PDA

View Full Version : This is news


Daver
01-05-2002, 12:05 PM
That doesn't add any confidence to ST starting on time.

NEW YORK -- Baseball players and owners agreed to start labor negotiations Tuesday, two months and a day after their previous collective bargaining agreement expired.

The sides set the date Friday, when arbitrator Shyam Das heard his seventh day of testimony in the union's grievance to block owners from eliminating two teams before next season.

Union lawyer Michael Weiner, the second witness in the hearing, completed his second day of testimony. Union head Donald Fehr followed and finished his direct testimony. The hearing recessed until next Thursday as management lawyers were in the midst of their cross-examination.

Das, who already had agreed to continue the hearing on Jan. 10 and 11, told the sides Friday he would hear more testimony on Jan. 14 and 24. He also said he would try to be available for an additional day during that period.

Meanwhile, there was a big sign Friday that contraction won't happen for 2002: The Twins hired Ron Gardenhire as manager and gave him a two-year contract. The team had held off a decision because of the uncertainty caused by commissioner Bud Selig's contraction plan.

The schedule makes it unlikely Das will be able to make a decision before the beginning of February -- two weeks before spring training begins. The union claims owners violated the provisions of the expired labor contract, which remains in force, when they voted Nov. 6 to eliminate two teams.

Minnesota and Montreal were the likely choices, but contraction was stopped when a Minnesota judge issues an injunction Nov. 16 that orders the Twins to play at the Metrodome next season. The Minnesota Court of Appeals hasn't ruled on the attempt by baseball and the Twins to lift the injunction.

While collective bargaining is to start next week, it's unclear if owners are prepared to make their central economic proposals. Management lawyer Rob Manfred declined comment

czalgosz
01-05-2002, 12:09 PM
Das will side with the players - he always does. Of course, the owners are being incredibly stupid by going with this "we're losing money" tactic - a) No one believes you and b) no one cares. If the owners focused on rising ticket prices, I think the fans would be more sympathetic.

:reinsy

But if we did that, we might have to lower prices! I'd much rather raise them! Let's see... If we raised bleacher prices to $50 a pop, we'll really rake it in!! Upper deck to $35! I'll be rich!

SOXSINCE'70
01-05-2002, 12:10 PM
I think Vinnie Barbarino summed it up perfectly:

"I'M SO CONFUSED". :?: :?: :?: :?:

SOXSINCE'70
01-05-2002, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
Das will side with the players - he always does. Of course, the owners are being incredibly stupid by going with this "we're losing money" tactic - a) No one believes you and b) no one cares. If the owners focused on rising ticket prices, I think the fans would be more sympathetic.

:reinsy

But if we did that, we might have to lower prices! I'd much rather raise them! Let's see... If we raised bleacher prices to $50 a pop, we'll really rake it in!! Upper deck to $35! I'll be rich!

I never will side with the owners.Ever. :angry: :angry:

czalgosz
01-05-2002, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by SOXSINCE'70


I never will side with the owners.Ever. :angry: :angry:

Well, I understand your anger, but look at it from the owner's perspective - under the current system - they're all under the prisoner's dilemma. If they all exercise fiscal responsibility and can avoid a collusion lawsuit, great, but that's not going to happen. So let's look at the other two possibilities - (1) All of the owners go crazy on a spending spree, and all of them get into a bidding war on every available free agent. Then some teams really will go bankrupt trying to support huge payrolls, and Arod's deal will seem pitifully small by comparison. (2) Some of the teams spend money (Red Sox, Dodgers, both New York Teams) and everyone else tries to get by by being frugal. In which case the teams willing to spend money and add payroll win and everyone else plays in front of empty ballparks.

I mean, let's face it, even if the Sox sell out every game, they couldn't afford a $150 million payroll. Chicago simply doesn't have the money and population that New York does. So, some changes need to be made.

To their credit, the owners have pretty much dropped the idea of a salary cap and are trying to up the luxury tax, which is what I wanted them to do in the first place.

SOXSINCE'70
01-05-2002, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


Well, I understand your anger, but look at it from the owner's perspective - under the current system - they're all under the prisoner's dilemma. If they all exercise fiscal responsibility and can avoid a collusion lawsuit, great, but that's not going to happen. So let's look at the other two possibilities - (1) All of the owners go crazy on a spending spree, and all of them get into a bidding war on every available free agent. Then some teams really will go bankrupt trying to support huge payrolls, and Arod's deal will seem pitifully small by comparison. (2) Some of the teams spend money (Red Sox, Dodgers, both New York Teams) and everyone else tries to get by by being frugal. In which case the teams willing to spend money and add payroll win and everyone else plays in front of empty ballparks.

I mean, let's face it, even if the Sox sell out every game, they couldn't afford a $150 million payroll. Chicago simply doesn't have the money and population that New York does. So, some
changes need to be made.

To their credit, the owners have pretty much dropped the idea of a salary cap and are trying to up the luxury tax, which is what I wanted them to do in the first place.

Point well taken.I have no prblem with a luxary tax.But I have a problem with reinsdorf calling us a "small market team".I do not expect the Sox to spend 200 mill a year.But is it asking too much to have a payroll around 70-80 mill?? That at least keeps you competitivr,doesn't it.Hey,I just want to see a WS championship on the South Side in my lifetime.Being that I turn 40 this June,I don't know how many"next years" I have left. :gulp: :gulp:

Stop Scumbagotti before he writes again!!

czalgosz
01-05-2002, 12:51 PM
Well, having a big payroll doesn't guarantee anything - look at the Red Sox and Dodgers, both of whom have huge payrolls and have absolutely nothing to show for it. But it does seem as if it is a prerequisite these days to at least add payroll as the season goes on - to be able to take advantage of teams trying to cut payroll. That's not something the Sox have really done much of.

doublem23
01-05-2002, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by SOXSINCE'70
But is it asking too much to have a payroll around 70-80 mill?? That at least keeps you competitivr,doesn't it.

Wasn't the 2001 Sox's payroll around $65 million?

Spiff
01-05-2002, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by doublem23


Wasn't the 2001 Sox's payroll around $65 million?

$62,363,000

But you take out Well's $9m and JB's $6m and Simas's $2m.

I don't know how much Ritchie and Foulke will make this year though.

czalgosz
01-05-2002, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00


But you take out Well's $9m and JB's $6m and Simas's $2m.



:reinsy

What are you talking about? I still had to pay them...

Paulwny
01-05-2002, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


:reinsy

What are you talking about? I still had to pay them...

I'm pretty sure insurance picked up Simas' and Wells' salaries. Both were replaced by lower salaried people, saving JR ~$8 mil this year.

Spiff
01-05-2002, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


:reinsy

What are you talking about? I still had to pay them...

I meant going into this year, you can take those salaries out of the mix, which will bring the final total down.

Jerry_Manuel
01-05-2002, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00
I meant going into this year, you can take those salaries out of the mix, which will bring the final total down.

Foulke makes 4 million this year if I'm not mistaken.
Magglio's getting more money this year as well.