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View Full Version : Frank HOF=which team?


StockdaleForVeep
01-29-2006, 04:15 PM
Hypothetical, frank makes the hall, what team does he go in with. Its natural to assume the sox cuz he spent his career here but a comment given on the situation.

"Thomas, whose season was ended by recurring ankle problems that limited him to 34 games, was recognized at the team's victory parade and threw out a first pitch. But the two-time MVP said he would never have done it if he knew he was leaving."

This worries me if he is gonna hold a spite against the organization. But some things do calm me, because readin more of the yahoo article, ozzie guillen is quoted as understanding cuz he wasnt pleased being let go by the sox either

ondafarm
01-29-2006, 04:17 PM
I hope you think your kidding. Ty Cobb played for somebody after the Tigers, but he went in as a Tiger. Frank is a White Sox.

doogiec
01-29-2006, 04:17 PM
Players are not allowed to pick a team when inducted. The Hall selects that, for about 5 years now.

StockdaleForVeep
01-29-2006, 04:18 PM
I hope you think your kidding. Ty Cobb played for somebody after the Tigers, but he went in as a Tiger. Frank is a White Sox.

True, i dunno, call me a dark cloud

Now if frank would beat up an amputee....thatd be somethin to see

buehrle4cy05
01-29-2006, 04:18 PM
Putting Frank in the hall as an A would be like putting Piazza in the hall as a Marlin.

itsnotrequired
01-29-2006, 04:18 PM
Players are not allowed to pick a team when inducted. The Hall selects that, for about 5 years now.

Then it is settled...Oakland A's.

:rolleyes:

StockdaleForVeep
01-29-2006, 04:18 PM
Players are not allowed to pick a team when inducted. The Hall selects that, for about 5 years now.

Ah i didnt know, i just remember the issue over fisk going in as a white sox or red sox player

CHISOXFAN13
01-29-2006, 04:20 PM
Ah i didnt know, i just remember the issue over fisk going in as a white sox or red sox player

A little bit of a difference in the years. Frank will spend one, maybe two seasons with Oakland.

It's not even an issue.

Brian26
01-29-2006, 04:24 PM
Ah i didnt know, i just remember the issue over fisk going in as a white sox or red sox player

The issue became prevalent around 2001 when Boggs was petitioning/threatening to go into the HOF as a Tampa Bay Devil Ray if he were elected, which is really ridiculous to even consider.

The HOF makes the final call, and unless Frank plays another 16 years and hits 460 homers with the A's (which means he would play well into his mid 50's), I don't see how he doesn't go in as a White Sox.

voodoochile
01-29-2006, 04:25 PM
Ah i didnt know, i just remember the issue over fisk going in as a white sox or red sox player

They changed the rules, IIRC. MLB now selects which hat gets worn. This is a non-issue.

Bobby Thigpen
01-29-2006, 04:27 PM
1. Why does anyone care?
2. I still don't know if Frank is a sure fire lock for the hall- he will certainly not be a first ballot guy

voodoochile
01-29-2006, 04:33 PM
1. Why does anyone care?
2. I still don't know if Frank is a sure fire lock for the hall- he will certainly not be a first ballot guy

Oh lord... here we go again...

Why would we care if the greatest player in team history decided to wear a different team's cap?

Are you serious or just looking to stir up some ****?:?:

Brian26
01-29-2006, 04:35 PM
he will certainly not be a first ballot guy

I disagree.

Whitesox029
01-29-2006, 06:37 PM
1. Why does anyone care?
2. I still don't know if Frank is a sure fire lock for the hall- he will certainly not be a first ballot guy There are 10 players in the history of Major League Baseball who have a .300 career average, 400 HR, 1,000 RBI 1,000 runs, and 1,000 walks. 8 of them are in the Hall of Fame. One is Barry Bonds. The other is Frank Thomas. You have no argument whatsoever; he will go in on the first ballot.

Case closed.

