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View Full Version : crime rates wrigley vs comiskey


irish rover
01-08-2002, 05:59 PM
once again I was confronted by a mentally challenged cub fan who criticized me for moving down to Bridgeport from the North Side, because it is soooo dangerous. So I did some research thinking maybe I'm wrong(I wish Iknew how to do the purple font thing)

any way from Dec 19-Jan 01 there were 47 crimes within 1/2 mile of Wrigley, 20 of which were within a 1/4 mile. These included 3 batteries, 1 child sexual abuse, 1 robbery,1 crim sexual assualt, 1 sex offence(indecent exposure on the cta platform) 12 property crimes and 1 domestic. Within 1/2 mile of Comiskey there were 21 crimes of which only 1(assualt)was within 1/4 mile.

Yep he is right I've always wanted a child molestor for a neighbor, I like seeing guys expose themselves while I'm waiting for the train and my wife enjoys being groped by brute wearing frat boy that recks of lavoris at one of those wonderful neighborhood bars that one hears so much about and are so fun. Plus I could charge $50 to some yuppie f*** to park in my drive way

CerberusWG
01-08-2002, 06:32 PM
Yeah, Cubs fans are so stupid. They say that the Gangs in Bridgeport cause more crime, but fail to recognize getting wasted and forgetting what you've done doesn't mean you haven't committed a crime.

BTW Post 500!

Jerry_Manuel
01-08-2002, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by irish rover
(I wish I knew how to do the purple font thing)


When your typing a message look above the word "quote" it says "color".

HootieMcBoob
01-08-2002, 07:27 PM
Jerry -

How do you make it say "Originally posted by _______" before a quote? I've never been able to figure it out.
All I can do is this:

When your typing a message look above the word "quote" it says "color".

Thanks
-Hootie

Jerry_Manuel
01-08-2002, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by HootieMcBoob
Jerry -

How do you make it say "Originally posted by _______" before a quote? I've never been able to figure it out.
All I can do is this:


When your reading a thread you'll see this http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/images/quote.gif under every post just click it and your set. You should know how to do the colored font now since you know where the other quote button is.

doublem23
01-08-2002, 08:21 PM
Oh yeah, of course.... In 2000, I took the CTA Red Line to Comiskey like 30 times that season and I never, ever felt threatened.

Cheryl
01-08-2002, 09:38 PM
I used to work at IIT and walk from work west on 35th Street to the ballpark all the time. I never felt threatened either. OTOH, being in the vicinity of the Other Place has often made me make sure my purse was always secure.

DrCrawdad
01-08-2002, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by irish rover
once again I was confronted by a mentally challenged cub fan

"Mentally challenged cub fan"? Isn't that redundant?

Thanks for those interesting crime statistics. The stats back up what I remember hearing a few years ago back when that loud mouth radio host got beat up. I've been going to Comiskey my whole life and I've never had trouble, nor felt threatened.

Like you, I've had numerous futile conversations with mindless Cubbie fans about Comiskey's being dangerous. Often it's just based on their misperception, not facts. Comiskey is derided as being surrounded by hostile whites and then sometimes they say it's a dangerous neighborhood because of the projects. By contrast, Wrigley is in an area teaming with businesses (mainly bars) and the homes appear nice. So Wrigley is safe, in their closed minds. Many times though these Cubbie fans are just hurling, this time an insult. Facts, logic and reasoning don't matter then.

I'll never forget the conversation I had with this one guy who is supposedly intelligent. He told me that he'd won't take his kids to Comiskey "'cos it's so dangerous". This guy also said, "you know no one brings kids to Sox games. I asked him, "Have you ever been to Comiskey?" No, he answered. Then I asked, "Do you watch Sox games on TV?" No. So what did he base his opinion on? He didn't have an answer.

But here's the funny part to me about this situation, the supposedly intelligent guy in question is also a born-again-Christian. Part of his reasoning is that Comiskey is not a healthy atmosphere for his "saved kids". So I asked him about the atmosphere at and around Wrigley - the many bars, the large gay community around Wrigley (Boys town with Gaymart & The Manhole, etc.), is the Wrigley atmosphere ok for your children? Yeah, he brings his kids there for quite a few games per year.

It's amusing to me that when having these Comiskey vs. Wrigley arguments that Cubbie fans can attack Comiskey with class and racial based arguments but when the homosexual nature of Wrigleyville is brought up well they get very upset. Racial and class based put downs are ok, but a gay put down is just not tolerated. Maybe it's hitting too close to home.

