves" that KW handled this in an unprofessional manner. By your logic, just because KW won't stoop to Frank's level and get into a bickering match, that proves that everything Frank says is correct.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-24-2006, 12:39 PM
:maggs
"I've got a 12 month headstart on Frank ripping the team!"

Seriously, I doubt Frank will ever stop putting his foot in his mouth. Incorrigible sports mediots like Tailgunner Joe know exactly what buttons to push to get Frank to say things he later regrets. Thank God Jim Thome appears bright enough to know how to manipulate the media like Frank never could.

I trust Frank will mellow on this subject soon enough. Unfortunately he'll probably get in trouble for something else, and the cycle will continue though not necessarily concerning the Sox.

He'll go into the hall wearing a Sox cap in spite of Tailgunner Joe's best efforts.

:cool:

Lip Man 1
02-24-2006, 12:47 PM
I did find interesting in the AP story that Frank is quoted as saying he doesn't have an injury history.

I guess that depends on your point of view but Frank has had three significant injuries since the 2001 season causing him to miss a great deal of time.

Going back to his first major injury (1996) he's had five in his career.

Is that an injury history? I don't know but the trend does seem to show that his body is beginning (or continuing) to break down.

Lip

Flight #24
02-24-2006, 12:57 PM
KW said he basically agreed that he failed to properly notify Thomas of the team's intentions? :?: Can you cite an article that says this?
Here's what ESPN's article says:
White Sox general manager Kenny Williams said last month that the team tried its best to make sure Thomas' relationship ended in a "first-class manner."




I don't see how that "proves" that KW handled this in an unprofessional manner. By your logic, just because KW won't stoop to Frank's level and get into a bickering match, that proves that everything Frank says is correct.

No, what KW said is that he tried to notify Frank by calling him after the Thome trade. Not that he had discussions with him to let him know they'd be moving on, or tried to "notify him of his intentions", that after they'd already done so, he called to let him know it was done. Which is 100% consistent with what Frank said.

SoxFan76
02-24-2006, 01:22 PM
...and he's still whining about the alleged treatment the Sox gave him.

Knock me over with a feather about his ankle. Nobody has cleared him medically to play baseball, I was wondering what BB was thinking when he signed him.

I'm a completely biased Frank Thomas fan...but is the injury risk with Frank any greater than Thome? They're both older sluggers coming off injuries. I thought the Sox treated Frank like **** in this case.

kevin57
02-24-2006, 01:47 PM
It could well be argued that the Sox organization did not handle Frank with the respect he deserved for all the loyalty and greatness he brought to the team. At the same time, it seems to me that there are a lot of "Frank apologists" who can't bring themselves to criticize anything he says or does anytime. At the very least, it should be acknowledged that this latest salvo from Frank should not be defended. You're with the "A's," Frank. Hope you do well. Hope you're healthy. Now, shut up and play ball!

NoNeckEra
02-24-2006, 01:52 PM
It could well be argued that the Sox organization did not handle Frank with the respect he deserved for all the loyalty and greatness he brought to the team. At the same time, it seems to me that there are a lot of "Frank apologists" who can't bring themselves to criticize anything he says or does anytime. At the very least, it should be acknowledged that this latest salvo from Frank should not be defended. You're with the "A's," Frank. Hope you do well. Hope you're healthy. Now, shut up and play ball! Here here! or is it Hear, Hear!

Nellie_Fox
02-24-2006, 02:11 PM
It could well be argued that the Sox organization did not handle Frank with the respect he deserved for all the loyalty and greatness he brought to the team. At the same time, it seems to me that there are a lot of "Frank apologists" who can't bring themselves to criticize anything he says or does anytime. At the very least, it should be acknowledged that this latest salvo from Frank should not be defended. You're with the "A's," Frank. Hope you do well. Hope you're healthy. Now, shut up and play ball!If you call Frank saying he thought it could have been handled better "a salvo," well then...

I have talked very little about Thome, other than acknowledging that he has been hurt, and I'm waiting to see how well he can do coming off an injury at his age. There is no question that Frank is at least as big a question, and maybe more. However, it is a fact that the Sox rushed to throw huge money at Thome while not even giving Frank an "insulting" offer.

Here's an idea: how about not opening up a thread ripping on Frank every time he says anything, and those of us who think it wasn't handled well won't have anything to respond to.

Mickster
02-24-2006, 02:29 PM
Just following up with Frank's actual comments:




This is the greatest player in Sox history. A player who put up first-ballot caliber Hall of Fame numbers for the team. And they didn't even give him the courtesy of informing him they'd go in a different direction. That's the issue, not the decision itself.

Be careful about hearing one side of the story. I heard from a reliable source that KW did, in fact, call him and he never returned his call. Not the first time that this has happened.

Flight #24
02-24-2006, 11:24 PM
Be careful about hearing one side of the story. I heard from a reliable source that KW did, in fact, call him and he never returned his call. Not the first time that this has happened.

The quote I saw from KW on that was that after the Thome trade, he called Frank, and never got a call back. That's my recollection of a direct KW quote.

Doesn't mean he didn't do more earlier, but that's all I've seen actually said. When discussing how he DID try to "deal" with Frank, KW's always mentioned onlythe stuff during the playoffs. At least that's all I've seen & heard from him.

fusillirob1983
02-24-2006, 11:42 PM
From everything I've read, it seems that Kenny had the courtesy to call him but not to give him a physical and see how the injury was coming along. So Kenny could have told the truth and Frank could have a legit reason to be upset.

IowaSox1971
02-25-2006, 03:49 AM
The Frank Thomas who is complaining about "not getting a phone call" is the same Frank Thomas who, when Ozzie was named manager after the 2003 season, basically made himself unavailable for phone calls from the Sox organization until spring training began in 2004. I remember that the Sun-Times even sent a reporter out to Las Vegas in an effort to track Frank down that winter, and the reporter gave up after about a week. When Frank reported for spring training in 2004, he said he didn't think it was a big deal that he failed to return any of Ozzie's calls or KW's calls. But now Frank tries to pull the woe-is-me act and accuses the organization of not keeping in touch. How pathetic.

Why do people worry so much about what this spoiled athlete thinks? Frank said he never would have thrown out the first pitch at a postseason game or gone to the World Series parade if he had known the Sox wouldn't bring him back. So, basically, he only did that stuff so he could earn some brownie points with management for a new contract. He did not care about being there for the fans. He does not care about the fans. So, why should fans care if his feelings were hurt?

Frank still is a very good hitter and he was a great player during most of his time with the Sox. What he seems to forget, though, is that for three of his final five years with the team, he was paid many millions even though he missed more than half the season. He barely played in 2001 or 2005, and he also played less than half the season in 2004. Instead of ripping the organization every chance he gets, he should be grateful for being one of the highest-paid players on the team the past five years while his production was not at that level. He has not batted better than .271 since the 2000 season. He has hit more than 18 homers just twice in that span. During that time, there have been contract disputes as well as tiffs with Manuel, Konerko and Kenny Williams, etc., etc., etc.

And how many behind-the-scenes disputes were there that we don't know about?

Steelrod
02-25-2006, 07:30 AM
It could well be argued that the Sox organization did not handle Frank with the respect he deserved for all the loyalty and greatness he brought to the team. At the same time, it seems to me that there are a lot of "Frank apologists" who can't bring themselves to criticize anything he says or does anytime. At the very least, it should be acknowledged that this latest salvo from Frank should not be defended. You're with the "A's," Frank. Hope you do well. Hope you're healthy. Now, shut up and play ball!
Getting 8.5 million to play thirty games after making 8 million to play 70 games. IF THAT ISN'T RESPECT, WHAT IS IT?

Steelrod
02-25-2006, 07:31 AM
From everything I've read, it seems that Kenny had the courtesy to call him but not to give him a physical and see how the injury was coming along. So Kenny could have told the truth and Frank could have a legit reason to be upset.
Would it be wrong to assume the team doctor did his surgery, or was kept in touch by the doctor who did?

GoSox2K3
02-25-2006, 09:11 AM
Here's an idea: how about not opening up a thread ripping on Frank every time he says anything, and those of us who think it wasn't handled well won't have anything to respond to.

KILL THE MESSENGER!!!

Frank's the one who brought this up again, not us.

kevin57
02-25-2006, 09:29 AM
Getting 8.5 million to play thirty games after making 8 million to play 70 games. IF THAT ISN'T RESPECT, WHAT IS IT?

No doubt Frank can't complain about the money. Also, the Sox did honor him considerably in the post-season festivities. However, if you read many posts in this thread and in numerous other threads since October, it seems as least possible that Frank did not receive the kind of face-to-face, honest communication from the front office brass about where the team was going and how FT just wouldn't fit into that mold. IF that is true, then as someone who had given so much to the Sox, he deserved at least that.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-25-2006, 09:35 AM
KILL THE MESSENGER!!!

Frank's the one who brought this up again, not us.

Kill the messenger, indeed. Did you even bother to read the AP article?
:?:

Thomas still has lingering bitterness about the way his 16-year tenure in Chicago ended, saying the team should have called him to tell him he was being cut loose. He said he's getting past that now but wasn't ready to join his old teammates at the White House earlier this month to celebrate the World Series title.


"I was still a little uncomfortable going and being around everybody after everything that happened," he said. "I couldn't go there and act like everything was fine, because it wasn't fine in my eyes. The chapter had to close a little better than that."

Frank explained why he didn't go to the White House. Last I checked there were quite a few other White Sox players and coaches who didn't go for reasons far more flimsy than Frank's.

Frank is mellowing about the controversy, but clearly quite a few of you posting here haven't mellowed in the least.

soxinem1
02-25-2006, 09:40 AM
Do you really know that? Were you a part of Frank's or KW's inner circle? Sorry i don't mean that to sound sarcastic, but that just sounds like Frank's side of the story. It may be accurate and it may be way off base. We don't know and quite frankly (no pun intended) I'm just not interested in this "he said, he said" between Frank and the Sox. I don't think any of us will ever know if KW gave him enough notification. My opinion, based on Frank's history of feeling perpetually slighted, is that Frank would have been unhappy no matter how the Sox cut him loose.

I will always fondly remember Thomas as the greatest player in Sox history. But, to be honest, all I'm interested in right now is the Sox's chances to repeat in 2006. And right now I feel much better about the Sox with Jim Thome as our DH than I would if we had Frank Thomas as our only viable DH for the upcoming season. If Frank wants to prove the Sox wrong, he should do it with his bat, not his mouth.

I'm inclined to believe Frank on this one. Since Reinsdorf has owned the team this type of player dismissal, ala Dave Schmidt, Carlton Fisk, Joey Cora, Robin Ventura, to name a few, has been way too common. That list does not even include Donn Pall, the life ling Sox fan who pitched well for the Sox and was traded from a playoff team to a playoff team after post season rosters were finalized, then banned from entering the park when he came back as a fan to congratulate his former teammmates. Bush league BS all the way.

I agree that Frank is airing out a few zingers here, and as usual should keep a lid on a few of these comments, but it's only human to feel bitter when you have stuck and persevered with your original team so long in a sport not known for that anymore, and get discarded like an old pair of socks (no pun intended) after giving so much to an organization that had been starving for a player like him since, well, their inception.

As with the other cases noted above, this should have been handled with a little more class.

fusillirob1983
02-25-2006, 10:18 AM
Would it be wrong to assume the team doctor did his surgery, or was kept in touch by the doctor who did?

You can assume that if you'd like. I'm not saying he was offered a physical or not, but nothing was reported about it, so I'm not assuming it happened.

Mickster
02-25-2006, 10:23 AM
You can assume that if you'd like. I'm not saying he was offered a physical or not, but nothing was reported about it, so I'm not assuming it happened.

Frank isn't even cleared to play as of Feb. 25. What did you want his doctors to say in the beginning of December?

santo=dorf
02-25-2006, 11:02 AM
Frank explained why he didn't go to the White House. Last I checked there were quite a few other White Sox players and coaches who didn't go for reasons far more flimsy than Frank's.
Cooper said the coaches weren't invited and said he wouldn't go there if he was invited again. Guillen was on vacation and was going to go to the White House if they held it at one of the two original dates (they rescheduled twice,) and some players had Visa problems.

MisterB
02-25-2006, 11:06 AM
Getting 8.5 million to play thirty games after making 8 million to play 70 games. IF THAT ISN'T RESPECT, WHAT IS IT?

Contractual obligation.

Hitmen77
02-25-2006, 11:32 AM
So long Frank, thanks for the memories, best of luck in Oakland (except when you play the Sox).

that being said, I won't miss his endless brooding. I have to admit that I like Jim Thome's attitude - he'll be a great addition to our clubhouse. Now here's hoping that Jim will return to pre-2005 form and make 2006 another season to remember.

johnny_mostil
02-25-2006, 11:59 AM
No doubt Frank can't complain about the money. Also, the Sox did honor him considerably in the post-season festivities. However, if you read many posts in this thread and in numerous other threads since October, it seems as least possible that Frank did not receive the kind of face-to-face, honest communication from the front office brass about where the team was going and how FT just wouldn't fit into that mold. IF that is true, then as someone who had given so much to the Sox, he deserved at least that.

Frank Thomas is not stupid. He knew full well where he stood, and he knew full well that the Byzantine rules of the CBA would keep him from playing for the White Sox after 2005 all along, especially after the second fracture.

However, what the head knows the heart often refuses to accept, and of course his feelings were deeply hurt. But if he doesn't like what happened, he needs to complain to his union, who bargained for complex rules that make it impossible for a star player like himself to stay with a team as a bit player because of the elaborate maximum-cut rules mixed with blackout rules for teams that don't offer salary arbitration. There was no way I can think of the Chicago White Sox could have had the luxury of Frank Thomas at market terms, because the union simply doesn't allow this.

If you think this is nasty, please consult the Houston Chronicle and read about the pathetic Astros-Bagwell situation, which makes the White Sox-Thomas situation look like a love-in. Bagwell's done, refuses to admit it, and is doing his best to make sure the Astros pay his salary and can't cash in on the insurance they probably should be able to collect.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-25-2006, 12:24 PM
Cooper said the coaches weren't invited and said he wouldn't go there if he was invited again. Guillen was on vacation and was going to go to the White House if they held it at one of the two original dates (they rescheduled twice,) and some players had Visa problems.

You could have summed this up with one word: flimsy.

fusillirob1983
02-25-2006, 12:42 PM
Frank isn't even cleared to play as of Feb. 25. What did you want his doctors to say in the beginning of December?

I'm not saying the Sox made the wrong choice in letting Frank go. I'm just saying they should have reported his status at the time. It's not like we'd know we were even going to have this discussion today. Clearly his status was bad. If that was reported, then I can see no good reason for Frank to be upset. I never heard anything about them checking on his status at that time though, that's all I'm saying. Maybe the Sox knew exactly what Frank's status was, but that info wasn't known to anyone else.

SouthSide_HitMen
02-25-2006, 12:45 PM
Cooper said the coaches weren't invited and said he wouldn't go there if he was invited again. Guillen was on vacation and was going to go to the White House if they held it at one of the two original dates (they rescheduled twice,) and some players had Visa problems.

