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brewcrew/chisox
01-26-2006, 02:46 PM
According to the most current Sports Illustrated, Paul Taliabue stated that baseball "is about as exciting as standing in line at the supermarket. Baseball doesn't test anything but your ability to withstand boredom."

Hey, Commish. I like football, but let's not get carried away here. Constant breaks in play, commercials every 3 minutes, guys standing around the field waiting for the officials to get their act together.....

15 yard penalty called for unnecessarily ripping on America's pastime.
:mad:

HotelWhiteSox
01-26-2006, 02:55 PM
See I hate that, someone who has one preference or opinion trying to pass it off as a fact or a universal opinion. People who think baseball is boring just don't understand the game, plain and simple. I personally hate the NFL/football. The highlights make it look fun, but I can't sit through the whole thing on TV. The slow rushing plays, broken plays, those riveting moments between reviews, and all those penalties. Every once in a while there is a flash, but yeah, that's my opinion. Also, I'd much rather get hit with a bunch of pads on than get hit with a Major Leaguer's fastball (I guess unless I'm Barry Bonds and am wearing armour).

SoxFan76
01-26-2006, 03:08 PM
See I hate that, someone who has one preference or opinion trying to pass it off as a fact or a universal opinion. People who think baseball is boring just don't understand the game, plain and simple. I personally hate the NFL/football. The highlights make it look fun, but I can't sit through the whole thing on TV. The slow rushing plays, broken plays, those riveting moments between reviews, and all those penalties. Every once in a while there is a flash, but yeah, that's my opinion. Also, I'd much rather get hit with a bunch of pads on than get hit with a Major Leaguer's fastball (I guess unless I'm Barry Bonds and am wearing armour).

I'm with you, football bores me. All the breaks in the action, all the commercial breaks, and the commercial breaks are sooo long. All the penalties, I mean come on now.

Nellie_Fox
01-26-2006, 03:10 PM
NFL is riveting. The slow walks back after the five second play, the standing around with hands on hips waiting for everyone to get back on their respective sides of the line of scrimmage, the huddles, and let us not ever forget "running out the clock" toward the end of the game and at the half. A quarterback taking a knee is one of the most exciting moments in sports!

SoxFan76
01-26-2006, 03:10 PM
NFL is riveting. The slow walks back after the five second play, the standing around with hands on hips waiting for everyone to get back on their respective sides of the line of scrimmage, the huddles, and let us not ever forget "running out the clock" toward the end of the game and at the half. A quarterback taking a knee is one of the most exciting moments in sports!

Best part about baseball: no clock.

chaerulez
01-26-2006, 03:14 PM
I heard this about a week ago and I'm suprised it's not a bigger news issue. Oh wait, ESPN won't talk about it because they won't want to upset the NFL.

ChiSoxRowand
01-26-2006, 03:18 PM
I heard this about a week ago and I'm suprised it's not a bigger news issue. Oh wait, ESPN won't talk about it because they won't want to upset the NFL.

Exactly. Whenever there are steroid stories in the NFL it's never a big deal.

SOXintheBURGH
01-26-2006, 03:37 PM
Now you guys know how soccer fans feel.

Palehose13
01-26-2006, 03:45 PM
Now you guys know how soccer fans feel.

Pffft...soccer fans deserve it. :cool:

HotelWhiteSox
01-26-2006, 03:55 PM
Exactly. Whenever there are steroid stories in the NFL it's never a big deal.

Seriously. Wasn't there the report that like the whole Panthers Superbowl team was on steroids? Even the doctor admitted it. I didn't hear much about it on ESPN, just on Sporting News Radio and Costas HBO show where he interviewed the doctor and admitted it

doublem23
01-26-2006, 03:59 PM
Obviously Tagliabue didn't watch the Bears-Bucs game this year, in which the last 30 minutes of real time consisted of a play lasting 10 seconds, followed by 5 minutes of commercials, followed by someone calling a timeout, followed by 5 minutes of commercials, followed by one play followed by a timeout, followed by 5 minutes of commercials, etc.

Baseball is only dull to dull minds.
- Red Barber

Palehose13
01-26-2006, 04:02 PM
Baseball is only dull to dull minds.
- Red Barber

That is a great quote.

The Racehorse
01-26-2006, 04:04 PM
Baseball is only dull to dull minds.
- Red Barber

:cool:

Jerko
01-26-2006, 04:05 PM
I love both sports but Tags should concentrate on his CBA and quit worrying about the excitement levels of baseball games.

dcb56
01-26-2006, 04:11 PM
NFL is riveting. The slow walks back after the five second play, the standing around with hands on hips waiting for everyone to get back on their respective sides of the line of scrimmage, the huddles, and let us not ever forget "running out the clock" toward the end of the game and at the half. A quarterback taking a knee is one of the most exciting moments in sports!

Don't forget how exciting it is to watch the entire outcome of a game hinge on the decision a middle aged guy in a zebra outfit makes after peering at a television screen for 10 minutes.
http://images.sportsnetwork.com/football/nfl/allsport/instant_replay.jpg

caulfield12
01-26-2006, 04:24 PM
According to the most current Sports Illustrated, Paul Taliabue stated that baseball "is about as exciting as standing in line at the supermarket. Baseball doesn't test anything but your ability to withstand boredom."

Hey, Commish. I like football, but let's not get carried away here. Constant breaks in play, commercials every 3 minutes, guys standing around the field waiting for the officials to get their act together.....