I want Mags back
01-29-2006, 06:42 PM
i hope this is a joke. Thats like saying MIchael Jordan will go in as wizard, hypothetically. He played here 16 yrs, hit over 400 hr's here, and finally won a ring. He'll play 2-3 years elsewhere, hit 52 or more homers, and then retire. No chance he goes in as an A

TheOldRoman
01-29-2006, 06:55 PM
I disagree.
I don't. Frank Thomas put up the numbers to go in on the first ballot.
If EVER a player was good enough to go in on the first time, it is Frank.
However, we need to remember who votes for the HOF. The Jay Mariottis of the world. These pieces of garbage will undoubtedly look at the list, see Frank, and chuckle. "How many times did he hit 50 homers? He never made it to the highest level, so how can we rank him among the elite?"

If Frank were on any other team he would go in on the first ballot. I just dont think that a media that tried to destroy Frank and minimalize his accomplishments his whole career is going to come to their senses.

Lip Man 1
01-29-2006, 07:43 PM
There are 14 players in major league history with over 400 home runs and a batting championship.

Eleven of them are in the hall including Billy Williams, Stan Musial and Lou Gehrig.

The only three who aren't is because they are not eligible yet....Frank Thomas, Barry Bonds and Gary Sheffield.

Frank has nothing to worry about. 400+ home runs AND a batting title is the ultimate example of power and batting eye.

Frank will go into the Hall of Fame and it doesn't matter if it is on the first ballot or not. And because of the rule changes he will go in wearing a White Sox cap.

Lip

Handicaporowski
01-29-2006, 07:48 PM
If Frank put up those numbers play all 1959 games at first base, then there is no doubt that he is a 1st ballot HoF'er. He played 960 of those as a DH and those who vote for the HoF are extremely biased against DH's. Unless he leads the A's to a World Series title, he will not make it until his second try. If he is absolutely awful in Oakland, he might not make it at all.

soxfanreggie
01-29-2006, 07:53 PM
If Frank goes in as a Oakland A, I will lose all respect for him. That is like MJ going in as a Wizard (like someone said) or Wade Boggs going in as a Devil Ray.

Hokiesox
01-29-2006, 09:14 PM
If Frank goes in as a Oakland A, I will lose all respect for him. That is like MJ going in as a Wizard (like someone said) or Wade Boggs going in as a Devil Ray---oh wait, he already did that.

Boggs is in as a Red Sox. http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/plaques/Boggs_Wade.htm

Corlose 15
01-29-2006, 09:16 PM
There are 14 players in major league history with over 400 home runs and a batting championship.

Eleven of them are in the hall including Billy Williams, Stan Musial and Lou Gehrig.

The only three who aren't is because they are not eligible yet....Frank Thomas, Barry Bonds and Gary Sheffield.

Frank has nothing to worry about. 400+ home runs AND a batting title is the ultimate example of power and batting eye.

Frank will go into the Hall of Fame and it doesn't matter if it is on the first ballot or not. And because of the rule changes he will go in wearing a White Sox cap.


Lip

Its posts like these that make me chuckle whenever anyone says that Frank isn't a future HOFer. As if there's any doubt.:rolleyes:

soxinem1
01-29-2006, 09:39 PM
I hope you think your kidding. Ty Cobb played for somebody after the Tigers, but he went in as a Tiger. Frank is a White Sox.

This does not even deserve debate. Frank's wearing a Sox hat and uni on the HOF plaque!!

scottjanssens
01-29-2006, 10:33 PM
There are 14 players in major league history with over 400 home runs and a batting championship.

Two can play that game (and I can play Devil's Advocate): There are 0 DH's in the HOF.

SOXintheBURGH
01-29-2006, 10:43 PM
Two can play that game (and I can play Devil's Advocate): There are 0 DH's in the HOF.

Thank the "purists" for that. :rolleyes:

These folks also think the AL should fold. Is it Frank's fault he got drafted by an AL team, who down the road found a better defensive 1B? :mad:

TheKittle
01-29-2006, 10:46 PM
1. Why does anyone care?
2. I still don't know if Frank is a sure fire lock for the hall- he will certainly not be a first ballot guy

1. It gives people another reason to complain about something with the White Sox.

2. Frank is a lock for the HOF. He wasn't an android and he put up some great numbers. First ballot is unlikely since many will remember his last few years but Put in on the board, YESSSS Frank is a HOFer.