I don't know where you received this info. 45 people from the White Sox (players, coaches, front office staff and announcers) went to the White House. Coaches were invited (maybe Cooper decided not to attend).

Harold Baines (bench coach) was there. Man Soo Lee was there. Coaches were invited. Families were not invited which is why Guillen didn't appear (not the political or other reasons speculated by media).

Steelrod
02-25-2006, 01:14 PM
Contractual obligation.
Then I guess it should be treated as a business.

Steelrod
02-25-2006, 01:20 PM
I'm not saying the Sox made the wrong choice in letting Frank go. I'm just saying they should have reported his status at the time. It's not like we'd know we were even going to have this discussion today. Clearly his status was bad. If that was reported, then I can see no good reason for Frank to be upset. I never heard anything about them checking on his status at that time though, that's all I'm saying. Maybe the Sox knew exactly what Frank's status was, but that info wasn't known to anyone else.
Maybe if you gave the Sox your -mail address, they'd report these things to you!
Frank Got 3.5 sendoff rather than 8.5 to stay. Contractual.
And I'm not so sure that Frank didn't know. His history is filled with gaps on detail. He always talked first, researched later.
He should have been as popular as MJ. It was his choice to start Big Hurt Enterprises, rather than trust marketing people to do their job. Complained about his bat deal, his shoe deal, etc. Maybe he just likes to complain!

Nellie_Fox
02-25-2006, 02:29 PM
Why do people worry so much about what this spoiled athlete thinks? Frank said he never would have thrown out the first pitch at a postseason game or gone to the World Series parade if he had known the Sox wouldn't bring him back. So, basically, he only did that stuff so he could earn some brownie points with management for a new contract. He did not care about being there for the fans. He does not care about the fans. So, why should fans care if his feelings were hurt?Interesting how we interpret things he says based on what we want to believe about him. When I heard this, I understood it to mean that had he known the Sox had no interest in bringing him back, he would not have felt like a part of the team, and thus would not want to participate.

I know that if I were in a situation where I knew I was done for this year, and I knew that they did not want me back the next year, I'd feel like an idiot being out there participating.

SoLongFrank
02-25-2006, 02:31 PM
Yes, MLB is a business but that business is built upon little boy dreams. Frank Thomas, Barry Bonds, Jeff Bagwell: what do they have in common? Franchise leaders. How do you say goodbye & thanks for the memories to such icons?

To be that good you have to have tremendous confidence in your talent. If you tell them they are too old, or too hurt to be stars they will rebel. That's all Frank has really done.

When you stop & think of both Magg's & Frank's comments what do they really mean? They both blame the White Sox for a divorce they didn't want. Being angry over it means they really cared about it.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AgRfIOkeQqiIA_KpGcUsRxARvLYF?slug=ap-athletics-thomas&prov=ap&type=lgns
"All signs point to Frank hitting off the tee and soft tosses Saturday," trainer Larry Davis said. "He's ready to go."

As for Thome trade until I see Anderson making web-gem, inning-ending, or game saving plays I'm still not sold on it. I welcome Thome's skill as a power LHB. I think he's a great player & should have enough AB's the next 3 yrs to justifiy the $22 million. But I think the web gems play a more important role in winning than the homers. I've yet to see Anderson make those kind of plays.

Simply put, Rowand was a proven run-saver. That's a hard talent to replace. As CFers in the NL East go, Rowand's the best run-saver there is.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-25-2006, 02:35 PM
Maybe if you gave the Sox your -mail address, they'd report these things to you!
Frank Got 3.5 sendoff rather than 8.5 to stay. Contractual.
I'm guessing you're only getting paid $2.5 million to put up a 16-year career .995 OPS at work. Those cheapskate bastards...


...Complained about his bat deal, his shoe deal, etc. Maybe he just likes to complain!
Physician, heal thyself.

Frankfan4life
02-25-2006, 02:52 PM
Frank explained why he didn't go to the White House. Last I checked there were quite a few other White Sox players and coaches who didn't go for reasons far more flimsy than Frank's.

Frank is mellowing about the controversy, but clearly quite a few of you posting here haven't mellowed in the least.Tell me how Frank has mellowed? I must have missed the quote in the article of him giving Sox fans credit for their support of him and his waxing nostalgic about the many good years he had playing for the White Sox. Crazy Carl, Willie, and even Rowand showed up at the White House after they were let go. I think you do stuff like that for the fans if nothing else. There are a lot of kids out there looking to see how these players handle success and adversity. Unfortunately, it seems that Frank can only handle success well. Life is tough, not just for Frank, who has made millions of dollars, but also for people who make far less money but have to face adversity in their lives and on their jobs.

I have a big-time problem with how the Sox let Frank go. It certainly should have been handled better. But it was a perfect time for Frank to make lemonade out of this situation, instead he chose to suck on the lemon. Like a lot of people on this board, I am critical of some of the things the Sox organization does, as in this case, but I'm still a Sox fan. I will not be changing my screen name because I'll always be a Frank Thomas fan because nothing Frank says will ever take away the years of enjoyment he gave me while playing for the Sox. I just hope he gets over his bitterness soon and shows the fans in Chicago that he's not just a big man in size only.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-25-2006, 02:55 PM
Tell me how Frank has mellowed?
Thomas still has lingering bitterness about the way his 16-year tenure in Chicago ended, saying the team should have called him to tell him he was being cut loose. He said he's getting past that now but wasn't ready to join his old teammates at the White House earlier this month to celebrate the World Series title.
Let me know if I have to quote this a third time for the remedial readers on the board.

fusillirob1983
02-25-2006, 04:08 PM
Maybe if you gave the Sox your -mail address, they'd report these things to you!

Smart comments like this aren't necessary, really. Typically, newspapers will report information in between all the garbage. Whether the Sox checked Frank's health or not is something that probably would have been reported if it happened.

Frank Got 3.5 sendoff rather than 8.5 to stay. Contractual.


My comments had nothing to do with paying Frank, only whether or not they checked his injury status.

Steelrod
02-25-2006, 07:03 PM
Smart comments like this aren't necessary, really. Typically, newspapers will report information in between all the garbage. Whether the Sox checked Frank's health or not is something that probably would have been reported if it happened.



My comments had nothing to do with paying Frank, only whether or not they checked his injury status.
My point was..
Just because you read something in the papers, doesn't make it fact. The only people who know the details are the Sox, Frank, or his agents.
Look no further than Bruce Levine who rushes to break stories, whether they are true or not. I personally believe half of what read, sometimes less based on the source.
Frank has always been up in arms about one thing or another. He sometimes says things and has to stand by them. Does anyone remember Frank ever retracting anything he has said. I don't. Do you believe he has been 100% accurate in his statements, I don't.

fusillirob1983
02-25-2006, 10:09 PM
My point was..
Just because you read something in the papers, doesn't make it fact. The only people who know the details are the Sox, Frank, or his agents.
Look no further than Bruce Levine who rushes to break stories, whether they are true or not. I personally believe half of what read, sometimes less based on the source.
Frank has always been up in arms about one thing or another. He sometimes says things and has to stand by them. Does anyone remember Frank ever retracting anything he has said. I don't. Do you believe he has been 100% accurate in his statements, I don't.

I never said he was accurate in all of his statements. All I have been basically saying is that we don't know whether or not he had the physical because nothing was said about it. I agree that the only ones that know anything are the Sox, Frank, and his agent. But I'm not going to say one person is right or the other isn't without knowing all the facts. I'm not defending Frank or the Sox, I'm saying there's not enough information to come to a conclusion. That has been my point since my first post in this thread.

SOXSINCE'70
02-25-2006, 10:55 PM
If you think this is nasty, please consult the Houston Chronicle and read about the pathetic Astros-Bagwell situation, which makes the White Sox-Thomas situation look like a love-in. Bagwell's done, refuses to admit it, and is doing his best to make sure the Astros pay his salary and can't cash in on the insurance they probably should be able to collect.

Exactly.As you mentioned earlier in this post,the heart and the head
are 2 different organs.Bagwell's heart says "I know I can still do this"
while inside his head,I hope he hears a voice asking him "who are you
kidding?".I still remember the interleague series where the 'Stros
came to Comiskey in 1999 and he homered 3 times.IN ONE GAME!!

Sadly for Astros fans,that man is a former shell of himself.:(:
Fortunately for White Sox fans,Bobby Jenks blew him away with
some nasty,nasty heat in game 1 of the 2005 WS.:cool: :cool:

gehrtsox7
02-26-2006, 01:33 AM
Maybe when we play Oakland Frank will come out to the field and demand that Kenny Williams will come down and face him once and for all. And then Frank will give him a "Stunner" and chug beers while all the sox fans cheer! We will see people in the crowd wearing "Frank 3.16" shirts!
... And then some Levy Restaurant employee will throw out the first pitch.
I can see it now...

Frankfan4life
02-26-2006, 11:37 AM
Let me know if I have to quote this a third time for the remedial readers on the board.No need for the insults. I read the whole article several times so that quote is familiar to me. We'll just have to agree to disagree on what we feel constitutes Frank being mellow.

TDog
02-26-2006, 12:00 PM
Players who deal with team through their agents really shouldn't expect personal sentiment, but Thomas has received more than his share from the Sox. Thomas had to know all along exactly how he stood wit ht he Sox. Really, he's lucky to have a baseball job at all, considering his age, limitations and recent injury history.

The Sox are building a team to compete for another title, not to give a player a shot at finishing his career with 500 home runs. Given the circumstances, I don't believe the could make priorities of both of those things.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-26-2006, 12:26 PM
No need for the insults. I read the whole article several times so that quote is familiar to me. We'll just have to agree to disagree on what we feel constitutes Frank being mellow.

I used (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1043648&postcount=46) the word "mellowing" not mellow. I also asserted that some here haven't mellowed in the least, a characterization that I believe fits your posts in this thread quite neatly. We'll just have to agree to disagree on who has reading comprehension issues.

The Wimperoo
02-26-2006, 12:38 PM
More from Frank in the Southtown today

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/261sd1.htm

TaylorStSox
02-26-2006, 01:06 PM
Maybe Frank should have ran into some walls to get respect from some Sox fans.

If he's unhappy, he has the right to speak his mind. I don't feel it's an indictment of him or the organization. These type of situations are common when a guy leaves a team that he was part of for 16 years. He has a right to be somewhat bitter. It's only natural. When he retires, everything will take care of itself. He'll be a part of our organization in some capacity.


Honestly, I can't think of another athlete who's been the greatest player in one organization and treated the way Frank has. I'm talking about the fans treatment. We've all been to games where Frank's been boo'ed. He's been called names his whole career. Some fans have never liked him. It's an idictment of our fanbase. IMO, it's a black eye on this fanbase.

I care about the jersey more than the player. That will always be the case. However, I have to wonder about fans that adore an average player like Aaron Rowand while constantly criticizing a HOF like Big Frank.

Paulwny
02-26-2006, 01:57 PM
Honestly, I can't think of another athlete who's been the greatest player in one organization and treated the way Frank has. I'm talking about the fans treatment. We've all been to games where Frank's been boo'ed. He's been called names his whole career. Some fans have never liked him. It's an idictment of our fanbase. IMO, it's a black eye on this fanbase. .
[/COLOR]

Ted Williams had a similar relationship with red sox fans and press, a love/hate feeling with their teams' greatest players.

TaylorStSox
02-26-2006, 02:01 PM
Ted Williams had a similar relationship with red sox fans and press, a love/hate feeling with their teams' greatest players.

That's before my time. You know what we all think of Red Sox fans though. :redneck

santo=dorf
02-26-2006, 02:02 PM
More from Frank in the Southtown today

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/261sd1.htm
He sure seems to be mellowing down!



Arvia: Realistically, they're not going to offer arbitration to a guy in a cast. Thomas: We knew that. But my agent (Arn Tellem) told me he had spoken to Jerry (Reinsdorf) and they were going to renegotiate the contract for one year. I had no problem with that. I had a $10 million option; I knew I wasn't going to get that next year. It wasn't even about the money. It was about that pride coming back. I thought they would restructure it and that would be it.
So why did you pick it up? Just to collect on the buyout? I thought it wasn't about the money. If a player has a team or player option, does one of the options have to be picked up?



Arvia: But why do that again? Why set up that situation again? That's the way I look at it. Thome's in the cage now, he's running ...
Thomas: Good.
Arvia: ... he's doing all that stuff ...
Thomas: Right.
Arvia: ... and you're not yet.
Thomas: Right. It's not that I can't do it. I can run right now.
Arvia: How are the Sox going to know that at the time? Thomas: Don't you think I deserve that respect to get that done? Been voted the century's No. 1 player in your organization? I own every record in that organization. Don't you think I should have deserved a little more respect than that?

So the organization is going to risk the DH spot (a weak spot for the Sox last season) and money just to take your word for it? It's not about respect Frank. It's about making smart decisions for your ball club based on health.



Arvia: It looks like they're starting to do that, though, with Paul Konerko, with Jon Garland (both of whom signed long-term deals during the offseason). Thomas: Well, that's fine. That's fine. But, realistically, you look at those guys' careers, are they going to have the topside of what we did over those 16 years? I mean, really? Having guys 21 years old? I mean, Robin (Ventura). Guys that could have been cornerstones forever in your organization. Alex Fernandez, Wilson Alvarez. It just continues. OK?

Well considering they're coming off a World Series victory, I would say they will have "the topside" over what Robin, Wilson, and Alex did over their entire careers.



Thomas: And you're talking to me right now like I'm 40 years old. I'm not 40 years old. I'm 37. I'm in my prime. You think about what Barry Bonds has done from the ages of 37 to 41. It shows you what a player 37 can do 37 to 40 are your prime years. Baseball is a game, from the ages of 35 to 40, you know so much more.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Why has your BA dropped some much over your career? More importantly, why have you missed so many games? It also doesn't help your case to side with a contreversial roider, and probably the #2 (behind Sosa) least favorite baseball player of Sox fans. Isn't Sosa 37 years old now? How's he handling his prime? Aside from Barroids Bonds, has any other slugger considered their prime years to be when they were older than 37?



Thomas: That's what I'm telling people. I had (105) at-bats and hit 12 home runs. Am I done? Are you kidding me? How many guys in the league did that last year? It wasn't about what I could do on the field, because I gave you 345 at-bats the last two years and calculate what I did in those 345 at-bats 30 home runs and (75) RBI. Am I done?
WOW. 345 at bats in two years during the prime of your career.
]Thomas does assume that he guessed he could play in the neighborhood of 130 games this season.[/COLOR]
Again, that does not sound like a player who is in the "prime" of their career.

I would have been better off in 2000 asking to be traded instead of sitting in that situation I did for that five years. After we lost to Seattle in the playoffs that year, I should have been traded.

Ahhh, the ole hindsight argument. I'm sure the fans you love so much are going to love hearing you say that. KW would be a deadman before opening day 2001 if he traded you.

