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MUScholar21
02-17-2006, 11:23 AM
Just heard on ESPN1000 that Harold Baines will be the new first base coach, and Tim Raines is moving to be the bench coach for this year.

Anyone think Harold will maintain Raines' sprint to first every inning?

Flight #24
02-17-2006, 11:27 AM
Just heard on ESPN1000 that Harold Baines will be the new first base coach, and Tim Raines is moving to be the bench coach for this year.

Anyone think Harold will maintain Raines' sprint to first every inning?

I'm more concerned that he'll fall over during his naps out there! Or maybe this is Ozzie's way of keeping him awake?

It does seem odd in that you'd expect a great baserunner like Raines to be a better base coach (especially 1B where you steal from) than a slugger like Baines.

Honestly, if such a switch was made, I would have expected Cora to go to the bench and Baines to 3B.

Hitmen77
02-17-2006, 11:28 AM
Just heard on ESPN1000 that Harold Baines will be the new first base coach, and Tim Raines is moving to be the bench coach for this year.

Anyone think Harold will maintain Raines' sprint to first every inning?

If this is true, I'm puzzled by this since Raines is the one who was an elite baserunner. :?:

itsnotrequired
02-17-2006, 11:29 AM
It does seem odd in that you'd expect a great baserunner like Raines to be a better base coach (especially 1B where you steal from) than a slugger like Baines.

Baines is better equipped to handle a runner's batting pads and armor.

Seriously, this does seem like an odd move.

patbooyah
02-17-2006, 11:30 AM
Honestly, if such a switch was made, I would have expected Cora to go to the bench and Baines to 3B.

sincerely. cora was the coach i "disagreed" with more often last year. he had some pretty bad calls.

but i have nothing but faith in ozzie.

voodoochile
02-17-2006, 11:32 AM
If this is true, I'm puzzled by this since Raines is the one who was an elite baserunner. :?:

He also probably is a better tactician than Haaarold for that exact reason. I am sure Raines will maintain his duties as base stealing coach.

pythons007
02-17-2006, 11:32 AM
I'm more concerned that he'll fall over during his naps out there! Or maybe this is Ozzie's way of keeping him awake?

It does seem odd in that you'd expect a great baserunner like Raines to be a better base coach (especially 1B where you steal from) than a slugger like Baines.

Honestly, if such a switch was made, I would have expected Cora to go to the bench and Baines to 3B.

Hell yeah, Cora would send just about anyone home. I think he sent Konerko home (who ususally is caring a train behind him) when he was on first and someone hit a double. Cora just wasn't very good.

Iwritecode
02-17-2006, 11:35 AM
How many guys are going to get picked off this year because they can't hear Harold say "Back!"?

Hangar18
02-17-2006, 11:35 AM
sincerely. cora was the coach i "disagreed" with more often last year. he had some pretty bad calls.




Whew you aint kidding. Remember him waving Paul home from 1st late innnings at Petco last year?

NoNeckEra
02-17-2006, 11:38 AM
Seems to me like a definite demotion for Harold and promotion for Rock.

patbooyah
02-17-2006, 11:44 AM
Whew you aint kidding. Remember him waving Paul home from 1st late innnings at Petco last year?

kind of... :gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

VivaOzzie
02-17-2006, 11:46 AM
How many guys are going to get picked off this year because they can't hear Harold say "Back!"?

Don't know if I agree with this move. I remember Rock was amazing at calling "back" when he knew the pitcher was coming to first. I think it was in the World Series, against Petitte, when Rock would call "back" so incredibly early, and Petitte has one of the better moves in the game.

MisterB
02-17-2006, 11:48 AM
Just two general observations:

1) There are few jobs in sports that I would NOT want to have, but the top 2 are third base coach and football placekicker, and for the same reason. If you do your job well, no one cares and on those occasions you screw up (even if they rarely happen), everyone swears up and down you're piece of ****.

2) I don't understand why just because Harold Baines is a man of few words that people assume he's asleep on the bench or has somehow not absorbed any tactical knowledge of the game he's been involved with professionally for almost 30 years.