RadioheadRocks
01-29-2006, 11:06 PM
There are 10 players in the history of Major League Baseball who have a .300 career average, 400 HR, 1,000 RBI 1,000 runs, and 1,000 walks. 8 of them are in the Hall of Fame. One is Barry Bonds. The other is Frank Thomas. You have no argument whatsoever; he will go in on the first ballot.

Case closed.

You're definitely right, based on those statistics alone, but factor in who is doing the voting (Sportswriters, many of whom have their own preconceived notions and chips on their shoulder when it comes to their HOF ballots... consider how many of them send back blank ballots and you'll see what I mean) and all things considered, Frank might not necessarily be a "first ballot" HOF'er after all.

SouthSide_HitMen
01-29-2006, 11:12 PM
Two can play that game (and I can play Devil's Advocate): There are 0 DH's in the HOF.

Paul Molitor 1174 DH, 791 3B

EndemicSox
01-29-2006, 11:18 PM
I'm pretty sure the voters will make Frank wait a few years. He deserves to be a first ballot HOFamer, but his competition will be stiff and the voters are fickle.

ode to veeck
01-30-2006, 12:38 AM
What a ...
(1) seriously dumb question ... or

(2) wrong thread (try fake Cubune headlines thread) ... or

(3) wrong board (what's the score dude!?!)

Handicaporowski
01-30-2006, 02:28 AM
Paul Molitor 1174 DH, 791 3B


1174 DH
791 3B
400 2B
197 1B
57 SS
50 OF

First 13 of 21 years as a positional player before moving to DH. Not to mention that he actually played in 2 world series.

Like I said before, I still think he will get in...unless he really stinks it up in Oakland.

TDog
01-30-2006, 02:55 AM
This is a silly question. Whenever Thomas is elected to the HOF, MLB, which decides such things, won't have a debate over what team he'll represent. He was the face of the White Sox for more than a decade. He will come up to bat a few times for the A's. Thomas hasn't even played much for the Sox during the past two seasons. This isn't the 1993 or even the 2000 Frank Thomas going to Oakland, and I don't see him enhancing his HOF credentials in an A's uniform any more than Billy Williams enhanced his for two seasons in an A's uniform.

It always seemed the White Sox who took on former stars who were either too old or banged up to play as they once did. Maybe the change is the sign that the Sox have become a winning organization.

StockdaleForVeep
01-30-2006, 03:11 AM
i hope this is a joke. Thats like saying MIchael Jordan will go in as wizard, hypothetically. He played here 16 yrs, hit over 400 hr's here, and finally won a ring. He'll play 2-3 years elsewhere, hit 52 or more homers, and then retire. No chance he goes in as an A

The difference is michael didnt part from the bulls on bad terms, he retired(twice)

I simply addressed the issue due to recent comments by frank, esp when he said he would had not thrown the first pitch or gone to the parade had he known the sox werent gonna resign him

SweetnesSox
01-30-2006, 09:48 AM
This thread should have only taken one response to end it. :rolleyes: There's 0 chance that if Frank does get elected, he would be anything other than a Chicago player. 20 years from now we'll have to be reminded he even played for anyone else, a la Johnny Unitas.

Tekijawa
01-30-2006, 10:10 AM
I bet he goes in as a Cub... I'm pretty sure everyone wants to suit up in Cubbie Blue, even if they never did it as a player, what an honor that would be for Frank!

PennStater98r
01-30-2006, 02:53 PM
1. Why does anyone care?
2. I still don't know if Frank is a sure fire lock for the hall- he will certainly not be a first ballot guy

Here's the thing - Frank was not just the best first basemen at his position for 10 years. He was the best hitter, most feared hitter in the league for ten years.

I also remember a time in which he and Ken Griffey Jr. were fighting for who was the most popular player in the game. If you reviewed Beckett magazines back then, every single month, Frank and/or Junior were voted #1 and #2 as the most popular player in the game - by fans/baseball card collectors.

He's had some issues lately - which is the way the press is - "what have you done for me lately?" However, if the press honstly evaluates the kind of player Frank was and the numbers that he averaged per 162 games - there are only 10 to 12 guys that hold a candle to Frank.

