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DrCrawdad
02-13-2006, 08:33 AM
(http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-sox13.html)

(http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-sox13.html)Canada or bust for Sox' Borchard? (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/)


February 13, 2006
BY JOE COWLEY Staff Reporter

Joe Borchard has spent the last three years waiting patiently for a vacancy in the White Sox' outfield.


Now that the Sox finally have one, however, the once highly touted prospect is not only seeking a change of venue, but also contemplating a career change.


It does seem that the Sox have been talking as though Joe didn't even exist any longer. I hope Joe gets a fair shot at getting the Rowand vacancy or at least a spot on the bench.

If Joe does indeed head to the CFL, the Francophones will probably like to see Borchard on the back of a jersey.

Bobby Thigpen
02-13-2006, 08:54 AM
Bye Joe.

Don't let the door hit ya, where the good Lord split ya.

veeter
02-13-2006, 08:57 AM
I hope he gives it one last try this spring. What little he played last year, I thought he really shortened his stroke. He could be as good or better than Timo off the bench. Plus, he's a stud fielder.

TomBradley72
02-13-2006, 09:10 AM
27 years old, .260 hitter at AAA with a boat load of strike outs ....Joe...there's a reason KW couldn't trade you to anyone. When you hit about .180 over 60+ games in 2004...it doesn't matter "how well you hit the ball"...you hit under .200 for over 1/3rd of a major league season. Best of luck in pursuing your "Grey Cup" dream.

MisterB
02-13-2006, 10:38 AM
Canada or bust for Sox' Borchard? (http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-sox13.html)


February 13, 2006
BY JOE COWLEY Staff Reporter

Joe Borchard has spent the last three years waiting patiently for a vacancy in the White Sox' outfield.


Now that the Sox finally have one, however, the once highly touted prospect is not only seeking a change of venue, but also contemplating a career change.

Fixed link.

PaulDrake
02-13-2006, 10:41 AM
I wish Borchard good luck in pursuit of his CFL dreams. It's been apparent for quite some time that he isn't even close to being a Major League baseball player.

Ol' No. 2
02-13-2006, 10:43 AM
If he doesn't make the Sox roster, there's a better than even chance some team will take a chance on him. He'll get traded before the end of ST.

TaylorStSox
02-13-2006, 10:49 AM
It's my understanding that he was never a very good QB. Is this true?

I wish him the best of luck. He'd be valuable off our bench, but he has to do what's best for him and his career.

A. Cavatica
02-13-2006, 10:49 AM
We should have a contest to give him a good French nickname..."le baton aux grands trous", perhaps?

lostletters
02-13-2006, 11:09 AM
I hope he gives it one last try this spring. What little he played last year, I thought he really shortened his stroke. He could be as good or better than Timo off the bench. Plus, he's a stud fielder.

He is FAR from a good fielder. He was a joke in the outfield in 2004. He has very little range out there. It is like calling Jose Valentine a good fielder. The sox overpaid for the guy. Goodbye Joe.

TaylorStSox
02-13-2006, 11:12 AM
He is FAR from a good fielder. He was a joke in the outfield in 2004. He has very little range out there. It is like calling Jose Valentine a good fielder. The sox overpaid for the guy. Goodbye Joe.

If LTP's not a good fielder, who is? He's got average range. He gets good jumps and he has a + arm. He's probably not an everyday CF, but he's a + RF.

Dick Allen
02-13-2006, 11:37 AM
Meanwhile, I hope he's enjoying his $5.3 million.

Tekijawa
02-13-2006, 11:40 AM
Meanwhile, I hope he's enjoying his $5.3 million.

That's 6.36 Million Canadian!

danjames
02-13-2006, 12:15 PM
When did Cowley start writing for the Sun-Times? Huh.

chaerulez
02-13-2006, 12:16 PM
Borchard is not a good fielder. Maybe he has the arm, but he certainly doesn't have the range. Anyways who cares about his fielding his strength was suppose to be his power. Which he does seem to have a lot of, but he can't seem to hit over .200 so until he can first learn how to do that, nothing else really matters at this point.

munchman33
02-13-2006, 12:18 PM
It's my understanding that he was never a very good QB. Is this true?


He'd definately have been a first rounder. That's why we had to give him that huge bonus.