How much more money does this crybaby want? He claims now in his prime it wasn't about the money, but then he brings up the past whining about how he should have had more money guaranteed because of previous accomplishments.

TaylorStSox
02-26-2006, 02:07 PM
He sure seems to be mellowing down!


So why did you pick it up? Just to collect on the buyout? I thought it wasn't about the money. If a player has a team or player option, does one of the options have to be picked up?


So the organization is going to risk the DH spot (a weak spot for the Sox last season) and money just to take your word for it? It's not about respect Frank. It's about making smart decisions for your ball club based on health.


Well considering they're coming off a World Series victory, I would say they will have "the topside" over what Robin, Wilson, and Alex did over their entire careers.


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Why has your BA dropped some much over your career? More importantly, why have you missed so many games? It also doesn't help your case to side with a contreversial roider, and probably the #2 (behind Sosa) least favorite baseball player of Sox fans. Isn't Sosa 37 years old now? How's he handling his prime? Aside from Barroids Bonds, has any other slugger considered their prime years to be when they were older than 37?


WOW. 345 at bats in two years during the prime of your career.
]Thomas does assume that he guessed he could play in the neighborhood of 130 games this season.[/COLOR]
Again, that does not sound like a player who is in the "prime" of their career.

Ahhh, the ole hindsight argument. I'm sure the fans you love so much are going to love hearing you say that. KW would be a deadman before opening day 2001 if he traded you.

How much more money does this crybaby want? He claims now in his prime it wasn't about the money, but then he brings up the past whining about how he should have had more money guaranteed because of previous accomplishments.

You're really going to pick apart everything the best player in our history says?

Does he not have a right to be a little bitter?

If you worked for a company for 16 years that laid you off for a better employee, would you be happy? It may be the right decision, but you still have the right to be a little bitter.

Your Thome/Frank watch is juvenile.

SoLongFrank
02-26-2006, 02:10 PM
More from Frank in the Southtown today

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/261sd1.htm
There are several revealing things here:
1. Frank's animosity is almost entirely directed towards Kenny & it stems from Kenny not guaranteeing the rest of the contract after 2000.

I have always sided with Frank on this because for most of the 1990's he was the face of the organization. He kept the White Sox as contenders after the strike year. Had the White Sox fallen into the cellar in those years who knows where it would be today. Frank almost single-handidly kept the White Sox in the public eye.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_n3_v85/ai_14556618 1995 - 1998 (club opt 99, 00) $42 mil.
That made Thomas the 2nd-highest paid player (Bond's $43.75 mil was 1st). Then in 1998 he signed an addition 6 yr
contract extension thru 2006 for $36 mil in cash, $24 mil deferred past 2006. Combined with the old contract the
White Sox owed Thomas $50 mil in cash, $24 mil deferred past 2006 for the next 8 yrs. There were two clauses that both
helped the team & Thomas. The first was the diminished skills clause. This gave the White Sox an opt out if Thomas should greatly tail off. Thomas felt that was near impossible coming off his 1997 season. The second was the trade clause. A team trading for Thomas for the 1998 season would have to pay him $78 mil / 8 yrs cash. Boston considered shipping Mo Vaughn to the White Sox but that pay out was too much at the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Thomas_%28AL_baseball_player%29

Had Kenny guaranteed the rest of the contract (removing the diminished skills clause) after Thomas' MVP 2000 season (Giambi cheated) Thomas would have been paid $36 mil in cash & $24 mil deferred. Instead Kenny invoked the DS clause after 2002 & JR re-worked a new contract. The White Sox wound up paying Thomas $34.5 mil + $8 mil deferred from 2001-2005. If we assume Thomas would have played for the White Sox in 2006 for $1 million then the cash is the same & the difference is $16 mil deferred or $1 mil more for each yr of service. I may be wrong but I believe his deferred money is paid out all the way into his 50's. That cuts the value of that money in 1/2. Now what's $500,000/ yr worth in MLB today?

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/4527/career;_ylt=Amoq7h3yiRtCOnSBnZ5K0QWFCLcF
90-92: 990 OPS, 93-97: 1070 OPS, 98-00: 930 OPS - That kind of production is deserving of guaranteeing what was the highest deferred money contract at the time. Griffey Jr would soon eclipse that & nothing like it has been done since.

2. Frank says he would have accepted as little as $1 million to play for the White Sox in 2006.

Frank puts his foot in his mouth a lot but I've never seen it written that he's a liar. I'll take him at his word here.

3. Frank has mantained all along he intended to play until he was 41-42.

I don't think he's being realistic. The players that have been able to play that long weigh far less than Frank. The divorce seems inevitable if he really believes this.

4. Kenny' s v-mail to Frank after the Konerko signing.

Think of the people at your workplace who have worked there for 16 yrs or more. Wouldn't there be a going away party of such a chap? Especially if he possessed the most distinquishable awards for the company in that time?

What is missing in Kenny's v-mail is appreciation & sincerity. At the very least Kenny should have left a long-winded v-mail & video-e-mail for Frank explaining the change of direction & thanking Frank for his loyal years of service. Then invite him to a farewell party that most of the team would attend in Frank's honor. Frank probably would turn it down but Kenny still would have showed the most class in the offer.

I agree it's a business but that doesn't mean it needs to be a cold one.

santo=dorf
02-26-2006, 02:21 PM
You're really going to pick apart everything the best player in our history says?

Does he not have a right to be a little bitter?

If you worked for a company for 16 years that laid you off for a better employee, would you be happy? It may be the right decision, but you still have the right to be a little bitter.

Your Thome/Frank watch is juvenile.
No it isn't. It just another case a Frank opening up his yapper. I used to give him a free pass when he was with the Sox, but this is too much. For a guy who claims he's getting over, he's doing a ton of whining.

If I worked for a company all my life and knew I was close to retirement, and just was not dependable as I originally was, I would not be surprised to see them bring in a younger, more durable replacement. I would probably be a little upset, but I would certain understand the motives. I certainly wouldn't cry to the public saying how I wish I left the company 5 years ago.

He's being a huge hypocrite here. One minute he's talking about Barry Bonds' success in his later years, and later on he's complaining about the juicers in the league. Pick a side Frank.

He says it wasn't about the money, but then he goes back into the past saying he wish he was traded after 2000 because the money in his original contract wasn't guaranteed. Pick a side Frank.

He says he wish he was traded after 2000, but on the World Series DVD he talked about how people always told him he needed to get out of Chicago in order to win a ring, but he knew he would get it with the Sox one day. He claims the day he won the World Series with the sox was the greatest day in his life. Now he's saying he wished he was traded after the 2000 season?!?!?
Pick a side Frank.

fquaye149
02-26-2006, 02:44 PM
When you stop & think of both Magg's & Frank's comments what do they really mean? They both blame the White Sox for a divorce they didn't want. Being angry over it means they really cared about it.


BULL****. Maggs and Frank are completely different. Nowhere in his dealings with the Sox did Maggs ever show he didn't want the divorce. He turned down a huge, overvalued contract, lied about his knee, and then told everyone after not being resigned that he hated Ozzie.

Say what you want about the decision not to resign Frank (I think that inevitably it was the right one) but Frank handled the situation with nothing but loyalty. He would have resigned with us, even after all the bull**** Jerry Manuel pulled on him, after Ozzie's poorly chosen opening remarks as newly designated manager, even after the diminished skill clause. If we had known Frank would be healthy this year, Thome couldn't come close to replacing him. However, we didn't. If Kenny didn't tell him asap that he was looking elsewhere for DH production, that was wrong on his part. It's a business, yes, but part of the business world is loyalty to a man who, without whom, you wouldn't have had a ****ing team for the past 15 years.

Frank deserved better, no matter how mad you all are getting at him because Phil ****ing Rogers wrote an article blowing some bitter, but rational, comments he made after signing with Oakland WAY WAY WAY out of proportion:angry::angry::angry:

Frank Thomas will go to the hall and he will go in as a Sox but it's too bad that fans like you and the media of this stupid, ungrateful city are making it even an issue.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-26-2006, 03:16 PM
No it isn't. It just another case a Frank opening up his yapper. I used to give him a free pass when he was with the Sox, but this is too much. For a guy who claims he's getting over, he's doing a ton of whining.

If I worked for a company all my life and knew I was close to retirement, and just was not dependable as I originally was, I would not be surprised to see them bring in a younger, more durable replacement. I would probably be a little upset, but I would certain understand the motives. I certainly wouldn't cry to the public saying how I wish I left the company 5 years ago.

He's being a huge hypocrite here. One minute he's talking about Barry Bonds' success in his later years, and later on he's complaining about the juicers in the league. Pick a side Frank.

He says it wasn't about the money, but then he goes back into the past saying he wish he was traded after 2000 because the money in his original contract wasn't guaranteed. Pick a side Frank.

He says he wish he was traded after 2000, but on the World Series DVD he talked about how people always told him he needed to get out of Chicago in order to win a ring, but he knew he would get it with the Sox one day. He claims the day he won the World Series with the sox was the greatest day in his life. Now he's saying he wished he was traded after the 2000 season?!?!?
Pick a side Frank.
Thank you. Here ^^^^^^^^ in a nutshell is why Frank Thomas is a fool to ever open his mouth about anything even remotely related to the topics Arvia engaged him in. 16 years and he never learns. "Fans" just like this one cannot relate to millionaires being paid to play a kid's game and thus will rip into these ballplayers for not being just like they are... doctor or ditch digger and every other occupation in between. Meanwhile hacks like Tailgunner Joe are more than willing to serve him up to you "fans" on a silver platter knowing PRECISELY the outcome they'll create.*

* In fairness I believe Arvia is trying extra hard to get Frank to say the right things here, but that's a futile effort given the interviewee and the subject matter.

In complete contrast, Jim Thome would have nothing to say about any of this. Unlike Frank, he manipulates the media instead of it being the other way around. That's why guys like Tailgunner Joe probably will never get anywhere with him. He'll just feed the reporters the usual cliches and nobody will think twice about any of it. The sports journalists will dutifully fill up their notebook with this crap and be thankful for having something to report in tomorrow'se edition... the cliches these sportswriters regurgitate are the only things many of these "fans" will accept.

"Just glad to be here."
"We haven't won anything yet."
"Good Lord willing, everything will work out."
"She told me she was 16."
"Chicago is the greatest city in the world. The fans are the best!"

Keep fooling yourself that they would ever tell you anything different. Only the dumb ones never learn their lesson.

SoLongFrank
02-26-2006, 04:13 PM
BULL****. Maggs and Frank are completely different. Nowhere in his dealings with the Sox did Maggs ever show he didn't want the divorce. He turned down a huge, overvalued contract, lied about his knee, and then told everyone after not being resigned that he hated Ozzie.


You're absolutely right & I'm sorry for not drawing that distinction earlier. When Maggs signed with Detroit his quotes implied he didn't want the divorce. I found that odd at the time because he had just signed what amounted to be the biggest contract in Tigers history & yet here he was lamenting over not being with the White Sox.

I don't know if his words were sincere or not but his actions where such that he never gave the White Sox a penny of concern with respect to loyalty. He never intended to give them a hometown discount or accept any deferred money to help the team remain competitive.

For all Thomas' apparent whining in the media his value to the organization over his 16 yrs has been much greater than what he was paid. The same will never be even considered with Maggs.

mcp5185
02-26-2006, 04:29 PM
Just saw this on espn.com

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2345972

Apparently Kenny is not too happy about Frank talking to the reporters.

RKMeibalane
02-26-2006, 04:30 PM
Williams Lashes Out at Thomas (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2345972)

Hey, guys! I hope everyone's doing well. It looks like KW has finally had enough of Frank.

Hendu
02-26-2006, 04:30 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2345972

This is just getting uglier now with KW firing back at Frank and calling him an 'idiot' among other things. I feel really bad that things had to end like this, and it's time for all parties involved to keep their mouths shut and start looking toward the 2006 season.

Slats
02-26-2006, 04:32 PM
You just knew this was coming sooner or later.

The Dude
02-26-2006, 04:33 PM
Williams Lashes Out at Thomas (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2345972)

Hey, guys! I hope everyone's doing well. It looks like KW has finally had enough of Frank.

Good for kenny! As much respect as I & the huge FOFT on this board have for frank....we have to admit...enough is enough! Frank SHUT THE HELL UP!:cool:

BeviBall!
02-26-2006, 04:35 PM
I don't think anyone expected this reaction from Frank.

Hendu
02-26-2006, 04:37 PM
This is just getting embarassing. Seriously. I love KW, but making comments like this can do nothing but harm, and you expect the GM to be a little more professional and stay above all this stuff.

JohnBasedowYoda
02-26-2006, 04:37 PM
:KW:

"Step-off Frank"

PaleHoseGeorge
02-26-2006, 04:38 PM
Controversy over something Frank Thomas said? Well mark the date: February 26. THE SOX BASEBALL SEASON OFFICIALLY BEGINS!!!

:wink:

Here's the most meaningful quote in the story...

Manager Ozzie Guillen, a former teammate of Thomas', didn't want to get involved.


"I won't put my nose in something above me," Guillen said. "He never mentioned my name and if you don't mention my name, I try to stay away from every part of the conversation."


Anyone who underestimates Ozzie Guillen (and I count myself in that number) does so at their own peril.

mcp5185
02-26-2006, 04:39 PM
I don't think it was necessary to call Thomas an "idiot." However, I agree that maybe Frank should just choose to not answer questions regarding the White Sox, while he is with the A's. Then again, Frank has never been very good at putting his foot in his mouth.

tlebar318
02-26-2006, 04:39 PM
Wow...I will tell you I love Big Frank but Kenny is right. At this point let it go man-I wish Frank the best in Oakland but stop ripping the family you were a part of for 16 years.....

MarySwiss
02-26-2006, 04:40 PM
Without regard to who's right and who's wrong, I am really sorry it had to come down to this. :(:

The Racehorse
02-26-2006, 04:40 PM
Manager Ozzie Guillen, a former teammate of Thomas', didn't want to get involved.

"I won't put my nose in something above me," Guillen said. "He never mentioned my name and if you don't mention my name, I try to stay away from every part of the conversation."


I find the above comment from OG to be the most shocking. :redneck

EDIT: PHG beat me to the punch. :D:

JUribe1989
02-26-2006, 04:45 PM
A little unnecessary to go as far as to call Frank an idiot, but Frank really did need to stop whining. It was really in the Sox best interests to get rid of him. The Sox were great to Frank, and at some point he had to go.

SoLongFrank
02-26-2006, 04:46 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2345972

I'm surprised. Notice Ozzie & Konerko are staying out of it. No one is going to back up Kenny's recent statements. Not even JR. You talk about Ozzie being immature? What about Kenny? What other GM has said such things?

As for Frank, is Beane putting him up to this? He's got Kenny thinking about Frank. That's not going to help the White Sox in 2006. All it will do is make the media pounce on the team if the A's should continue their dominance & Thomas is a part of that.

Kenny should have just said, "Tell Frank that JR, myself, the entire White Sox organization, & all of the fans thank him for all he has done for us over the years but it's time to move on. A new season awaits & we need to focus on becoming champions again."

