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View Full Version : Ozzie on HBO upsets New York columnist


Fenway
02-05-2006, 01:45 PM
in the Sunday sports media section of the NY Daily News

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/story/388473p-329631c.html

Mod Edit: Why give the link when you quoted that entire portion of the article? Here, I'll help you do it properly.

Boozer
02-05-2006, 02:01 PM
I don't think it's talking trash when it is the truth.

UofCSoxFan
02-05-2006, 02:05 PM
He says something similar in the World Series DVD....something to the effect that a manager is only as good as its players...if you don't have the horses you can't run the Kentucky Derby. While that certainly is true......imo good managers let their players play and utilize their abilities. Bad managers get in the way of their players talents.

SouthSide_HitMen
02-05-2006, 02:06 PM
Things will get ugly if / when the White Sox have a bad season down the road. Hopefully it is far down the road (as in next decade).

MarySwiss
02-05-2006, 02:07 PM
Don'tcha just hate it when East Coast columnists get upset? :tongue:

dugwood31
02-05-2006, 02:11 PM
When a manager wins a World Series and says it's the players who win, not the manager, he's being modest.

Ol' No. 2
02-05-2006, 02:18 PM
I think you have to give Torre his due. Managing that collection of egos is not the easiest job in the world.

DenverSock
02-05-2006, 02:19 PM
in the Sunday sports media section of the NY Daily News

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/story/388473p-329631c.html


What's the big deal? Casey Stengel said much the same thing many times over his career. BTW, Bryant Gumble, IIRC, is a southsider and long time Sox fan. Same for his brother.

kevin57
02-05-2006, 02:20 PM
I love it. Ozzie takes it to the NY media 'elites.'

"It was bad enough that some upstart hick team from the Midwest shows up George's boys, but for this Latino (I would use a worse word but don't want to run afoul the rules.) boss to denigrate our captain, well, that will not be tolerated."

TheOldRoman
02-05-2006, 02:22 PM
Things will get ugly if / when the White Sox have a bad season down the road. Hopefully it is far down the road (as in next decade). Hopefully they win the next 26, and then Ozzie decides to retire as a 27 time champion. After that, I could live with mediocrity.:D:

I don't see the big deal about his comments. What he is saying is essentially true. Coaches are defined by their players. I think that Phil Jackson is very overrated. He had the greatest player of all time and another hall of famer in Pippen on the Bulls. On the Lakers he had one possible hall of famer and the most dominant player of his era. However, I have yet to see a coach win a championship with bad players. As great of a manager I think he is, Ozzie wouldn't have won this title if he didn't have the four great starters, a great bullpen, and a solid lineup with speed and power. Ozzie couldn't have taken the 2002 White Sox to a championship, just like Phil Jackson couldn't have taken the 2002 Bulls to a championship.

This is just more media garbage. The next ten times the Sox travel to NY Ozzie will be hounded by the media about these comments. Ozzie didn't say anything bad at all, but of course the asses in the NY media will try to turn it into "disrespecting the Yankees".

TornLabrum
02-05-2006, 02:26 PM
What's the big deal? Casey Stengel said much the same thing many times over his career. BTW, Bryant Gumble, IIRC, is a southsider and long time Sox fan. Same for his brother.

Bryant was the Cubs fan. Greg was the Sox fan.

SOXSINCE'70
02-05-2006, 02:28 PM
:whocares
The Yankmees pose no threat this year.They're too damn old.
Randy Johnson has back issues and you don't know what Mussina,
Carl Pavano,Aaron Small and Jaret Wright are going to be able to contribute.
I can't wait for Johnny Damon's first 5 for 56 streak.
Also,Bernie Williams is your DH,and no one knows which Jason Giambi
will show up (pre-steroids or post steroids),IMHO.

I'll take the Blow Sawx in the East,the Halos in the West
and the Sox will hang on and repeat as Central champs,holding
off late season charges from the Twinkies and Tribe.:cool:

SOXSINCE'70
02-05-2006, 02:32 PM
Bryant was the Cubs fan. Greg was the Sox fan.

I knew there was a reason not to trust Bryant.:D:

TheOldRoman
02-05-2006, 02:33 PM
The Yankmees pose no threat this year.They're too damn old.
Randy Johnson has back issues,you don't know what Mussina,
Carl Pavano and Jaret Wright are going to be able to contribute,
what will Aaron Small bring to the table this year,
and I can't wait for Johnny Damon's first 5 for 56 streak.
Also,Bernie Williams is your DH,anmd no one knows which Jason Giambi
will show up (pre-steroids or post steroids),IMHO.