On the Molitor comment - he may have played other positions for the first 10 years of his career, however, it's the hitting in the second half of his career that earned him a spot in the Hall - as a DH.

PennStater98r
01-30-2006, 03:46 PM
One more thought that I wanted to throw in there:

AB OBP Slug
DH 3442 .402 .512
1B 3485 .453 .625

If you call Frank Thomas a DH, you're doing him an injustice. He played more than half of his games at first base - which is roughly seven years of service.

Not only that, but Frank Thomas would be another player to retire with a .300/.400/.500 Avg/OBP/Slg. There are less than 15 guys that have done that in the history of the game. Only one other is not in the HoF, and he's not yet eligible (though he'll have a fight on his hands to get in IMHO) - 'gar Martinez.

Just a last thought.

chisoxfan64
01-30-2006, 04:23 PM
I`m sure that Frank is just like every other player to ever play the game. He wants to go in as a Cub.:rolleyes:

StockdaleForVeep
01-30-2006, 04:45 PM
Here's the thing - Frank was not just the best first basemen at his position for 10 years. He was the best hitter, most feared hitter in the league for ten years.

I also remember a time in which he and Ken Griffey Jr. were fighting for who was the most popular player in the game. If you reviewed Beckett magazines back then, every single month, Frank and/or Junior were voted #1 and #2 as the most popular player in the game - by fans/baseball card collectors.

He's had some issues lately - which is the way the press is - "what have you done for me lately?" However, if the press honstly evaluates the kind of player Frank was and the numbers that he averaged per 162 games - there are only 10 to 12 guys that hold a candle to Frank.

On the Molitor comment - he may have played other positions for the first 10 years of his career, however, it's the hitting in the second half of his career that earned him a spot in the Hall - as a DH.

Hell, i think it was 91 or 92, watch some classic sports games of seattle vs white sox, the announcers were talkin about griffey and thomas challenging roger marris' record

HotelWhiteSox
01-30-2006, 05:32 PM
http://www.halfwaytoconcord.com/wp-images/penguinslap.gif

fquaye149
01-30-2006, 06:49 PM
True, i dunno, call me a dark cloud

Now if frank would beat up an amputee....thatd be somethin to see

You realize the only way Frank could possibly go in as an A would be to, say, play 5 more years, avg about .350/40/120, win 2 or more MVP awards and perhaps a world championship.

Do you think that's going to happen?

Then he'll be going in as a Sox

Tragg
01-30-2006, 08:15 PM
Frank sure is a sensitive guy. He complains about his mistreatment to the Oakland paper. He says this nonsense about not participating in a WS celebration if he knew he wouldnt be back (You have a RING Frank; a RING).

I love him, he's the best hitter I've seen, but man, respectully work on your 500 and be nice.

Lip Man 1
01-30-2006, 09:08 PM
We may get an indication of how the voters are going to feel about Frank, when Edgar Martinez comes up for possible induction.

Talk about a DH, this guy may have played, may have....300 games in the field in his long career.

Lip

Tragg
01-30-2006, 09:15 PM
We may get an indication of how the voters are going to feel about Frank, when Edgar Martinez comes up for possible induction.

Talk about a DH, this guy may have played, may have....300 games in the field in his long career.

Lip

Except that Martinez really isn't a Hall of Fame level player. He's sort of that Baines level.

But I agree, if he's well-received that will bode well for Frank. If he isn't, I don't see that as a negative as Frank is a far superior hitter all the way around.

Hitmen77
01-30-2006, 09:28 PM
They changed the rules, IIRC. MLB now selects which hat gets worn. This is a non-issue.

Then how did Bruce Sutter get to select between Cardinals and Cubs? Is it that MLB selects only when a player has obviously been with a particular team for most of his career?

Bobby Thigpen
01-30-2006, 09:29 PM
1. I am serious about why anyone cares. Is any of your self worth of as a human being, or White Sox fan actually wrapped up in what Frank Thomas thinks about what hat he wears into the hall of fame? Personally I would take many more Series championships over ever seeing a Sox player inducted into the Hall of Fame. If Frank wants to throw a self pity party when or if he goes into the Hall, God love him. I won't lose an ounce of sleep.