TaylorStSox
02-13-2006, 12:21 PM
He'd definately have been a first rounder. That's why we had to give him that huge bonus.

I see. I don't really follow college football, or the pro's for that matter. I thought I'd read somewhere that he didn't start very many games in his Stanford career. Maybe I'm confusing him with Henson, Fields or Helton though.

eriqjaffe
02-13-2006, 12:35 PM
It's my understanding that he was never a very good QB. Is this true?...it's all relative - it's the CFL. Henry Burris posted a QB rating of 100.07 for Calgary in '05, and I don't think anybody around here needs to be reminded of his tenure with the Bears.

Nellie_Fox
02-13-2006, 12:46 PM
It is like calling Jose Valentine a good fielder.Who?:?:

ChiSoxGirl
02-13-2006, 12:50 PM
He'd definately have been a first rounder. That's why we had to give him that huge bonus.

You talk about the biggest waste of a $5 million bonus... sheesh! :rolleyes:

skottyj242
02-13-2006, 01:03 PM
You talk about the biggest waste of a $5 million bonus... sheesh! :rolleyes:

Make that $ 5.3 million. :smile:

Tekijawa
02-13-2006, 01:10 PM
You talk about the biggest waste of a $5 million bonus... sheesh! :rolleyes:

I think HALF of Tim Thomas is a bigger waste of $5 Million...

ondafarm
02-13-2006, 01:13 PM
He is FAR from a good fielder. He was a joke in the outfield in 2004. He has very little range out there. . .

I'm curious as to what your criteria for a good fielder is.

I saw him play right field in Charlotte and he was a very good fielder there.

As for his range, he's got very deceptive range, about like Dave Winfield. Winfield had big long strides and covered more ground than most outfielders, but he never looked fast.

soxfan1965
02-13-2006, 01:20 PM
For Borchard's sake he should go while he has the chance, what does he have to lose? If he fails up there, at least that's better than having never tried and regret the rest of his life, wondering what he could have done with his football talent. A Grey Cup won that you contributed toward is better than a World Series Ring where you did nothing. I think he will do well, and follow the string of successful Stanford quarterbacks like Plunkett, Elway and Brodie. I hope they show the games he starts on US TV. Maybe he'll end up in the NFL 3rd string for the Bears late in the season some day , with the way guys get injured. You never know, look at Samkon Gado, who didn't even start for his college team (Liberty) and the next year ends up starting with the Packers.

Lip Man 1
02-13-2006, 01:23 PM
Go Joe, and don't let the door hit you in the rear end on the way out.

No big loss.

Lip

Man Soo Lee
02-13-2006, 01:29 PM
I see. I don't really follow college football, or the pro's for that matter. I thought I'd read somewhere that he didn't start very many games in his Stanford career.
Borchard only started one game at Stanford (http://gostanford.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/borchard_joe00.html), but he was likely to be the starter in 2000 with two years of eligibility left.

He was an intriguing prospect because of his size, arm, and mobility, but he wasn't guaranteed to be an early NFL draft pick yet.

SoLongFrank
02-13-2006, 01:38 PM
suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-sox13.html
It might just be the most humbling article I've ever read about Borchy. He does leave some room for encouragement. He did have a horrible start & did end up with 29 HR. He did make the best of his ab's when called up. Say what you want about him but he is a SH with power. The WC White Sox could use that this year. I hope he has a great spring & makes the 25 man roster. even if it means breaking with 11 pitchers. If he doesn't make the cut then I think he can earn more in the CFL than he can with another ML team.

Ol' No. 2
02-13-2006, 02:18 PM
Who?:?:He was on the team with Ray Duram. Remember?

KRS1
02-13-2006, 02:42 PM
He was on the team with Ray Duram. Remember?


No, but I do remember him playing with Ray Durham.:tongue:

Ol' No. 2
02-13-2006, 02:45 PM
No, but I do remember him playing with Ray Durham.:tongue:Who? Jose Valentine? Never happened.:cool:

SoxFan76
02-13-2006, 03:06 PM
Who? Jose Valentine? Never happened.:cool:

Same team as John Garland, Mark Burley, and Aaron Rowland.