I'll take the Blow Sawx in the East,the Halos in the West
and the Sox will hang on and repeat as Central champs,holding
off late season charges from the Twinkies and Tribe.:cool: I think the Yankees are a threat because of all their offense. They won't go anywhere in the playoffs, but they are still very dangerous. I do know what Carl Pavano and Jaret Wright are going to give the Yankees - ZERO.
As for Giambi, he is now on the untestable HGH, and hitting those zingers again.

I think the Blue Jays will take the east, Yankees take the wildcard, and Angels take the west. I don't want to be picky, but I hope the playoffs are a little more exciting this time. And would it kill them to lose a couple of games so they can clinch at home?:D:

SOXSINCE'70
02-05-2006, 02:35 PM
I think the Yankees are a threat because of all their offense. They won't go anywhere in the playoffs, but they are still very dangerous. I do know what Carl Pavano and Jaret Wright are going to give the Yankees - ZERO.
As for Giambi, he is now on the untestable HGH, and hitting those zingers again.

All good points.Thanks for making them.

Ol' No. 2
02-05-2006, 02:35 PM
Hopefully they win the next 26, and then Ozzie decides to retire as a 27 time champion. After that, I could live with mediocrity.:D:

I don't see the big deal about his comments. What he is saying is essentially true. Coaches are defined by their players. I think that Phil Jackson is very overrated. He had the greatest player of all time and another hall of famer in Pippen on the Bulls. On the Lakers he had one possible hall of famer and the most dominant player of his era. However, I have yet to see a coach win a championship with bad players. As great of a manager I think he is, Ozzie wouldn't have won this title if he didn't have the four great starters, a great bullpen, and a solid lineup with speed and power. Ozzie couldn't have taken the 2002 White Sox to a championship, just like Phil Jackson couldn't have taken the 2002 Bulls to a championship.

This is just more media garbage. The next ten times the Sox travel to NY Ozzie will be hounded by the media about these comments. Ozzie didn't say anything bad at all, but of course the asses in the NY media will try to turn it into "disrespecting the Yankees".But that's just it...Ozzie inherited a team that wasn't built to win and proceeded to change them into one that was (obviously with Kenny's help). It wasn't that he 2004 Sox had bad players - they just didn't have the right mix. Jackson had a great team, but Doug Collins had basically the same team and failed. Torre has to deal with some of the biggest egos in the game in the most difficult environment - not an easy task. Different things are required of different managers/coaches with different teams. You have to have the right person in the right situation.

TheOldRoman
02-05-2006, 02:39 PM
But that's just it...Ozzie inherited a team that wasn't built to win and proceeded to change them into one that was (obviously with Kenny's help). It wasn't that he 2004 Sox had bad players - they just didn't have the right mix. Jackson had a great team, but Doug Collins had basically the same team and failed. Torre has to deal with some of the biggest egos in the game in the most difficult environment - not an easy task. Different things are required of different managers/coaches with different teams. You have to have the right person in the right situation.
I agree. I am just saying, great managers don't win with crappy teams. They build better teams and win with them. Success is equal parts great talent and great managing. I don't think anyone on here would claim Jerry Manuel would have taken this squad to the title if he had the chance.

JohnBasedowYoda
02-05-2006, 02:48 PM
He says something similar in the World Series DVD....something to the effect that a manager is only as good as its players...if you don't have the horses you can't run the Kentucky Derby. While that certainly is true......imo good managers let their players play and utilize their abilities. Bad managers get in the way of their players talents.

joe torre ::nods::

samram
02-05-2006, 02:49 PM
I think you have to give Torre his due. Managing that collection of egos is not the easiest job in the world.

It's strange that Torre won WS when he really didn't have all those egos to deal with. They won with Brosius, O'Neill, Girardi, etc. It's when Steinbrenner decided to have an All-Star at every position that they stopped winning. You could argue that Torre isn't best suited to manage a team with a lot of egos, although his demeanor seems to be one that would enable him to do so.

soxruleEP
02-05-2006, 02:57 PM
Unless I'm missing something, all the quotes are just some typical sports cliches rendered in Ozzie speak. The indignant attitude of the columnist is actually unearned. But he knows that for his audience, any comment about a New York team that is less than haigography is insulting.

Besides, how dare anyone west of the Hudson have an opinion?