2. I guess I pretty much over stated that I don't know if he'll get in, but I am dead serious about him not being a first ballotter. His numbers are excellent, but some of us need to take off the black and silver glasses for a moment. He won't get in on the first ballot because

1. He played for the Sox and other than 92-96 season no one really realizes the impact he had on the game.
2. He's not a media favorite, and they're the ones that vote on it.
3. He did play alot of games as a DH and the writers have openly stated their distate for DHs.
4. He is viewed as a selfish player outside of Sox fans and the organization. That usually doesn't help.
5. He is not very much of a popular player, outside of us Sox fans. He was very popular early in his career, but I'm sure many casual fans and writers may not realize he's still around.
6. The Sox won their only World Series of his career, essentially without him.

Ol' No. 2
01-30-2006, 09:33 PM
There are 14 players in major league history with over 400 home runs and a batting championship.

Eleven of them are in the hall including Billy Williams, Stan Musial and Lou Gehrig.

The only three who aren't is because they are not eligible yet....Frank Thomas, Barry Bonds and Gary Sheffield.

Frank has nothing to worry about. 400+ home runs AND a batting title is the ultimate example of power and batting eye.

Frank will go into the Hall of Fame and it doesn't matter if it is on the first ballot or not. And because of the rule changes he will go in wearing a White Sox cap.

LipAnd then there are those two MVP's. Only two 2-time MVP's are not in the HOF: Dale Murphy and Roger Maris. Add this to the other numbers and any nimrod that does not vote for Frank should be banned just on the grounds of general idiocy.

Ol' No. 2
01-30-2006, 09:48 PM
Then how did Bruce Sutter get to select between Cardinals and Cubs? Is it that MLB selects only when a player has obviously been with a particular team for most of his career?I think the player gets to select, but the HOF can overrule him in obvious situations, like with Boggs. With Sutter it could have gone either way, so they went with his wishes. It's inconceivable that they would accept anything other than a Sox cap for Frank.

Stoky44
01-30-2006, 09:58 PM
It's inconceivable that they would accept anything other than a Sox cap for Frank.

Is is inconceivable Frank plays with the A's until he is 45 years old, while averaging +.310Avg, +40Hrs, +110rbi, +100 walks?

Lip Man 1
01-30-2006, 11:39 PM
As I recall the HOF chose a Cardinals cap for Sutter because he was best associated with St. Louis winning the title in 82. He was on the mound for the final out. Even Sutter himself said that's how fans remember him most.

Lip

StockdaleForVeep
01-30-2006, 11:49 PM
1. I am serious about why anyone cares. Is any of your self worth of as a human being, or White Sox fan actually wrapped up in what Frank Thomas thinks about what hat he wears into the hall of fame? Personally I would take many more Series championships over ever seeing a Sox player inducted into the Hall of Fame. If Frank wants to throw a self pity party when or if he goes into the Hall, God love him. I won't lose an ounce of sleep.

2. I guess I pretty much over stated that I don't know if he'll get in, but I am dead serious about him not being a first ballotter. His numbers are excellent, but some of us need to take off the black and silver glasses for a moment. He won't get in on the first ballot because

1. He played for the Sox and other than 92-96 season no one really realizes the impact he had on the game.
2. He's not a media favorite, and they're the ones that vote on it.
3. He did play alot of games as a DH and the writers have openly stated their distate for DHs.
4. He is viewed as a selfish player outside of Sox fans and the organization. That usually doesn't help.
5. He is not very much of a popular player, outside of us Sox fans. He was very popular early in his career, but I'm sure many casual fans and writers may not realize he's still around.
6. The Sox won their only World Series of his career, essentially without him.

4. Playing on one leg is selfish?

mccombe_35
01-30-2006, 11:56 PM
One more thought that I wanted to throw in there:

AB OBP Slug
DH 3442 .402 .512
1B 3485 .453 .625

If you call Frank Thomas a DH, you're doing him an injustice. He played more than half of his games at first base - which is roughly seven years of service.

Not only that, but Frank Thomas would be another player to retire with a .300/.400/.500 Avg/OBP/Slg. There are less than 15 guys that have done that in the history of the game. Only one other is not in the HoF, and he's not yet eligible (though he'll have a fight on his hands to get in IMHO) - 'gar Martinez.

