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View Full Version : nyyfans.com debate if Chicago a Cubs or White Sox town


Fenway
01-26-2006, 01:23 PM
nyyfans.com started this after the Series but the thread is moving again

The Cubs still Chicago's No. 1 team? (http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=90398)
Today 09:57 AM
by Arod for President (http://forums.nyyfans.com/member.php?find=lastposter&t=90398) http://forums.nyyfans.com/images/buttons/lastpost.gif (http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?goto=lastpost&t=90398)
Circle Change



some quotes
Please, How can the cubs be Chi towns number 1 team when all they seem to do is disgrace that poor city.

The part that cracks me up is the rest of the ballpark is crumbling yet the Tribune invests money into bleacher expansion and the eyesore addition to the west of the park.

The Sox have a more blue collar appeal stemming from the fact that most, not all, of their fans were Southsiders. Some are upper class southsiders from Hyde Park, South Shore, etc., many now live all over Chicagoland. Many now are upper middle class, although they've pulled themselves up the class ladder they still think of themselves as working class. Yes, the Sox tend to have more black fans, but the Cubs have plenty of black fans as well. Latinos are evenly split. If they come from Pilsen, a southside neighborhood which is predominantly Mexican now, they tend to be fans of the Pale Hose. If they come from other areas, they're more likely to be Cubs fans.

SouthSide_HitMen
01-26-2006, 01:30 PM
Good ones

1. Probably 90% of the Cubs popularity stems from Wrigley Field alone.

2. As a Cards fan..there could be no other greater thing (excluding the Cards winning the WS) than the pain of the Cubs fans watching the Sox win the WS...classic stuff.

3. I went out to visit a friend of mine who I grew up with in Jersey. I remember quite clearly him tempering our expectations when we got to our seats, though:

"It's a great park, but it's not going to be what you expect."
"Why?"
"It's weird here- I'd say at least half the crowd aren't so much Cubs fans, as they are Wrigley Field fans."
And throughout the course of the game I began to understand more and more.
It's my favorite ballpark to watch a game in that I've ever been to. However, the fanbase is strange. There certainly are die-hards, but it seemed like there was also an unusually high amount of fluff.

4. If you want a Mardi Gras atmosphere, go to Wrigley. Go to the South Side for a baseball game.
Overall, I'd say Chicago is 50-50 among REAL baseball fans. Don't let the media fool you otherwise.

And then you have the typical ignorant jackass Yankee fan

To be honest, from my experience in Chicago it alsmost seems like a class issue. The "Ghetto" White Sox and the "Uptown" Cubs. Human nature dictates that people will want to associate them selves with the higher class, regardless of where they naturally fall.

Add to that the stigma of The Black Sox. The fact that going to White Sox game used to mean you could get shot.

Ol' No. 2
01-26-2006, 01:32 PM
If I wanted an answer to this question, the first person I'd ask would be a NYY fan.

patbooyah
01-26-2006, 01:33 PM
If I wanted an answer to this question, the first person I'd ask would be a NYY fan.

yes, i've found that the yankees, as "everyman's team" have instilled in their fans a unique perspective on the rest of the league. their view is not distorted at all.

Unregistered
01-26-2006, 01:34 PM
If I wanted an answer to this question, the first person I'd ask would be a NYY fan.Especially one named "Arod_For_President." :rolleyes:

cheeses_h_rice
01-26-2006, 01:38 PM
And then you have the typical ignorant jackass Yankee fan

To be honest, from my experience in Chicago it alsmost seems like a class issue. The "Ghetto" White Sox and the "Uptown" Cubs.

I guess that idiot doesn't realize that parts of Uptown ARE the ghetto.

:)

chaerulez
01-26-2006, 01:40 PM
Got to love the ignorant morons that are saying "Chicago has always been a Cubs town and always will be". I guess to them the 60's and 70's never existed?

Baby Fisk
01-26-2006, 01:41 PM
At long last this question will finally be settled. Praise Buddha!

Chisox003
01-26-2006, 01:41 PM
I guess that idiot doesn't realize that parts of Uptown ARE the ghetto.
And that parts of our ghettos are uptown! :?:

:rolleyes:

Fools

SouthSide_HitMen
01-26-2006, 01:43 PM
If I wanted an answer to this question, the first person I'd ask would be a NYY fan.