TDog
02-05-2006, 03:16 PM
Unless I'm missing something, all the quotes are just some typical sports cliches rendered in Ozzie speak. The indignant attitude of the columnist is actually unearned. But he knows that for his audience, any comment about a New York team that is less than haigography is insulting. ...

I thought I was missing something too. Torre wasn't consistently successful until he went to the Yankees -- unlike Billy Martin who won divisions in Minnesota, had success in Oakland and had Texas playing very good baseball before he went to the Yankees. Torre did little to distinguish himself as a manager as the manager for the Mets and Cardinals. He won the division in his first year with the Braves, but his teams fell in the standings after that. Without the players, Joe Torre isn't going to win, just as Guillen didn't win the year he didn't have a strong pitching staff.

If Joe Torre had said Ozzie Guillen was a great manager because his pitchers had great seasons, I wouldn't consider that trash talk either.

RadioheadRocks
02-05-2006, 03:44 PM
What's the big deal? Casey Stengel said much the same thing many times over his career. BTW, Bryant Gumble, IIRC, is a southsider and long time Sox fan. Same for his brother.

Bryant Gumbel is a south sider but he's a well-known Cub fan and is also known for not being a Sox fan, while Greg is definitely a Sox fan.

Ol' No. 2
02-05-2006, 04:05 PM
It's strange that Torre won WS when he really didn't have all those egos to deal with. They won with Brosius, O'Neill, Girardi, etc. It's when Steinbrenner decided to have an All-Star at every position that they stopped winning. You could argue that Torre isn't best suited to manage a team with a lot of egos, although his demeanor seems to be one that would enable him to do so.Not strange at all. They won with a team that was built free of Steinbrenner's interferance. Their problem has nothing to do with Joe Torre.

MarySwiss
02-05-2006, 04:05 PM
Bryant Gumbel is a south sider but he's a well-known Cub fan and is also known for not being a Sox fan, while Greg is definitely a Sox fan.

Ahhhh! I always liked Greg better. And now I know why! :smile:

TornLabrum
02-05-2006, 05:03 PM
Ahhhh! I always liked Greg better. And now I know why! :smile:

Bryant always came off to me as a smug, self-important ego-maniac. Come to think of it, that's the profile of a Cubs fan.

jackbrohamer
02-05-2006, 05:18 PM
Bryant always came off to me as a smug, self-important ego-maniac. Come to think of it, that's the profile of a Cubs fan.

And Greg always came off to me as nicer, genuinely interested in sports and unpretentious. Funny how that works out! :cool:

jehosaphat
02-05-2006, 08:06 PM
The indignant attitude of the columnist is actually unearned.

Right, his quotes are not particularly inflamatory. Ozzie is well liked by baseball people around the league, and Torre certainly won't care. The only one who cares about this set of comments is the columnist.

However .........., Ozzie's public comments over the past couple years have shown that he is funny, smart, genuine, charming, and a sort of blowsy. I wonder if the day will come when he says somehting really "stupid" and it becomes a giant distraction/embarassment for the team.

Half Cocked Jack
02-06-2006, 01:57 AM
Ozzie Guillen is great, that's all that needs to be said here.

IlliniSox4Life
02-06-2006, 03:12 AM
How is it trash talking when he isn't saying he's any better than any of them? Ozzie never said in there he was better than Torre, he was just saying that managers definately don't matter as much as the players.

New York just takes exception to anything that doesn't make them look like the greatest thing since sliced bread.

voodoochile
02-06-2006, 06:57 AM
Hopefully they win the next 26, and then Ozzie decides to retire as a 27 time champion. After that, I could live with mediocrity.:D:

I don't see the big deal about his comments. What he is saying is essentially true. Coaches are defined by their players. I think that Phil Jackson is very overrated. He had the greatest player of all time and another hall of famer in Pippen on the Bulls. On the Lakers he had one possible hall of famer and the most dominant player of his era. However, I have yet to see a coach win a championship with bad players. As great of a manager I think he is, Ozzie wouldn't have won this title if he didn't have the four great starters, a great bullpen, and a solid lineup with speed and power. Ozzie couldn't have taken the 2002 White Sox to a championship, just like Phil Jackson couldn't have taken the 2002 Bulls to a championship.

This is just more media garbage. The next ten times the Sox travel to NY Ozzie will be hounded by the media about these comments. Ozzie didn't say anything bad at all, but of course the asses in the NY media will try to turn it into "disrespecting the Yankees".