15 yard penalty called for unnecessarily ripping on America's pastime.
:mad:

Just wait until the ratings for this Super Bowl come in. They have to be thanking their lucky stars it wasnt the Panthers. There are no longer any huge stars in the NFL, and the Pats dynasty is over, not that it was ever very exciting either.

soxinem1
01-26-2006, 04:41 PM
I'm with you, football bores me. All the breaks in the action, all the commercial breaks, and the commercial breaks are sooo long. All the penalties, I mean come on now.

I agree 100%. Next time you watch a FB game, time how much time is given to over-analysis, play drawing on the TV screen, play recaping, talking about play recaping, challenges, acknowledging some ledgend in the booth 16 times during the broadcast, etc. This outnumbers actual game time nearly 3-1.

And they say baseball is tough to watch? A pitch is thrown every 10-13 seconds, not 1-2 minutes.

And old Paul should talk, he's personally about as exciting as watching paint dry....

caulfield12
01-26-2006, 04:44 PM
I agree 100%. Next time you watch a FB game, time how much time is given to over-analysis, play drawing on the TV screen, play recaping, talking about play recaping, challenges, acknowledging some ledgend in the booth 16 times during the broadcast, etc. This outnumbers actual game time nearly 3-1.

And they say baseball is tough to watch? A pitch is thrown every 10-13 seconds, not 1-2 minutes.

And old Paul should talk, he's personally about as exciting as watching paint dry....

The average actual playing time of an NFL game is normally 3-4 minutes.

chisoxfan64
01-26-2006, 04:45 PM
:bong:
Ok Paul, put it down, you had enough.

LuvSox
01-26-2006, 04:47 PM
Maybe a high & tight fastball would be exciting for him.

bigfoot
01-26-2006, 05:00 PM
:tongue: Next I'll be told that Tags actually knows how standing in a grocery line really feels.:tongue:

PKalltheway
01-26-2006, 05:29 PM
Hey, you guys, we can finally let Tagliabue off the hook now. I just got a new issue of SI today. He has a little section in the most recent letter to the editor stating that he "often shares an anecdote about quitting his law firm's softball team in the 1970s because they stuck him in right field." That was when the "supermarket" quote came up. It was just another dumb mistake by the media, trying to make a controversy out of nothing. Tagliabue also states how he is still a fan of baseball and how he still has his Brooklyn Dodgers yearbooks from the 1950s. We can let him off the hook now.:cool:

DumpJerry
01-26-2006, 05:39 PM
Hey, you guys, we can finally let Tagliabue off the hook now. I just got a new issue of SI today. He has a little section in the most recent letter to the editor stating that he "often shares an anecdote about quitting his law firm's softball team in the 1970s because they stuck him in right field." That was when the "supermarket" quote came up. It was just another dumb mistake by the media, trying to make a controversy out of nothing. Tagliabue also states how he is still a fan of baseball and how he still has his Brooklyn Dodgers yearbooks from the 1950s. We can let him off the hook now.:cool:
Ok,ok. I won't do the post I was going to do. "Touchdown!" 5 minute commercial break. "Point after is good!" Five minute commercial break. "Kickoff downed on the 20 yard line!" Five minunte commercial break. "Incomplete pass with flag." 3 minutes to mete out justice for the penalty......

You get the picture. Not for the ADHD crowd.

Whitesox029
01-26-2006, 05:42 PM
Obviously Tagliabue didn't watch the Bears-Bucs game this year, in which the last 30 minutes of real time consisted of a play lasting 10 seconds, followed by 5 minutes of commercials, followed by someone calling a timeout, followed by 5 minutes of commercials, followed by one play followed by a timeout, followed by 5 minutes of commercials, etc.

Baseball is only dull to dull minds.
- Red Barber
That's AIM profile material, that is.

santo=dorf
01-26-2006, 05:42 PM
Don't forget how exciting it is to watch the entire outcome of a game hinge on the decision a middle aged guy in a zebra outfit makes after peering at a television screen for 10 minutes.
http://images.sportsnetwork.com/football/nfl/allsport/instant_replay.jpg

.....and sometimes after that complete waste of time, the refs still get it wrong.

PKalltheway
01-26-2006, 05:44 PM
Yeah, just to clarify, he said that "playing right field was about as boring as standing in line in a supermarket because not many balls were hit that way."

Mohoney
01-26-2006, 05:50 PM
After those two absolute duds last Sunday, I would be doing damage control, too.

brewcrew/chisox
01-26-2006, 06:11 PM
Yeah, just to clarify, he said that "playing right field was about as boring as standing in line in a supermarket because not many balls were hit that way."

Damn, now count me as another person duped by the credible sports media out there.:angry:

SouthSide_HitMen
01-26-2006, 06:18 PM
"Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona." George F. Will

"Baseball is the only field of endeavor where a man can succeed three times out of ten and be considered a good performer." Ted Williams

"I don't care how long you've been around, you'll never see it all." Bob Lemon

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." Earl Weaver

"Baseball is drama with an endless run and an ever-changing cast." Joe Garagiola

"That's the true harbinger of sping, not crocuses or swallows returning to Capistrano, but the sound of a bat on a ball." Bill Veeck

"This is a game to be savored, not gulped. There's time to discuss everything between pitches or between innings." Bill Veeck

"The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love." Bryant Gumbel

"Baseball? It's just a game -- as simple as a ball and a bat. Yet, as complex as the American spirit it symbolizes. It's a sport, business -- and sometimes even religion." Ernie Harwell

IlliniSox4Life
01-26-2006, 06:31 PM
I like football, but as someone said, anyone who doesn't like baseball doesn't understand it. There's a lot more to it than standing out there and waiting to catch a ball.