Huisj
01-08-2002, 11:54 PM
Man, that dude is messed up. I'm also a Christian, and his reasoning for not bringing people to a Sox game doesn't make any sense at all (especially if he's relating it to a moral conviction). Nobody should be afraid to go to Sox games at all, it's just not a scary place. If this guy is really scared of the neighborhood, and says his faith keeps him from taking his kids near it, he's a) kidding himself about the area, and b) not quite understanding what a relationship with Christ means. Christianity doesn't mean becoming a hermit and running away from stuff.

on a lighter note, how's this

GO SOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!

irish rover
01-09-2002, 07:57 AM
thing is most have never been to the area. There are plenty of nice looking homes for example those over by lot G. Also, logic would dictate that since the mayors mother still lives a couple blocks away he is not going to let the area go bad. As far as the gay thing(now I don't want to get into gay bashing here) but I read an article one time that the cubs are going to market thier team to gays I'll try and find it

very good point about class and race arguments

irish rover
01-09-2002, 08:07 AM
here is an article on cubs marketing in the gay community

http://www.outsports.com/columns/cubsads.htm

`It was an easy no-brainer,'' said Annie Kleiser, manager of special events and
entertainment for the Cubs, adding that Wrigley Field is ``smack dab in the middle of the
gay neighborhood.''

cheeses_h_rice
01-09-2002, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad

But here's the funny part to me about this situation, the supposedly intelligent guy in question is also a born-again-Christian. Part of his reasoning is that Comiskey is not a healthy atmosphere for his "saved kids."

In other words, the guy is a gutless, cowardly ***** who goes by lazy, inaccurate stereotypes in his daily judgments on people. He's also probably a closet racist.

Nice. How very Xtian of him...

mrwag
01-09-2002, 12:00 PM
One thing that has amazed me about the Comiskey area is the transformation that has taken place on the neighborhood. From my first Sox game (last year at old Comiskey) to present day, you almost would have to look twice to make sure you were really in the same place. Now, if we can just clean up the low-rise projects.

But, regarding WrigleyVille - I felt nervous there at the only Cub game I attended. Too many people in a small area. Prime place for pick-pocketers. The only thing you have to worry about at Comiskey is someone trying to wash your windshields.

DrCrawdad
01-09-2002, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by irish rover any way from Dec 19-Jan 01 there were 47 crimes within 1/2 mile of Wrigley, 20 of which were within a 1/4 mile. These included 3 batteries, 1 child sexual abuse, 1 robbery,1 crim sexual assualt, 1 sex offence(indecent exposure on the cta platform) 12 property crimes and 1 domestic. Within 1/2 mile of Comiskey there were 21 crimes of which only 1(assualt)was within 1/4 mile.
[/B]

Where did you get these crime stats from?

irish rover
01-09-2002, 01:04 PM
here

http://12.17.79.6/ctznicam/ctznicam.asp

If that doesn't work go to

www.cityofchicago.org

there is a link there, crime database. I'm currently in an argument with a cub fan at the mlb board. He goes, "give me the site and I can spin those stats to prove the opposite" hahahaha sorry buddy can't spin the stats for they do not lie

DrCrawdad
01-09-2002, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by irish rover
thing is most have never been to the area. There are plenty of nice looking homes for example those over by lot G. Also, logic would dictate that since the mayors mother still lives a couple blocks away he is not going to let the area go bad.

You're right. Like the guy I mentioned, his first name is Aaron BTW. Aaron had never been to Comiskey & said that he didn't watch Sox games.

The neighborhoods north and west of Comiskey are actually quite nice. My family is from 25th Place. I enjoy having a slice of pizza at Donnie's and a cool beverage at one of the neighborhood taverns before and after games.

In my experience many people immediately assume that everything on the Southside is dark & dangerous. Then too when you drive by Comiskey the Robert Taylor Homes loom large on people's opinion. However as you indicated from the crime stats the immediate vicinity of Comiskey is actually safer than Wrigley.

A couple of experiences:

My sister was with a group of her friends across the street from Wrigley and a guy in her group got his head smashed by a gang of skinheads. Apparently they thought the guy was a rival skinhead.

Ask Sun-Times columnist Mary Mitchell what she thinks of Wrigley. Funny that the Trib made no mention of the Mary Mitchell incident.

As far as the gay thing(now I don't want to get into gay bashing here) but I read an article one time that the cubs are going to market thier team to gays I'll try and find it. Very good point about class and race arguments.

Gay bashing is not my point either. However if in an argument a Cubbie fan brings up 'the dangerous Comiskey neighborhood' then I feel, in the context of that argument, that it's then ok to bring up Wrigleyville's large gay population. That's a fact, and Cubbie personnel apparently concur from the quote you provided.

If bringing up Wrigleyville's gay population is offensive then people should be just as offended when they hear comments about Comiskey being in a dangerous neighborhood (oftentimes dangerous being a code word for black or at times blue-collar white).

Point of fact: Wrigley is closer to Boystown than Comiskey is to the Robert Taylor Homes.

