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cyyoung4mvp
01-11-2006, 11:11 PM
He is subject to probably a 2 million dollar pay increase. Do you think he is worth 2 + million. I say no, what are your guys view on this.

Daver
01-11-2006, 11:15 PM
He is subject to probably a 2 million dollar pay increase. Do you think he is worth 2 + million. I say no, what are your guys view on this.

Two million for, arguably, the best third baseman in the league?

You brought this up why?

cyyoung4mvp
01-11-2006, 11:18 PM
Two million for, arguably, the best third baseman in the league?

You brought this up why?

Please tell me how is the best 3B in the league. He is a streaky and inconsistant hitter, and does not deserve 2 mil. Sure, he had a great postseason but other then that he has not been anything special. Also, he plays good D, but you need more then good D if you want to get paid 2.4 or so million bucks.

Cuck the Fubs
01-11-2006, 11:18 PM
Two million for, arguably, the best third baseman in the league?

You brought this up why?

Well said....Well said!!!!

After his playoff performance that's dirt cheap!

Unregistered
01-11-2006, 11:19 PM
It's also a very confusing user name you've chosen...

SABRSox
01-11-2006, 11:20 PM
He is subject to probably a 2 million dollar pay increase. Do you think he is worth 2 + million. I say no, what are your guys view on this.
Yes, yes he is.

Joe Randa signed a one-year $3.75 mil contract with Pittsburgh. You're telling me that Randa's better than Crede? Are you White Sox Josh, by any chance?

cyyoung4mvp
01-11-2006, 11:21 PM
Two million for, arguably, [the best third baseman in the league?]

You brought this up why?

Hank Blalock, better fielding % in a tougher fielding ball park and is a better hitter. A Rod, sure he sucks in the playoffs, but there is no comparison between Rod and Crede. I can keep on going with a list of better 3B in the AL and NL if you want.

cyyoung4mvp
01-11-2006, 11:22 PM
Yes, yes he is.

Joe Randa signed a one-year $3.75 mil contract with Pittsburgh. You're telling me that Randa's better than Crede? Are you White Sox Josh, by any chance?

Randa is a proven vet who has shown he can hit and is pretty darn good fielder. I think Randa is better then Crede. Also, I am not whoever you said I was.

Unregistered
01-11-2006, 11:25 PM
I think Randa is better then Crede.
Well, that's all you had to say. This thread could've ended 10 minutes ago!

Cuck the Fubs
01-11-2006, 11:28 PM
<waves hand>

You didn't see this thread...move along:D:

Brian26
01-11-2006, 11:28 PM
He is subject to probably a 2 million dollar pay increase. Do you think he is worth 2 + million. I say no, what are your guys view on this.

2 million a year? Of course he's worth it. If Timo's worth a million last year, Crede is easily worth 2.

Brian26
01-11-2006, 11:30 PM
A Rod, sure he sucks in the playoffs, but there is no comparison between Rod and Crede.

A-Rod is still the best shortstop in the AL, but not the best 3b.

TomBradley72
01-11-2006, 11:32 PM
Gold glove caliber 3B's who can hit mid twenty HR's along with 4 HR's and Criag Nettles/Brooks Robinson type defense in the post season are worth $2M.

Palehose13
01-11-2006, 11:33 PM
Joe Crede is absolutely worth 2 million dollars/year.

Take a look at what our players made last year and compare Joe to some of the other guys. He is absolutely worth 2mil/year.

http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/salaries/teamdetail.aspx?team=4&year=2005

Is Boras proposing a 5year/10million dollar deal? If so, jump on it KW!

SABRSox
01-11-2006, 11:36 PM
Hank Blalock, better fielding % in a tougher fielding ball park and is a better hitter. A Rod, sure he sucks in the playoffs, but there is no comparison between Rod and Crede. I can keep on going with a list of better 3B in the AL and NL if you want.
First, fielding percentage is a joke of a stat. I'll use range factor over fielding percentage (though I'm not a fan of most fielding stats anyway). Crede has a better range factor than Blalock.

Second, Crede also turns more double plays percentage-wise than any other 3B in the AL (43% of all double play opportunities were converted). In fact, only Abraham Nunez was better in the NL at 44%.

I was a Crede hater at the start of last season because of his bat, or lack thereof. However, the guy isn't a Jose Valentin-esque drain on the lineup, and if he ever learned to take walks, he'd be a pretty good hitter.

I came around on him because of his glove. It's a lot better than you're giving credit for. Certainly better than Hank (I also hit .196 against LHP last season) Blalock.

Daver
01-11-2006, 11:36 PM
Hank Blalock, better fielding % in a tougher fielding ball park and is a better hitter. A Rod, sure he sucks in the playoffs, but there is no comparison between Rod and Crede. I can keep on going with a list of better 3B in the AL and NL if you want.