[/rant]

Thread hijack over. Thank You for your patience. :smile:

Dan Mega
02-17-2006, 11:50 AM
In Ozzie We Trust.

TDog
02-17-2006, 11:51 AM
The year Walt "No-Neck" Williams spent as first base coach, he came under fire for not arguing close plays. It wasn't in his character. Harold is a good baseball man, but he's also a good man who probably won't find it in his character to argue most close calls at first base.

As for the bench coach, as Harold Baines said of working in that capacity for Guillen, it's a matter of being there to answer questions from your manager than pointing things out. "Nobody tells Ozzie anything."

patbooyah
02-17-2006, 11:54 AM
did anyone else hear this, by the way?

NonetheLoaiza
02-17-2006, 11:54 AM
Raines going to the bench shouldn't really affect the basepaths too much. Rock will still deal with teaching the players about stealing, and showing them some of the nuances. This announcement seems to have come out of nowhere though, and wonder why it's being made. Good luck to Rock and Baines both, though.

Flight #24
02-17-2006, 12:11 PM
Raines going to the bench shouldn't really affect the basepaths too much. Rock will still deal with teaching the players about stealing, and showing them some of the nuances. This announcement seems to have come out of nowhere though, and wonder why it's being made. Good luck to Rock and Baines both, though.

To me it's more about the value of having that "expert" out there watching the game. Rock's used to picking up pitcher's motions, timing, etc from 1B. Seems like you'd get a lot more use out of that experience by having him basically do the same thing (from the 1B coaches box) and communicate it to the runner than by sitting on the bench.

But you never know, and as someone said - "In Ozzie We Trust".

daveeym
02-17-2006, 12:26 PM
He also probably is a better tactician than Haaarold for that exact reason. I am sure Raines will maintain his duties as base stealing coach. That's exactly what I was thinking. Ozzie wants a little more input from his bench coach.

lumpyspun
02-17-2006, 12:28 PM
Maybe this is a way of getting Harold some more notoriety for his hall of fame push!

I wonder if Harold will race the infielders throwing to first base every inning like rock used to...ha.

Iwritecode
02-17-2006, 12:29 PM
Don't know if I agree with this move. I remember Rock was amazing at calling "back" when he knew the pitcher was coming to first. I think it was in the World Series, against Petitte, when Rock would call "back" so incredibly early, and Petitte has one of the better moves in the game.

Just watch his foot when he picks his right leg up. If it's behind his left leg, he's coming to first (or balking). If it's even or in front of his left leg, he's going home.

Jerko
02-17-2006, 12:32 PM
:ozzie

I assign the ****in coaches. :angry:

RedHeadPaleHoser
02-17-2006, 12:32 PM
Maybe this gives Raines a way to look at opposing pitchers better and signal to Baines as to how to manage the runner. It seems weird, but Harold has been playing this game for some time. Again, trust in Ozzie...

NoNeckEra
02-17-2006, 12:33 PM
Just watch his foot when he picks his right leg up. If it's behind his left leg, he's coming to first (or balking). If it's even or in front of his left leg, he's going home.
You not only write code, you interpret code too!:D:

Realist
02-17-2006, 12:45 PM
sincerely. cora was the coach i "disagreed" with more often last year. he had some pretty bad calls.

but i have nothing but faith in ozzie.

At game 2 against the Angels, I didn't speak from the time Cora sent Rowand home with no outs only to get gunned down until Crede drove that pitch into the corner to end the game. Cora had me mad enough to eat books. That was the first time ever in my life I was in a state of silent rage. Weird feeling.

patbooyah
02-17-2006, 12:49 PM
At game 2 against the Angels, I didn't speak from the time Cora sent Rowand home with no outs only to get gunned down until Crede drove that pitch into the corner to end the game. Cora had me mad enough to eat books. That was the first time ever in my life I was in a state of silent rage. Weird feeling.

if you were going to rate his decisions, that would be one of his lower ratings, yes. :cool:

MUScholar21
02-17-2006, 01:06 PM
I know how a lot of people feel about things like sending Pauly and AJ home just to get smoked, but there thought behind it. Ozzie said very early in the winter of 04 that they were going to send runners home as often as possible to keep opponents on their heels and force mistakes; the thinking being that by turning the pressure up and making outfielders defend home plate they take their focus off just getting to the ball or try to do too much. That said, there is a fine line between putting pressure on and just giving up outs, that I think Joey hasn't gotten down just yet. Just remember though, we don't have a lot of place to criticize Ozzie on this stuff.