In the end, arguing Wrigley vs. Comiskey is fruitless with many Cubbie fans. I've had these arguments too many times in my lifetime to know that you usually get nowhere. In my experience I've enjoyed the few games that I've been to at Wrigley - especially when I've been there for Sox games 1999-2001. I don't usually argue against Wrigley so much as argue for the White Sox.

I love the White Sox.

*****
"It is not enough for me to win. My enemies must lose." - David Merrick

voodoochile
01-09-2002, 02:25 PM
One quick Point...

Not surprising that the stats mentioned are the way they are. Within a 1/4 mile of Comiskey there isn't anything but parking lot and the Dan Ryan (well mostly). The population concentration is much lower than in the immediate area surrounding Wrigley. Add in the large number of bars in the Wrigley vacinity and it isn't hard to see why the numbers are skewed in our direction...

My Mom just retired from the data processing wing of the CPD. She probably worked on those stats at one time or another in her career...

irish rover
01-09-2002, 02:47 PM
very good points voodoo

I just recently bought a home a couple blocks from the park. Just trying to prove the area around Comiskey is not as dangerous as people think. If one increase the distance from Comiskey and Wrigley up to 1 mile there is still more crime around Wrigley.

Foulke You
01-09-2002, 02:59 PM
I feel much more unsafe in the Wrigleyville area than by Comiskey. I too ride the red line to Comiskey 25 times a year and have never EVER once felt threatened or unsafe in that area. I agree that there is just too much people that clutter a small grid of streets in the Wrigleyville area. Combine this with the heavy drinking that happens in the Park and in the bars and that is a recipe for problems. In my trips to Comiskey, most of the people on the Red line "L" on the south side are very friendly and only too happy to talk some White Sox baseball with you until the Sox-35th stop. I've encountered more goofballs and drunken fools around the Clark/Division, Lawrence (Especially after an Aragon concert), and Addison (all north side stops) than I ever encountered at Sox-35th, Cermak-Chinatown, or Harrison (all south side stops). Do you want to know when the Red line trip to Comiskey is at it's most sour? You guessed it! The crosstown series. When the frat boys head south, that is when the problems begin. Although I still maintain that in order to fully appreciate the culture of the rivalry one must ride the Red Line to the crosstown series. Anyway, the Bridgeport area is also quite safe. There is a friggin' police station 2 blocks from Comiskey Park. The area around Grandstands (Sox merchandise store) at 35th & Wallace is just as safe as going to one of the Cub memorabilia stores around Wrigley. It's that stigma of the "bad neighborhood" by Comiskey that the Sox haven't been able to shake since the problems in the late '60s, early 70's.

irish rover
01-09-2002, 03:08 PM
I forgot that hizzoner's mother still lives a couple blocks away too. No way does he let the area go bad also the new police head quarters is on 35th and Michigan

DrCrawdad
01-09-2002, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by irish rover
I forgot that hizzoner's mother still lives a couple blocks away too. No way does he let the area go bad also the new police head quarters is on 35th and Michigan

IIRC didn't Daley's mother die a little while ago?

yyz
01-09-2002, 05:38 PM
I'm not sure where you would find the numbers to do this, but looking at the absolute numbers without taking into consideration the population density doesn't necessarily settle things.

My sense is that, particularly now that the RT homes are being torn down, the population density surrounding Wrigley is much greater, so you'd expect more crimes.

(Don't get me wrong, I used to live at Belmont and Clark, and there were all sorts of degenerates, bums and dangerous characters lurking about, so I'm not saying Wrigleyville is particularly family-friendly or safe.)

CLR01
01-09-2002, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad


IIRC didn't Daley's mother die a little while ago?


I thought she just had a mild stroke or something along those lines.

Huisj
01-09-2002, 09:35 PM
Hey, don't you guys wish there was some way we could send this stuff in this discussion to some certain Chicago sportswriters and radio personalities? Not that it would change their opinions or anything . . .

Daver
01-09-2002, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by Huisj
Hey, don't you guys wish there was some way we could send this stuff in this discussion to some certain Chicago sportswriters and radio personalities? Not that it would change their opinions or anything . . .

I know for a fact that Dave Wills from AM 1000 reads this board.

doublem23
01-09-2002, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by daver
I know for a fact that Dave Wills from AM 1000 reads this board.

Yeah, I've heard him mention us over the air from time to time... Very cool!

doublem23
01-09-2002, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by Huisj
Hey, don't you guys wish there was some way we could send this stuff in this discussion to some certain Chicago sportswriters and radio personalities? Not that it would change their opinions or anything . . .

:moron
You're just Smut Sox fans. Your opinion doesn't matter to me. I write for the Sun-Times!

DrCrawdad
01-09-2002, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by yyz
I'm not sure where you would find the numbers to do this, but looking at the absolute numbers without taking into consideration the population density doesn't necessarily settle things.