That's how you use the media. Take the high road & remind the people we are champions.

TornLabrum
02-26-2006, 04:47 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2345972

This is just getting uglier now with KW firing back at Frank and calling him an 'idiot' among other things. I feel really bad that things had to end like this, and it's time for all parties involved to keep their mouths shut and start looking toward the 2006 season.

I have to agree with Kenny Williams. Frank is an idiot for sitting down and talking to any reporter. I over heard a teacher I know (a big Sox fan) tell a student the other day something many of us know: "The definition of insanity is doing something over and over again even though it doesn't work." It's obvious Frank hasn't learned that lesson.

I remember Aparicio cursing the Sox for "another forty years." I remember the hard feelings with Fisk, and McDowell, and Guillen. But they had enough sense to shut up when they started with their new teams (or in Fisk's case retirement). There were hard feelings for a time, but those mellowed.

Even though the column I wrote that will be going up soon was written before round two of this mess, I still know that Frank will eventually come around and the sting will disappear. It would certainly be nice if a) he now keeps his mouth shut instead of escalating things further, b) reporters drop the subject (but they won't because they know it's an automatic story), and c) Kenny Williams also keep quiet now that he's blown off his steam.

Unfotunately they all should have taken this advice before the Arvia interview.

ewokpelts
02-26-2006, 04:48 PM
:KW
IF it were up to me, Frank would have been gone in 2001.

TornLabrum
02-26-2006, 04:51 PM
I don't think it was necessary to call Thomas an "idiot." However, I agree that maybe Frank should just choose to not answer questions regarding the White Sox, while he is with the A's. Then again, Frank has never been very good at putting his foot in his mouth.

Actually he's been excellent at putting his foot in his mouth. His problem is keeping it out.

UofCSoxFan
02-26-2006, 04:53 PM
I find the above comment from OG to be the most shocking. :redneck

EDIT: PHG beat me to the punch. :D:

Yeah...I mean it is a stark contrast to how Ozzie reacted to Mags' comments before last season...but like Ozzies says, Mags called him out there.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-26-2006, 04:55 PM
:KW
IF it were up to me, Frank would have been gone in 2001.
Three comments about this.

1.) Williams is right, Frank is an idiot. As I've pointed out (and several others at WSI, too), Frank never learns his lesson about keeping his mouth shut. He routinely sticks his foot in his mouth and never emerges any wiser for the experience.

2.) I never believed KW would be so short-sighted as to actively seek ways to get Frank Thomas off his team. KW's newest temper tantrum has me rethinking my position about this.

3.) You may be right, left to his own devices KW may have gotten rid of Frank five years ago.

SoLongFrank
02-26-2006, 05:00 PM
I'm sorry but I don't see it that way. I thought the Arvia interview actually helped the situation because Frank once again put the focus on when Kenny took over rather than his release in 2005. If Kenny would have just taken the high road then any one reading this would have come away thinking he still is angry at Kenny for something that happened 5 yrs ago. That reduces sympathy fans & the media are feeling for Thomas.

But now Kenny's made it personal & current. That's only going to increase the sympathy for Thomas & make Kenny look more like the bad guy. Now the cub-loving Chicago media is going to pounce on Kenny's comments. He lectures Ozzie but he can't control himself.

Now I don't think Beane could have predicted Kenny's reaction but you can definitely see an upside for the A's when a championship GM is attacking the former face of that franchise.

MarySwiss
02-26-2006, 05:07 PM
I am no expert re the CBA, but weren't the Sox limited in their choices? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they had to either pick up his option, offer him arbitration (and who knows what would have happened there?), or just buy him out. And having once bought him out, weren't they constrained from negotiating with him until after the regular season had begun?

If so, then the Sox did the only thing they reasonably could have done.

nasox
02-26-2006, 05:07 PM
I don't know what to say, but I hope this dies down. The last thing we need is for mud to be slung back and forth.

Gives another reason for the media to hate on Frank. :(:

At least Ozzie stayed out of it.

Chisox003
02-26-2006, 05:08 PM
Beat me to it

Here's the exact quote: "He's an idiot. He's selfish. That's why we don't miss him," Williams said
:o:

Linky (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-whitesox-williams&prov=ap&type=lgns) .... It gets worse

gobears1987
02-26-2006, 05:11 PM
Be careful, Kenny. I'm going to side with Frank. He is the reason I became a Sox fan back when I was 5 years old. You are losing some respect I held for you KW.

StockdaleForVeep
02-26-2006, 05:16 PM
Heh, mods better merge 3 threads to one now since i see that many sep threads on the forum already

KW is an idiot, if he had problems with frank all this time he woulda fired off a trade when Thomas had trade value and wasnt a injury risk. He's tryin to show he has the biggest **** and be a hardass when he's lookin like a windbag fool. All this will do is fire up frank and Kenny, when u hear the cheers for frank when frank comes back to play at comisky, u will see the people who miss him

NoNeckEra
02-26-2006, 05:16 PM
Gives another reason for the media to hate on Frank.
Again with the media. Frank made this bed(he short-sheeted it), and he's going to have to sleep in it.

SouthSide_HitMen
02-26-2006, 05:18 PM
It looks like Ozzie will need to call Kenny into his office to have a little talk about how to compose yourself in front of the media and say "no comment" when needed. :D:

munchman33
02-26-2006, 05:22 PM
Frank has every right to say what he wants. He was cast off without a contract offer. He should be angry. And he should be expected to mouth off a little.

Kenny is wrong in this. Seriously wrong. And he needs to apologize before this gets worse.

NoNeckEra
02-26-2006, 05:23 PM
Be careful, Kenny. I'm going to side with Frank. He is the reason I became a Sox fan back when I was 5 years old. You are losing some respect I held for you KW.
From KW's perspective, he's going to pay Frank $3.5mil for not playing, which is way more than double of anything the A's will pay him. And on top of it, Frank's dissing KW's boss, who's been more than generous throughout his entire career. As KW said, "Enough is enough".
He may be the reason you became a Sox fan, but I for one(with a little longer perspective) won't be "honoring" him upon his return.

rdivaldi
02-26-2006, 05:23 PM
I agree with KW. BUT, that's something you don't say in the media. "No comment" would have been a much better choice.

kingpin_rcs
02-26-2006, 05:29 PM
This keeps getting better and better. First it's Ozzie and the A-Rod thing, now this. It's Feb 26th. 10 freaking days into spring training and the three ring circus is in full force. This is really unfortunate. I hope that they get it into their heads soon that the White Sox organization and especially those two (Oz and KW) are no longer under the radar - they are under the microscope!

WhiteSoxFan84
02-26-2006, 05:30 PM
According to ESPN radio, in an interview today, Kenny Williams called Frank Thomas an "idiot" and said "he's a selfish player and that's why we don't miss him".


EDIT: Didn't know this was being reported under the "Big Doubts..." thread. Mods, combine or delete, do as you wish.

Patrick134
02-26-2006, 05:32 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AoQUWDEK4TGqGcU2WB_DxwwRvLYF?slug=ap-whitesox-williams&prov=ap&type=lgns

Hendu
02-26-2006, 05:41 PM
Frank has every right to say what he wants. He was cast off without a contract offer. He should be angry. And he should be expected to mouth off a little.

Kenny is wrong in this. Seriously wrong. And he needs to apologize before this gets worse.

Regardless of who's right or wrong with respect to the substance of the argument, Kenny is the GM and is supposed to be the guy who represents the organization. He's also supposed to be the professional, media savvy negotiator who always holds his cards close to the vest. GMs are not supposed to exacerbate a situation that is becoming a public embarrassment for the organization.

I know that Frank has been acting like a big baby, but it should have been left at that: Frank Thomas whining again, while all we care about is repeating. Now KW, however, has turned it into a soap opera.

Hitmen77
02-26-2006, 05:41 PM
In complete contrast, Jim Thome would have nothing to say about any of this. Unlike Frank, he manipulates the media instead of it being the other way around. ...

I hope you mean that about Thome in a positive way. I've only heard good things about him and he sounds like he's pretty sincere. When I think of manipulating the media, I think of Shammy Sosa at the height of his House of Cards.

caulfield12
02-26-2006, 05:42 PM
see story at chicagosports.com

Is Cowley the one that started all this?

It will be interesting to see how all this plays out, especially if Thomas actually shows up for our ST game with the As or is healthy enough to play in the May 22nd game.

I was seriously thinking all of this Thomas - organizational animosity would blow over, and now it has blown up, with KW sounding much like Ozzie Guillen. Maybe theyre rubbing off on each other...or maybe they both have the confidence to say what they want now that theyve won a championship.

There is certainly a hard-core group (30-40%) of Frank apologizers, I remember fighting everyday with a notorious one at chisox.com.

I wonder if things will shift and more people will start to turn on Frank, or if theyll be even more loyal to their favorite Sox player of a generation.

Its not going to help Frank if OG and KW are around when the Hall of Fame vote comes up, although OG usually is complimentary, you can read between the lines what he actually thinks. We might have another Fisk disaster with Big Frank...I couldn't see him going into the Hall wearing a Sox jersey (the As?) the way things are going right now. JR or someone is going to have to step in and cool this whole situation down with a magnanimous statement, as its not very often you see GMs threatening to physically meet up with someone and have it out. In fact, I cant think of a similar situation with a GM and player in recent memory, can you guys?

SouthSide_HitMen
02-26-2006, 05:43 PM
It looks like Ozzie will need to call Kenny into his office to have a little talk about how to compose yourself in front of the media and say "no comment" when needed. :D:

Here are both articles - The one detailing Kenny's comments about the Southtown interview with Thomas.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-whitesox-williams&prov=ap&type=lgns (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-whitesox-williams&prov=ap&type=lgns)

He's an idiot. He's selfish. That's why we don't miss him," Williams said, responding to a Thomas interview that appeared in The Daily Southtown, a newspaper in the Chicago suburb of Tinley Park, Ill.

"If he was any kind of a man, he would quit talking about things in the paper and return a phone call or come knock on someone's door. If I had the kind of problems evidently he had with me, I would go knock on his door," he said.

"We don't miss him, by the way," Williams said. "If you go out there and ask any one of my players or staff members, we don't miss him.

"We don't miss his attitude. We don't miss the whining. We don't miss it. Good riddance. See you later," he said.

Williams said he planned to express his feelings in person to Thomas when the opportunity presented itself, perhaps this spring.

Here is the Southtown Article he was responding to:

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/261sd1.htm (http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/261sd1.htm)

Thomas: Kenny left me one message in all this, and that's the day he signed Paul Konerko. He left it on the voice mail, said, "I know you've seen we signed Konerko, and I can help you try to get signed somewhere else." Those were the words that came to me over my cell phone. You think I'm going to call back on some (stuff) like that?

I'm not begging to play nowhere else. I know what I can do. I'm not an average player, and I've never been. That's the way I was handled, and that was wrong.

The Chicago White Sox host Oakland March 7 in Tuscon.

I like Frank Thomas and Kenny Williams and will not take sides. I think the White Sox could have handled this better. I think both Thomas and Kenny should have bit their tongue. Kenny Williams is management and should take the higher road. If Kenny Williams left the voice mail meassage Thomas said he left "I can try to help you to get signed somewhere" I would take it as an insult as well.

If you checked your voicemail this weekend and your boss left you a message saying - "You have been replaced. It was nice knowing you. Call if you want help looking for another job." especially after 16 years of being an excellent worker you wouldn't take it well either.

Kenny was doing his job (Konerko / Thome) and maybe the message wasn't as Thomas said it was - that is the way he interpreted it.

Reinsdorf should have called just before the released to the media (after the signing) the news of Konerko's extension if they knew Thomas would be replaced (or before the Thome trade was announced but after it was completed). I am sure Frank would be upset but he wouldn't have any legitimate complaints at that point.

I hope this ends on March 7 after Williams and Thomas "discuss" the matter.

I still plan on going to Core of the Core and giving Thomas a huge standing ovation.

I will give Kenny a standing ovation on April 2. I hope nobody boos Thomas.

RKMeibalane
02-26-2006, 05:47 PM
Williams said he planned to express his feelings in person to Thomas when the opportunity presented itself, perhaps this spring.

Given that the two of them almost got into a fist-fight two seasons ago, I don't think a face-to-face meeting would end well. I'm really sorry that it's come down to this.

chaotic8512
02-26-2006, 05:55 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060226/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bba_white_sox_williams

I'm shocked (and sad) he went that far. It wasn't the happiest exit, but you have to maintain your professionalism.

RKMeibalane
02-26-2006, 05:55 PM
Looking at this problem from different angle, I wonder if anyone's going to call out Joe Cowley for continuing to stir up ****. He has been trying to play Williams and Thomas against each other for years. Remember the infamous "decoy" fiasco? That was entirely Cowley's creation, and so is this disaster. I'm waiting for someone to after this moron, because he's clearly trying his best to cause trouble wherever he goes.

Then again, what the hell do I know? :redneck

Epark84
02-26-2006, 05:59 PM
Thomas should get cheered by every sox fan for his service. KW made a business decision. KW brought the south side a world series title. Frank thomas never did. He was not a part of last years team, not an integral part. It sucks it had to end this way, but KW has made the white sox a winner. He can say whatever the hell he wants to say

Frankly Missing
02-26-2006, 05:59 PM
Given that the two of them almost got into a fist-fight two seasons ago, I don't think a face-to-face meeting would end well. I'm really sorry that it's come down to this.

KW finally got his wish to get rid of Frank.

Did he really expect Frank to go quietly?

Does being GM mean you think everything is done your way?

Frank might be expressing hurt and disappointment, but KW sounds hateful.

I love the fact KW thinks he can speak for the entire team and staff.

He sure doesn't speak for this fan.

OG4LIFE
02-26-2006, 05:59 PM
WOW....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060226/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bba_white_sox_williams

I think its funny that its KW spouting off and Ozzie taking the high road!

SouthSide_HitMen
02-26-2006, 06:01 PM
Given that the two of them almost got into a fist-fight two seasons ago, I don't think a face-to-face meeting would end well. I'm really sorry that it's come down to this.

Well hopefully it will cool down over the next week or so and they can put it behind them after a face to face discussion. If it is a 30 second swearing match:

KW **** you Frank
FT Kiss my ass Kenny
KW **** you and your fat ass Frank
FT You couldn't hold my jock Kenny on or off the field you ****.
KW You may be right but I could cut your fat ass
FT **** you Kenny boy. You want to go a few I'll whup your skinny ass.

then this will fester for years. If they both can man up and put this aside it will be best for both men, the Chicago White Sox and fans of MLB. Hopefully they will choose the second option.

Nice to see you back RKMeibalane!

mrs. hendu
02-26-2006, 06:02 PM
I don't approve of calling each othe names in the media. All I want from the Sox is to defend their title and I don't want to read stuff like this ever again. :angry:

Frankly Missing
02-26-2006, 06:04 PM
Looking at this problem from different angle, I wonder if anyone's going to call out Joe Cowley for continuing to stir up ****. He has been trying to play Williams and Thomas against each other for years. Remember the infamous "decoy" fiasco? That was entirely Cowley's creation, and so is this disaster. I'm waiting for someone to after this moron, because he's clearly trying his best to cause trouble wherever he goes.

