PDA

View Full Version : Iguchi is gonna get his shot


soxfanatlanta
01-20-2006, 08:19 PM
Forgive me if this thread is already out there, but Guillen is going to move Iguchi down to the 6th slot, and give him a chance as a run producer. This is contingent on Uribe being effective as a #2 hitter.

Linky (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060120&content_id=1298744&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws)

I hop it works but IMO, I don't think Uribe has the plate discipline to work the count, and move Pods over, but at least Ozzie is going to try it in Spring Training.

Thoughts?

Wimpy
01-20-2006, 08:30 PM
I say why mess with success. Iguchi was a great # 2 hitter last year. The best Sox 2 hitter I have seen in a while. Watching Scotty bat 1st and Iguchi bat 2nd all year was great. The way he would get Scotty over to second, or let him steal second and then give himself up with a groundball to the right side was a thing of beauty. Iguchi is a true TEAM player. Besides, doesn't Uribe swing at everything. Would he be patient enough to be a 2 hitter?

SOX ADDICT '73
01-20-2006, 08:36 PM
As long as Uribe can handle it, I say go for it. It's pretty obvious that Iguchi is capable of producing much better offensive numbers, but in 2005 he was willing to give himself up for the good of the team. Think of what his BA might've been without all the times he purposely hit it to the right side to move Pods over from 2nd base. I'm so glad his selflessness was rewarded with a World Championship in his first major league season.

IlliniSox4Life
01-20-2006, 08:39 PM
I say why mess with success. Iguchi was a great # 2 hitter last year. The best Sox 2 hitter I have seen in a while. Watching Scotty bat 1st and Iguchi bat 2nd all year was great. The way he would get Scotty over to second, or let him steal second and then give himself up with a groundball to the right side was a thing of beauty. Iguchi is a true TEAM player. Besides, doesn't Uribe swing at everything. Would he be patient enough to be a 2 hitter?

Iguchi was a great #2 hitter, but I think Ozzie is willing to try it because if it works, Iguchi is a much better bottom of the order hitter than Uribe, and has a better chance to drive runs in. I think it provides for a more balance offense. Plus, Uribe actually struck out less per AB last year than Iguchi. Not that that matters all that much because it wasn't a huge difference.

Ol' No. 2
01-20-2006, 08:41 PM
Iguchi was a great #2 hitter, but I think Ozzie is willing to try it because if it works, Iguchi is a much better bottom of the order hitter than Uribe, and has a better chance to drive runs in. I think it provides for a more balance offense. Plus, Uribe actually struck out less per AB last year than Iguchi. Not that that matters all that much because it wasn't a huge difference.Iguchi struck out a lot because he was taking pitches giving Pods a chance to run and got behind in the count. I hope I'm wrong, but I'll be shocked if this idea lasts until opening day. Uribe is just too much of a free-swinger.

IlliniSox4Life
01-20-2006, 08:42 PM
Also, I just thought of this, but is it possible Ozzie is doing this to give Iguchi something new to work on to avoid falling into a sophomore slump? It seems like a lot of 2nd year guys just kind of fall into a rut for a little bit, and this may be a way for Ozzie to enshure that Iguchi is keeping active and not concentrating too hard on something, only being able to do that one thing, and wasting his other skills.

IlliniSox4Life
01-20-2006, 08:44 PM
Iguchi struck out a lot because he was taking pitches giving Pods a chance to run and got behind in the count. I hope I'm wrong, but I'll be shocked if this idea lasts until opening day. Uribe is just too much of a free-swinger.

What if the move is also to force Uribe to become more disciplined at the plate and bunt/take pitches/etc more? Even if it only lasts for spring training, I think giving Uribe a shot at the #2 spot would overall improve his hitting even if they did drop him down in the batting order later on.

Corlose 15
01-20-2006, 08:50 PM
The added bonus of Iguchi being another quality run producer at the bottom of the order makes this at least worth trying. If it works in making Uribe more controlled then you make 2 hitters and the lineup overall better. Uribe has the skills to do it with bunting and such but the question is his patience.