Feilding percentage is the most contrived stat that has ever existed. Period.

I don't care what he caught, tell me when he caught it.

Chisox003
01-11-2006, 11:37 PM
Hank Blalock, better fielding % in a tougher fielding ball park and is a better hitter. A Rod, sure he sucks in the playoffs, but there is no comparison between Rod and Crede. I can keep on going with a list of better 3B in the AL and NL if you want.
How is Texas any harder to play 3B than anywhere else?

Oh, and real quick...what was Blalock's fielding % in the playoffs?

End of story.

Tragg
01-11-2006, 11:39 PM
Yes, he's worth it.

Blalock is not a better fielder (%s be damned) and is a limited hitter himself and costs 150% more. AND he would cost us players. No point in even considering him

Chisox003
01-11-2006, 11:39 PM
I don't care what he caught, tell me when he caught it.
Daver, you're letting your love for Hawk shine through again . . . :o:


:cool:

itsnotrequired
01-11-2006, 11:40 PM
Fielding percentage is the most contrived stat that has ever existed. Period.

Are you suggesting there are flaws in a stat that rewards totally dogging a sharp grounder and letting it through while punishes those that dive at it and get an error? Preposterous!

Daver
01-11-2006, 11:41 PM
Daver, you're letting your love for Hawk shine through again . . . :o:


:cool:

Ken Harrellson stole that from Earl Weaver, and he would be the first person to admit it.

Daver
01-11-2006, 11:43 PM
Are you suggesting there are flaws in a stat that rewards totally dogging a sharp grounder and letting it through while punishes those that dive at it and get an error? Preposterous!

:buddylee

I set a Sox record based on that premise.

SouthSide_HitMen
01-11-2006, 11:43 PM
Early 2006 WSI Award entry for worst premise of the year.

I am not inserting the Louis Armstrong pic as this is too great an insult for Louis Armstrong to endure.

Crede is better than an aging Joe Randa and even someone with a reasonable opinion would concede Joe Randa is not worth more than twice as much as Joe Randa.

There are several 3B that are better than Joe Crede. A Rod, Aramis Ramirez, David Wright and Eric Chavez come to mind. However, Crede is paid far less at the "overpriced" $2 mil proposed contract (except Wright who still gets the minimum due to lack of service time).

I expect Baby Fisk's Daleks to move into position at any moment.

cyyoung4mvp
01-11-2006, 11:43 PM
Joe Crede is absolutely worth 2 million dollars/year.

Take a look at what our players made last year and compare Joe to some of the other guys. He is absolutely worth 2mil/year.

http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/salaries/teamdetail.aspx?team=4&year=2005

Is Boras proposing a 5year/10million dollar deal? If so, jump on it KW!

The only 2 players that were overpaid were Timo and Shingo. And they should have never made that money. Also, a 5 year, 10 million dollar deal for a guy who will be a lifetime .250 hitter with 2 herniated disks in his back is that stupidest idea ever. Also, this is going to be Crede's final year also. Fields has just been moved up to AAA and is most likely going to platoon with Mackowaik in 07. And Kenny doesn't want to negotiate with Boras. Unless Crede dumps Boras, Crede doesn't have a chance of wearing the black and white much longer.

WhiteSoxFan84
01-11-2006, 11:45 PM
I'm ready to give him 7 mill a year, lol. The guy is about to explode and become a huge star. He's worth 2.5 mill or whatever he gets.

itsnotrequired
01-11-2006, 11:45 PM
The only 2 players that were overpaid were Timo and Shingo. And they should have never made that money. Also, a 5 year, 10 million dollar deal for a guy who will be a lifetime .250 hitter with 2 herniated disks in his back is that stupidest idea ever. Also, this is going to be Crede's final year also. Fields has just been moved up to AAA and is most likely going to platoon with Mackowaik in 07. And Kenny doesn't want to negotiate with Boras. Unless Crede dumps Boras, Crede doesn't have a chance of wearing the black and white much longer.

I've seen all those words before but this post makes no sense...

:?:

Chisox003
01-11-2006, 11:45 PM
Ken Harrellson stole that from Earl Weaver, and he would be the first person to admit it.
Earl Weaver was a little before my time....

But I guess you learn something new everyday

SABRSox
01-11-2006, 11:47 PM
There are several 3B that are better than Joe Crede. A Rod, Aramis Ramirez, David Wright and Eric Chavez come to mind. However, Crede is paid far less at the "overpriced" $2 mil proposed contract (except Wright who still gets the minimum due to lack of service time).

Don't forget Miguel Cabrera as well. He and David Wright are currently the two biggest steals (contract-wise) in MLB. Maybe add Felix Hernandez to that list as well.

Yes, there are better 3B in baseball, but in terms of value, there aren't any that are available, and there aren't any that are going to come cheaper than Crede, even at $2+ mil. Get 'er done, Kenny!