Then again, what the hell do I know? :redneck

You are 100% right about Cowley. That's the thing about Frank, he doesn't learn who his enemies are. Frank can be very naive.

NoNeckEra
02-26-2006, 06:08 PM
I hope nobody boos Thomas.
It's a two way street. If Frank comes into the Cell and handles himself with class, I'll stand for him. But if he's non-appreciative of the fans(I feel dissed by him saying he would not have attended the ceremonies had he know he wouldn't be back) then anything goes, including, if he asks for it, booing.

Red Barchetta
02-26-2006, 06:11 PM
You are 100% right about Cowley. That's the thing about Frank, he doesn't learn who his enemies are. Frank can be very naive.

It's too bad that two of my all-time favorite SOX players; Fisk and Thomas both ended their southside careers on such negative terms.

dickallen15
02-26-2006, 06:14 PM
Looking at this problem from different angle, I wonder if anyone's going to call out Joe Cowley for continuing to stir up ****. He has been trying to play Williams and Thomas against each other for years. Remember the infamous "decoy" fiasco? That was entirely Cowley's creation, and so is this disaster. I'm waiting for someone to after this moron, because he's clearly trying his best to cause trouble wherever he goes.

Then again, what the hell do I know? :redneck
Cowley is an idiot, but what does he have to do with this? Frank's interview was with Phil Arvia. Did Cowley take it to KW?

ChiSoxIn06
02-26-2006, 06:16 PM
read this over at espn.com...sorry if its a repost

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2345972

i hate to say this but i agree with Kenny, Frank's act has turned from a small distraction to just flat out child-like whining...Talent and numbers aside, my respect for Big Frank is at an all time low.

RKMeibalane
02-26-2006, 06:20 PM
Cowley is an idiot, but what does he have to do with this? Frank's interview was with Phil Arvia. Did Cowley take it to KW?

It's possible that he did. The ESPN article says that Williams was responding directly to Frank's earlier interview with the Southtown. That suggests KW had been talking with Cowley. We'll find out tomorrow when the Southtown publishes their own article. It wouldn't surprise me if he were behind it, seeing as how he always manages to find his way to the center of controveries involving the White Sox.

RKMeibalane
02-26-2006, 06:21 PM
It's a two way street. If Frank comes into the Cell and handles himself with class, I'll stand for him. But if he's non-appreciative of the fans(I feel dissed by him saying he would not have attended the ceremonies had he know he wouldn't be back) then anything goes, including, if he asks for it, booing.

I think Frank's comments were directed more at the organization than the fans. He has always handled himself well when meeting fans in public, taking time to sign autographs, pose for pictures, etc. I've never met Frank, but everyone I know of who has came away with nice things to say about him.

Rudy Law
02-26-2006, 06:22 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2345972


Good stuff.....Frank Thomas is just a big bitchin' baby.....Get over it Frank!!

Hendu
02-26-2006, 06:27 PM
It sucks it had to end this way, but KW has made the white sox a winner. He can say whatever the hell he wants to say
See, I don't agree with that sentiment at all. KW is not a player or even a manager, but he is an executive and should act like one. Up until now, most people understood the Frank thing as a business decision and Frank was bitter over it. But divorces even under the best of circumstances are messy, so no big deal. Then KW goes off, and it becomes personal and a big national media story.

What happens if some future draft pick decides not to sign with the Sox because of this. Or if an agent starts steering his clients away from the Sox. Or what if this affects negotiations with our own free agents down the road. It's not a good thing when a GM has a reputation for getting into public pissing matches.

Also, what if Ozzie or one of the players says something crazy during the season? How is KW going to call them into the office and tell them to shut up without looking like a hypocrite?

oeo
02-26-2006, 06:27 PM
Be careful, Kenny. I'm going to side with Frank. He is the reason I became a Sox fan back when I was 5 years old. You are losing some respect I held for you KW.

And Frank isn't losing any respect? To me, the more he whines, the more respect he loses. I'm sorry, but if you have something to say about Jerry Reinsdorf, say it to Jerry Reinsdorf, don't whine to the media about it. I can't stand when guys do this, this crap is pulled way too often.

They both need to just keep their mouths shut, I don't care what the Sox didn't do for Frank. It's a business, it is not their obligation to tell you they're moving on Frank.

TornLabrum
02-26-2006, 06:27 PM
Heh, mods better merge 3 threads to one now since i see that many sep threads on the forum already

KW is an idiot, if he had problems with frank all this time he woulda fired off a trade when Thomas had trade value and wasnt a injury risk. He's tryin to show he has the biggest **** and be a hardass when he's lookin like a windbag fool. All this will do is fire up frank and Kenny, when u hear the cheers for frank when frank comes back to play at comisky, u will see the people who miss him

Mod note: You should know better than to try to circumvent the language filters. If you don't want the word to appear, type it. If you don't like it if it shows up, than don't give us the first letter. Now it's going to cost you a week.

Jjav829
02-26-2006, 06:33 PM
I fully agree with Kenny. However, Kenny needs to take the advice he gave to Ozzie a week ago and use the phrase "no comment." The bottom line is that while Kenny is probably right in this matter, and Frank does need to shut the **** up already, nothing good comes from this outburst by Kenny.

I understand that it is hard to just let these things go, especially for someone as emotional as Kenny Williams. But he is the GM of the defending World Champions. He should be concentrating on his championship team as they prepare to start playing ST games, not lashing out at Frank because Frank can't stop whining (even though he's clearly over it as he says - *cough* hypocrite *cough*).

It's tough because while I feel for Frank in some of what he says, he's coming off as a complete crybaby here. Just the same, while I understand that Kenny is tired of listening to all this ****, and I probably would react the same way he did, he needs to hold himself to a higher standard.

The first spring training game is Wednesday. Let's hope by then we can stop talking about our manager and GM running their mouths.

SoLongFrank
02-26-2006, 06:35 PM
Let's just assume for a minute that Beane while maybe not orchestrating this has certainly allowed it to happen. He could have spoken to Frank the first time & maybe did but it obviously didn't stop Frank from being interviewed by Chicago reporters.

I imagine Beane will talk to Frank & remind him to say how much he loves Chicago & loves the White Sox fans whenever he speaks about Chicago.

One thing is for certain: Oakland rarely gets national press. With Frank they'll get more than they ever could have imagined.

TornLabrum
02-26-2006, 06:35 PM
Looking at this problem from different angle, I wonder if anyone's going to call out Joe Cowley for continuing to stir up ****. He has been trying to play Williams and Thomas against each other for years. Remember the infamous "decoy" fiasco? That was entirely Cowley's creation, and so is this disaster. I'm waiting for someone to after this moron, because he's clearly trying his best to cause trouble wherever he goes.

Then again, what the hell do I know? :redneck

AFAIK Cowley had little or nothing to do with this. The first hint of anything to come was from an AP story. Then came Phil Arvia's interview. The Williams quote is also AP.

Lip Man 1
02-26-2006, 06:37 PM
Comcast Sports is just reporting direct quotes from Kenny about Frank Thomas.

Williams calls Thomas 'an idiot.' That the Sox 'don't miss his whining and selfishness' and that 'he better keep his nose out of White Sox business.'

Williams was apparently incensed over the story in the Southtown and Frank's comments about Reinsdorf.

Lip

TornLabrum
02-26-2006, 06:37 PM
It's possible that he did. The ESPN article says that Williams was responding directly to Frank's earlier interview with the Southtown. That suggests KW had been talking with Cowley. We'll find out tomorrow when the Southtown publishes their own article. It wouldn't surprise me if he were behind it, seeing as how he always manages to find his way to the center of controveries involving the White Sox.

Except for one thing. Cowley is now with the Sun-Times.

HomeFish
02-26-2006, 06:40 PM
Anyone remember Frank's 2003 "I'm just going to try to hit home runs from here on" comment? I personally called him an idiot at that point, and I won't attack KW for doing something that I've done before.

Frank Thomas was the single most talented individual to ever play for the Sox. He was an incredible baseball player the likes of which we aren't going to see on this team for a long, long time. His name, number, and likeness will soon be on the left field wall. That doesn't mean he wasn't selfish, or that he isn't whining.

CPditka
02-26-2006, 06:41 PM
Wow I was shocked to hear this on Sportscenter and then read it here. I kind of wanted to see a little more class from a classy guy (refering to KW).

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2345972

"He's an idiot. He's selfish. That's why we don't miss him," Williams said, responding to a Thomas interview that appeared in The Daily Southtown, a newspaper in the Chicago suburb of Tinley Park, Ill.

"We don't miss him, by the way," Williams said. "If you go out there and ask any one of my players or staff members, we don't miss him.

"We don't miss his attitude. We don't miss the whining. We don't miss it. Good riddance. See you later," he said.

"I'm a general manager and I'm supposed to be above these things. But again, when is enough enough?" he said. "He brought us to this point. So, OK, you want to play this game? You've got it. You got it. He's the Oakland A's problem right now. ... He better stay out of our business. He better stay out of White Sox's business."

chaotic8512
02-26-2006, 06:45 PM
I know it's splitting hairs, but figured I would say it anyway... I posted the link I found on Yahoo! concerning the KW/Thomas comments, not thinking for a second that it would instead be in the Talking Baseball section as opposed to the Clubhouse... yeah, he's on to the A's, but he'll always be a White Sox in my mind. I guess it's a "moving on" thing, which I can understand, as it is important not to dwell on someone who isn't part of the team.

Alas, I apologize for not checking if there was a thread already... :redface:

russ99
02-26-2006, 06:46 PM
Comcast Sports is just reporting direct quotes from Kenny about Frank Thomas.

Williams calls Thomas 'an idiot.' That the Sox 'don't miss his whining and selfishness' and that 'he better keep his nose out of White Sox business.'

Williams was apparently incensed over the story in the Southtown and Frank's comments about Reinsdorf.

Lip

Frank needs to just shut his mouth and play. Which of course, even Oakland's doctors are in doubt as to if that will happen. I found it most ironic that the beginning of the ESPN story involved his ongoing ankle problems, and yet Frank just had to continue his tirade against the Sox.

Kenny's comments obviously went a bit too far, but after some of Hurt's comments, I'd be upset too.

TornLabrum
02-26-2006, 06:47 PM
I know it's splitting hairs, but figured I would say it anyway... I posted the link I found on Yahoo! concerning the KW/Thomas comments, not thinking for a second that it would instead be in the Talking Baseball section as opposed to the Clubhouse... yeah, he's on to the A's, but he'll always be a White Sox in my mind. I guess it's a "moving on" thing, which I can understand, as it is important not to dwell on someone who isn't part of the team.

Alas, I apologize for not checking if there was a thread already... :redface:

The search feature is your friend. :D:

RKMeibalane
02-26-2006, 06:47 PM
Except for one thing. Cowley is now with the Sun-Times.

Thanks. That's what I meant.

Daver
02-26-2006, 06:48 PM
I know it's splitting hairs, but figured I would say it anyway... I posted the link I found on Yahoo! concerning the KW/Thomas comments, not thinking for a second that it would instead be in the Talking Baseball section as opposed to the Clubhouse... yeah, he's on to the A's, but he'll always be a White Sox in my mind. I guess it's a "moving on" thing, which I can understand, as it is important not to dwell on someone who isn't part of the team.

Alas, I apologize for not checking if there was a thread already... :redface:

15 other people did the same damn thing so far, no apology needed.

oeo
02-26-2006, 06:50 PM
15 other people did the same damn thing so far, no apology needed.

Don't get mad at me for asking, but why is this hidden in this thread? I don't think there would be 15 other threads (maybe 10, though) if it had its own thread. Isn't this a totally different story than the one this thread started out as?

RKMeibalane
02-26-2006, 06:50 PM
I fully agree with Kenny. However, Kenny needs to take the advice he gave to Ozzie a week ago and use the phrase "no comment." The bottom line is that while Kenny is probably right in this matter, and Frank does need to shut the **** up already, nothing good comes from this outburst by Kenny.

I understand that it is hard to just let these things go, especially for someone as emotional as Kenny Williams. But he is the GM of the defending World Champions. He should be concentrating on his championship team as they prepare to start playing ST games, not lashing out at Frank because Frank can't stop whining (even though he's clearly over it as he says - *cough* hypocrite *cough*).

It's tough because while I feel for Frank in some of what he says, he's coming off as a complete crybaby here. Just the same, while I understand that Kenny is tired of listening to all this ****, and I probably would react the same way he did, he needs to hold himself to a higher standard.

The first spring training game is Wednesday. Let's hope by then we can stop talking about our manager and GM running their mouths.

Well said. I'm just hoping that this entire mess will be forgotten about, but there isn't much chance of that happening. I feel badly for Frank, but I also agree with what Williams said. The fact is, Thomas' health was and is too much of a question mark for the Sox to bring him back. Frank is only kidding himself if he thinks that he "doesn't have an injury history," as he said the other day.

The exhibition games can't start soon enough.

Daver
02-26-2006, 06:51 PM
Don't get mad at me for asking, but why is this hidden in this thread? I don't think there would be 15 other threads (maybe 10, though) if it had its own thread. Isn't this a totally different story than the one this thread started out as?

The link to the article was posted in this thread first.

TornLabrum
02-26-2006, 06:51 PM
Don't get mad at me for asking, but why is this hidden in this thread? I don't think there would be 15 other threads (maybe 10, though) if it had its own thread. Isn't this a totally different story than the one this thread started out as?

It's a continuation of the Frank Thomas-Kenny Williams soap opera that started with that AP story last week. Why would we need 37 separate threads on it?

SoLongFrank
02-26-2006, 06:54 PM
What I strongly disagree with Frank on:
1) Not showing up at the White House
2) Stating he wouldn't have participated in the post season ceremonies & celebrations
3) Suggesting he should have been traded after 2000

I realize he thinks he's talking directly to Kenny with these comments but for White Sox fans that have cheered him through all that those comments sting.

What I agree with Frank on:
Kenny should have removed the DS clause from the contract after 2000. It wasn't needed & served as a major insult to Frank. Think about it. They could have purchased insurance after 2000 on the remainder of the contract to protect against injury. Thomas was a low risk at the time. Thomas was one of a handfull of players in the league that had deferred money in their contracts & no one had as much as 40% like Thomas. In relation to other big money contracts Thomas has proven to be anything but selfish.

Try to remember the other signings at that time & how they compared to Thomas' contract. If your employer is paying you far below what the market is currently paying you're going to be upset. You're going to ask for a raise or a bonus or you'll seek a new job. Next remember 2002. Thomas could have chosen to be an Oriole for more money. But he took less to remain with the White Sox. That's why I get upset when any one refers to him as being selfish. Yes he has a big mouth & doesn't know when it's best to shut it. But that's just BS. That's just talk. When it comes time to act & sign he's always put loyalty ahead of greed.