There's nothing more exciting in sports than a play at the plate or a catch at the wall.

PKalltheway
01-26-2006, 06:34 PM
"I don't care how long you've been around, you'll never see it all." Bob Lemon

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." Earl Weaver


Those are my two favorite quotes!:cool:

Fenway
01-26-2006, 06:49 PM
Don't forget how exciting it is to watch the entire outcome of a game hinge on the decision a middle aged guy in a zebra outfit makes after peering at a television screen for 10 minutes.
http://images.sportsnetwork.com/football/nfl/allsport/instant_replay.jpg

and then gets the call wrong :?:

But one thing the NFL did right ( thank Pete Rozelle for this ) They make sure the Super Bowl starts early enough in the east that people can see the outcome of the game at a decent hour ( and parents will let their children stay up and watch )

I sincerely believe that MLB has hurt themselves with the last two generations by having World Series games ending after Midnight. There is NO EXCUSE for not playing World Series games on Saturday or Sunday in the late afternoon. When NBC had the baseball contract and before the switch to all 7 games being at night, the NFL would adjust the schedule so all of NBC's games started at 1 PM Eastern.

Dick Allen
01-26-2006, 07:01 PM
As has been pointed out in this thread, and I thought it was just me, but it does seem that the commercials have gotten much worse. Commercials after a kickoff drive me ******* nuts. There were rumblings a few years back about the NFL going to pay TV. It would almost be worth it not to have to tolerate all the commercials. And another thing about the NFL - the entertaining strutting and hot-dogging after someone makes a tackle for a short gain or loss. The rules committee needs to do something about this.

PKalltheway
01-26-2006, 07:06 PM
I sincerely believe that MLB has hurt themselves with the last two generations by having World Series games ending after Midnight. There is NO EXCUSE for not playing World Series games on Saturday or Sunday in the late afternoon. When NBC had the baseball contract and before the switch to all 7 games being at night, the NFL would adjust the schedule so all of NBC's games started at 1 PM Eastern.
I remember my parents getting mad at me for staying up and watching the 1999 ALCS between the Yankees and Red Sox when I was in sixth grade. It was well past midnight and the made me go to bed (This was when I still thought that Yankees vs. Red Sox games were exciting).:redface:

Hendu
01-26-2006, 07:38 PM
There's nothing more exciting in sports than a play at the plate or a catch at the wall.

And there's no moment as full of tension in any sport as the 9th inning of a 1-run game with a RISP.

I like football, but it is definitely not as exciting as baseball. Even the players don't seem to care as much...you'd think that they would act a little more excited after a big win or disappointed after a heart-breaking loss.

I also concur that there are way too many commercials.

1951Campbell
01-26-2006, 11:09 PM
According to the most current Sports Illustrated, Paul Taliabue stated that baseball "is about as exciting as standing in line at the supermarket. Baseball doesn't test anything but your ability to withstand boredom."

Hey, Commish. I like football, but let's not get carried away here. Constant breaks in play, commercials every 3 minutes, guys standing around the field waiting for the officials to get their act together.....

15 yard penalty called for unnecessarily ripping on America's pastime.
:mad:

Baseball and football are equally intersting, for different reasons.

Can't we all get along?

CLR01
01-27-2006, 12:06 AM
Just wait until the ratings for this Super Bowl come in. They have to be thanking their lucky stars it wasnt the Panthers. There are no longer any huge stars in the NFL, and the Pats dynasty is over, not that it was ever very exciting either.

I'm sure when he sees the 40+ share the game is going to get he will be devastated.

TheOldRoman
01-27-2006, 01:06 AM
But one thing the NFL did right ( thank Pete Rozelle for this ) They make sure the Super Bowl starts early enough in the east that people can see the outcome of the game at a decent hour ( and parents will let their children stay up and watch )
Well, that is changing. The NFL keeps on pushing the time back more and more every year. The past few years the game was scheduled to kick off at something like 5:17, but they didn't kick off until 5:50, and then the game took 4 hours. The NFL is making the same mistakes baseball has. Within the next 20 years the start of the Superbowl will be 8 central.

I agree about the World Series. The games should be earlier. It is ridiculous that the games started around 8 this year. On MLB.com and Fox's website, it said 7:05 for first pitch. Well, if you tuned in at 7, you would have to watch 50 minutes of pregame. Only sports radio gave the real first pitch time (7:50). This needs to stop, but the only way it will change is if east coasters start bitching.

TDog
01-27-2006, 01:22 AM
What an idiotic comment. I find the National Forensic League more interesting than that football thing. Granted, I haven't seen a football game since the 1980s. Then football put me to sleep, and I seem to need more sleep these days. Actually, Super Bowl Sunday is one day I'm delighted not to have television.

As if last year's World Series needed a contrived controversial halftime show to make headlines.

Soxfanspcu11
01-27-2006, 01:27 AM
Who cares what this guy thinks?? He is the commissioner of the NFL, who gives a ****?!?!

