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View Full Version : Ozzie apologizes to A Rod; Sosa HOFer?


SoLongFrank
02-18-2006, 10:33 AM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-sox18.html
http://www.suntimes.com/output/deluca/cst-spt-deluca18.html

I was surprised this didn't create more columns out of NY.

SamME was all over the map today.
http://www.suntimes.com/output/telander/cst-spt-rick17.html Why roids are very bad for the game: 292 homers from 1998 to 2003.
http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20060217-125728-3764r.htm http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/columnists/mcgrath/story/5531516p-4981900c.html Was Sosa really as revered in Chicago as MJ or W Payton?

My recollection of Sosa prior to the HR chase year is that most fans I knew already suspected Big ShamMe as being the biggest roid user in baseball. Big Mac had always been Big so adding a little extra almost went unnoticeable. But Sosa? He went from 185 to 240 in a very short time. Just ask any NBA or MLB player trying to do that the natural way how impossible that feat is?

What I've always detested about ShamMe is that he's the perfect example that roids doesn't just mean more HR's. It affects ALL the numbers. IMO, without roids ShamMe might have finished no better than a .250 hitter with maybe 300 HR's at best.

I liked him when he was with the White Sox wearing that 185 pds. I figured he'd put on 20 pds the natural way & be a solid baseball player. But when he became a cub & grew an extra 1/3rd I was glad he was no longer playing for us.

IMO, Sosa is the least deserving of the HOF amongst the roid users: Big Mac, Bonds, Palmeiro, & Canseco. All of them have produced HOF numbers & then some with roids but their eligibility should be based on whether they could have put up HOF numbers w/out the roids. Maybe Bonds. That's how much Sosa's numbers have impacted the integrity of the game.

chisox2005
02-18-2006, 11:11 AM
Wow, that Washington Times article does not mess around. He flat out calls McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds a bunch of steroid-filled hacks. Wish more writers would call these players out like that.

patbooyah
02-18-2006, 11:21 AM
He is a joyless figure who never has grasped that joylessness does not translate well if you are playing a child's game. As one of the most put-upon stars of our time, he is about as gracious and inviting as a hemorrhoid.

best. paragraph. ever.

veeter
02-18-2006, 01:27 PM
Wow, that Washington Times article does not mess around. He flat out calls McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds a bunch of steroid-filled hacks. Wish more writers would call these players out like that.This is great news because Barry Rosner, who I like, is coming with the "Don't blame Sammy, he was just a pawn of the era, angle." Look, Sammy wasn't five years old. He knew he was cheating. So did McGwire. AND not everybody did 'roids. This is such a cop-out opinion to take.

soxfanatlanta
02-18-2006, 01:39 PM
I'm glad he apologized, but it will be meaningless if he keeps shooting his mouth off for the sake of shooting it off. At first I was amused at the comments, but then it occurred to me that he is a spokesperson of our team, and he should be expected to handle things with a bit more class. I'm not saying that he should be a Yes man, but his tirades should be more selective.

cheeses_h_rice
02-18-2006, 04:35 PM
I wonder if Telander has been reading WSI...

Sosa's agent, Adam Katz, said Wednesday that Sammy, 37, is almost certainly going to retire from baseball.


Katz said, using Agent Cliche No. 1, "It wasn't about the money.''
Of course not.


Sammy was quitting baseball, not because the Washington Nationals, a weak, second-year team, for God's sake, were offering him a nonguaranteed $500,000 -- 1/34th what he made last season with the Baltimore Orioles -- but because, Katz said, Sosa didn't want "to underperform like he did last year because it was just too painful for him.''


Even the Flintstone vitamins couldn't help.


:bandance:

Lip Man 1
02-18-2006, 08:25 PM
Some interesting stories tonight on the Tribune regarding Sosa's possible HOF induction. Based on this small sample, it looks like he'll get in. One story is comments from the Tribune writers, one is a national sample:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-060218sosavotes,1,3348351.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-060218sosa,1,6479037.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Lip

SoLongFrank
02-20-2006, 12:21 PM
I think this is the best compromise. I've read more columns both in & out of Chicago this past weekend & I'm leaning towards induction for all of them as well. I can't get around the fact that there was no policy in place at the time they did it to where it was against the rules.

Morally they now seem detestable because they cheated. IMO there is credible evidence that Sosa cheated: the paper bag full of 10's of $1000's that he supposedly was robbed of in a nation known for it's sales of roids.