Captian Ron
02-13-2006, 03:09 PM
Bye Joe!! Don't let the door hit you in your arse!!:D:

Ol' No. 2
02-13-2006, 04:02 PM
Same team as John Garland, Mark Burley, and Aaron Rowland.And Ray Duram. That's what I said.:D:

Didn't we once come up with an All-Misspelled team?

mplsguy
02-13-2006, 04:15 PM
I'd like to see the guy make it with the Sox. Continue with the good feelings from the WC!!

Hey, why is Cowley at the Sun-Times?

Flight #24
02-13-2006, 05:42 PM
I'd like to see the guy make it with the Sox. Continue with the good feelings from the WC!!

Hey, why is Cowley at the Sun-Times?

Not sure, but I've noticed a lot of cross-pollination between the Southtown and the ST of late. The same Deluca & Cowley articles appearing in both.

MUsoxfan
02-13-2006, 05:50 PM
Not sure, but I've noticed a lot of cross-pollination between the Southtown and the ST of late. The same Deluca & Cowley articles appearing in both.

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DrCrawdad
02-13-2006, 06:49 PM
And Ray Duram. That's what I said.:D:

Didn't we once come up with an All-Misspelled team?

I started the discussion with Borcard instead of Borchard. Just after I posted I noticed the error. I couldn't figure out how to correct the discussion subject after it was started.

:redneck

Lip Man 1
02-13-2006, 07:15 PM
On Chicago Tribune Live this was being discussed. Mark Gonzales of the Tribune doesn't think Borchard will be going to the CFL because he hasn't played football since 1999.

He thinks he has a chance to make the team but has a better chance of potentially hooking on with another team in MLB.

Lip

DrCrawdad
02-13-2006, 08:20 PM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2006-02/21938078.jpg
Whatever happens to Borchard's baseball career, he'll always be able to say he met the President and toured the White House. Republican, Democrat or whatever your political persuasion, that's cool!

:bandance::supernana::bandance:

Foulke You
02-13-2006, 09:16 PM
I'm still leaning towards Brian Anderson to be my starting CF but I say the more competition at the position the better. Let Borchard, Owens, and Anderson all duke it out for the spot. Nothing wrong with a little healthy competition in Spring Training. Sounds like old Borchard has a chip on his shoulder and has something to proove. Why not see if he can show Ozzie something? Can't hurt.

Jurr
02-13-2006, 09:19 PM
When the Sox get more help out of one healthy month from Frank Thomas than they do from Joe Borchard's CAREER, I'd say so long, Joe. 5.3 million spent on a guy that did nothing but hit a long homer against Philly and helped out in a comeback against Detroit in September of 2004?????????

Banix12
02-13-2006, 11:07 PM
I hope he gives it one last try this spring. What little he played last year, I thought he really shortened his stroke. He could be as good or better than Timo off the bench. Plus, he's a stud fielder.

His stroke looked basically the same to me. I thought the only reason I think he looked better at the end of last season was because he was mostly playing in garbage time against pitchers of AAA quality. Once he got in there against a quality pitcher he was a relatively easy out.

The only thing Borchard has going for him going into spring training is that the other primary backup options, Grieve and probably Gload, are very poor OF.

Borchard upset about a spot not opening up for him is laughable. There was always a spot open for him if he had just shown any improvement at AAA. He got a prolonged chance to show what he could do in 2004. I have to think also that if he had not completely fallen apart in AAA in 2003 he would have gotten a callup when Rowand was sent down.

When did Cowley start writing for the Sun-Times? Huh.

Suntimes and the Southtown are owned by the same company, occasionally they write for the other paper. you often see suntimes articles in the southtown.

TDog
02-13-2006, 11:13 PM
Football is a sport that takes years off of players' lives. I would hate to see anyone pursue a football career.

Considering that Brian Anderson has a lower career batting average than Borchard, I'm surprised so many people are so excited at the thought of seeing in center next year.

Banix12
02-13-2006, 11:30 PM
Football is a sport that takes years off of players' lives. I would hate to see anyone pursue a football career.

Considering that Brian Anderson has a lower career batting average than Borchard, I'm surprised so many people are so excited at the thought of seeing in center next year.