Hitmen77
02-17-2006, 01:18 PM
At game 2 against the Angels, I didn't speak from the time Cora sent Rowand home with no outs only to get gunned down until Crede drove that pitch into the corner to end the game. Cora had me mad enough to eat books. That was the first time ever in my life I was in a state of silent rage. Weird feeling.

Yes, I wasn't too happy with that game 2 call either. But, I got flamed by the mods here for bringing it up at the time, so I better watch what I say. :duck:

Man Soo Lee
02-17-2006, 02:16 PM
Just watch his foot when he picks his right leg up. If it's behind his left leg, he's coming to first (or balking). If it's even or in front of his left leg, he's going home.
That's backward. If the front foot goes behind the mound leg and breaks the rubber, the pitcher has to go home. See 8.05(a) (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/rule8.shtml).

He can go either way if the right foot stays in front, as long as he clearly steps toward first on a pickoff attempt.

VivaOzzie
02-17-2006, 02:29 PM
That's backward. If the front foot goes behind the mound leg and breaks the rubber, the pitcher has to go home. See 8.05(a) (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/rule8.shtml).

He can go either way if the right foot stays in front, as long as he clearly steps toward first on a pickoff attempt.

And I think Rock can notice the pickoff move earlier than most. I'm sure there's a method to this madness though...

Iwritecode
02-17-2006, 02:34 PM
That's backward. If the front foot goes behind the mound leg and breaks the rubber, the pitcher has to go home. See 8.05(a) (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/rule8.shtml).

He can go either way if the right foot stays in front, as long as he clearly steps toward first on a pickoff attempt.

I was close... :(:

bluestar
02-17-2006, 03:41 PM
Pettite's pickoff move is a balk in some cases (many more than he gets called for) and borderline in almost every case; he just gets away with it.

Viva Medias B's
02-17-2006, 03:47 PM
Ozzie just said that he feels Raines would be more helpful to the players in the dugout than in the first base coaching box.

EastCoastSoxFan
02-17-2006, 03:50 PM
Just watch his foot when he picks his right leg up. If it's behind his left leg, he's coming to first (or balking). If it's even or in front of his left leg, he's going home.
The reason Pettitte (and Buehrle, for that matter) have such great pickoff moves is that they don't bring their right leg behind their left leg even when they're going home.
If Raines was calling Pettitte's pickoff move he must have picked up on something else...

TaylorStSox
02-17-2006, 03:56 PM
Pettite's pickoff move is a balk in some cases (many more than he gets called for) and borderline in almost every case; he just gets away with it.

As does MB.

Fake Chet Lemon
02-17-2006, 04:00 PM
I think it's simply career development for Raines. I think: Raines wants to be a big league manager some day, he's made that known to Ozzie, and they are trying to help him out. Baines may not have that aspiration. This is the next step in career development for the Rock on that road. Baines being a nice guy is letting Rock have his spot for a year. When Rock moves on, Baines will be back as bench coach.

Dick Allen
02-17-2006, 06:05 PM
Are we sure this isn't just a case of mistaken identity? Such as in first letter of last name?

soxinem1
02-18-2006, 08:44 PM
Not hoping for any bad things to happen, but since October:

Big Frank was sent packing
John Rooney was sent packing
Ed Farmer was made play by play guy
The second BP lefty may be a minor league retread cut by the cubs in ST last year
Raines (808 career SB's and a good pitching move radar) moved off first in favor of Baines (34 career SB and quiet as a mouse)

Is it just me, or are we noticing some strange transpirings here?..........