My sense is that, particularly now that the RT homes are being torn down, the population density surrounding Wrigley is much greater, so you'd expect more crimes.


Population density no doubt is one reason for the difference, but I don't see where that matters. Where are you more likely to be a victim of crime? Around Comiskey? Or around Wrigley? The stats say that more crime occurs around Wrigley, for whatever the reason.

What is the difference in population density anway. No doubt it is less around CP, but around WF from what I've observed there are quite a few non-residential areas.

I remember all the media hoopla after the ESPN loudmouth got beat up after a Sox game. A few days later one of the papers, I believe it was the Sun-Times, had a tiny mention of the crime stats around the ball parks. It was something like 27 Wrigley to 3 Comiskey, at that time. Of course no one bothered with those stats when the headlines appeared, and only a couple of media personalities bothered to question & be skeptical about what really might have happened. On the other hand after Mary Mitchell reported that she was the subject of racial taunts outside of Wrigley well it nary got a mention and IF the media mentioned her at all the tone was skeptical of her claims.

I bet Jerry Krause would like to meet Jay Marrioti in Armour Park.

voodoochile
01-10-2002, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad


Population density no doubt is one reason for the difference, but I don't see where that matters. Where are you more likely to be a victim of crime? Around Comiskey? Or around Wrigley? The stats say that more crime occurs around Wrigley, for whatever the reason.

What is the difference in population density anway. No doubt it is less around CP, but around WF from what I've observed there are quite a few non-residential areas.

Sorry, you are wrong on this one. Population density on the Northside is much higher than on the south side. That is because of all of the high rises up and down LSD/Sheridan road (which Wrigley is about a half mile from). Comiskey is located right next to the Dan Ryan which significantly decreases it's population density for half a mile in each direction (as it is about 1/8 mile wide and NO ONE lives there) (The parking lots don't help either). Also, there are much less high rises as you move away from the lake front (I believe Comiskey is about 1.5 miles from the lake). Also as you go west from Wrigley, you have nothing but residential neighborhood for miles and miles and miles (even Addison itself is primarily residential and many of the businesses along Clark have apartments upstairs).

The numbers are only significant when calculated in terms of per capita crime rates. More people will clearly mean more crime almost anywhere you go. Since we don't have those at our disposal, the numbers don't mean a heck of a lot, IMO (I hate bad statistics used to defend something that IMO doesn't need to be defended).

I'm not trying to defend Wrigleyville, and I too have never had a problem around Comiskey (nor around Wrigley for that matter). No neighborhood in Chicago (or any large city) is entirely safe. You always need to be aware of your surroundings and try to stay in lighted areas and even that is no guarantee as idiots will be idiots no matter what...

DrCrawdad
01-10-2002, 01:12 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Sorry, you are wrong on this one. Population density on the Northside is much higher than on the south side.

I do understand that the NS is more dense, densely populated. However all I meant was that right around WF there is a significant number of non-residential buildings. I know there is a large number of multi-family dwellings. Of course as they knock down the Robert Taylor Homes, well there goes a large portion of population from nearby CP.

The numbers are only significant when calculated in terms of per capita crime rates. More people will clearly mean more crime almost anywhere you go. Since we don't have those at our disposal, the numbers don't mean a heck of a lot, IMO (I hate bad statistics used to defend something that IMO doesn't need to be defended).

I understand the difference, but the point is that when a person says that CP is dangerous they are usually uninformed as to the number of crimes that actually occur around each ballpark. If you asked I'd bet that a large number of people assume that more crime takes place around CP.

The point is that CP is not dangerous, as you and I understand, at least not anymore dangerous than WF.

I'm not trying to defend Wrigleyville, and I too have never had a problem around Comiskey (nor around Wrigley for that matter). No neighborhood in Chicago (or any large city) is entirely safe. You always need to be aware of your surroundings and try to stay in lighted areas and even that is no guarantee as idiots will be idiots no matter what...

I've never had trouble around WF either (aside from being yelled at by drunken Cubbie fans for being a Sox fan). And I completely agree with you in this last quote.
CP and WF being in a large city both are relatively safe - if you use your head and are not looking for trouble. And that I think is exactly the point.

I enjoy baseball. I look forward to baseball getting underway. I look forward to getting to games at safe Comiskey Park.

irish rover
01-10-2002, 09:14 AM
I live just a couple blocks from CP and I also am in law enforcement, so I do know something about the area and the stats which are not bad. Granted there is more people which equals more crime on the North Side, not sure that makes the area around Comiskey more dangerous. Comiskey doesn't have what is condusive to crime. When people go to Comiskey or Wrigley they don't go any where but within a 1/2 to 1/4 mile of the parks and those stats accurately show what goes on within those areas. Thus when people go to Comiskey they will be relatively safe and when one goes to WF they have a better chance of being involved in a crime becasue the area is more condusive to crime.