As for being selfish on the field that's even more ridiculous. Thomas has always looked for the best pitch to hit & has always swung his best to hit it. He has never been shy at taking walks & has always showed extreme discipline at the plate. Compare his doubles to other sluggers & it's clear Thomas swings to get a hit more than he swings to hit a HR.

chaotic8512
02-26-2006, 06:55 PM
15 other people did the same damn thing so far, no apology needed.

Yeah, but I know the exhaustion of being a mod, being one myself on another MLB board, so I'm all too familiar with the annoyance of 15 different threads being posted on one topic.

Impressed with the lightning quick merging action, too. :cool:

oeo
02-26-2006, 06:55 PM
It's a continuation of the Frank Thomas-Kenny Williams soap opera that started with that AP story last week. Why would we need 37 separate threads on it?

Alright, I wasn't implying there be more than even 2 threads. The majority of the article was about Thomas' doubts of being able to play, that is the only reason I said anything. Sorry.

Jjav829
02-26-2006, 06:55 PM
Don't get mad at me for asking, but why is this hidden in this thread? I don't think there would be 15 other threads (maybe 10, though) if it had its own thread. Isn't this a totally different story than the one this thread started out as?

Agreed. I came to WSI, went through everything new and completely missed this story because I didn't care to read about the doubts of Frank Thomas. I didn't see KW's comments until I went to Yahoo and saw the story there. Hell, I didn't even see the Frank interview until after I read KW's comments because, once again, I didn't feel the need to open the thread about Frank Thomas doubts. Hopefully the title change helps.

RKMeibalane
02-26-2006, 07:03 PM
What I strongly disagree with Frank on:
1) Not showing up at the White House
2) Stating he wouldn't have participated in the post season ceremonies & celebrations
3) Suggesting he should have been traded after 2000

I realize he thinks he's talking directly to Kenny with this comments but for White Sox fans that have cheered him through all that those comments sting.

What I agree with Frank on:
Kenny should have removed the DS clause from the contract after 2000. It wasn't needed & served as a major insult to Frank. Think about. They could have purchased insurance after 2000 & the remainder of the contract to protect against injury. Thomas was a low risk at the time. Thomas was one of a handfull of players in the league that had deferred money in their contracts & no one had as much as 40% like Thomas. In relation to other
big money contracts Thomas has proven to be anything but selfish.

Try to remember the other signings at that time & how they compared to Thomas' contract. If your employer is paying you far below what the market is currently paying you're going to be upset. You're going to ask for a raise or a bonus or you'll seek a new job. Next remember 2002. Thomas could have chosen to be an Oriole for more money. But he took less to remain with the White Sox. That's why I get upset when any one refers to him as being selfish. Yes he has a big mouth & doesn't know when it's best to shut it. But that's just BS. That's just talk. When it comes time to act & sign he's always put loyalty ahead of greed.
Well put.

I'd like to add the following:

--Frank is fortunate to have a job right now, given his recent injury history: he needs to stop whining and just focus on getting ready for Opening Day

--the Sox may be World Champions, but that doesn't give Williams the right to say whatever he wants: the media is willing to tolerate him because the Sox won last season, but that could change quickly if things don't go well to start this season

--the Sox organization, as whole, needs to stop airing its dirty laundry in front of the media: the media trolls like Cowley, Windsock, etc. are just looking to cause trouble: nothing good can come of talking with them

Lip Man 1
02-26-2006, 07:05 PM
Gang:

I apologize for starting a thread on this. I didn't see it anywhere else in the Sox clubhouse section and didn't want to take a chance since it was Sunday.

By the way, Mark Gonzales' story about this is now on the Tribune web site:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-060226soxthomas,1,7075944.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Lip

oeo
02-26-2006, 07:08 PM
--the Sox may be World Champions, but that doesn't give Williams the right to say whatever he wants: the media is willing to tolerate him because the Sox won last season, but that could change quickly if things don't go well to start this season

:?:

The media is going to "tolerate" it either way. They love this stuff...as a matter of fact they're the one's that started it and are usually the one's that will always start it. This makes news.

NSSoxFan
02-26-2006, 07:12 PM
I really don't know how to respond to all this. I'm very sad that my favorite baseball player ever is continuing to put his foot directly into his mouth. KW should have kept it to a 'no comment' but I really can't blame him for what he saying. Geez, I know Frank will come around eventually, but this is too much.

SoLongFrank
02-26-2006, 07:18 PM
Kw's comments are now everywhere! MSNBC.com, CNNSI.com, cbssportsline.com, ESPN.com, Yahoo.com, Chicagosports.com, & yes even the Sun-Times has updated their sight to headline it.

It's sure to be a front page story in the sports section. Uggh. Kenny!

RKMeibalane
02-26-2006, 07:19 PM
I really don't know how to respond to all this. I'm very sad that my favorite baseball player ever is continuing to put his foot directly into his mouth. KW should have kept it to a 'no comment' but I really can't blame him for what he saying. Geez, I know Frank will come around eventually, but this is too much.

I feel your pain. I just want everyone to focus on actually playing baseball. The games can't start soon enough.

MarySwiss
02-26-2006, 07:21 PM
Yesterday in Tucson, I overheard a Chicago-based, self-proclaimed diehard fan talk about how fan-friendly and accommodating Frank has always been. (Of course, you overhear a lot at ST--for example, I also heard someone tell his kid that Chris Widger took 2004 off to care for a sick family member, which is something I never heard or read anywhere.) But I'm willing to give Frank the benefit of the doubt. I also don't think we can fault Kenny for his loyalty to his boss and his team.

In any event, I think most Sox fans will agree that this whole thing sucks. Especially since it could so easily have been avoided had both sides just refrained from comment. But there is an irony here. Anytime a player refuses to talk to the media, he gets bashed for it, but with this kind of ****, who could blame a player for clamming up? Or a GM? Both Frank and Kenny expressed their opinions, although there can be no doubt they could have been more diplomatic. But is it any wonder--given all the hoo-ha--that sports figures often consider many of the members of the sports media to be their enemies?

WhiteSoxFan84
02-26-2006, 07:21 PM
http://theelichronicles.mlblogs.com/the_eli_chronicles/images/ozzie_guillen.jpg VS. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/BostonFaninMichigan/52447344.jpg



OR


http://www.blackathlete.net/Images/blackbox/kwilliams1.jpg VS. http://msn.foxsports.com/id/5044778_36_1.jpg


LIVE AT WRESTLEMANIA 22! A SURREAL DOUBLE MAIN EVENT!

IN THE FIRST MATCH-UP, FOR THE VENEZUELAN WORLD TITLE, WHITE SOX MANAGER OZZIE "THE TRUTH" GUILLEN DEFENDS HIS SPANISH HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP AGAINST FELLOW COUNTRYMEN MAGGLIO "VENEZUELAN *****" ORDONEZ! OZZIE SAYS HE KNOWS THINGS ABOUT MAGGLIO THAT NOBODY ELSE KNOWS! MAGGLIO SAYS A LOT BUT NO ONE REALLY UNDERSTANDS HIM! THE ONE THING WE ALL KNOW IS HOW MUCH THESE TWO HATE EACH OTHER! THIS WILL TRULY BE A "VENEZUELAN CIVIL WAR MATCH"!

IN THE SECOND MAIN EVENT, TWO GIANTS COLLIDE AS WHITE SOX GENERAL MANAGER KENNY "THE GREAT" WILLIAMS GOES ONE-ON-ONE WITH "THE BIG HURT" FRANK THOMAS IN A "HELL AT THE CELL MATCH"! NO TITLE NEEDS TO BE ON THE LINE FOR THIS ONE TO GET YOUR ATTENTION! THOMAS FEELS DISRESPECTED! WILLIAMS FEELS NOTHING BECAUSE HE IS A MACHINE! ONLY ONE OF THESE MEN CAN COME OUT OF THE CELL ALIVE!

WORDS HAVE WENT BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN ALL FOUR OF THESE MEN! NOW IT'S TIME FOR THE TALKING TO END, AND THE ASS-KICKING TO BEGIN! BE THERE, LIVE, SUNDAY APRIL 2ND AT THE ALL-STATE ARENA IN ROSEMONT, IL!




EDIT: Mods, why doesn't the language filter pick up the word *****, 5-letter word also used for a female dog? I thought it would and didn't mark it out myself. Hope I didn't get in trouble because of it...

PaleHoseGeorge
02-26-2006, 07:25 PM
I hope you mean that about Thome in a positive way. I've only heard good things about him and he sounds like he's pretty sincere. When I think of manipulating the media, I think of Shammy Sosa at the height of his House of Cards.

I meant it as a compliment. The honest members of the media know when they're getting manipulated and most honest members know Jim Thome takes the smart route when getting grilled about this sort of stuff. Frank Thomas has never learned his lesson. That's what makes this current situation so pathetic... it has happened before.

As for Shammy's manipulating of the media, most sports mediots refused to do anything to call out Shammy on his obvious lies, the big exception of course being Rick Reilly of Sports Illustrated. And how did the other mediots respond when Reilly challenged Shammy on his fib to be first to pee into a cup? They all ripped Reilly.

Have any of them come forward and admit Reilly was right along? Nope. In fact Paul Sullivan is such a dope, he is still making Flintstone vitamin jokes, published just last week in the Cubune. How pathetic is that?

soxguy
02-26-2006, 07:26 PM
Finally someone calls it like he see's it. Ken Williams saying Frank Thomas is an idiot! BOUT TIME. Thomas has been nothing but a troubled baby his whole career. I am glad he finally is gone even if it is 5 years too late!

NSSoxFan
02-26-2006, 07:27 PM
I'm sorry, I'm in no mood for any of this.

:D:

TornLabrum
02-26-2006, 07:27 PM
:rolling:

NSSoxFan
02-26-2006, 07:28 PM
Finally someone calls it like he see's it. Ken Williams saying Frank Thomas is an idiot! BOUT TIME. Thomas has been nothing but a troubled baby his whole career. I am glad he finally is gone even if it is 5 years too late!

Well, at least I know your sig is b.s. as well...

chisoxfanatic
02-26-2006, 07:28 PM
I personally don't think Kenny would've even said what he said if Frank hadn't constantly complained about how "harsh" he was treated at the end of his stay here. He was allowed to sit in the clubhouse and take in all of the things surrounding the championship in person, yet he really didn't have very much effect on why the Sox were where they were. If anything, he should be thankfull that he was even allowed to reap those benefits! He was NOT harshly treated there.

MarySwiss
02-26-2006, 07:28 PM
Gang:

I apologize for starting a thread on this. I didn't see it anywhere else in the Sox clubhouse section and didn't want to take a chance since it was Sunday.

By the way, Mark Gonzales' story about this is now on the Tribune web site:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-060226soxthomas,1,7075944.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Lip

"profanity-laced interview." Way to fan the flames without actually having to quote anything. God, I HATE this!!!!

Joosh
02-26-2006, 07:29 PM
Nevermind... At his point it's out of context.

TornLabrum
02-26-2006, 07:29 PM
I really don't know how to respond to all this. I'm very sad that my favorite baseball player ever is continuing to put his foot directly into his mouth. KW should have kept it to a 'no comment' but I really can't blame him for what he saying. Geez, I know Frank will come around eventually, but this is too much.

Kenny should have taken his own advice from a little over a week ago and simply said (for Ozzie's benefit), "No bleeping comment."

TheDarkGundam
02-26-2006, 07:30 PM
While I totally agree with KW that Frank just needs to shut up, KW probably shouldn't have flipped out like that. All of our favorite sports writers are gonna be going crazy (if they aren't already), and this story is gonna get huge. I think, as the GM, Kenny really needs to keep it professional. I realize this is really one of the only times he's done something like this, but it's not good. Saying crazy stuff that could get himself in trouble is Ozzie's job.
Regarding Frank's comments, did he honestly not have the slightest idea that he would most likely be leaving? All that stuff with Frank throwing out the first pitch, and making sure he got a chance to speak at the parade, was the Sox organization trying to give him a good sendoff.
I doubt Frank will show up for the ring ceremony, so I just hope that Frank won't do something stupid when the Sox play Oakland this year.

oeo
02-26-2006, 07:37 PM
Anyone remember Frank's 2003 "I'm just going to try to hit home runs from here on" comment? I personally called him an idiot at that point, and I won't attack KW for doing something that I've done before.

Frank Thomas was the single most talented individual to ever play for the Sox. He was an incredible baseball player the likes of which we aren't going to see on this team for a long, long time. His name, number, and likeness will soon be on the left field wall. That doesn't mean he wasn't selfish, or that he isn't whining.

Kind of makes me start to think that his power-heavy numbers of his short 2005 were just that. I hope not. :(:

RKMeibalane
02-26-2006, 07:39 PM
Finally someone calls it like he see's it. Ken Williams saying Frank Thomas is an idiot! BOUT TIME. Thomas has been nothing but a troubled baby his whole career. I am glad he finally is gone even if it is 5 years too late!

:rolling:

I can't... stop... laughing.

Steelrod
02-26-2006, 07:41 PM
While I totally agree with KW that Frank just needs to shut up, KW probably shouldn't have flipped out like that. All of our favorite sports writers are gonna be going crazy (if they aren't already), and this story is gonna get huge. I think, as the GM, Kenny really needs to keep it professional. I realize this is really one of the only times he's done something like this, but it's not good. Saying crazy stuff that could get himself in trouble is Ozzie's job.
Regarding Frank's comments, did he honestly not have the slightest idea that he would most likely be leaving? All that stuff with Frank throwing out the first pitch, and making sure he got a chance to speak at the parade, was the Sox organization trying to give him a good sendoff.
I doubt Frank will show up for the ring ceremony, so I just hope that Fra
nk won't do something stupid when the Sox play Oakland this year.
I think we can all count on Frank saying something stupid !!

NSSoxFan
02-26-2006, 07:48 PM
:rolling:

I can't... stop... laughing.

I don't see why.

:D:

chisoxlove
02-26-2006, 08:21 PM
It seems like Big Frank has made a new enemy. It's funny how this reminds me of the whole Ozzie-Magz fiasco.

Take a look...

http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/story/9269480/1


"He's an idiot. He's selfish. That's why we don't miss him," Williams said, responding to a Thomas interview that appeared in the Daily Southtown, a newspaper in the Chicago suburb of Tinley Park, Ill.


Damn! KW is steamed. Rarely do you see him rip into somebody like this. He later adds...


"We don't miss him, by the way," Williams said. "If you go out there and ask any one of my players or staff members, we don't miss him.
"We don't miss his attitude. We don't miss the whining. We don't miss it. Good riddance. See you later."


It seems to me that KW must've always felt this way about Big Frank; Such hostility does not appear overnight. KW has always hated Frank, but was professional and kept these feelings to himself. Now that Thomas has been pushing and prodding (and bitching), KW has reason to let loose.

I also feel that if push came to shove, Ozzie, JR, and all the ChiSox have KW's back. BIG TIME.

Any thoughts?