Just a last thought.

1st, if Frank makes the HOF there is no chance he would go in as anything but a white sox player.

2nd, I think he deserves to be 1st ballot, been following his whole career & it is a no brainer to me, but I am pretty sure he will not be, unless he has 2 - 3 more productive (25+ & 75+) years left. As others have pointed out, the voters have too many excuses to not vote for him.

3rd, the .300 / .400 / .500 thing is awesome, but there are a lot of active players that are also right there. Larry Walker, Manny, Giles, Bagwell, Sheff, Giambi, Berkman, Pujols, Bonds, Helton, Abreau, & Chipper are all either in that club or .005 away.

Still rootin' for the big hurt.........

TDog
01-31-2006, 12:23 AM
Except that Martinez really isn't a Hall of Fame level player. He's sort of that Baines level....

And Baines should be eventually be in the Hall of Fame.

mccombe_35
01-31-2006, 12:38 AM
And Baines should be eventually be in the Hall of Fame.

I hate to say it, but I don't even know if Baines will get the 5% of the vote to remain on the ballot another year. I thought Joe Carter & his career #s (396 HRs, 1445 RBIs, World Series heroics, 10 100+ RBI seasons would at least get him 5% to remain on the ballot...) the power game of the last 8 years or so has really hurt Baines chances imo

voodoochile
01-31-2006, 12:42 AM
1. I am serious about why anyone cares. Is any of your self worth of as a human being, or White Sox fan actually wrapped up in what Frank Thomas thinks about what hat he wears into the hall of fame? Personally I would take many more Series championships over ever seeing a Sox player inducted into the Hall of Fame. If Frank wants to throw a self pity party when or if he goes into the Hall, God love him. I won't lose an ounce of sleep.

I am not going to respond to the argument about whether Frank is or should be a first ballot HOF. We disagree, I think that will have to do.

I do wonder about the rest of it though. I mean why should we have our egos and self worth as human beings wrapped up in anything any athlete does on the field or off? I mean will one more kid be fed this Sunday if Pittsburgh wins the SB? Will anything change if Bettis has a 200 yard day? I mean why do we bother with this sports crap and fandom stuff at all? Really, it's beneath us. Tell you what, I'll talk to West Daver and PHG and see if we can just shut down WSI because honestly, it's a ****ing waste of our times and beneath us to actually even talk about anything that any of these self-agrandizing losers who get paid WAY too much ****ing money to play a children's game ever does again be that on the field or off...

Did that really need to be in teal?:rolleyes:

JB98
01-31-2006, 12:47 AM
Frank is clearly a HOF'er, and a strong case can be made he should be elected on the first ballot. But you know what might hurt him in that regard: The way his career is ending. Look at his last five years:

2001: Major injury, hardly played
2002: Subpar season
2003: Had a very strong year, almost an MVP year
2004: Major injury, didn't play second half
2005: Major injury, limited to 34 games

To get in on the first ballot, he might need another good year or two. Writers have short memories. Some have probably forgotten Frank's dominance in the 90s. Right now, Frank is viewed as an injury-prone, one-dimensional slugger. If he continues to trend downward, it's going to hurt his candidacy.

Nellie_Fox
01-31-2006, 12:55 AM
Frank will spend one, maybe two seasons with Oakland.
Another medical prognosticator. I'm amazed by how many people on WSI are able to see the future with such clarity.

jehosaphat
01-31-2006, 01:19 AM
And then there are those two MVP's. Only two 2-time MVP's are not in the HOF: Dale Murphy and Roger Maris. Add this to the other numbers and any nimrod that does not vote for Frank should be banned just on the grounds of general idiocy.

Dale Murphy - it seems like a case could be made for him. As I recall he was a pretty good fielder and a feared hitter in his prime. He had sort of a long, gradual decline as a hitter - but the 2 MVP years and the gold gloves should count for something. As for Roger Maris, I'd have put him in a long time ago.

Thomas does have better credentials than both Murphy and Maris because he was a better hitter over the long haul. Players should be judge in the context of the era in which they played, and for better or worse whether you like it or not, Thomas played in an era where the DH was a position. I don't understand the reasoning why a DH shouldn't get in - by definition, a DH does not need to be a complete player. It's like denying a relief pitcher because he doesn't have enough wins - completely immaterial to what the player was asked to do.