So when they get inducted it's going to leave a sour taste in many fan's mouth. It will also give the game a black eye. The best way to prevent that is to create a Roids Rage section in the HOF that serves to both educate the public about the harm, a detailed discussion on how it may have inflated numbers during that era, & a mention of the players in that discussion.

It's not a dirty list where players are being singled out. It's more of a public awareness section where certain players (ShamME) obviously come up in the discussion.

Tekijawa
02-20-2006, 01:27 PM
ON ESPN1000 a week ago they were talking about Sammy being a first balot HOF Canidate... I don't know how any of these guys get in on Balot one!

Nellie_Fox
02-20-2006, 03:20 PM
...I can't get around the fact that there was no policy in place at the time they did it to where it was against the rules. So the fact that it was a federal felony isn't "against the rules" enough?

Hitmen77
02-20-2006, 10:46 PM
Interesting thing about that Sunday Trib "Sosa HOF?" article is the comparison of Sosa vs. other non-HOFers in categories other than HRs.

I found it very interesting that Harold Baines had many more career RBIs than Sosa with less than 1/2 the HRs (I don't have the article in front of me and can't remember the exact numbers).

SoLongFrank
02-21-2006, 01:09 PM
Another article suggested that if roids is the difference maker between a double & homerun what does Sosa look like as a HOF if you simply swap his double & homerun numbers? If you do this for all of the roids guys how do they look? I think Sosa looks weakest amongst them including Palmeiro.

Was Andro against the law at the time? I thought it was legal. I'm sure Sosa's roids from C America were illegal but he's not likely to play again so without a posititve test against him it remains speculation.

The problem with keeping Sosa out is that it opens the door to keeping others out on the basis of mostly speculation. How many players including Tejada now would fit that list?

Nellie_Fox
02-21-2006, 01:43 PM
Was Andro against the law at the time? I thought it was legal. Anabolic steroids were added to the federal controlled substance list in 1990 (schedule III) making possession (unless prescribed) a felony.

fuzzy_patters
02-21-2006, 02:32 PM
Some interesting stories tonight on the Tribune regarding Sosa's possible HOF induction. Based on this small sample, it looks like he'll get in. One story is comments from the Tribune writers, one is a national sample:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-060218sosavotes,1,3348351.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-060218sosa,1,6479037.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Lip

How do you figure that it looks like he will get in? It takes a seventy-five percent vote to get in, and there were quite a few no, maybe-not, and undecided answers in the national article. It looks to me like his induction is a borderline call from reading the articles.

SoLongFrank
02-21-2006, 03:27 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/20/AR2006022001360.html
What a wierd article. it mentions Bond's Dad was an alcoholic & his brother a drug abuser but then it just lobbies on that Bond's should retire before his time to leave Hank Aaron's record intact. Bond's is 7 away from Ruth & 48 away from Aaron & roid's aside the fact that he plays in a park designed specifically for him to hit HR's & plays in 2 more (COL, ARZ) that among the league's best band boxes it's very conceivable that if he can play he might eclipse both records in 2006 at the age of 42.

Do I believe Barry doped? Yes. But not for the same reason's as Sosa, Palmeiro, Canseco, Giambi, Mac, or yes possibly Tejada. I don't believe Barry doped in the prime of his career (27-33). I believe he doped the last 5 & he mainly did it to speed up recovery & escape pain. Now maybe I'm in the minority but I don't think his use was extensive nor did it have a great impact on his numbers. The guy has a phenomenal swing with a Godlike eye & tremendous patience at the plate. Sosa can't hold his jock strap. That's the difference between the two. I can't imagine any real fan of baseball not recognizing that & applauding Barry if he should do that this year.

It's just my opinion but I believe that where he plays & the division he plays in has had a much greater impact on his numbers than any thing else. When you add up his home games & games at AZ & COL the guy has over 100 gms where he's capable of hitting a HR.

I hope he stays healthy & is able to break both records for the simple fact that the more coverage going to Bonds the less goes to the White Sox. I don't want the White Sox put under a microscope this season. I'd prefer Bonds play that role & that weekly ESPN TV show he's negotiating right now would certainly supplant that idea.

Other Bonds articles:
http://www.insidebayarea.com/sports/ci_3531077
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060221/1012199.asp
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/02/20/SPG9THBNV91.DTL