Edit: Sorry to re-post the article for the 50th time...I do think that the Sox (and Sox fans?) are united on this one.

alohafri
02-26-2006, 08:22 PM
Is it too late to give #35 to Jim Thome?

cheeses_h_rice
02-26-2006, 08:29 PM
:?:

Wow. Kenny flipped the buffet table again.

D. TODD
02-26-2006, 08:35 PM
KW has always been one to speak his mind. I guess he was tired of all of the jabs Frank has been giving out. As the g.m. I wish he could have restrained from making this a public pissing contest, but too late now. When it is all said and done I love Frank for his great years with the Sox, and KW brought the holy grail of baseball home, plus I like his off season moves. So, all in all I wish them both the best of luck. I just home this is the end of the verbal sparring. I doubt it though.

NSSoxFan
02-26-2006, 08:58 PM
Is it too late to give #35 to Jim Thome?

Are you ****ing kidding me?

RealFan
02-26-2006, 09:03 PM
Sorry if this is already somewhere else. I did check this forum and another before starting a new thread. I guess I am not surprised. Frank keeps talking about his departure and at some point, KW was going to have to respond (or maybe not).

The story opens as follows:

Angry and disgusted with the latest comments from former slugger Frank Thomas (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/4527/), Chicago White Sox (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/chw/) general manager Kenny Williams fired back Sunday, calling the two-time MVP "an idiot."

"He's an idiot. He's selfish. That's why we don't miss him," Williams said, responding to a Thomas interview that appeared in The Daily Southtown, a newspaper in the Chicago suburb of Tinley Park, Ill.

More at the link:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AkKygtWp_GBe2I3hdCFEtCQRvLYF?slug=ap-whitesox-williams&prov=ap&type=lgns

chisoxfanatic
02-26-2006, 09:04 PM
Look at the "Talking Baseball" forum...

RealFan
02-26-2006, 09:06 PM
Gosh - my bad. The only freakin' one I didn't check. Thanks.:redface:

I hope the mods delete this thread. Thx.

thomas35forever
02-26-2006, 09:07 PM
All right, I guess this definitely means we won't be retiring Frank's number in May.

TornLabrum
02-26-2006, 09:08 PM
Gosh - my bad. The only freakin' one I didn't check. Thanks.:redface:

I hope the mods delete this thread. Thx.

Nah, we just merge them all into one superthread.

voodoochile
02-26-2006, 09:10 PM
:?:

Wow. Kenny flipped the buffet table again.

I agree... ****, KW.

Jeez, how hard is it to understand that Frank was disappointed about not getting to leave on his own terms and cut him some slack?

Regardless of who said what or when or why, you could be the bigger man about it, KW.

Frank's a HOF player and the greatest player in team history, you should have just let it go...

voodoochile
02-26-2006, 09:11 PM
Are you ****ing kidding me?

Probably no, after all, Frank hasn't hit a HR for the Sox in nearly 9 months, so obviously he hasn't done a thing for the fans lately... not that the haters ever needed an excuse...

Ol' No. 2
02-26-2006, 09:13 PM
Meanwhile, sportswriters are having it easy. Someone stirs up **** and everyone has a story for a week. I doubt either one of these guys would have said what they said without some prodding and leading questions. Beats working for a living.
:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

This whole thing is really starting to suck. Thomas is frustrated over his situation and is lashing out at anyone he can reach. Kenny was taking the high road at SoxFest, but a man can only take so much. Both of them SHOULD just ****. But taking sides in this pissing match is dumb. There are no good guys and bad guys here. Just two guys displaying the weaknesses inherent in being human.

voodoochile
02-26-2006, 09:16 PM
Getting 8.5 million to play thirty games after making 8 million to play 70 games. IF THAT ISN'T RESPECT, WHAT IS IT?

It's called a guaranteed contract. That means you get the money regardless of what injuries you have. The Sox signed it just like Frank signed the DSC laden one back in 1997 or whatever.

It's not like the Sox signed an injury riddled player to that kind of money, they signed a guy who was relatively healthy coming off a tricep injury who appeared to be headed for a nice ending to his career and then the ankle injury jumped up again.

The Sox immediately cut their ties just like immediately used the DSC when Frank hurt his arm. The knife cuts both ways on this one...

nasox
02-26-2006, 09:17 PM
Can a mod explain why this is in Talking Baseball? Seems like Sox news to me...

I guess I have Curious George Syndrome. :smile:

TornLabrum
02-26-2006, 09:18 PM
Meanwhile, sportswriters are having it easy. Someone stirs up **** and everyone has a story for a week. I doubt either one of these guys would have said what they said without some prodding and leading questions. Beats working for a living.
:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

This whole thing is really starting to suck. Thomas is frustrated over his situation and is lashing out at anyone he can reach. Kenny was taking the high road at SoxFest, but a man can only take so much. Both of them SHOULD just ****. But taking sides in this pissing match is dumb. There are no good guys and bad guys here. Just two guys displaying the weaknesses inherent in being human.

In my next column, written before the last flair-up, I compared what Frank is feeling to being a jilted lover.

I also pose this question for the Thomas bashers: If you fired after working with a company 16 years, how would you feel? Would you be reluctant to go to the company picnic a couple of months later, even if invited?

This kind of stuff takes time to heal. Both the mediots and Kenny Williams should be aware of that. Well, the mediots really are. They're exploiting that fact. Kenny Williams is like the jilter in this. I have a feeling he's now at the stage where it's like getting sick of hearing his ex-lover badmouth him to anyone who will listen.

CLR01
02-26-2006, 09:20 PM
Finally someone calls it like he see's it. Ken Williams saying Frank Thomas is an idiot! BOUT TIME. Thomas has been nothing but a troubled baby his whole career. I am glad he finally is gone even if it is 5 years too late!



They have got to be putting something in the water in Arlington Heights. West can we ban all IP's coming out of there?

TornLabrum
02-26-2006, 09:21 PM
Can a mod explain why this is in Talking Baseball? Seems like Sox news to me...

I guess I have Curious George Syndrome. :smile:

The Thomas stuff started in Talking Baseball. Thomas is no longer a member of the White Sox. It all just ended up over here. Beats the roadhouse.

IlliniSox4Life
02-26-2006, 09:21 PM
I know Mommy and Daddy are divorced, but why can't they at least be nice to eachother?

Ol' No. 2
02-26-2006, 09:21 PM
In my next column, written before the last flair-up, I compared what Frank is feeling to being a jilted lover.

I also pose this question for the Thomas bashers: If you fired after working with a company 16 years, how would you feel? Would you be reluctant to go to the company picnic a couple of months later, even if invited?

This kind of stuff takes time to heal. Both the mediots and Kenny Williams should be aware of that. Well, the mediots really are. They're exploiting that fact. Kenny Williams is like the jilter in this. I have a feeling he's now at the stage where it's like getting sick of hearing his ex-lover badmouth him to anyone who will listen.Too bad there aren't any actual baseball activities going on to write about instead of stirring up this ****.

Beer Can Chicken
02-26-2006, 09:22 PM
I agree that KW should have been the bigger man and turned the other cheek. But how much can one guy take? Thomas has been doing this for years and the majority of his ire has been directed at KW and Reinsdorf.

Thomas is the greatest player in SOX history. He is a Hall of Famer. He is also the biggest brat in SOX history. It is no coincidence that they won the series largely without his presence. It is sad that it had to end like this, but enough is enough, Frank.

Pureone
02-26-2006, 09:22 PM
Finally someone calls it like he see's it. Ken Williams saying Frank Thomas is an idiot! BOUT TIME. Thomas has been nothing but a troubled baby his whole career. I am glad he finally is gone even if it is 5 years too late!

:rolling:

Please... please.... never speak again.

soxjim
02-26-2006, 09:22 PM
True Frank does have some hard feelings toward the SOX. I have left places with not the best of feelings you just get over it and excel in your next place.

CLR01
02-26-2006, 09:24 PM
Meanwhile, sportswriters are having it easy. Someone stirs up **** and everyone has a story for a week. I doubt either one of these guys would have said what they said without some prodding and leading questions. Beats working for a living.
:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

This whole thing is really starting to suck. Thomas is frustrated over his situation and is lashing out at anyone he can reach. Kenny was taking the high road at SoxFest, but a man can only take so much. Both of them SHOULD just ****. But taking sides in this pissing match is dumb. There are no good guys and bad guys here. Just two guys displaying the weaknesses inherent in being human.


:worship:


What he said.

WCCMIKE
02-26-2006, 09:24 PM
I'm a huge Frank Thomas fan and really hate how this is turning out but Kenny couldn't take anymore.:(:

gbergman
02-26-2006, 09:24 PM
And I think Frank could have been more gracious to the fans of Chicago upon his exit even though he left on bad terms with management. I was expecting him to be more grateful for the support he received from the fans during his 16 years in Chicago rather than focusing on his disappointment with management. So, it's true that some fans are a bit angry with Frank but just as you can justify Frank's bitterness about how he was let go, you should also be able to understand that some fans feel let down by Frank and the Sox, too.

after the sox won the alcs we were chanting we love from, and he responded the same so he was grateful, and when we channted we want frank back he smiled and gave a thumbs up so

TornLabrum
02-26-2006, 09:25 PM
They have got to be putting something in the water in Arlington Heights. West can we ban all IP's coming out of there?

I think listening to The Score more than 10 minutes a day does that to you. We should have pity on the guy.

CLR01
02-26-2006, 09:26 PM
I think listening to The Score more than 10 minutes a day does that to you. We should have pity on the guy.


I have the score on now.....:?:



Ofcourse they are talking about the Cubs.

cheeses_h_rice
02-26-2006, 09:27 PM
:knue

:moron

:giangreco

Oh me, oh my!!! Christmas came early this year. Bwahahahahaha!!!

PAPChiSox729
02-26-2006, 09:29 PM
:knue

:moron

:giangreco

Oh me, oh my!!! Christmas came early this year. Bwahahahahaha!!!

:roflmao:

RKMeibalane
02-26-2006, 09:31 PM
I agree that KW should have been the bigger man and turned the other cheek. But how much can one guy take? Thomas has been doing this for years and the majority of his ire has been directed at KW and Reinsdorf.

Actually, Frank and Reinsdorf have always had a good relationship. It's one of the reasons why Frank was able to remain with the Sox for as long as he did. Frank's frustration with JR appears to be a recent thing, because it's never been a problem before.

voodoochile
02-26-2006, 09:32 PM
I'm a huge Frank Thomas fan and really hate how this is turning out but Kenny couldn't take anymore.:(:

Really? And you know this how?

KW gets paid big bucks to do what he does. Part of that is supposedly to manipulate the PR the Sox generate and appear to be calm and poised in the media. Frank meanwhile gets paid to hit baseballs as far as he can.

The greatest player in team history got the boot this past fall. Yeah, he got paid a lot of money to play for the team. So do they all. He's upset about being forced out of the only professional home he's ever known. How well do you handle this same situation when it happens to you?

Meanwhile the guy who cut him loose (justified or not) just called him an idiot. Way to keep your cool and lower the pressure, KW. Way to keep the focus where it should be, on the players who currently play for the Sox as they open ST the season they are defending their title... awesome job, KW... simply awesome...

TornLabrum
02-26-2006, 09:33 PM
Actually, Frank and Reinsdorf have always had a good relationship. It's one of the reasons why Frank was able to remain with the Sox for as long as he did. Frank's frustration with JR appears to be a recent thing, because it's never been a problem before.

I think Jerry Reinsdorf interceded on Frank's behalf after KW invoked the DSC and negotiated his last contract. Maybe Frank expected him to do so again and was disappointed.

RKMeibalane
02-26-2006, 09:34 PM
Really? And you know this how?

KW gets paid big bucks to do what he does. Part of that is supposedly to manipulate the PR the Sox generate and appear to be calm and poised in the media. Frank meanwhile gets paid to hit baseballs as far as he can.

The greatest player in team history got the boot this past fall. Yeah, he got paid a lot of money to play for the team. So do they all. He's upset about being forced out of the only professional home he's ever known. How well do you handle this same situation when it happens to you?

Meanwhile the guy who cut him loose (justified or not) just called him an idiot. Way to keep your cool and lower the pressure, KW. Way to keep the focus where it should be, on the players who currently play for the Sox as they open ST the season they are defending their title... awesome job, KW... simply awesome...

You know what's really disturbing about all of this? It's February 26. The media still has almost three months to keeping throwing gasoline on the fire before Frank comes to town. If things are bad now, they're only going to get worse before Oakland comes to Chicago in May.

GoSox2K3
02-26-2006, 09:34 PM
WGN TV will be showing video of KW's comments in a few minutes.

RKMeibalane
02-26-2006, 09:35 PM
I think Jerry Reinsdorf interceded on Frank's behalf after KW invoked the DSC and negotiated his last contract. Maybe Frank expected him to do so again and was disappointed.

That's what I think, as well. Overall though, the two of them seem to have had a good relationship.

NSSoxFan
02-26-2006, 09:36 PM
Meanwhile the guy who cut him loose (justified or not) just called him an idiot. Way to keep your cool and lower the pressure, KW. Way to keep the focus where it should be, on the players who currently play for the Sox as they open ST the season they are defending their title... awesome job, KW... simply awesome...

As much as I respect all the things KW has done throughout his five years as GM, I've never been able to get over his inability to keep his feelings to himself. It started in 2001 when he 'spoke his mind' to the media about Gord Ash and company. As GM, I would love to see him keep his cool and portray a calm and collected attitude for the sake of the Sox organization.

The Wimperoo
02-26-2006, 09:36 PM
Meanwhile the guy who cut him loose (justified or not) just called him an idiot. Way to keep your cool and lower the pressure, KW. Way to keep the focus where it should be, on the players who currently play for the Sox as they open ST the season they are defending their title... awesome job, KW... simply awesome...

Right on. There is no defense for the personal insults. KW is an executive act like one.

soxjim
02-26-2006, 09:36 PM
I'm just ready to watch baseball and not listen to the bickering back and forth.

BV2005
02-26-2006, 09:37 PM
Kenny Williams had some intresting opinons of Frank Thomas [Here]http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060226&content_id=1323969&vkey=spt2006news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060226&content_id=1323969&vkey=spt2006news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws) [/URL]It just wouldn't be an offseason without some disgruntled ex player

oeo
02-26-2006, 09:37 PM
I agree... ****, KW.

Jeez, how hard is it to understand that Frank was disappointed about not getting to leave on his own terms and cut him some slack?

Regardless of who said what or when or why, you could be the bigger man about it, KW.

Frank's a HOF player and the greatest player in team history, you should have just let it go...

When it gets the point that he just keeps on whining about the issue. One time was enough, I could cut him some slack there. But when he keeps on bringing up, it's time for him to let it go as well.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending either side and Frank is still by favorite player of all time...but Frank needs to keep his mouth shut as well. He needs to let it go already.