FarWestChicago
01-31-2006, 01:37 AM
Another medical prognosticator. I'm amazed by how many people on WSI are able to see the future with such clarity.This site is filled with geniuses, Nellie. Nobel Prizes are cheap. Just ask them. :redneck

IronFisk
01-31-2006, 02:22 AM
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a334/Violinski/hurrithread.jpg

Bobby Thigpen
01-31-2006, 08:56 AM
Voodoo- my tone of response about the self worth was in response to this general inferiority complex that apparently most of us have with the White Sox. Some people seem to view this possible decision of Frank's as if it is a personal attack against them. They seem to think that it is a very life threatening prospect that Frank won't go into the Hall as a Sox player. My point is that I don't really understand why people care. What are they going to do? Walk around and tell people with a great deal of pride that Frank Thomas is in the Hall of Fame and that they were fans of the team that he chose to go in with? It seems really pointless to me.

And I would agree with you that many people do get really too wrapped up in sports. I am a fan, but in no way does my life depend on whether the Sox/Bears win, or whether or not Frank Thomas makes the Hall of Fame. The Sox are just something I do to pass time that interests me. Frank not going in as a Sox player would not cause me to lose one ounce of energy.

ondafarm
01-31-2006, 11:04 AM
. . . It's inconceivable . . .

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

((Ignore if you don't know the movie.))

Ol' No. 2
01-31-2006, 11:16 AM
Dale Murphy - it seems like a case could be made for him. As I recall he was a pretty good fielder and a feared hitter in his prime. He had sort of a long, gradual decline as a hitter - but the 2 MVP years and the gold gloves should count for something. As for Roger Maris, I'd have put him in a long time ago.

Thomas does have better credentials than both Murphy and Maris because he was a better hitter over the long haul. Players should be judge in the context of the era in which they played, and for better or worse whether you like it or not, Thomas played in an era where the DH was a position. I don't understand the reasoning why a DH shouldn't get in - by definition, a DH does not need to be a complete player. It's like denying a relief pitcher because he doesn't have enough wins - completely immaterial to what the player was asked to do.I agree with you on Maris. Murphy...maybe.

The whole argument against the DH is stupid. There are lots of HOF players who were defensively mediocre (and that's charitable in some cases). Is it better to play a position badly than to be a DH? How is that helping your team?

santo=dorf
01-31-2006, 11:29 AM
Why is Ozzie Smith in the HOF? His offensive numbers are terrible. Is he a one dimensional player as well?

voodoochile
01-31-2006, 12:17 PM
Why is Ozzie Smith in the HOF? His offensive numbers are terrible. Is he a one dimensional player as well?

You can turn this argument around to an extreme...

Should we disqualify AL pitchers because they don't bat? :?:

tacosalbarojas
01-31-2006, 02:00 PM
Think Frank left on bad terms with Pat Dye when he emerged from the Auburn campus? Me neither. He goes in as an Auburn Tiger.

Handicaporowski
01-31-2006, 02:36 PM
You can turn this argument around to an extreme...

Should we disqualify AL pitchers because they don't bat? :?:

Don't give them any ideas.

voodoochile
01-31-2006, 02:37 PM
Don't give them any ideas.

So I guess Clemens is out and RJ too...:rolleyes:

thepaulbowski
01-31-2006, 02:43 PM
So I guess Clemens is out and RJ too...:rolleyes:


No, Clemens is in because he can throw a broken bat with good aim. :cool:

StockdaleForVeep
01-31-2006, 02:44 PM
So I guess Clemens is out and RJ too...:rolleyes:

Now comeon, we did see that lenky frame of RJ in the box a few times...lol
But i do think jim abbott has a better BA than him tho

voodoochile
01-31-2006, 02:49 PM
Now comeon, we did see that lenky frame of RJ in the box a few times...lol
But i do think jim abbott has a better BA than him tho

Ah, but well over half of both of their careers were spent in the AL where they didn't have to bat. I mean Frank at least has over half his career AB while playing 1B (currently - that will change this season).