I do find it interesting what people in New York and elsewhere have to say on this issue. My family has lived here for 4 generations so I am not looking for an answer from New York fans for factual reasons but rather to hear the perceptions of New York & elsewhere based on what they are fed via the media and their first hand accounts.

While New York Yankee fans are vile and obnoxious, I do find them to be more knowledgeable fans than most "cub fans" or the clowns on national TV (ESPN, Fox).

Hokiesox
01-26-2006, 01:47 PM
While New York Yankee fans are vile and obnoxious, I do find them to be more knowledgeable fans than most "cub fans" or the clowns on national TV (ESPN, Fox).

Really, that's not saying much. No teal needed.

Ol' No. 2
01-26-2006, 01:50 PM
I do find it interesting what people in New York and elsewhere have to say on this issue. My family has lived here for 4 generations so I am not looking for an answer from New York fans for factual reasons but rather to hear the perceptions of New York & elsewhere based on what they are fed via the media and their first hand accounts.

While New York Yankee fans are vile and obnoxious, I do find them to be more knowledgeable fans than most "cub fans" or the clowns on national TV (ESPN, Fox).Opinions are like *******s - everyone has one. I've never been very interested in hearing the opinions of people who don't know anything about the subject. The vast majority of those NYY fans know little to nothing about the subject, as shown by their portrayal of "Uptown" as someplace upscale.

SouthSide_HitMen
01-26-2006, 01:56 PM
Opinions are like *******s - everyone has one. I've never been very interested in hearing the opinions of people who don't know anything about the subject. The vast majority of those NYY fans know little to nothing about the subject, as shown by their portrayal of "Uptown" as someplace upscale.

They are using their New York vernacular with the term Uptown and not commenting on our Uptown neighboorhood.

Like I said, we know the media bias here and on a national basis but it is interesting to me (and the others on this board who have clicked the link and read the comments) what others perceive the facts to be.

RadioheadRocks
01-26-2006, 08:20 PM
Got to love the ignorant morons that are saying "Chicago has always been a Cubs town and always will be". I guess to them the 60's and 70's never existed?

Actually you could say that those who follow that line of thinking probably believe that anything before 1984 never existed!!!

RadioheadRocks
01-26-2006, 08:21 PM
Opinions are like *******s - everyone has one.


... and everyone thinks that their own doesn't stink!!! :D:

Fenway
01-26-2006, 08:29 PM
They are using their New York vernacular with the term Uptown and not commenting on our Uptown neighboorhood.

Like I said, we know the media bias here and on a national basis but it is interesting to me (and the others on this board who have clicked the link and read the comments) what others perceive the facts to be.

Got to admit the first time I saw Uptown Chicago in 1981 it wasn't what I had in mind ( I thought it be like the upper East Side of Manhattan)

The Wilson 'L stop in the early 80's was downright scary, and Sheridan wasn't much better

SouthSide_HitMen
01-26-2006, 09:18 PM
Got to admit the first time I saw Uptown Chicago in 1981 it wasn't what I had in mind ( I thought it be like the upper East Side of Manhattan)

The Wilson 'L stop in the early 80's was downright scary, and Sheridan wasn't much better

You mean you didn't bump into Christie Brinkley on your little trip.

http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/Headline_Archives/brinkley.jpg

Uptown Girl
She's been living in her uptown world
I bet she never had a backstreet guy
I bet her mama never told her why

I'm gonna try for an uptown girl
She's been living in her white bread world
As long as anyone with hot blood can
And now she's looking for a downtown man
That's what I am

And when she knows what
She wants from her time
And when she wakes up
And makes up her mind

She'll see I"m not so tough
Just because
I'm in love with an uptown girl
You know I've seen her in her uptown world
She's getting tired of her high class toys
And all her presents from her uptown boys
She's got a choice

Uptown girl
You know I can't afford to buy her pearls
But maybe someday when my ship comes in
She'll understand what kind of guy I've been
And then I'll win

And when she's walking
She's looking so fine
And when she's talking
She'll say that's she's mine
She'll say I'm not so tough
Just because
I'm in love with an uptown girl
As long as anyone with hot blood can
And now she's looking for a downtown man
That's what I am

Uptown girl
She's my uptown girl
You know I'm in love
With an uptown girl
My uptown girl
You know I'm in love
With an uptown girl
You know I'm in love
With an uptown girl
My uptown girl

Fenway
01-27-2006, 09:21 AM
You mean you didn't bump into Christie Brinkley on your little trip.