Would you guys be upset if David Stern insulted your cooking?? Well maybe, but who cares what this guy thinks, seriously, it's irrelevant.

Baseball is the greatest game in the world and baseball season is the only time of the year that I actually "enjoy" my life, the rest of the time, everything seems like work and is painfully boring. Chicago area winters don't exactly help either.

Nellie_Fox
01-27-2006, 01:38 AM
Every year when baseball season ends, I always feel like a little piece of me dies. This is the first year in my life that I didn't experience a deep sadness at the end of the last game (how could I?) but I still felt an emptiness once the euphoria subsided.

I watch football (more college than NFL) and I enjoy hockey a lot, but I'm really waiting for the day when "pitchers and catchers report."

I've always thought that the fact that baseball doesn't have a clock makes it the most honest sport. Both teams get their 27 outs to see what they can do, and there is nothing the other team can do to take that away from them.

Sox-o-matic
01-27-2006, 04:42 AM
A football season is 16 games long plus the postseason ad the games are usually on Sundays when there really isn't any other alternative programming. It is a high impact sport and there is always that threat of injury, so I think that football doesn't necessarily need to be understood very well to be enjoyed.

Baseball is totally differnet. I believe that in order to really appreciate baseball you have to live it, because the more you play the more you learn and the more you grow to love it. As a kid I would go crazy in winter because there was no baseball. I'd be outside in February playing catch with a friend in the snow because spring could never come soon enough. When the snow finally melted I started playing again, both in the leagues and around the neighborhood, and didn't quit until the sun stopped shining and the snow started falling again. I would imagine that most of us on this board would tell similar stories because we were raised on baseball and we love baseball. If you play as a child, and you learn from family and friends and coaches and televised games, you begin to see just how complex the game is.

I know that football is a thinking man's game and is called 'human chess' instead of 'human cluster****' for a reason, but I just can't see it being as complex as baseball. Football is decided by yards while baseball is decided by fractions of an inch in almost every play. Baseball is the only sport where a guy can use his wits to defeat an opponent when he's not as his best. If a QB is having a ****ty day he throws picks, but a pitcher like Greg Maddux can forge an entire career out of outsmarting hitters when he doesn't have his stuff. There are soooo many reasons I could give in defense of baseball but there's no use preaching to the choir.

Anyway, aside from the tangent, even though I know Tagliabue didn't mean anything by his remarks, I think this discussion is still relevant because there are a lot of people out there that don't understand baseball and never will. As a baseball fan you could sit there and explain to a nonfan all the little things going on but IMO the only way to understand it is to experience it, so there's no real use in having this type of discussion with an adult when you could be teaching a kid how to play.

Viva Medias B's
01-27-2006, 09:31 AM
Don't forget how exciting it is to watch the entire outcome of a game hinge on the decision a middle aged guy in a zebra outfit makes after peering at a television screen for 10 minutes.
http://images.sportsnetwork.com/football/nfl/allsport/instant_replay.jpg

That replay monitor looks like it's trying to eat Ed Hochuli.

Meanwhile, Paul Tagliabue should thank his lucky arse for the existance of sports betting. Nothing more than this fuels the NFL's popularity. Billions of dollars will be bet (legally and otherwise) on Super Bowl Extra Large. Without betting, college football would still be more popular than the NFL.

For Tagliabue to say something like this really insults me. Talk about the NFL's arrogance! My god! I remember two years ago when Mike Ditka did a Levitra commercial that, I think, only aired once during the Super Bowl XXXVIII. The Levitra ad really insulted me, and I posted (as "¡Viva Mágglio!") my rant (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=28918&highlight=Levitra) against it.

EDIT: Okay, so SI misquoted Tags. But I still think the NFL is arrogant.

TDog
01-27-2006, 10:47 AM
The NFL has always taken itself too seriously. I remember as a small child being frightened by an NFL promotional film on the birth of the Super Bowl. There was nothing fun about the music or the narration. I thought it was leading up to people getting killed.

1951Campbell
01-27-2006, 08:46 PM
I agree about the World Series. The games should be earlier. It is ridiculous that the games started around 8 this year. On MLB.com and Fox's website, it said 7:05 for first pitch. Well, if you tuned in at 7, you would have to watch 50 minutes of pregame. Only sports radio gave the real first pitch time (7:50). This needs to stop, but the only way it will change is if east coasters start bitching.

We've been bitching for years, MLB doesn't give a ****.

buehrle4cy05
01-27-2006, 09:01 PM
I like football, but I've always felt like they are the arrogant jock in the land of professional sports. This just proves it.

Frater Perdurabo
01-28-2006, 12:35 AM
And another thing about the NFL - the entertaining strutting and hot-dogging after someone makes a tackle for a short gain or loss.

That part is my favorite, too. :kukoo:

Lip Man 1
01-28-2006, 02:52 AM
In this week's S.I. there is a letter from Tags explaining his remarks (page 17)

Lip

FarWestChicago
01-28-2006, 02:58 AM
I agree about the World Series. The games should be earlier. It is ridiculous that the games started around 8 this year. FYI, California has the 5th or 6th largest GDP in the world and 35 million people. Starting games while the left coast is still at work probably isn't the best financial move any league could make.

CLR01
01-28-2006, 03:00 AM
FYI, California has the 5th or 6th largest GDP in the world and 35 million people. Starting games while the left coast is still at work probably isn't the best financial move any league could make.