It's funny because this is the exact same argument that Red Auerbach tried to make until someone asked him how many championships he won before he drafted Bill Russel...

Indirectly Ozzie is actually saying he, himself actually is a great manager, because of the people he mentioned, Ozzie arguably had the least talent (relative to the league and year they won it in).

Still, there is more to coaching than in game strategy and if you have the best player in the game, a man who is not only an amazing talent, but a hard worker and a on-the-floor coach, and you don't give him extra rein to improve the team in whatever way he can than you suck as a coach...:rolleyes:

TheOldRoman
02-06-2006, 11:34 AM
It's funny because this is the exact same argument that Red Auerbach tried to make until someone asked him how many championships he won before he drafted Bill Russel...

Indirectly Ozzie is actually saying he, himself actually is a great manager, because of the people he mentioned, Ozzie arguably had the least talent (relative to the league and year they won it in).

Still, there is more to coaching than in game strategy and if you have the best player in the game, a man who is not only an amazing talent, but a hard worker and a on-the-floor coach, and you don't give him extra rein to improve the team in whatever way he can than you suck as a coach...:rolleyes:
That's just what I am saying. You can't say a coach isn't great because he won with the best players. A lot of the game is coaching, and as Jerry Manual showed, very very good teams don't even make the playoffs when they have poor coaching. Success has as much to do with good coaching as it does good players.

veeter
02-06-2006, 11:39 AM
Bryant was the Cubs fan. Greg was the Sox fan.That only makes sense. Bryant, arrogant and aloof. Greg, down to earth and cool.

robiwho
02-06-2006, 01:34 PM
When a manager wins a World Series and says it's the players who win, not the manager, he's being modest.

Exactly what I was thinking!

FarSouthSoxFan
02-06-2006, 01:37 PM
:windsock:

Sounds like a New Yawker version of our very own Donut-Eating-Windsock.

wilburaga
02-06-2006, 02:12 PM
Sounds like a New Yawker version of our very own Donut-Eating-Windsock.

That's an accurate assessment. Raissman is a slug. Nothing 'elite' about him.


W

PennStater98r
02-06-2006, 06:02 PM
This guy works for a newpaper that has a lot of class -- reporting and snapping pictures at Chris Penn's funeral.

http://www.imdb.com/news/wenn/2006-02-06/#3

Whitesox029
02-06-2006, 06:54 PM
Tell me where in that article where Ozzie says he's better than Phil Jackson and Joe Torre and I will agree that he's talking trash. He's making a general point using examples that it's NOT THE MANAGER OR HEAD COACH that wins championships, it's the players. In reality, he's being humble. Anyone who has listened to Ozzie for more than 5 minutes would know that.

SOXPHILE
02-07-2006, 12:10 PM
Bryant always came off to me as a smug, self-important ego-maniac. Come to think of it, that's the profile of a Cubs fan.

Ditto. I never cared for him either.


:hijacked:

One of the funniest stories I ever heard about him was back during the old Late Night With David Letterman Show. Bryant was sitting outside in Rockafeller Plaza, taping a show. Letterman, from one of the upper floors, opened his window, and using a bullhorn, shouted down "I'm Brandon Tartticof (sp ?), president of NBC, and I'm not wearing any pants !!" This REALLY flustered and pissed off Gumble, and he was mad about it for quite a while. Good ! I'm glad. Pompous jerk.

woodenleg
02-07-2006, 12:47 PM
Don'tcha just hate it when East Coast columnists get upset? :tongue:

These people are IDIOTS. Lots of what Ozzie says is meant to be funny and over the top, but these people are miserable and humorless and live in a cultural vacuum. Plus I think he's egging them on deliberately, because he knows how uptight they are and how they always overreact to him and make asses of themselves in the bargain.

Come on - does anyone think Ozzie really wants to shoot people?

Why is the east coast press so humorless, so uptight? I'd rather read Mariotti than this crap.

Hangar18
02-07-2006, 12:55 PM
BTW, Bryant Gumble, IIRC, is a southsider and long time Sox fan. Same for his brother.

They grew up SOX fans because they were from the south side, but Bryant the sell-out that he is, turned cubby blue a while back. Greg (the nfl correspondent) still maintains his SOX allegiance.

Hangar18
02-07-2006, 01:05 PM
That only makes sense. Bryant, arrogant and aloof. Greg, down to earth and cool.