Uptown Girl
She's been living in her uptown world
I bet she never had a backstreet guy
I bet her mama never told her why



not exactly
http://www.hogwild.net/images/Misc/homeless-woman-garbage-picking.jpg

soxinem1
01-27-2006, 09:38 AM
Actually you could say that those who follow that line of thinking probably believe that anything before 1984 never existed!!!

Touche....

woodenleg
01-27-2006, 12:45 PM
Got to admit the first time I saw Uptown Chicago in 1981 it wasn't what I had in mind ( I thought it be like the upper East Side of Manhattan)

The Wilson 'L stop in the early 80's was downright scary, and Sheridan wasn't much better

It doesn't matter what east coast people think is 'uptown' - the fact is they think it's all 'upper class' (whatever 'upper class' exists in the Chicago area probably resides on the North Shore, not the north side, but whatever...).

On any given day, you can see more junkies walking around Uptown than in any other area of the city.

RedHeadPaleHoser
01-27-2006, 01:58 PM
On any given day, you can see more junkies walking around Uptown than in any other area of the city.

Remember, those junkies are in Lakeview, NOT Wrigleyville. There is no crime, debauchery, animosity or greed in the Magic Kingdom.
Unless you count, of course, the Tribune Company.

The Critic
01-28-2006, 08:20 AM
You mean you didn't bump into Christie Brinkley on your little trip.

http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/Headline_Archives/brinkley.jpg



Wow, that's not a very good picture of her!
And I don't just mean the Red Sox hat, either!
She's still pretty good-looking to say the least, but that Joker smile makes her look odd. Her face kinda looks like Christian Slater in that picture!!

hsnterprize
01-28-2006, 10:25 AM
I can't say any more than what's already been said here. Being a White Sox fan myself, I can tell you the Cubs' popularity has absolutely NOTHING to do with the team's success on the field. At least in New York, the Yankees have earned the right to be "New York's Team" because of all the history and CHAMPIONSHIPS they have. If the Yanks were trying to push a "Beautiful Yankee Stadium" experience down New Yorkers' throats as the Cubs try to push the "Beautiful Wrigley Field Experience" down ours, I think you'd get the picture.

If it were just based on "on-the-field success", the White Sox would own this town now. But because of all the marketing and exposure the Cubs received since the early-80's when the Tribune Company bought the team and Wrigley Field, the Cubs are more popular nationally. At least the Yankees, as popular (and/or hated) as they are have EARNED the right to be in the status they're in. You can dispute ballpark amenities, location, fan bases, and everything else with Mets fans about why one team is better than the other. But what STOPS the argument is the fact the Yanks have 26 World Championship banners flying over Yankees Stadium, while the Mets have 2 of them flying over Shea Stadium. U.S. Cellular Field will hoist Chicago's first World Series championship banner in nearly 90 years over the bleachers when the season opens. The Cubs will add 1,800 new over-priced bleacher seats, and more angst from their fans about why their team is losing while the White Sox are sitting pretty to perhaps win another World Championship.

I hope I made good points.

PaleHoseGeorge
01-28-2006, 10:35 AM
I can't say any more than what's already been said here. Being a White Sox fan myself, I can tell you the Cubs' popularity has absolutely NOTHING to do with the team's success on the field. At least in New York, the Yankees have earned the right to be "New York's Team" because of all the history and CHAMPIONSHIPS they have. If the Yanks were trying to push a "Beautiful Yankee Stadium" experience down New Yorkers' throats as the Cubs try to push the "Beautiful Wrigley Field Experience" down ours, I think you'd get the picture.....

Well done. Most New Yorkers "get it" about Sox and Cubs fans once they realize what a complete baseball championship ghetto Chicago truly is. They take their success for granted. Gently noting what a bunch of bozos most Chicagoans are for supporting the Cubs is something they easily grasp once the championships/Lovable Loser angle is highlighted.

BTW, this works with most Boston fans, too.
:cool:

Fenway
01-28-2006, 10:48 AM
I At least the Yankees, as popular (and/or hated) as they are have EARNED the right to be in the status they're in. You can dispute ballpark amenities, location, fan bases, and everything else with Mets fans about why one team is better than the other. But what STOPS the argument is the fact the Yanks have 26 World Championship banners flying over Yankees Stadium, while the Mets have 2 of them flying over Shea Stadium. I hope I made good points.