You're comparing a half a season worth of AB's for borchard to a couple of weeks of AB's for Anderson. Also Anderson has so far been a much better AAA hitter than Borchard. Borchard is a .263 hitter at AAA in over 1700 AB's, basically an average hitter. Brian Anderson last year hit .295 at AAA. The last time Borchard hit that well was in AA in 2001.

Anderson appears to be getting better and he's only 23, Borchard has plateaued as an average AAA slugger for four years now.

beckett21
02-13-2006, 11:37 PM
You're comparing a half a season worth of AB's for borchard to a couple of weeks of AB's for Anderson. Also Anderson has so far been a much better AAA hitter than Borchard. Borchard is a .263 hitter at AAA in over 1700 AB's, basically an average hitter. Brian Anderson last year hit .295 at AAA. The last time Borchard hit that well was in AA in 2001.

Anderson appears to be getting better and he's only 23, Borchard has plateaued as an average AAA slugger for four years now.

What he said.

I wish Borchard a lot of luck. Seems like a pretty nice guy. Too bad it didn't work out for him, but I don't get the impression that it was due to lack of effort on his part.

As far as the signing bonus is concerned, I don't hold that against him either. You win some, you lose some. At least he gave me the impression that he was trying.

Banix12
02-13-2006, 11:40 PM
As far as the signing bonus is concerned, I don't hold that against him either. You win some, you lose some. At least he gave me the impression that he was trying.

Same here, certainly a lot of teams thought highly of him back when he was drafted. This was the only way to get him to concentrate entirely on Baseball. It just doesn't work out every time. I'm sure he's been trying really hard, the results just haven't been there.

Daver
02-13-2006, 11:46 PM
Players that can combine bat speed and eye to the point that they can produce 504 foot homeruns are not grown on trees. Players that have shown the ability to do it from both sides of the plate are even rarer.

I am not saying Borchard deserves any kind of break, but he does deserve a chance to compete for a position in ST.

TaylorStSox
02-13-2006, 11:47 PM
I don't see why people fault the player for taking a huge signing bonus. It's not like he pulled a Weaver. Nobody was complaining at the time. It just didn't work out.


OT: It's nice to see Crede kept the long hair. It's his secret weapon.

beckett21
02-13-2006, 11:50 PM
Players that can combine bat speed and eye to the point that they can produce 504 foot homeruns are not grown on trees. Players that have shown the ability to do it from both sides of the plate are even rarer.

I am not saying Borchard deserves any kind of break, but he does deserve a chance to compete for a position in ST.

He definitely deserves a chance to compete for a job. It's looking like now or never for him.

TaylorStSox
02-13-2006, 11:52 PM
He definitely deserves a chance to compete for a job. It's looking like now or never for him.

There's always going to be room for a switch hitter that will probably hit 30+ homers. He'll probably never hit over .250, but he'll find a place somewhere.

I remember the days when there was a healthy debate over Dunn vs. Borchard. It's too bad Borchard never showed the discipline that Dunn has. I wonder if that signing bonus hurt his development. Maybe he was always trying a little too hard.

SOX ADDICT '73
02-14-2006, 12:03 AM
I remember being very excited when the Sox signed both Jon Rauch and Joe Borchard after the 2000 Olympics and 2001 World Cup respectively. I thought we were set up for years to come. LOL!

Just goes to show you how deceptive prospects can be. Success at one or two levels is never guaranteed to translate to the big leagues.

Banix12
02-14-2006, 12:04 AM
Players that can combine bat speed and eye to the point that they can produce 504 foot homeruns are not grown on trees. Players that have shown the ability to do it from both sides of the plate are even rarer.

I am not saying Borchard deserves any kind of break, but he does deserve a chance to compete for a position in ST.

Certainly he should get a chance, I just wonder how well he has to do to make up for 4 years of AAA mediocrity.

It would be great if hitting homeruns were a distance contest.

There's always going to be room for a switch hitter that will probably hit 30+ homers. He'll probably never hit over .250, but he'll find a place somewhere.

I wonder, would he be a 30+ homer guy in the majors if given a full season? It's not like Charlotte is the toughest place to hit and he's pretty much been hanging around the high 20s.

TaylorStSox
02-14-2006, 12:13 AM
I wonder, would he be a 30+ homer guy in the majors if given a full season? It's not like Charlotte is the toughest place to hit and he's pretty much been hanging around the high 20s.
In a full season, sure. If he can stay healthy, which he never really did since his days in AA. I don't think it's too far fetched to think that he could go... .220/30 175K's.