Ol' No. 2
01-20-2006, 08:50 PM
What if the move is also to force Uribe to become more disciplined at the plate and bunt/take pitches/etc more? Even if it only lasts for spring training, I think giving Uribe a shot at the #2 spot would overall improve his hitting even if they did drop him down in the batting order later on.Except I don't think that ever works. You can't change a hitter's basic approach. Free swingers will always be free swingers and patient hitters will always be patient hitters.

infohawk
01-20-2006, 08:51 PM
What if the move is also to force Uribe to become more disciplined at the plate and bunt/take pitches/etc more? Even if it only lasts for spring training, I think giving Uribe a shot at the #2 spot would overall improve his hitting even if they did drop him down in the batting order later on.
I agree with this scenario. The different mindset required to hit in the two-hole may make Uribe a far more disciplined hitter. Besides, Uribe was taking pitches much better last season after he began that leg kick loading mechanism. His batting average in September was pretty good if my recollection is correct. He tore it up for awhile. Anyway, if it doesn't work, Ozzie can just slide Iguchi back into the two-hole.

chisoxfanatic
01-20-2006, 08:56 PM
I agree with this scenario. The different mindset required to hit in the two-hole may make Uribe a far more disciplined hitter. Besides, Uribe was taking pitches much better last season after he began that leg kick loading mechanism. His batting average in September was pretty good if my recollection is correct. He tore it up for awhile. Anyway, if it doesn't work, Ozzie can just slide Iguchi back into the two-hole.

IIRC, he was one of the only guys hitting during the rough late August/early September. I seem to recall that he spent some time with the same guy (his name slips my mind) that Frank Thomas worked with to get his great swing back, and it helped make him a much more complete hitter. "Slappy" turned into Mr. Production down the stretch. I say go for this lineup change. If it works, the more power to Ozzie! If it doesn't, there's always the possibility of moving it back to where it usually was.

SOX ADDICT '73
01-20-2006, 09:09 PM
Except I don't think that ever works. You can't change a hitter's basic approach. Free swingers will always be free swingers and patient hitters will always be patient hitters.
I agree with you most of the time, but I have to believe that a professional baseball player is capable of working at improving his game. Certainly not every player (see Patterson, Corey and Harris, Willie), but to say that "free swingers will always be free swingers" seems a bit extreme. If Juan can't handle it, we'll know soon enough. Come on Spring Training!

HomeFish
01-20-2006, 09:12 PM
Uribe hit .390 in the #2 spot in the first month or so of 2004. That was truly bizarre, with Willie and Uribe at #1 and #2 both tearing it up.

patbooyah
01-20-2006, 09:28 PM
I have a feeling ozzie's decision could be influenced by Juan's September and October, where he posted a vastly improved OBP and AVG

Mon OBP - AVG
Apr: .315 - .286
May: .247 - .225
Jun: .284 - .238
July: .292 - .250
Aug: .290 - .222
Sep: .379 - .304
Oct: .362 - .286

also - juan had a total of 39 walks last year, and 15 of them came in the september and october.

also - pods only had 54 walks last season, so maybe juan isn't as big a drop-off as everyone thinks.

TheOldRoman
01-20-2006, 09:32 PM
Iguchi struck out a lot because he was taking pitches giving Pods a chance to run and got behind in the count. I hope I'm wrong, but I'll be shocked if this idea lasts until opening day. Uribe is just too much of a free-swinger.
I have always been really high on Uribe, so this is probably a very biased opinion. I think he can do great in the two spot.
The leg kick he worked on with Walt Hrniak really helped him. He was on fire in September and October. If not for him and Crede, we wouldn't have made the playoffs. He hit 7 of his 16 homers in September, with season low 10 strikeouts and a season high 10 BB. He also had 17 RBI, and that was at a time when nobody else was hitting. I know Uribe isn't as good as the .370 he batted into June of 04, and he isn't as bad as the first few months of 05. I think he can be a solid 2 hitter.

DSpivack
01-20-2006, 09:45 PM
Am I crazy to think that by the end of the season Brian Anderson could be the #2, Iguchi #6, and Uribe at his normal spot towards the end of the order?

BV2005
01-21-2006, 01:55 AM
All you people have been so high on Uribe, some saying he will be on the outfield wall years from now. So lets give him a shot in the 2 hole and see what he can do, if hes as good as some of you are hyping him up to be there should be no problem.

storiale
01-21-2006, 04:23 AM
After watching Uribe chase those inside pitches always going for the right field fence, It will take a lot for him to suddenly get disciplined.

The only chance he has is if he starts early, laying off those pitches - an experienced pitcher will feed on that desire to throw him inside every time.

soxinem1
01-21-2006, 08:43 AM
Tough call, but it looked to me like Uribe had a more compact swing (like Crede) with power from September on last year, and he seemed willing to take a walk too. While this means nothing until it is done consistently, I think it may not be a bad idea.