Arrogant, Pretentious, Dumb, and a sense of entitlement = Cub Fans

Humble, Laid-back, Intelligent, and a show-me attitude = Sox Fans

Pretty Ironic that Bryan Gumble comes off as Arrogant and Pretentious while
Greg Gumble has always seems to come off as Laid-Back and Humble.

MUsoxfan
02-07-2006, 01:18 PM
They grew up SOX fans because they were from the south side, but Bryant the sell-out that he is, turned cubby blue a while back. Greg (the nfl correspondent) still maintains his SOX allegiance.

http://www.familyguyfiles.com/epics/thumbs/1ACX12_1.jpg

Mmmmhmmmm...
Mmmmhmmmm

DenverSock
02-07-2006, 01:18 PM
They grew up SOX fans because they were from the south side, but Bryant the sell-out that he is, turned cubby blue a while back. Greg (the nfl correspondent) still maintains his SOX allegiance.

Explains why I remember him talking about spending his summers in Comiskey. Didn't know he had switched allegiances. :smile:

The Dude
02-07-2006, 08:28 PM
http://www.familyguyfiles.com/epics/thumbs/1ACX12_1.jpg

Mmmmhmmmm...
Mmmmhmmmm

"Taste that...thats the taste of beach justice!"

TornLabrum
02-07-2006, 09:15 PM
They grew up SOX fans because they were from the south side, but Bryant the sell-out that he is, turned cubby blue a while back. Greg (the nfl correspondent) still maintains his SOX allegiance.

Interesting because I remember seeing an interview with both of them on a local TV station where they talked about arguing about the Cubs vs. the Sox while growing up.

FarWestChicago
02-07-2006, 09:27 PM
Interesting because I remember seeing an interview with both of them on a local TV station where they talked about arguing about the Cubs vs. the Sox while growing up.Facts vs. hallucinations. :redneck

kravdog
02-07-2006, 10:33 PM
thats over. it was alright. gumble is a dweeb.

woodenleg
02-07-2006, 10:52 PM
Yeah, I don't recall the part that got the writer so riled:

"At least Guillen tells us why he feels compelled to make these statements. 'I like trouble. Why not? A lot of people have their way to say stuff. I got my way,' Guillen said. 'Attack. Attack. I never take the first punch, never. Believe me, you throw me rocks, I'm gonna F-16 and just try to kill you.'

Charming fellow."

I must say I got a different impression from this little interview than he did.

JoeItalia7
02-08-2006, 11:16 AM
The problem is we live in a society where everyone is afraid to tell the truth. so when someone does, everyone freaks out

Hangar18
02-08-2006, 11:18 AM
The problem is we live in a society where everyone is afraid to tell the truth. so when someone does, everyone freaks out


Heh heh, aint that the truth

Lip Man 1
02-08-2006, 01:25 PM
Sports Illustrated perhaps a decade ago also did a long feature profile on the Gumble's. The story clearly stated that Greg grew up a Sox fan while Bryant was a Cubs fan despite both being born and raised on the South Side.

Lip

soxinem1
02-08-2006, 03:35 PM
I knew there was a reason not to trust Bryant.:D:

Never liked him anyway..... Greg is/was the better announcer.

Fake Chet Lemon
02-09-2006, 02:02 PM
Just appreciate this new parallel universe that Kenny & Ozzie have created, a universe in which everything is in reverse from what we once knew. NOW the East Coast media is bitching about things in flyover country! That's a beautiful thing. We are in year 1A.C. (A.fter White Sox C.hampionship).

Rounding_Third
02-10-2006, 02:29 PM
Bryant was the Cubs fan. Greg was the Sox fan.

How appropriate is that since Bryant is a jerk and Greg is pretty cool? In the wrap-up of the Ozzie interview, Bryant said something like "Ozzie has instigated confrontations with Ordonez and Thomas. Why?" I'm not sure about what he's talking about with Frank but Magglio instigated his confrontation with his White Sox whining and criticism. Bryant is notorious for reporting without investigating.

maurice
02-10-2006, 02:41 PM
Ordonez instigated confrontations by lying his ass off and making personal remarks.

The media claimed that Ozzie instigated a confrontation with Frank when he first took the Sox job. In fact, the media quoted him out of context. Ozzie referenced multiple Sox players and did not single-out Frank, as the media claimed. Ozzie refused to criticize Frank for recent comments, because Ozzie felt the same way and said the same things when the Sox cut him loose.