TDog
02-14-2006, 12:19 AM
Anderson appears to be getting better and he's only 23, Borchard has plateaued as an average AAA slugger for four years now.

People were down on Borchard since his first callup.

That doesn't change the fact that people are disproportional excited about Brian Anderson who has a career ML average of .176 and hasn't hit .300 since singe A ball.

Banix12
02-14-2006, 12:55 AM
[LEFT]

People were down on Borchard since his first callup.

That doesn't change the fact that people are disproportional excited about Brian Anderson who has a career ML average of .176 and hasn't hit .300 since singe A ball.

And other than his 12 AB's last season and his 7 games at Rookie ball in 2000 Borchard has never hit over .300. And the .295 Anderson hit last season at AAA is a whole lot closer to .300 than Borchard ever hit in AAA.

I don't think most people were down on him that early. I think the point when a lot of people started questioning whether Borchard was a major league talent was his horrendous 2003 season in Charlotte. Then his incredibly poor 200 ABs in 2004 made more people get down on him. And for a lot of people his slow start to last season in AAA was the last straw.

The level of excitement should certainly be disproportional because there is frankly no reason to be excited about Borchard. The sox are looking at him to be at best a 4th OF. Anderson will likely be starting.

And as for Anderson's .176 Batting Average. You are still talking about only 34 major league at-bats. It's far too small a sample size to talk about how he will hit in the majors with any certainty. His minor league track record shows a progression that should be much better than .176.

Even though his sample size is a bit larger I could probably say the same thing about Borchard. I know his career average is .191 in around 300 ABs but I don't think that means he is just a career below .200 hitter. However, because he is no better than an average hitter in the minors I have no reason to believe he should be any better than an average hitter at best in the majors.

Tragg
02-14-2006, 01:10 AM
AT worst, he'll still be better than the left-handed bench bat we've endured for the last 2 years: Timo Perez.

I hope he has a good spring and summer.

csufsoxfan
02-14-2006, 01:19 AM
i would trade joe for timo any day

Banix12
02-14-2006, 01:27 AM
AT worst, he'll still be better than the left-handed bench bat we've endured for the last 2 years: Timo Perez.

I hope he has a good spring and summer.

At worst he is exactly the same player he was during his 2004 stint with the big club which last time I checked was worse than Timo Perez.

Before I say Borchard can't be worse than Timo Perez I have to actually see Joe play better than Timo.

Chisox003
02-14-2006, 01:32 AM
At worst he is exactly the same player he was during his 2004 stint with the big club which last time I checked was worse than Timo Perez.

Before I say Borchard can't be worse than Timo Perez I have to actually see Joe play better than Timo.
Definitely.

If the game came down to a single AB, I'd take Timo over Borchard anyday of the week and twice on Sundays.

But that's like asking to pick your own poison....But to his credit, Timo did seem to get the job done when we really needed it.

Those one handed "catches" he made in the OF though drove me nuts .... Every time he caught it, I would just be staring in amazement at how he didn't drop it :o:

Banix12
02-14-2006, 02:15 AM
Definitely.

If the game came down to a single AB, I'd take Timo over Borchard anyday of the week and twice on Sundays.

But that's like asking to pick your own poison....But to his credit, Timo did seem to get the job done when we really needed it.

Those one handed "catches" he made in the OF though drove me nuts .... Every time he caught it, I would just be staring in amazement at how he didn't drop it :o:

If the game came down to a single AB I would hope there was a third option on the bench.

I was never fond of the one handed catches too but he seemed to catch it a vast majority of the time.

I'm still not entirely positive the extra OF, if that is what the sox decide to take, is on the current roster going into spring training. Borchard can field fine but hasn't shown much with the bat. Gload can't really field well in the OF but he definitely has the best bat of the options. Grieve is not all that great in the field and his bat, while probably a bit better than Borchard's, is hardly anything special. Owens looks like he'll stick in the minors, get his playing time in, and lie in wait in case of an injury with the big club.