Some have said Iguchi K'd a lot last year because of taking pitches, but his history of making contact is obvious, and he will strike out 100-120 times a year as he did in Japan.

I think Uribe has grown and matured a lot as a player since he came here, and I think he'd be up to the task. But Anderson should not be an option, not yet anyway. He can break in 8 or 9.

Ol' No. 2
01-21-2006, 10:11 AM
I agree with you most of the time, but I have to believe that a professional baseball player is capable of working at improving his game. Certainly not every player (see Patterson, Corey and Harris, Willie), but to say that "free swingers will always be free swingers" seems a bit extreme. If Juan can't handle it, we'll know soon enough. Come on Spring Training!Look at players' #PIT/PA. (Uribe's numbers below.) It's generally one of those things that doesn't change much over the years. I guess we'll see, but if I were betting, I'd bet against it.

2001 3.42
2002 3.64
2003 3.91
2004 3.83
2005 3.54

SOX ADDICT '73
01-21-2006, 10:28 AM
Look at players' #PIT/PA. (Uribe's numbers below.) It's generally one of those things that doesn't change much over the years. I guess we'll see, but if I were betting, I'd bet against it.

2001 3.42
2002 3.64
2003 3.91
2004 3.83
2005 3.54
What does Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania have to do with this discussion? Talk about a thread hijack... :wink:

That stat is a pretty good indication of Uribe's patience at the plate, but I'd like to give Greg Walker an opportunity to work a little more with him. Unlike Walt Hriniak, who appeared to want every player to conform to one hitting style, Walker seems to let them swing the way they're comfortable, and then working with that. Uribe's swing is certainly unorthodox, but if Walker can (eventually) get through to Crede, I believe he can help anybody.

Ol' No. 2
01-21-2006, 10:35 AM
What does Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania have to do with this discussion? Talk about a thread hijack... :wink:

That stat is a pretty good indication of Uribe's patience at the plate, but I'd like to give Greg Walker an opportunity to work a little more with him. Unlike Walt Hriniak, who appeared to want every player to conform to one hitting style, Walker seems to let them swing the way they're comfortable, and then working with that. Uribe's swing is certainly unorthodox, but if Walker can (eventually) get through to Crede, I believe he can help anybody.Hitting instruction generally focuses on improving swing mechanics and helps players make more consistent contact. Uribe certainly seemed to do better in that regard toward the end of last season. But I can't think of any hitter who became a more patient hitter once he got to the big league level. Spring training is the time to try stuff like this out. I guess we'll see.

TheVulture
01-21-2006, 12:14 PM
But I can't think of any hitter who became a more patient hitter once he got to the big league level.

Carlos Lee? Harold Baines?

And where in the world do you find pitch/PA stats?

Man Soo Lee
01-21-2006, 01:55 PM
Look at players' #PIT/PA. (Uribe's numbers below.) It's generally one of those things that doesn't change much over the years. I guess we'll see, but if I were betting, I'd bet against it.

2001 3.42
2002 3.64
2003 3.91
2004 3.83
2005 3.54
Iguchi was at 3.84 #PIT/PA last year while focused on the role. Uribe matched that in 2004 when he spent a lot of time in the two hole.

Sox-o-matic
01-21-2006, 02:03 PM
I hope that Uribe does well in the 2 spot, but at least if he doesn't we could move Iguchi right back there.

Then again it is possible that Uribe is being moved to the top of the order in a sort of 'sink-or-swim improve your plate discipline' promotion. With Julio Lugo, Omar Vizquel, and Miguel Tejada all possibly being available around the trade deadline (assuming none of these players are traded before then), I could see KW moving Juan before he would move a productive Iguchi from an RBI spot in the lineup.

Foulke You
01-21-2006, 06:41 PM
Uribe hit .390 in the #2 spot in the first month or so of 2004. That was truly bizarre, with Willie and Uribe at #1 and #2 both tearing it up.
I remember that. He tore the cover off the ball in the 2 spot batting in front of Frank and Maggs and then seem to fall off when moved down the order. I was fooled into thinking it was because he thrived in the 2 hole but after watching Uribe for a couple years now, I attribute this to the fact that he is a very streaky hitter a la Ray Durham. He'll hit the cover off the ball for a few weeks and then look lost for the next few weeks. He showed some signs of more plate discipline late last year. We'll see if he can impress because I think he is going to get his shot there at #2.

Ol' No. 2
01-21-2006, 08:03 PM
Carlos Lee? Harold Baines?

And where in the world do you find pitch/PA stats?http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players