Don't go and ruin a good thing with facts.

TheOldRoman
01-28-2006, 03:11 AM
Don't go and ruin a good thing with facts. :rolleyes:
It's damned if you do, damned if you don't. As Fenway said, many on the east coast are not pleased with the games starting at around 9. I don't like the games starting at 8 CT because I am used to 7:05 starts, but it is only a minor inconvinience for me. I know how populous California is, but I imagine the east coast still has a lot more people than the west coast, so the games should start earlier. Either way, not everyone will be pleased.

RadioheadRocks
01-28-2006, 03:22 AM
In this week's S.I. there is a letter from Tags explaining his remarks (page 17)

Lip

IMHO, I think if this quote was merely left in the body of the story most readers would probably have glossed right over it and not given it a second thought. However the editors chose to highlight that quote in big bold letters inside a picture box and presto... instant fireworks!

CLR01
01-28-2006, 03:40 AM
:rolleyes:
It's damned if you do, damned if you don't. As Fenway said, many on the east coast are not pleased with the games starting at around 9. I don't like the games starting at 8 CT because I am used to 7:05 starts, but it is only a minor inconvinience for me. I know how populous California is, but I imagine the east coast still has a lot more people than the west coast, so the games should start earlier. Either way, not everyone will be pleased.

Yeah the hell with the 50 million+ people that live in the mountain and pacific time zones. If they want to see the game they should take time off of work. They should know by now the world revolves around New York. Perhaps a 7:30 start time would be the best for everyone.

TheOldRoman
01-28-2006, 03:58 AM
Yeah the hell with the 50 million+ people that live in the mountain and pacific time zones. If they want to see the game they should take time off of work. They should know by now the world revolves around New York. Perhaps a 7:30 start time would be the best for everyone.
Well, the mountain timezone wouldn't really be hurt that much. I understand that it is hard for the west coast people to be home at 5 for the start of games, but 6 in the mountain timezone shouldn't be a problem. It isn't about "screw you guys, we have to please NY", because no matter what they decide, some people won't be pleased. I was just saying, they might be losing move viewers if they picked the west coast over east because there are more people in the eastern timezone.

CLR01
01-28-2006, 04:11 AM
Well, the mountain timezone wouldn't really be hurt that much. I understand that it is hard for the west coast people to be home at 5 for the start of games, but 6 in the mountain timezone shouldn't be a problem. It isn't about "screw you guys, we have to please NY", because no matter what they decide, some people won't be pleased. I was just saying, they might be losing move viewers if they picked the west coast over east because there are more people in the eastern timezone.


You are right, it is about getting the most money from the advertisers. Cutting off the west coast audience, or more specifically the 2nd largest market in the country, for an hour +/- is not the way to do that. Thats what it comes down to.

Mohoney
01-28-2006, 04:19 AM
What if the west coast had a 2 hour tape delay? That way, everybody's happy.

CLR01
01-28-2006, 04:26 AM
What if the west coast had a 2 hour tape delay? That way, everybody's happy.


Twenty years ago that may have been a possibility but in todays world of instant information why tune into to see a game that is more than half over when you can jump on the net to see the score realtime? You would still get some people that would watch but nowhere close to the numbers you would have live.

PaleHoseGeorge
01-28-2006, 10:04 AM
The NFL is fat. Tagliabue and his pals are rolling in money. They aren't hungry in the least, and this arrogant comment only underscores how invulnerable they believe their grip on America's attention to be.

I used to build my entire Sundays around the NFL back in the 70's and 80's. However the endless commercial breaks, the interminable delays in the action, and the ridiculous levels of showboating on the field turned me off long ago. I haven't willingly sat through an entire NFL game in at least 10 years.

We laugh about those silly upstart leagues; the WFL, USFL, and most recently the XFL; but they truly helped the NFL overcome its worse (pronounced "boring") aspects. Nearly all the positive rule changes can be traced to these upstarts forcing the Lord Gods at the NFL to rethink what a pile of **** their own game had turned into.

I hope the Arena League goes outdoors and starts going nose to nose with the NFL. Competitive threats are the only thing Tagliabue and the NFL barnicles understand.

Fenway
01-28-2006, 10:26 AM
gambling drives the NFL and has since the early 70's.
(also drives March Madness)

Even in baseball mad Boston the Patriots always get higher ratings but that is because the NFL is once a week event television that people plan their weekends around.

The NFL has to be cautious. Too many players are running into trouble with the law, showboating has turned fans off as well. The Vikings owned Minnesota but this past year has tarnished the franchise. The NBA is also facing many of these issues.

But as long as the TV networks keep running to the NFL with $$$$ not much will change. NBC said they would never come back to football, but first chance they had to get back in they grabbed it.

Steelrod
01-28-2006, 11:10 AM
Best part about baseball: no clock.
Nope!
The best thing about baseball...
It's NOT Football!!!

SouthSide_HitMen
01-28-2006, 12:27 PM
FYI, California has the 5th or 6th largest GDP in the world and 35 million people. Starting games while the left coast is still at work probably isn't the best financial move any league could make.

I agree with this for weeknight games but they should move the weekend playoff games to an earlier hour (start between 4 - 7 EDT). Baseball games should end on a weekend before SNL ends or Monday morning arrives. Four of seven World Series games are weekend games.

Last year, baseball was so weak they allowed Fox to bitch slap the Yankees and Anaheim into the ridiculous time slot on Sunday evening, knowing a Game 5 would be played a few hours after the players landed in California.