Can't really think of any reason why Grieve should be considered. If you are going to bring a guy onto the major league roster with a suspect glove it might as well be Gload. So i'm thinking it might be a fight to see which has improved more. Borchard's Bat or Gload's Glove. And if neither look improved they might check the waiver wire at the end of spring. Though this scenario assumes they are even considering Gload for an OF position, which I'm not sure they are.

Chisox003
02-14-2006, 02:29 AM
If the game came down to a single AB I would hope there was a third option on the bench.

I was never fond of the one handed catches too but he seemed to catch it a vast majority of the time.

I'm still not entirely positive the extra OF, if that is what the sox decide to take, is on the current roster going into spring training. Borchard can field fine but hasn't shown much with the bat. Gload can't really field well in the OF but he definitely has the best bat of the options. Grieve is not all that great in the field and his bat, while probably a bit better than Borchard's, is hardly anything special. Owens looks like he'll stick in the minors, get his playing time in, and lie in wait in case of an injury with the big club.

Can't really think of any reason why Grieve should be considered. If you are going to bring a guy onto the major league roster with a suspect glove it might as well be Gload. So i'm thinking it might be a fight to see which has improved more. Borchard's Bat or Gload's Glove. And if neither look improved they might check the waiver wire at the end of spring. Though this scenario assumes they are even considering Gload for an OF position, which I'm not sure they are.
Sounds like a possible scenario.

Gload can at least somewhat play both corner OF positions (I stress the somewhat), plus a pretty good 1B. Mackowiak can definitely play CF (plus the other OF positions), which makes him that much more valuable with our ? for the 4th OF spot.

But if you take Gload and his bat, you're sacraficing Borchard's speed. But at this point, with Pablo on the bench, that's all Borchard brings to the table and he becomes more expendable, so Gload might be the best option afterall.

Who knows, all our questions will *hopefully* be answered in ST, which starts in 3 days by the way :cool:

TDog
02-14-2006, 03:59 AM
And other than his 12 AB's last season and his 7 games at Rookie ball in 2000 Borchard has never hit over .300. And the .295 Anderson hit last season at AAA is a whole lot closer to .300 than Borchard ever hit in AAA....

I'm not saying Borchard is better than Anderson. I'm saying Anderson hasn't pr oved anything yet. It is odd that people are so negative about Borchard (and have been for years -- check the posts) while they are excited about what they believe Brian Anderson will do. I hope Anderson exceeds Aaron Rowand's play in center, really. But what they have is a rookie who struggled last year, except in his two-home-run game.

Shoeless Joe Jackson his less than .200 briefly when he broke in with Philadelphia, I know. Willie Mays went 0-for-26 at the start of his career. Harold Baines went 0-for-21. That doesn't mean everyone who went 0-for-20-something will have good careers.

Yes, indeed, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. They also laughed at Bozo.

Captian Ron
02-14-2006, 08:25 AM
i would trade joe for timo any day

I would trade Joe for a bag of golf balls and some tees!!!:bandance:

Tragg
02-14-2006, 09:44 AM
At worst he is exactly the same player he was during his 2004 stint with the big club which last time I checked was worse than Timo Perez.

Before I say Borchard can't be worse than Timo Perez I have to actually see Joe play better than Timo.
Borchard still out-homered Timo and out-walked him in 1/3 less at bats. If Borchard's batting .174, he isn't going to make it past May anyway. I'm willing to give the guy a chance, considering we put up with OBPs .285 and .266, and 2 year aggregate homers of 7, from Mr Clutch the last 2 years.

Banix12
02-14-2006, 05:40 PM
I'm not saying Borchard is better than Anderson. I'm saying Anderson hasn't pr oved anything yet. It is odd that people are so negative about Borchard (and have been for years -- check the posts) while they are excited about what they believe Brian Anderson will do. I hope Anderson exceeds Aaron Rowand's play in center, really. But what they have is a rookie who struggled last year, except in his two-home-run game.

Shoeless Joe Jackson his less than .200 briefly when he broke in with Philadelphia, I know. Willie Mays went 0-for-26 at the start of his career. Harold Baines went 0-for-21. That doesn't mean everyone who went 0-for-20-something will have good careers.

Yes, indeed, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. They also laughed at Bozo.

Some people have been negative on him since he has been drafted. There have always been naysayers. While certainly some people became negative on him since his first callup back in 2002, that is probably the minority. I still say 2003 in AAA and 2004 in the majors were the times when the vast majority of people started to think Borchard was mostly hype and not very good.