In the "Battle of New York" one thing the Yankees have over the Mets is support away from the city. The Mets have very little support upstate or in Connecticut and New Jersey ( they pretty much own Queens, Brooklyn, Staten Island and Long Island. The Yankees farm team in Staten Island hasn't drawn as well as the Mets team in Brooklyn )

New York also has a high percentage of front runners. Fans who wore a Mets hat in 86 and then a Yankees hat in 96. Yes the Yankees have the history but if they don't win Yankee Stadium becomes a very quiet place to bring a date.

For a variety of reasons the White Sox did not develop a huge following outside of Chicago. I suspect the many years on WCFL hurt them as the station had a much weaker signal at night compared to WGN. The TV debacles are well known. Then there was the perception that the area around Comiskey was dangerous at night. Bottom line is for most people you become a fan of the team your parents supported, but you now have a lot of kids aged 6-14 in Chicago that got very excited by the White Sox winning and 10 to 15 years from now they will be the ones buying tickets.

jehosaphat
01-29-2006, 02:37 PM
[quote=fenway]nyyfans.com started this after the Series but the thread is moving again

The Cubs still Chicago's No. 1 team? (http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=90398)

Stupid Question - and unfortunately it gets asked all the time! Chicago has had two baseball franchises for well over 100 years - both franchises have healthy followings - both franchises have die-hard fans - the city and surrounding areas are full of casual fans who genuinely want both teams to do well and get interested in whatever team is in contention. Chicago is a great baseball city that can support two franchises. Why people are so obsessed about which team is most popular is a mystery to me.

BRDSR
01-29-2006, 03:09 PM
Actually you could say that those who follow that line of thinking probably believe that anything before 1984 never existed!!!

Maybe the distopia that Orwell was really trying to analogize was a Cub-centric city of Chicago...

Fenway
01-29-2006, 03:23 PM
[quote=fenway]nyyfans.com started this after the Series but the thread is moving again

The Cubs still Chicago's No. 1 team? (http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=90398)

Stupid Question - and unfortunately it gets asked all the time! Chicago has had two baseball franchises for well over 100 years - both franchises have healthy followings - both franchises have die-hard fans - the city and surrounding areas are full of casual fans who genuinely want both teams to do well and get interested in whatever team is in contention. Chicago is a great baseball city that can support two franchises. Why people are so obsessed about which team is most popular is a mystery to me.

There are two markets where this issue comes up over and over again and they are Chicago and San Francisco/Oakland.

In the Bay Area since PacBellSBCAtt Park opened it is always filled and across the bay you see a lot of empty seats in Oakland. Same thing in Chicago, Wrigley filled and lots of empty seats ( until now ) at The Cell. Fans who have never been to either city wonder why.

But the White Sox are in no danger of moving anywhere while Oakland is very much in the air. But in the end WHO CARES if Wrigley Field is full, 85% of the fans there you wouldn't want within 8.2 miles of the cell anyways. :tongue:

jehosaphat
01-30-2006, 01:02 AM
[quote=jehosaphat]

There are two markets where this issue comes up over and over again and they are Chicago and San Francisco/Oakland.

In the Bay Area since PacBellSBCAtt Park opened it is always filled and across the bay you see a lot of empty seats in Oakland. Same thing in Chicago, Wrigley filled and lots of empty seats ( until now ) at The Cell. Fans who have never been to either city wonder why.

But the White Sox are in no danger of moving anywhere while Oakland is very much in the air. But in the end WHO CARES if Wrigley Field is full, 85% of the fanbs there you wouldn't want withing 8.2 miles of the cell anyways. :tongue:

Good observation, Fenway. And I wish it was the last observation ever on this subject; obviously I've become prickly. This notion of Sox fans needing to wait for validation until the Sox outdraw the Cubs drives me #$%! nuts. Quite honestly (and I can be honest, I'm among friends here) unlike KW, I have no desire to be in a situation where its hard to get tickets for decent seats. I'd just as soon not become trendy, because trendy means sittin around with a bunch of drunks who decide to play baseball fan for a day. Just give me enough attendance to keep the franchise in enough money to keep us in the hunt for a competitive team, and I'll be happy. Pitching, defense, a good catcher, a good manager, and a little luck - as long as we can hang on to those things, we'll be OK.

As for the poor As, they really oughta move. But where?
</IMG>

Realist
01-30-2006, 03:38 AM
I guess that idiot doesn't realize that parts of Uptown ARE the ghetto.

:)

Just my office. :wink: