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Gee
01-24-2006, 02:51 PM
When everyone talks about speed they always forget to mention
Tartaglia. From what I understand he is the fastest in the organization from home to first. Gets good routes on balls in LF and CF. 38 bags and 80 hits in 66 games no matter how you look at it is good. He is not talked about much because these numbers are Rookie League but he certainly fits the Ozzy mold,
lots of speed, good on base% and very good contact hitter.

maurice
01-24-2006, 03:15 PM
He is not talked about much because these numbers are Rookie League . . .
. . . at age 23. In other words, he's about the same age as Brian Anderson but never played above rookie ball.
:o:

Gee
01-24-2006, 03:44 PM
How did Andersen come into the conversation when talking about speed?
With a good spring Tartaglia should be at Kanny with a great spring at Winston. When camp breaks he will still be 23.

ondafarm
01-24-2006, 04:23 PM
Tartaglia is a good contact hitter but a long way from a major leaguer. At best he will be a player in the Pods mode - arrives to the bigs late and contributes in a role for a few years. Even at Winston-Salem or Birgmingham by the end of the year, he doesn't sniff the majors until he's 26 or 27.

Gee
01-24-2006, 09:59 PM
I agree with your evaluation, but once again has anyone really investigated
his level of speed. I heard this guy ran a 6.3 60yd dash in college.

Banix12
01-24-2006, 10:18 PM
I agree with your evaluation, but once again has anyone really investigated
his level of speed. I heard this guy ran a 6.3 60yd dash in college.

I'm sure they investigated it. I imagine that his speed is the only reason he is around. 23 is still too old for Rookie Ball.

It's gonna take awhile, if ever, for him to make it and in the meantime there are other guys with speed worth looking at.

rdivaldi
01-25-2006, 12:13 AM
How did Andersen come into the conversation when talking about speed?
With a good spring Tartaglia should be at Kanny with a great spring at Winston. When camp breaks he will still be 23.

I think you missed the point. Tartaglia is the same age as Anderson. One is playing in the major leagues, one is in Rookie Ball. Thus, one is a prospect, one is "filler" for the lower levels.

SOX ADDICT '73
01-25-2006, 08:10 AM
I agree with your evaluation, but once again has anyone really investigated
his level of speed. I heard this guy ran a 6.3 60yd dash in college.
Then let him try out for the Olympic track team. Major League Baseball players need to be able to do more than just run fast.

Maybe we can petition the league to let us use sandlot rules, and we can pinch run this guy for Paulie at every AB.

Kuzman
01-25-2006, 08:43 AM
Then let him try out for the Olympic track team. Major League Baseball players need to be able to do more than just run fast.

Maybe we can petition the league to let us use sandlot rules, and we can pinch run this guy for Paulie at every AB.

Exactly, Just have him stand off to the side while Paulie hits. When he makes contact, Tartaglia can run his ass off and maybe make more doubles into triples!

caulfield12
01-25-2006, 08:59 AM
Exactly, Just have him stand off to the side while Paulie hits. When he makes contact, Tartaglia can run his ass off and maybe make more doubles into triples!

Didnīt Michael Jordan and Renaldo Nehemiah prove the silliness of this concept?

Just because you are Ben Johnson or Maurice Greene doesnīt make you a baseball player, far from it.

You canīt take track stars and just stick them on baseball or football fields and expect a successful transition, as well as the reverse.

The Bo Jacksons and Deion Sanders of the world are the exception and not the rule.

Gee
01-25-2006, 09:30 AM
Anderson is on the 40 man roster so he isn't a prospect anymore!
They have a real vested interest in him thats why he is being given every
opportunity to make it. He doesn't impress me. Owens is head over heels better in every way!! Lets be real everybody!!:(:

ondafarm
01-25-2006, 11:18 AM
Anderson is on the 40 man roster so he isn't a prospect anymore!
They have a real vested interest in him thats why he is being given every
opportunity to make it. He doesn't impress me. Owens is head over heels better in every way!! Lets be real everybody!!:(:

Did you see him play in the minors?

He'll be fine.

maurice
01-25-2006, 12:18 PM
Anderson is on the 40 man roster so he isn't a prospect anymore!

Last year he was 23 at AAA. Last year Tartaglia was 23 at rookie ball. The gap between AAA and rookie ball is immense. Tartaglia is so far behind legit prospects on the developmental curve that he'll never catch up.

Somebody mentioned Posdsednik. At age 23, Podsednik was in AA. He "graduated" from rookie ball and moved on to A ball at age 18. Tartaglia appears to be doing the same thing at age 23.

[Anderson] doesn't impress me.

Then why are you impressed with Tartaglia?
Anderson at age 21 in R - .388 AVE / .492 OBP / .592 SLG
Anderson at age 22 in high-A ball - .319 / .394 / .531
Tartaglia at age 23 in R - .305 / .381 / .387

Oh, wait. I forget. He's really fast, so nothing else matters.
Looks like we have another minor-leaguer family member in the house.

rdivaldi
01-25-2006, 12:36 PM
Anderson is on the 40 man roster so he isn't a prospect anymore!
They have a real vested interest in him thats why he is being given every
opportunity to make it. He doesn't impress me. Owens is head over heels better in every way!! Lets be real everybody!!:(:

I find this statement to be utterly ridiculous and I'm on record as not being a fan of Anderson. I'm with Maurice, it looks as though Mrs. Tartaglia bought a new computer....

Gee
01-25-2006, 12:58 PM
Never said I was "impressed" with Tartaglia, I was just throwing something into the ring to see what came back. I was impressed with his speed numbers but as I have been told speed doesn't mean much at his level.
I had to go back and get the spelling of his name time and time again.
Not related at all, my name does not even end with a vowel!!
Does anyone think Pods will go balls out again this year on the bases and not pace himself for the campaign.

KRS1
01-25-2006, 01:18 PM
Anderson is on the 40 man roster so he isn't a prospect anymore!
They have a real vested interest in him thats why he is being given every
opportunity to make it. He doesn't impress me. Owens is head over heels better in every way!! Lets be real everybody!!:(:


Yeah, except in the fact that BA can play great CF, whereas Owens defense has been a questioned, or the fact that BA has 20+ hr potential whereas Owens has maybe 5. Hey, but noone cares if you play GG defense and hit for power anymore, it's all about being able to make contact and steal a lot of bags at a low clip. Seriously, until Owens proves he can use his speed better on the bases, the ability to EVEN PLAY CF(let alone as good as BA)and develops any sign of power, lets not say such stupid things about players we have never seen, okay Gee.

Gee
01-25-2006, 03:42 PM
Well, thats why this forum exists, to put a subject out there and let it go around for a while. What it really comes down to is a crap shoot!
Since the majors has been internationalized nobody really knows what great talent will rise up and take everybody by surprise. It gets more interesting every year. The bottom line is what wins baseball games is men getting on base. I'm no Billy Beane but I feel this should be a key ingredient on any major leaguers resume. If you don't get on base (ANY WAY) then go home!

Randar68
01-25-2006, 03:50 PM
Well, thats why this forum exists, to put a subject out there and let it go around for a while. What it really comes down to is a crap shoot!
Since the majors has been internationalized nobody really knows what great talent will rise up and take everybody by surprise. It gets more interesting every year. The bottom line is what wins baseball games is men getting on base. I'm no Billy Beane but I feel this should be a key ingredient on any major leaguers resume. If you don't get on base (ANY WAY) then go home!

well, for newbies to start lecturing folks about what this forum is for is the first sign of :dtroll: .

Maybe take a step back. Owens is a corner OF'er much the way Pods is. They are very similar defensively. You can't afford them both in the same outfield, first of all.

Second of all, what the hell does internationalization of baseball have to do with scouting/projecting minor league players? Unless you're from Cuba, you're going through the same developmental system as everyone else.

No, it's not "a crap shoot", and that's why some peoples opinions (those that see them in-person and who have proven track records) are worth more than others'.

Randar68
01-25-2006, 03:54 PM
Does anyone think Pods will go balls out again this year on the bases and not pace himself for the campaign.

Pods had a sports hernia (and was operated on after the season) which robs you of your "burst". This is what plagued him from the injury onward.

It is a more and more common injury in sports these days and has a way of dramatically sapping you're first-step quickness. Yes, Pods will be back to being a terror on the paths.

KRS1
01-25-2006, 03:56 PM
well, for newbies to start lecturing folks about what this forum is for is the first sign of :dtroll: .

Maybe take a step back. Owens is a corner OF'er much the way Pods is. They are very similar defensively. You can't afford them both in the same outfield, first of all.

Second of all, what the hell does internationalization of baseball have to do with scouting/projecting minor league players? Unless you're from Cuba, you're going through the same developmental system as everyone else.

No, it's not "a crap shoot", and that's why some peoples opinions (those that see them in-person and who have proven track records) are worth more than others'.

Couldn't agree more with this, as I've said before, we just can't afford to have a collective 5-10 hr's(at best) from two of our OF positions. Especially not with the ballpark we have.

Randar68
01-25-2006, 04:00 PM
Couldn't agree more with this, as I've said before, we just can't afford to have a collective 5-10 hr's(at best) from two of our OF positions. Especially not with the ballpark we have.

I don't agree with this on the basis of offense. IF you had a Tejada at SS, Ivan Rodriguez behind the plate, or other power hitters at non-traditional power positions, you can get away with it, IMO.

The Sox don't have that luxury. In addition, everyone in the world will be running like crazy on 2 guys in the OF who can't get the ball to home plate with any kind of expediency. Pods is fast, but he isn't aggressive in the OF. Owens is better at using his speed to track down balls, but they both have below-average arms. Hell, a guy scored from 2nd base on a one-hop liner to Pods in medium LF last year in the World Series. You can't put 2 guys like that in the same OF unless your plan is to outscore everyone.

Gee
01-25-2006, 06:16 PM
I may be a newbie to this forum but not to baseball.
There have been 100 times more guys that were top prospects that never made it than guys who have. Lets be real! Evaluating talent cannot figure in all the intangables that effect every player. Baseball players are human. All your knowledge and seeing them first hand can only determine whats up front and out there not whats really going to develop unless you have a crystal ball! Its a crap shoot!:angry:

KRS1
01-25-2006, 06:21 PM
I may be a newbie to this forum but not to baseball.
There have been 100 times more guys that were top prospects that never made it than guys who have. Lets be real! Evaluating talent cannot figure in all the intangables that effect every player. Baseball players are human. All your knowledge and seeing them first hand can only determine whats up front and out there not whats really going to develop unless you have a crystal ball! Its a crap shoot!:angry:


Wow, if ever there was a post that I can't see the point to, this was it. Poor guy probably just needs a nap.:wink:

ondafarm
01-25-2006, 06:27 PM
I may be a newbie to this forum but not to baseball.
There have been 100 times more guys that were top prospects that never made it than guys who have. Lets be real! Evaluating talent cannot figure in all the intangables that effect every player. Baseball players are human. All your knowledge and seeing them first hand can only determine whats up front and out there not whats really going to develop unless you have a crystal ball! Its a crap shoot!:angry:

Couldn't disagree more. Some organizations are much better and training talent than others. It has historicly been so and no doubt will continue to be so. For years the St Louis Browns and then later the LA Dodgers were great at scouting and training guys. Sure everyone can sign speed and even plus fastball throwing arms, but getting guys to the majors is a lot more than either of those factors. Everybody who gets signed looked great somewhere but adjusting to the level of professional ball requires a lot of training, learning and hard work. Some organizations have better instructors, teachers and motivators. The White Sox seem to be on the upswing.

Randar68
01-25-2006, 09:07 PM
I may be a newbie to this forum but not to baseball.
There have been 100 times more guys that were top prospects that never made it than guys who have. Lets be real! Evaluating talent cannot figure in all the intangables that effect every player. Baseball players are human. All your knowledge and seeing them first hand can only determine whats up front and out there not whats really going to develop unless you have a crystal ball! Its a crap shoot!:angry:

:whoflungpoo

'Nuff said.

Gee
01-25-2006, 09:07 PM
Everybody who gets signed looked great somewhere but adjusting to the level of professional ball requires a lot of training, learning and hard work. Some organizations have better instructors, teachers and motivators. The White Sox seem to be on the upswing.

Exactly! Very few guys in the world make it to the majors. No matter how good the coaches etc...and thewre are still people that think I need a nap when I insist that its a crap shoot. I will back down from this and say it is a "educated crapshoot".
HOW ABOUT BORCHARD! Wasn't that a "educated crapshoot"

Randar68
01-25-2006, 09:20 PM
Exactly! Very few guys in the world make it to the majors. No matter how good the coaches etc...and thewre are still people that think I need a nap when I insist that its a crap shoot. I will back down from this and say it is a "educated crapshoot".
HOW ABOUT BORCHARD! Wasn't that a "educated crapshoot"

Not everyone is drafted based on "likelihod to reach the majors"...

I'm too tired to go on and on about the art of scouting, because it's obviously wasting my time doing so for your benefit. Your mind is made up. If you insist on being close-minded about it, why not head back to the Sox Clubhouse and join the multitudes of others who only care about prospects when they reach the show?

Save everyone the time.

Daver
01-25-2006, 09:50 PM
I may be a newbie to this forum but not to baseball.
There have been 100 times more guys that were top prospects that never made it than guys who have. Lets be real! Evaluating talent cannot figure in all the intangables that effect every player. Baseball players are human. All your knowledge and seeing them first hand can only determine whats up front and out there not whats really going to develop unless you have a crystal ball! Its a crap shoot!:angry:

What in the hell is your point?

If you are trying to say most prospects don't make the Majors, guess what? We already know that 90+ % do that.

Lemme guess, next you are going to post that Mike Morse was the SS of the future, and the Sox traded him away for nothing.

Ol' No. 2
01-25-2006, 10:01 PM
What in the hell is your point?

If you are trying to say most prospects don't make the Majors, guess what? We already know that 90+ % do that.

Lemme guess, next you are going to post that Mike Morse was the SS of the future, and the Sox traded him away for nothing.He's trying to say that scouting is an inexact science. Don't you all feel enlightened now?:rolleyes:

Banix12
01-25-2006, 10:57 PM
Exactly! Very few guys in the world make it to the majors. No matter how good the coaches etc...and thewre are still people that think I need a nap when I insist that its a crap shoot. I will back down from this and say it is a "educated crapshoot".
HOW ABOUT BORCHARD! Wasn't that a "educated crapshoot"

Making the major leagues is not a crapshoot.

Baseball is more like college. Players get brought in based on their potential and how well they seem to be able to represent the club. They go through rookie league (freshman/low A) sophomore (high A), junior (AA) and senior year (AAA). If they continue to do well they graduate and get a job with a very nice salary. Baseball and College also both allow for the possibility that highly talented people can wash out and end up back in their hometown stacking groceries.

Getting drafted high with a bonus is like getting a scholarship. They want those guys who they feel have most potential doing nothing but playing baseball, unlike the lower draftees who have to work regular jobs in the offseason to make ends meet.

It's a method of separating the wheat from the chaff. Unfortunately sometimes it turns out the Chaff is the guy you thought had the highest potential spent the most money on and the wheat ends up being the 5 foot 8 middle infielder you drafted in the 40th round. Not every student makes it through college, even students thought to be great in high school and nto every player is gonna make it through the minors no matter how high the potential.

The development is largely hard work and long hours honing skill. You seem to be inferring that everything from drafting to development is a crapshoot. Certainly some players are more naturally gifted than others but I think by saying everything is luck you insult the major leaguers who made it by virtue hard work, long hours in the weight room, and years and years of practice.

Gee
01-26-2006, 09:57 AM
You seem to be inferring that everything from drafting to development is a crapshoot. Certainly some players are more naturally gifted than others but I think by saying everything is luck you insult the major leaguers who made it by virtue hard work, long hours in the weight room, and years and years of practice.

I am saying that if a team drafts a player #1 or #50 that it is only a educated guess based on scouting. There is a large list of players in the bigs that when drafted were not considered prospects and only through hard work and perserverance were able to succeed. Of course it is not "luck".
I appreciate everyones feedback on this subject even though I am getting a little slapped around. Everyone has an opinion its great. I have been a Sox fan since 1995 when my youngest son at 9, became a fan because of Frank.:smile:

ondafarm
01-26-2006, 11:03 AM
I'm beating a dead horse here but let me put in the perspective of a former farmhand.

When most guys get signed it everyone thinks they'll be going to the majors. Then you get a whiff of the amount of work required. Most guys had a pretty good idea of what they needed to do to make the next level (AAA to MLB, being the exception) because the coaches would tell you pretty early in the season (ST usually.) For pitchers it was things like, "You need to learn to change speeds" or "You need to use that curve to throw strikes." For hitters, it was .300 and make all the team plays consistenly. For defensive players it was things like, "You need to be able to make that play consistently." My coaches would take us to several games with major leaguers or high minors and sit and fine-tune our expectations. I remember one right fielder who tired of watching just the right fielder on every play. He was promptly cut in the eigth inning and never signed by anyone else.

Everybody on the team knew who was ready for the next level and who was just putzing and bidding their time. After a three game series it was also fairly obvious who on the opposition was ready as well.

Most players were told whom to work with on their "needs". Several pitchers were brought to me in need of better change-ups and the belief in them. A couple of those guys, when they demonstrated to management that they had both changes (straight and circle) and everything that they'd already brought, they got yanked up to the majors. I got a million yen bonus one year (about $10,000) because two guys I worked with all spring-summer long got called up and allowed the Dragons to make a run for the pennant in August-September.

I object to the word "crapshoot" being used at all. This implies chance. The only chancy things in baseball are a) injuries, which good training and proper technique should minimize and b) drafting. Scouts cannot spend enough time with kids to know whether they'll take to training or if they've got the intelligence/dedication/perseverence to learn all the things a ballplayer needs to know. Who has the abilities is fairly obvious to most people.

Gee
01-26-2006, 12:17 PM
The only chancy things in baseball are a) injuries, which good training and proper technique should minimize and b) drafting. Scouts cannot spend enough time with kids to know whether they'll take to training or if they've got the intelligence/dedication/perseverence to learn all the things a ballplayer needs to know. Who has the abilities is fairly obvious to most people.

Thanks for the insight! Your quote states exactly what I am saying:
b) drafting...........CHANCY
Whew! Now we can move on.

:bandance:

Gee
01-27-2006, 08:50 AM
Second of all, what the hell does internationalization of baseball have to do with scouting/projecting minor league players? Unless you're from Cuba, you're going through the same developmental system as everyone else.


This was basically what I was saying about how from anywhere any guy can pop up on the scene and possibly cause a stir in the organization IF he is the real deal. From everything I have been reading I can see that he is a unproven guy in real situations etc. Phil Rodgers of BA was basically requesting people to please ask about him. After he told us about him, it was like, ohhh here comes another one, and with KWs track record lately, it should be interesting to follow.