If you present your championship product as inferior to the second half of a Notre Dame vs. Navy game or Week 7 & 8 of the NFL season the general public will think it is an afterthought. Have the weekend pregame start at 5 Eastern and the game start 1 hour after (with the introductions, anthem, ceremonies, etc. taking place during this hour). In summary baseball (Bud Selig) should have a pair and have the same fight for proper product placement as they do against taxpayers extorting new stadiums.

SOecks
01-28-2006, 09:52 PM
You know what drives me crazy about the NFL lately has become something goofy that all the announcers seem to do. Has anyone else noticed this, or is it just me. Here's an example...

Announcer: You talk about a guy who brings his A game every sunday, this is him. (referencing Urlacher for example)

Football announcers ALWAYS start their sentences with "You talk about" and it drives me insane. If you have something to say, just SAY IT. Just say "Urlacher brings his A game every Sunday". Actually this would make a good drinking game for the Super Bowl. Drink one every time an announcer says that but make sure you have a designated driver because you're going to be sloshed by the end of the game. Maybe I'm just crazy though...

RadioheadRocks
01-28-2006, 10:01 PM
Football announcers ALWAYS start their sentences with "You talk about" and it drives me insane.

My guess is they probably listen to a little too much Toby Keith and it evidently got caught up in their vocabulary. :D:

Chisox1500
01-28-2006, 10:01 PM
Baseball is on everyday - that's why it's the best sport. There are no off days - it's there to make you forget about life every summer every night for three hours. Nothing else makes life so liveable.

bigfoot
01-29-2006, 01:41 AM
My guess is they probably listen to a little too much Toby Keith and it evidently got caught up in their vocabulary. :D:

Rather reminicent of Jack Brickhouse's use of the intro-phrase: "Guys like"......"On the line the Bears have guys like, O'Bradovich, Atkins, Evey and Murphy." I don't know who they really were, but they seemed a LOT like the names JB mentioned. I know, Jack is beloved in Chicago, but that was his tag-line.

kevin57
01-29-2006, 08:23 AM
I'm surprised that PT made this kind of a remark. He's been very, very good in the PR department and at being an excellent administrator of sports. The NFL of all major professional sports is run the best.

That said, he is of course way off in his comments. Baseball is a "thinking man's" game. On any particular pitch on any particular night, at least a half-dozen scenarios can play out. That's another aspect I loved about Ozzie; he actually did them all a couple of times during the year (e.g., stealing home). :smile:

SOXSINCE'70
01-29-2006, 10:50 AM
Football bores me.
The NBA?? Borrrr-ing.
The NHL?? Do they still have a franchise in Chicago??
Please ,God,let ST come soon.Baseball is the greatest game!!
At least in my world it is.

SOXSINCE'70
01-29-2006, 10:54 AM
Baseball is on everyday - that's why it's the best sport. There are no off days .

There ARE a few off days here and there,
but far fewer than any other sport.

1951Campbell
01-29-2006, 01:57 PM
FYI, California has the 5th or 6th largest GDP in the world and 35 million people. Starting games while the left coast is still at work probably isn't the best financial move any league could make.

That's true, but there's waaay more people in the eastern time zone.

1951Campbell
01-29-2006, 02:03 PM
Yeah the hell with the 50 million+ people that live in the mountain and pacific time zones. If they want to see the game they should take time off of work. They should know by now the world revolves around New York. Perhaps a 7:30 start time would be the best for everyone.

Eastern time zone: 49% of US pop
Central: 29% of US pop
Mountain: 6% of US pop
Pacific: 16% of US pop

I don't like the New York-centric tilt of media in this country either, but people in Detroit, Atlanta, Cleveland, etc. don't want to stay up to 1:00AM to watch sports either.

FarWestChicago
01-29-2006, 03:06 PM
That's true, but there's waaay more people in the eastern time zone.You missed the part about GDP. Money counts more than population.

Fenway
01-29-2006, 03:39 PM
FYI, California has the 5th or 6th largest GDP in the world and 35 million people. Starting games while the left coast is still at work probably isn't the best financial move any league could make.

But California has been dealing with games starting at 4 or 4:30 from back east since baseball moved there in 1958. So they may miss the first 3 innings, but they will be watching the END of the game. Forget about the kids, I know many hard core baseball fans that had trouble staying awake when the games went past Midnight.

In 2003 the Red Sox and A's had a PLAYOFF game that ended at 2:45 AM in the east. That is insanity.

Wsoxmike59
01-29-2006, 04:13 PM
Tom Boswell did this list about 20 years ago. Just substitute some of the older names on this list with some of the games current stars and this list is as viable today as it was when it was written.

100 Reasons Baseball is BETTER than football.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/legendary/libvf100.shtml

Fenway
01-29-2006, 04:37 PM
Tom Boswell did this list about 20 years ago. Just substitute some of the older names on this list with some of the games current stars and this list is as viable today as it was when it was written.

100 Reasons Baseball is BETTER than football.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/legendary/libvf100.shtml

George Carlin got it even better


http://www.baseball-almanac.com/humor7.shtml
Baseball is played on a diamond, in a park.The baseball park!
Football is played on a gridiron, in a stadium, sometimes called Soldier Field or War Memorial Stadium.

Baseball begins in the spring, the season of new life.
Football begins in the fall, when everything's dying

In football the object is for the quarterback, also known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his receivers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! - I hope I'll be safe at home!

FarWestChicago
01-29-2006, 06:34 PM
But California has been dealing with games starting at 4 or 4:30 from back east since baseball moved there in 1958. So they may miss the first 3 innings, but they will be watching the END of the game. Forget about the kids, I know many hard core baseball fans that had trouble staying awake when the games went past Midnight.

In 2003 the Red Sox and A's had a PLAYOFF game that ended at 2:45 AM in the east. That is insanity.:whiner: Move west if you can't hang. :neener:

1951Campbell
01-29-2006, 08:38 PM
You missed the part about GDP. Money counts more than population.

:dunno:

Somehow I'd imagine that the 140,000,000 people in the eastern time zone generate more to the GDP than the 35,000,000 in Cali.

FarWestChicago
01-29-2006, 08:59 PM
Somehow I'd imagine that the 140,000,000 people in the eastern time zone generate more to the GDP than the 35,000,000 in Cali.It's a lot closer than you think (I guess that would shock you and ESPN :o:). It's way closer than the population. And the west is growing. There is a world outside of your time zone, and it shouldn't be ignored. And I will still believe that after I join your time zone later this week.

GSP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_state_product)

itsnotrequired
01-29-2006, 09:21 PM
It's a lot closer than you think (I guess that would shock you and ESPN :o:). It's way closer than the population. And the west is growing. There is a world outside of your time zone, and it shouldn't be ignored. And I will still believe that after I join your time zone later this week.

GSP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_state_product)

Wow, I'm surprised Wisconsin is in the Top 20.

samram
01-29-2006, 09:32 PM
You know what drives me crazy about the NFL lately has become something goofy that all the announcers seem to do. Has anyone else noticed this, or is it just me. Here's an example...

Announcer: You talk about a guy who brings his A game every sunday, this is him. (referencing Urlacher for example)

Football announcers ALWAYS start their sentences with "You talk about" and it drives me insane. If you have something to say, just SAY IT. Just say "Urlacher brings his A game every Sunday". Actually this would make a good drinking game for the Super Bowl. Drink one every time an announcer says that but make sure you have a designated driver because you're going to be sloshed by the end of the game. Maybe I'm just crazy though...




What drives me crazy about people involved with the NFL is they have this undying need to say the word "football" as if we all must be reminded that, yes, they are still talking about football. When the Steelers play the Seahawks (oh boy, I can't wait), I think we can all agree that the game will be played with a football. However, all the talking heads will still say the teams "have to run the football" or "these football teams want respect" or "this guy is a good football player" or "this guy is the best football player on the football field and he can run the football and get his football team some respect." God damnit, we get it.

1951Campbell
01-29-2006, 10:24 PM
It's a lot closer than you think (I guess that would shock you and ESPN :o:). It's way closer than the population. And the west is growing. There is a world outside of your time zone, and it shouldn't be ignored. And I will still believe that after I join your time zone later this week.

GSP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_state_product)

Oh, come on be nice! :D: I've lived in three times zones now, I'm just saying that by population and GSP (which I guess correlates to ad revenue)the eastern time zone is the 800 lb. gorilla. Looking at your link, if you take the top 10, the states in EST more than double California, that's all.

FarWestChicago
01-29-2006, 10:47 PM
Oh, come on be nice! :D: I've lived in three times zones now, I'm just saying that by population and GSP (which I guess correlates to ad revenue)the eastern time zone is the 800 lb. gorilla. Looking at your link, if you take the top 10, the states in EST more than double California, that's all.Your beloved Northeast - $2,448,565 million

West Coast - $1,931,729 million

You may dismiss 2 trillion of GSP as nothing, but that's larger than all but a few countries. It's a big market. Obviously somebody in the entertainment industry agress since games don't start at 2pm out here like they would if you had your choice. :smile:

SouthSide_HitMen
01-29-2006, 10:55 PM
Your beloved Northeast - $2,448,565 million

West Coast - $1,931,729 million

You may dismiss 2 trillion of GSP as nothing, but that's larger than all but a few countries. It's a big market. Obviously somebody in the entertainment industry agress since games don't start at 2pm out here like they would if you had your choice. :smile:

They tried MNF an hour early one year (7:30 kickoff EDT / 4:30 PDT) and promptly switched back.

There really should be no debate.

Weeknight World Series - 8 EDT / 5 PDT (Start the game 10 - 15 minutes after the hour)
Weekend World Series - 6 or 7 EDT / 3 or 4 PDT

1951Campbell
01-29-2006, 11:01 PM
Weeknight World Series - 8 EDT / 5 PDT (Start the game 10 - 15 minutes after the hour)
Weekend World Series - 6 or 7 EDT / 3 or 4 PDT

Agreed.

SOecks
01-29-2006, 11:12 PM
What drives me crazy about people involved with the NFL is they have this undying need to say the word "football" as if we all must be reminded that, yes, they are still talking about football. When the Steelers play the Seahawks (oh boy, I can't wait), I think we can all agree that the game will be played with a football. However, all the talking heads will still say the teams "have to run the football" or "these football teams want respect" or "this guy is a good football player" or "this guy is the best football player on the football field and he can run the football and get his football team some respect." God damnit, we get it.