Ol' No. 2
02-26-2006, 09:39 PM
Maybe the mods could save themselves some work if they just left a locked thread in the clubhouse directing would-be posters on this "breaking" story to the ever-growing thread in Talking Baseball.

voodoochile
02-26-2006, 09:41 PM
Maybe the mods could save themselves some work if they just left a locked thread in the clubhouse directing would-be posters on this "breaking" story to the ever-growing thread in Talking Baseball.

What fun would that be? :rolleyes:

TornLabrum
02-26-2006, 09:43 PM
What fun would that be? :rolleyes:

You can do whatever you want about that, Voodoo. I'm going to bed in about 15-20 minutes.

CLR01
02-26-2006, 09:47 PM
WGN TV will be showing video of KW's comments in a few minutes.


How nice they did a report from Dusty's place and asked him to comment on the situation.

WGN :rolleyes:

voodoochile
02-26-2006, 09:47 PM
You can do whatever you want about that, Voodoo. I'm going to bed in about 15-20 minutes.

Well, I am going to bed now, so I guess I'll check to see how many merges are needed in the morning...:D:

BTW, I like the Guy Bacci article, but I don't necessarily agree with it.

santo=dorf
02-26-2006, 09:49 PM
When it gets the point that he just keeps on whining about the issue. One time was enough, I could cut him some slack there. But when he keeps on bringing up, it's time for him to let it go as well.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending either side and Frank is still by favorite player of all time...but Frank needs to keep his mouth shut as well. He needs to let it go already.
Well it's the media's fault for Frank continuously running his mouth about the organization.

KW went too far with calling him an "idiot," and he's starting to become a hypocrite as well after telling Ozzie to say "no comment."

RKMeibalane
02-26-2006, 09:51 PM
How nice they did a report from Dusty's place and asked him to comment on the situation.

WGN :rolleyes:

What did the wise man have to say?

Viva Medias B's
02-26-2006, 09:52 PM
I agree... ****, KW.

Jeez, how hard is it to understand that Frank was disappointed about not getting to leave on his own terms and cut him some slack?

Regardless of who said what or when or why, you could be the bigger man about it, KW.

Frank's a HOF player and the greatest player in team history, you should have just let it go...

I think Frank should ****. Yes, he's an HOFer and our franchise's greatest player. His number should be retired, and a statue of Frank should be erected at USCF. Nevertheless, I wish Frank would move on and focus on his current team instead of being obsessed with his former one. Our organization bent over backwards for Frank so many times. If I were KW, I would have probably addressed Frank's comments with better decorum. Nevertheless, is anyone disputing the substance of what KW said?

TheDarkGundam
02-26-2006, 09:54 PM
What did the wise man have to say?
Really nothing interesting. He basically said he hates to see stuff like this happpen.

TornLabrum
02-26-2006, 09:54 PM
Well, I am going to bed now, so I guess I'll check to see how many merges are needed in the morning...:D:

BTW, I like the Guy Bacci article, but I don't necessarily agree with it.

After today's events, mine was a bit obsolete, except for my extremely prescient final question. The answer is, "They didn't."

cwsfannick
02-26-2006, 09:55 PM
I believe both parties could have taken the high road on this matter.

In my opinion Frank is more upset about not making $11MM this year than about not getting a phone call. Former standout athletes measure respect in how much they are getting paid and now Frank is on an incentive laden contract. I believe Frank's ego has been bruised and now he is trying to heal it the only way he knows by ripping those who have played significant roles in his past. It is always easier to rip others than be honest with yourself.

KW should not have commented on this issue. The part that steams me right or wrong is the fact that he spoke for all the players when this may have been a personal issue with his comment. I have to believe that all the players are going to be asked their opinion of Frank by the media.

TheDarkGundam
02-26-2006, 09:58 PM
What really amazes me is that no one has written a "You write tomorrow's Cubune headline" yet.

TornLabrum
02-26-2006, 09:58 PM
I believe both parties could have taken the high road on this matter.

In my opinion Frank is more upset about not making $11MM this year than about not getting a phone call. Former standout athletes measure respect in how much they are getting paid and now Frank is on an incentive laden contract. I believe Frank's ego has been bruised and now he is trying to heal it the only way he knows by ripping those who have played significant roles in his past. It is always easier to rip others than be honest with yourself.

KW should not have commented on this issue. The part that steams me right or wrong is the fact that he spoke for all the players when this may have been a personal issue with his comment. I have to believe that all the players are going to be asked their opinion of Frank by the media.

I was pleased with how Paulie took the high road when he was asked to comment. Maybe the "C" in his uniform is a good thing.

RKMeibalane
02-26-2006, 10:00 PM
I was pleased with how Paulie took the high road when he was asked to comment. Maybe the "C" in his uniform is a good thing.

I agree. I was impressed by both his and Ozzie's responses. I would expect that most players will have a similar response. These guys are here to play baseball, not talk about players on other teams.

Viva Medias B's
02-26-2006, 10:01 PM
I wonder if Ozzie Jr. will say anything about this on El Beísbol Latino de Hoy. Meanwhile, they just said future former Marlin Miguel Cabrera will be their guest tonight. While Ozzie Sr. had no comment, I wonder if Ozzie Jr. will convey Ozzie Sr.'s thoughts.

Ol' No. 2
02-26-2006, 10:02 PM
I agree. I was impressed by both his and Ozzie's responses. I would expect that most players will have a similar response. These guys are here to play baseball, not talk about players on other teams.You just know the sportswriters will be prodding Frank for another quote tomorrow. The best we can hope for is that both of them got it out of their system and will just **** from now on.

TornLabrum
02-26-2006, 10:03 PM
You just know the sportswriters will be prodding Frank for another quote tomorrow. The best we can hope for is that both of them got it out of their system and will just **** from now on.

I can just see Phil Arvia trying to sit KW down for an exclusive interview.

WhiteSoxFan84
02-26-2006, 10:03 PM
IN THE END....

Frank Thomas will enter the Hall as a member of the White Sox and this silly episode will be looked back upon and laughed at. # 35 will forever go down as the greatest White Sox hitter right next to Shoeless Joe if not higher.

He started burning the bridge, but KW should not have engulfed the flames. He should've just ignored the subject, whether what he said was true or not. I don't think anyone really made a big deal of what Frank said, but now you know the whole country will be all over KW's comments and Ozzie/KW will be looked at as the Loud Mouth Bandits.

I love KW. I love Frank. I love Ozzie. Let's just hope this ends soon and it doesn't get any worse. And don't forget, Frank is the man. Just keep your mouth shut until you retire and are in the Hall :D:

CubsfansareDRUNK
02-26-2006, 10:14 PM
I think Frank should ****. Yes, he's an HOFer and our franchise's greatest player. His number should be retired, and a statue of Frank should be erected at USCF. Nevertheless, I wish Frank would move on and focus on his current team instead of being obsessed with his former one. Our organization bent over backwards for Frank so many times. If I were KW, I would have probably addressed Frank's comments with better decorum. Nevertheless, is anyone disputing the substance of what KW said?

wow, i could not have described this situation any better. Took the words right outta my mouth!

munchman33
02-26-2006, 10:29 PM
Nevertheless, is anyone disputing the substance of what KW said?

Yes. Frank is not an idiot. He's mad. And there are plenty of people who think he should be.

Flight #24
02-26-2006, 10:36 PM
Let's just take a look at the "shots" taken by Frank at the org:

I had a $10 million option; I knew I wasn't going to get that next year. It wasn't even about the money. It was about that pride coming back. I thought they would restructure it and that would be it.


Arvia: The buyout was $3.5 million. Are you saying if they tossed another $1 million on top of that, you'd be in a Sox uniform? Thomas: Most definitely. Shot? Ummmm.....no. I'd call that loyalty.



I'm just a little upset with the way things were handled. If people had just called me and done the right things that way, it would have been fine. But you just don't treat a player, the special player that I'd been for them for so long, with that much disrespect overnight.
(Thomas contended he deserved to be called prior to Konerko's signing and the resulting speculation that it would end his Sox career. Williams has said he left Thomas a message with an invitation to call him back.) Thomas: Kenny left me one message in all this, and that's the day he signed Paul Konerko. He left it on the voice mail, said, "I know you've seen we signed Konerko, and I can help you try to get signed somewhere else." Those were the words that came to me over my cell phone. You think I'm going to call back on some (stuff) like that?

Doesn't sound like an unreasonable thought to me: in fact it sounds like the Sox thought NOTHING of cutting the greatest player in franchise history. Frank DESERVED better than to be treated like that.



Arvia: Do you feel like you'll be able to have a relationship again with Jerry Reinsdorf, with Kenny Williams?
Thomas: Of course. I've never said I hate these people or anything like that.
Like I said before, if they had just called and said, "Thanks for the ride, we're going a different direction," I could handle that. That's all I wanted. That was the whole thing.
Another "shot", huh? sounds like Frank stating his issue and moving past it.



Arvia: Did you ever talk to Jerry?
Thomas: He left me a message a week after all that blew up in Chicago. I never got back because it's a done deal now. What's he going to tell me now, a week later, after the whole city has made their point? I've got a lot of respect for Jerry Reinsdorf, I do. But I really thought, the relationship we had over the last 16 years, he would have picked up the phone to say, "Big guy, we're moving forward. We're going somewhere different. We don't know your situation or what's going to happen." I can live with that. I really can. But treating me like some passing-by player? I've got no respect for that.Again - is that really a "shot" at Jerry? He didn't say he doesn't respect Jerry, he says he expected him to treat him better and that he doesn't respect how he was treated. Hard to argue with that one.

GoSox2K3
02-26-2006, 10:41 PM
I found this statement puzzling from the Southtown interview:
http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/261sd1.htm



Arvia: Honestly, from my point of view, the Carl Everett thing with you, that was because they weren't sure about you ...
Thomas: No. Kenny put too many guys together. You can look through that. He put too many great players together. He put Carl and I, who could start for anybody any day of the week, in a situation.
Arvia: And you guys handled it well ... Thomas: We did handle it well, because we pulled each other aside and said, "Hey, it's about winning for this team," and we did that. We developed a great relationship.

So....is Frank criticizing KW for adding Carl for '05? In hindsight, seeing how he missed all but six(?) weeks of the season, how can he criticize the move?

Thomas could start for anybody any day of the week in '05? :?: I don't get it.

I'm not angry at Thomas for his comments. I just feel sorry for him. All these years and all those accomplishments and he's always pouting.

Flight #24
02-26-2006, 10:41 PM
Let's move on to Frank's comments on KW:

Thomas: No it isn't. Bottom line, Kenny and I have never seen eye to eye, from Day 1. There's no secret about that. It started in 2000. That has stuck with him from Day 1, when he took the job in 2000.

Thomas: In 2000, I wanted to get it handled, because that was the year I had 43 and (143), and we lost to Seattle in the playoffs. That's when Kenny and I went (he gives the raspberry) about that situation. All I wanted was to have my damn contract guaranteed and it deserved to be guaranteed then.

That's the sum total of Frank's "shots" at the org: that he thought he deserved better based on his place in franchise history, that he expected JR to treat him better and can't respect his actions, and that he & Kenny never saw eye to eye.

IMO Kenny never liked Frank. He disliked him from day 1, he tolerated him, and at the first opportunity he got rid of him. And then when Frank complains about it with disappointment but no actual slams on the Sox org, Kenny goes ballistic. I love KW as a GM, but there's no excuse for his treatment of the greatest player in franchise history.

And yes, Frank could have taken the high road and has a bad habit of not shutting up. But it's not like he's taking Magglio-like potshots at the Sox org or management. And yet, Sox fans are quick to jump all over him and slam him, which reflects poorly on them more than on Frank.

But it all gets eaten up by the mediots. Sad.

wsox3505
02-26-2006, 11:06 PM
Clearly, this is a battle between KW and Hurt. Hurt is hurting because he's come to the realization that his career is almost over and KW treated him like a bum. Although he's bringing up other teammates, he's more or less criticizing KW personally for the moves he's made just because he hates him, not so much on the merits. It's not an attack on the white sox, IMO and so what if it is. . . .he still loves his fans.

I think that once Hurt is healthy, maybe before he comes back with the A's in May, there should be an octagon placed in the middle of the cell and KW and Hurt should fight it out.

HotelWhiteSox
02-26-2006, 11:20 PM
Wow, just saw the actual comments on TV. The articles don't hold a candle to see him saying this stuff. After all the 2005 interviews I thought Frank would understand if him and the team had to part ways. I completely understand him being mad, he was replaced, but I wish both parties would have just handled it privately! Even if Frank doesn't answer, leave him a voicemail that tells him to shut the **** up, I think this just gives people another excuse to look at the White Sox negatively.

Let's move on to Frank's comments on KW:
That's the sum total of Frank's "shots" at the org: that he thought he deserved better based on his place in franchise history, that he expected JR to treat him better and can't respect his actions, and that he & Kenny never saw eye to eye.

IMO Kenny never liked Frank. He disliked him from day 1, he tolerated him, and at the first opportunity he got rid of him. And then when Frank complains about it with disappointment but no actual slams on the Sox org, Kenny goes ballistic. I love KW as a GM, but there's no excuse for his treatment of the greatest player in franchise history.

And yes, Frank could have taken the high road and has a bad habit of not shutting up. But it's not like he's taking Magglio-like potshots at the Sox org or management. And yet, Sox fans are quick to jump all over him and slam him, which reflects poorly on them more than on Frank.

But it all gets eaten up by the mediots. Sad.

Agreed. There were trade rumors every year. It was no secret that Kenny didn't really want him here, but I think he feared that fan backlash, but now that he can fall back on the World Series title. In the mean time, the national media loves this, and now the team has to be bombared with quetions about this (a negative vibe when coming off a WS victory :\ )

IlliniSox4Life
02-26-2006, 11:21 PM
We will know who is right in this argument in a year or two. Bottom line is if Frank is healthy and plays, he wins the argument, and if he is forced to retire, Kenny wins.

As far as exactly how everything was handled, both sides made statements they shouldn't have. If Frank ends up being healthy and has another couple of productive years, Kenny traded away the best player in team history for not trusting him. If he is injured, Kenny made the right move and Frank is just reluctant to admit his career is over.

Chisox003
02-26-2006, 11:30 PM
We will know who is right in this argument in a year or two. Bottom line is if Frank is healthy and plays, he wins the argument, and if he is forced to retire, Kenny wins.

As far as exactly how everything was handled, both sides made statements they shouldn't have. If Frank ends up being healthy and has another couple of productive years, Kenny traded away the best player in team history for not trusting him. If he is injured, Kenny made the right move and Frank is just reluctant to admit his career is over.
Whether Frank can play or not doesn't matter at this point, Kenny made the right move and did what was best for the team.

Whether or not he handled it correctly is beyond me, and whether or not this pre-school war of words between them will end is also beyond me.

But there's no doubt in my mind that KW made the right move. Now I wish they'd both shutup and quit embarrassing themselves.

Hey, 34 days until Opening Night! Yayyyy! :gulp:

California Sox
02-26-2006, 11:31 PM
there should be an octagon placed in the middle of the cell and KW and Hurt should fight it out.

I don't think KW would want to do that. His only chance would be to run around the octagon screaming for help.