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View Full Version : Are there any relievers available?


caulfield12
01-31-2006, 04:47 PM
I did a quick check of the middle relievers and found out that it wasnīt quite as easy to come up with one as I would have thought....and there are no sure things. Madson, who has been mentioned with the ĻfakeĻ Contreras deal, is obviously one of the best.

Best options
Scott Linebrink
Gary Majewski (yeah, that short geeky guy with the glasses)
Luis Ayala
JJ Putz (just having him on your team, you deserve to lose, lol)
Mike DeJean
Todd Williams
Rheal Cormier

Wow, none of those names exactly strike fear into your heart. Actually, the other kid, along with Madson, that I like is Jason Frasor from Toronto, but he would come at a hefty price as well.

Heck, Kelly Wunsch and Jamie Walker were in the Top 40 in MLB hold statistics.

My back-up list is Mike Gonzalez from PIT, Al Reyes (donīt think we could get him), Dan Wheeler and Jay Witasick.

Maybe Marte and Vizcaino do not look so bad, after all.

Ol' No. 2
01-31-2006, 05:11 PM
Relievers still available right before spring training starts have a lot in common with women still available in a bar right before closing time.

Banix12
01-31-2006, 05:14 PM
Are there relievers available? Sure
Are there good relievers available? Nope

We've reached a point in the offseason where the best available option is still only the 200th best option overall.

Relievers are a volitile commodity, maybe the sox will get lucky with somebody.

CWSpalehoseCWS
01-31-2006, 05:16 PM
What about Jason Christiansen? Has he been signed yet? I always thought he would make a good minor league sign and possible 12th pitcher. He's a LHP too.

y2j2785
01-31-2006, 05:32 PM
Isn't Brian Meadows still a free agent? I believe he's a LHP.

Mr. White Sox
01-31-2006, 05:34 PM
I like Scott Linebrink over our last-resort RHP, whoever that may be.

Banix12
01-31-2006, 09:34 PM
What about Jason Christiansen? Has he been signed yet? I always thought he would make a good minor league sign and possible 12th pitcher. He's a LHP too.

Still available and will be available for awhile. He's really only had one really good season in the last seven years and that was 2001. Doesn't have much left in the tank and I think some of the lefties the sox have already brought in are better, even as AAA filler.

The Free Agent list is pretty worthless right now and most teams right now aren't interested in trading quality relievers. mostly because there aren't many available.

What we have is what we are going to have.

santo=dorf
01-31-2006, 10:00 PM
How about signing a mediocre starter and throwing him in the pen?

SOXintheBURGH
01-31-2006, 10:31 PM
I'd love to see Gary Majewski in black and silver. Ranked 5th in the NL in holds last year I believe. WHIP and BAA were nothing remarkable but he got a lot of big, big outs for the Gnats last season.

Jjav829
01-31-2006, 11:43 PM
:rwhite:
"Hey losers, you just missed out on me. I'll be taking my dominance to Cincy."

Reds agreed to terms with RHP Rick White, who had been with the Pirates, on a one-year, $600,000 contract.
Everyone is a candidate to close in Cincinnati right now, but White's a pretty awful choice. While he had a 3.72 ERA last season, his WHIP stood at 1.59. He finished 2004 with a 5.29 ERA for the Indians. The Reds should just hope he's an adequate middle reliever.

Banix12
02-01-2006, 01:05 AM
How about signing a mediocre starter and throwing him in the pen?

Who did you have in mind? There really aren't any lefty starters left on the FA list. John Halama probably being the best available. Maybe try to turn Kirk Rueter into a LOOGY and see what happens.

From the right side we would be talking about Josh Fogg and Ismael Valdez probably.

Tragg
02-01-2006, 09:00 AM
Who did you have in mind? There really aren't any lefty starters left on the FA list. John Halama probably being the best available.
A real soft thrower. We probably have just as good a chance at finding a keeper in our own pool of pitchers that we're bringing to the spring than any of the available pitchers (although Majewski's okay)

White Sox Randy
02-01-2006, 09:22 AM
What about Jesse Ozozco ? I heard that he only needs the walker to get to and from the mound.

russ99
02-01-2006, 10:45 AM
Linebrink is a pretty good middle reliever. Maybe he wants too much $$$.

There's a pervasive theory around MLB's GM's (at least the smart non-NY ones) that you get better results with cheap and hungry rookies in the middle/long relief roles that with overpriced (and overpitched) free agents.

I don't expect Kenny to get another reliever unless none of the kids pan out in spring training.

Stoky44
02-01-2006, 10:50 AM
Good relievers===> Sox farm system. Well they might not be considered "good" beccause they are not proven, but this is where we are getting our pen help from.

gr8mexico
02-01-2006, 11:01 AM
I'm still hoping that everything works out with Urbina and the Sox give him a minor league contract later in the year and help the Sox down the stretch and into the playoffs. At Soxfest I was able to ask Ozzie about Urbina while he was leaving the seminar on Saturday and he was happy someone asked he just said he was doing good. By the way does anyone have Ozzie's e-mail address I cant find it.

Stoky44
02-01-2006, 11:20 AM
By the way does anyone have Ozzie's e-mail address I cant find it.

ozzieguillen13@hotmail.com
He used to get a lot of email, and if they are in English he often won't read them. I think Ozzie Jr. goes through them for Ozzie. You have to grab his atttention in the suject line, I heard some guy's email subject was something like "Ozzie you ****ing *******, I hate you **** head. I hope you rot in hell." Be creative and funny. Ozzie said he had to read that one, and the guy ended up complimented Ozzie & the team and just asking for tickets(which ozzie gave him for creativeness).

TDog
02-01-2006, 11:21 AM
How about signing a mediocre starter and throwing him in the pen?

Often a good reliever is a mediocre starter fulfilling his potential.

Rick White was considered a very good reliever before he came to the Sox. Some of the relievers signing this year as free agents will inspire the sort of scorn from fans that Rick White did with Sox fans.

White is still around, but at this point he is not available as the Pirates have locked him up.

santo=dorf
02-01-2006, 12:38 PM
Often a good reliever is a mediocre starter fulfilling his potential.

Rick White was considered a very good reliever before he came to the Sox. Some of the relievers signing this year as free agents will inspire the sort of scorn from fans that Rick White did with Sox fans.

White is still around, but at this point he is not available as the Pirates have locked him up.

Are you kidding me? His track record isn't that good, and the reason why people were high on getting him was because of his performance with the Cards after he got released from the Rockies. White signed with the Reds.

Looking at the original list;
Linebrink isn't a free agent, and San Diego has already lost enough from their Rock Solid bullpen from last season.
Majewski is not a free agent and has been in our system 3 times (why not just give one of our current minor leaguers a shot then?)
Ayala re-signed with the Nats
not impressed with Putz's high WHIP or near 4 ERA.
Dejean re-signed with the Rockies a long time ago.
The 35 year old Todd Williams already agreed to a one year deal with the O's
Rheal Cormier is coming off a dissapointing season and he is too expensive.

Caulfield, did you not know that all these guys were already signed, or did you some how think their teams would just sign them for the purpose of trading them before spring training? :rolleyes:

I will never understand why people like Lip are so obsessed with getting "veteran" pitchers for our bullpen. Don't you think there's a reason why they played with so many teams? Wasn't Mike Jackson a "veteran?" Billy Koch is still available. Think we can get Mike Morgan to come out of retirement?

caulfield12
02-01-2006, 05:03 PM
Are you kidding me? His track record isn't that good, and the reason why people were high on getting him was because of his performance with the Cards after he got released from the Rockies. White signed with the Reds.

Looking at the original list;
Linebrink isn't a free agent, and San Diego has already lost enough from their Rock Solid bullpen from last season.
Majewski is not a free agent and has been in our system 3 times (why not just give one of our current minor leaguers a shot then?)
Ayala re-signed with the Nats
not impressed with Putz's high WHIP or near 4 ERA.
Dejean re-signed with the Rockies a long time ago.
The 35 year old Todd Williams already agreed to a one year deal with the O's
Rheal Cormier is coming off a dissapointing season and he is too expensive.

Caulfield, did you not know that all these guys were already signed, or did you some how think their teams would just sign them for the purpose of trading them before spring training? :rolleyes:

I will never understand why people like Lip are so obsessed with getting "veteran" pitchers for our bullpen. Don't you think there's a reason why they played with so many teams? Wasn't Mike Jackson a "veteran?" Billy Koch is still available. Think we can get Mike Morgan to come out of retirement?


No, I just did a simple screen for Holds and found that most of the leaders in this category, with a few exceptions, were not exactly the dominant pitchers I thought I would prefer to Marte and Vizcaino.

santo=dorf
02-01-2006, 05:15 PM
Holds is easily the most worthless stat in baseball. Easily.

I have seen teams get credit for 3 holds in one inning and I have seen Damaso Marte (and others) get credited with a hold and a loss in the same game.

Lip Man 1
02-01-2006, 05:20 PM
Dorf:

There's a difference between a vetarn who can still play and a veteran who is done. It's up to team management to figure out which is which when they are acquiring talent.

Based on the Sox history with pitchers, particularly since 1996 I look for vets because they at least don't crap in their pants when taking the mound.

I'm simply more comfortable in a pressure situation, with a potential post season berth on the line, with someone who has some sort of track record at the highest level possible.

For every Francisco Rodriguez and potentially Bobby Jenks (if his elbow stays in one piece) there are a dozen guys like Bryan Ward, Luis Andujar and Jeff Darwin.

Like Casey Stengel once said, the only thing rookies do is get managers fired.

That's just my opinion...doesn't mean it's right or wrong.

Lip

Huisj
02-01-2006, 05:27 PM
I have seen Damaso Marte (and others) get credited with a hold and a loss in the same game.

How does that work? If you lose, you didn't hold the game where it was, and thus shouldn't get a hold, right?:?:

santo=dorf
02-01-2006, 07:27 PM
How does that work? If you lose, you didn't hold the game where it was, and thus shouldn't get a hold, right?:?:

Nope. Guy comes in with nobody on or out in the 8th of a 1-0 game. Strikes the first guy out but walks the next 3. New pitcher comes in and gives up an extra base hit. The other team takes over, the original pitcher gets charged with the loss.

How is it a guy gets credit for a hold if he pitches 1/3 of an inning ot 2 innings?

It's a terrible stat.

caulfield12
02-01-2006, 09:07 PM
Dorf:

There's a difference between a vetarn who can still play and a veteran who is done. It's up to team management to figure out which is which when they are acquiring talent.

Based on the Sox history with pitchers, particularly since 1996 I look for vets because they at least don't crap in their pants when taking the mound.

I'm simply more comfortable in a pressure situation, with a potential post season berth on the line, with someone who has some sort of track record at the highest level possible.

For every Francisco Rodriguez and potentially Bobby Jenks (if his elbow stays in one piece) there are a dozen guys like Bryan Ward, Luis Andujar and Jeff Darwin.

Like Casey Stengel once said, the only thing rookies do is get managers fired.

That's just my opinion...doesn't mean it's right or wrong.

Lip

Jose Paniagua basically got Manuel fired, lol.

Jesus Pena was one of my favorites. Does Jerry Kutzler count?

Back to the good ol days, I was a big Wayne Edwards and Donn Pope Pall fan.

TDog
02-02-2006, 12:32 AM
Are you kidding me? ...

I wasn't suggesting the Sox pursue Rick White. I was pointing out that baseball people were raving about the Sox acquiring Rick White a couple of years ago, after White had an ERA below 1 in a partial season with the Cards.

The bigger point is that you don't know what you're going to get with free agent relievers.

Tragg
02-02-2006, 01:10 AM
Often a good reliever is a mediocre starter fulfilling his potential.

Rick White was considered a very good reliever before he came to the Sox. Some of the relievers signing this year as free agents will inspire the sort of scorn from fans that Rick White did with Sox fans.

White is still around, but at this point he is not available as the Pirates have locked him up.

I tend to agree. Middle releivers are there for a reason -they are generally the worst pitchers on a team. Plenty of mediocre ex starters fill those roles, and some do it well: Hermanson and POlite. Hell El D last year too.