Ah, crap. Now I have a new thing to get annoyed about when watching all of the football players play football with the football. :tongue:

Viva Medias B's
01-30-2006, 02:45 PM
Here is a column about Tagliabue's comments that I found interesting.

Link (http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/sports/atoz/article_962060.php)

Shoeless Joe
01-31-2006, 05:52 AM
Yikes, a lot of people hate football on this board. As for me I love the game so I have to stand up for it.

I'll use the old swetcheroo and say for people who hate football...well you just don't understand the game. :rolleyes:

Face it folks all televised sports are plagued with TV commercials that have becomed derivative and contrived. So please don't use the "too many breaks" argument because I see that in all sports.

I can easily make an argument about exciting intentional walks and time-at-the-plate-let-me-readjust-my-cup at bats. So believe me both sports have their boring moments.

As far instant replay is concerned, MLB should at least have this for those close HR's that get called incorrectly. I mean it may sound crazy but sometimes calls that get called incorrectly get corrected!

Regarding the announcers, please tell me which broadcast team is the best in all sports and I'll find a hundred people saying how boring, repetitive, unintelligent, and biased they are. I mean please that has nothing to do with the actual sport itself.

Also, please don't act as if there's no showboating in baseball. They both have their bad apples, for every Owens you have a Sosa, for every Moss you have a Bonds, for every Deion Sanders you have a Manny Ramirez, I can go on and on.

So my point after posting in this thread somewhat late...enjoy your favorite sport. I love baseball and football equally so if someone made an argument against baseball I would defend it just as easily. And just because Paul Tagliabue's quote got miscontrued doesn't mean you have to get angry about it. Hell, how many dumb comments has Bud Selig made in the past year? I'd be willing to bet it's more than a couple.

IlliniSox4Life
01-31-2006, 06:44 AM
Regarding the announcers, please tell me which broadcast team is the best in all sports and I'll find a hundred people saying how boring, repetitive, unintelligent, and biased they are. I mean please that has nothing to do with the actual sport itself.

Also, please don't act as if there's no showboating in baseball. They both have their bad apples, for every Owens you have a Sosa, for every Moss you have a Bonds, for every Deion Sanders you have a Manny Ramirez, I can go on and on.

While I agree a lot of people here dislike football (I don't dislike it, I like it), I have to take issue with these two things.

It seems almost all national TV broadcast teams aren't very good. They play to the lowest common denominator. This is true in baseball and football. However, there aren't really as many local broadcasters in football as there are in baseball as far as I know. The local guys seem to be more knowledgable, at least about one of the teams, which is more than any national guy. Thats just my opinion.

Secondly, showboating is way worse in football than baseball. Baseball has things like Sosa's hop, manny loosening his velcro, a point to the sky, and a slow trot. Owens, Chad Johnson, and the like take it way beyond that. End zone "dances" have just gotten ridiculous to the point of stupid. "changing the diaper" on the ball? Give me a break.

Other than that, yeah, they are giving football a bad rap, it is enjoyable.

Viva Medias B's
01-31-2006, 08:19 AM
It's not that we dislike football. I am sure most of us watch and enjoy football. As a matter of fact, I'm a big fan of college football. Nevertheless, we are baseball fans first and will defend our sport, however flawed from Bud Selig on down, against the arrogance of the National Football League.

TDog
01-31-2006, 10:28 AM
......well you just don't understand the game. :rolleyes:...

You may have a point there, but by its very nature, I don't find American football worth understanding. Players wear so much gear that they are often distinguishable only by their numbers. Most players have anonymous roles even under the scrutiny of television analysts who take the game too seriously. In the end, football is just another game where two sides go back and fourth on a rectangular pitch, similar to hockey and basketball. George Will has suggested that it combines the two worst aspects of America by combining committee meetings and violence.

People who complain that non-football fans refuse to understand the game should try to understand the back-and-forth game of soccer, what the rest of the world refers to as football. I don't watch soccer, but when I have, I have found it easier to sit through a soccer match than a football game. The players aren't disguised with heavy gear, they aren't don't huddle while the clock is running and the ball is constantly in play.

Baseball is different, and its difference is what makes it special.

nebraskasox
01-31-2006, 12:10 PM
George Carlin got it even better


http://www.baseball-almanac.com/humor7.shtml
Baseball is played on a diamond, in a park.The baseball park!
Football is played on a gridiron, in a stadium, sometimes called Soldier Field or War Memorial Stadium.

Baseball begins in the spring, the season of new life.
Football begins in the fall, when everything's dying

In football the object is for the quarterback, also known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his receivers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! - I hope I'll be safe at home!


Thanks for posting that link. I've always thought Carlin's routine was one of the funniest things I ever heard.

PS - I wondered when I read this thread when someone was going to bring up the Carlin monologue. It took a while.

Viva Medias B's
01-31-2006, 11:32 PM
At the bookstore this afternoon, I took a peak at this week's SI and read Tagliabue's letter. To me, the letter looked like CYA damage control.

1951Campbell
01-31-2006, 11:57 PM
...the clock is running and the ball is constantly in play.


I played soccer for 10 years, and I had a lot of fun. However, soccer at the "highest level" of competition is like paint drying. I always hear that soccer is more interesting because the "clock is always running," but if the clock is always running, and there's no action, is there any action? I don't know, ask the tree that fell in the forest with no one around it hear it.

The best summation is the Simpson's episode...you know, "center passes to wing, wing passes to center, center passes to wing..." Feh.