And it's in no way odd that people would be down on Borchard and positive about Anderson. Anderson has progressed through the minors and really doesn't have a ton to prove down there anymore because of his solid season last year at AAA. Anderson is a proven talent in the minors. Borchard has never really put together a good full season at the highest minor league level. He's always had slow starts and rough patches and tends to finish every year around the same statistical averages. Averages that can be only be described as mediocre.

If Borchard had put up put up good numbers in AAA, like a .295 average, then I would agree with you that it would be odd but seriously we are talking about a guy who has been around a .260 hitter in 4 years at AAA. Your original question was phrased as if we should be treating each player with similar accolades or distain because neither has done much in the MLB. That's simply not true because at other levels where they have played the same field, like AAA, Anderson seems to outperform him and is more deserving of praise and optimism.

And I'm in no way saying that because Borchard or Anderson had poor starts to their career that they will turn around to be great players. I'm saying that a small sample size like 34 ABs is nothing that a sensible person could use to make assumptions about the rest of a player's career.

Banix12
02-14-2006, 06:06 PM
Borchard still out-homered Timo and out-walked him in 1/3 less at bats. If Borchard's batting .174, he isn't going to make it past May anyway. I'm willing to give the guy a chance, considering we put up with OBPs .285 and .266, and 2 year aggregate homers of 7, from Mr Clutch the last 2 years.

As you and I have talked before, you should know I am hardly a Timo defender. I think he was relatively useless, especially last season. However I just don't think you can say with certainty that Borchard "can't be worse" than Timo because frankly he's been worse than Timo in all his MLB stints and Timo was a much better AAA hitter than Borchard when he was in the minors. Borchard would have to show a nearly .030 improvement over his career average just to equal what Timo did in the worst season of his career. If the sox want to give him another chance that's fine. In that scenario I hope he succeeds but you can't say something like "at worst he'll be better than timo" because it just isn't true.

Neither Borchard or Timo have the plate patience to make walking a positive stat for them. Yes Borchard has more power but does the ability to hit a homerun once every 20 AB make up for the fact that he will likely fail to put up good numbers in just about every other statistic?

Right now I believe if Borchard makes the team it won't be for his bat. He'd be strictly a defensive sub who might get a start against a fifth starter once in awhile.

Banix12
02-14-2006, 08:42 PM
Sounds like a possible scenario.

Gload can at least somewhat play both corner OF positions (I stress the somewhat), plus a pretty good 1B. Mackowiak can definitely play CF (plus the other OF positions), which makes him that much more valuable with our ? for the 4th OF spot.

But if you take Gload and his bat, you're sacraficing Borchard's speed. But at this point, with Pablo on the bench, that's all Borchard brings to the table and he becomes more expendable, so Gload might be the best option afterall.

Who knows, all our questions will *hopefully* be answered in ST, which starts in 3 days by the way :cool:

I don't know how much you sacrifice the speed if you drop Borchard. Certainly he has good speed but it's not like he really has ever used it on the basepaths. The main way he uses his speed is his OF defense. Gload is not a speed demon but he runs the bases well.

Tragg
02-15-2006, 12:01 AM
As you and I have talked before, you should know I am hardly a Timo defender. I think he was relatively useless, especially last season. However I just don't think you can say with certainty that Borchard "can't be worse" than Timo because frankly he's been worse than Timo in all his MLB stints and Timo was a much better AAA hitter than Borchard when he was in the minors. .

I guess I'm just happy that we let him go; could Borchard be worse? Yea, he could be I suppose. But it's worth the risk, because Timo wasn't even close to mediocre.

Borchard looks like a Leifer to me...not what we need, but better than we had on our world championship team.

Banix12
02-15-2006, 12:46 AM
I guess I'm just happy that we let him go; could Borchard be worse? Yea, he could be I suppose. But it's worth the risk, because Timo wasn't even close to mediocre.

Borchard looks like a Leifer to me...not what we need, but better than we had on our world championship team.

I'm really wondering what will become available at the end of spring training. I'm sure some team will have something available that could very well be superior. Sometimes you can find a gem on the waiver wire. I remember that's how the sox got Herbert Perry in 2000.