Brian26
01-11-2006, 11:47 PM
The only 2 players that were overpaid were Timo and Shingo. And they should have never made that money.

:timo:

"Excuse me? I single-handidly won the Memorial Day game against the Halos with my clutch hit."

duke of dorwood
01-11-2006, 11:50 PM
Ask the pitchers what he's worth-its more than 2 mil

SouthSide_HitMen
01-11-2006, 11:52 PM
Don't forget Miguel Cabrera as well. He and David Wright are currently the two biggest steals (contract-wise) in MLB. Maybe add Felix Hernandez to that list as well.

Yes, there are better 3B in baseball, but in terms of value, there aren't any that are available, and there aren't any that are going to come cheaper than Crede, even at $2+ mil. Get 'er done, Kenny!

Exactly. I forgot the Marlins are moving Cabrera from the OF to 3B now that Lowell has been pawned off.

Crede would get at least $2 mil in arbitration, let alone the open market. I expect something like 2 years with club option for the 3rd. Maybe $6 mil guaranteed with a $3 or $4 mil for the 3rd year and a buyout of $500,000.

santo=dorf
01-11-2006, 11:53 PM
Two million for, arguably, the best third baseman in the league?
I don't care what he caught, tell me when he caught it.

Did Hawk hack into Daver's account? :o:

A_ROW33
01-11-2006, 11:54 PM
He is subject to probably a 2 million dollar pay increase. Do you think he is worth 2 + million.

Yes. Next.

SouthSide_HitMen
01-11-2006, 11:55 PM
Did Hawk hack into Daver's account? :o:

Even Mods need to protect their account!

cyyoung4mvp
01-12-2006, 12:00 AM
I expect something like 2 years with club option for the 3rd. Maybe $6 mil guaranteed with a $3 or $4 mil for the 3rd year and a buyout of $500,000.

Why would we ever sign Crede to that deal. It is obvious Kenny wants to get rid of all Boras agents and is moving Fields up a level every year. I will bet anyone that this will be Crede's last year as A White Sox.

ode to veeck
01-12-2006, 12:01 AM
Hank Blalock, better fielding % in a tougher fielding ball park and is a better hitter. A Rod, sure he sucks in the playoffs, but there is no comparison between Rod and Crede. I can keep on going with a list of better 3B in the AL and NL if you want.

is this a former crede basher in sheep's clothing?

Jjav829
01-12-2006, 12:03 AM
Also, a 5 year, 10 million dollar deal for a guy who will be a lifetime .250 hitter with 2 herniated disks in his back is that stupidest idea ever.
Nuh uh! I can think of stupider ideas! :rolleyes:

Also, this is going to be Crede's final year also.
Also, he's under the Sox control for another year after this one also.

Fields has just been moved up to AAA and is most likely going to platoon with Mackowaik in 07.
Yeah, because Fields is just tearing it up down there with his .252 average. Hey, what was Crede's average last year? And Crede's OPS? And his HR's? And did he do it against major league pitching or AA pitching?

And Kenny doesn't want to negotiate with Boras.
Show me a quote where he says that and you win a prize.

Unless Crede dumps Boras, Crede doesn't have a chance of wearing the black and white much longer.
Crede has already said that if his representation isn't acting in his best interests, he will make a change.

cyyoung4mvp
01-12-2006, 12:05 AM
is this a former crede basher in sheep's clothing?

??? I am new here. I just don't think Crede is as good as most fans make him out to be. He has always been mediocre at best and after one postseason where he does good, he is god? and should be payed millions?

peeonwrigley
01-12-2006, 12:06 AM
Crede is worth 2 years at $2-3M. I would not mind a club option 3rd year for $4M.

Jjav829
01-12-2006, 12:10 AM
??? I am new here. I just don't think Crede is as good as most fans make him out to be. He has always been mediocre at best and after one postseason where he does good, he is god? and should be payed millions?
Who said he is god? And yes, professional baseball players make millions. Even crappy players make millions, much less a third baseman who is defensively among the tops in baseball.

Yes, Crede has been mediocre offensively for most of his career. However, he did have a huge September and October, playing a large part in bringing the Sox out of their big slump and leading the team to the World Series. Add in his great defense and knack for coming up in the clutch and what makes you think he isn't worth keeping around to see if he can become a better, more consistent hitter? It must be because Josh Fields is tearing up AA pitching.

A_ROW33
01-12-2006, 12:13 AM
after one postseason where he does good, he is god?

No, he's a member of the world champion white sox which is the next best thing.

HomeFish
01-12-2006, 12:14 AM
Two million for, arguably, the best third baseman in the league?

Two million for Eric Chavez? I'd pull the trigger on that any day of the week.

IlliniSox4Life
01-12-2006, 12:14 AM
The only question is not "is Crede worth 2 million a year?" but "will Kenny use his superior roundhouse kick on Boras' face in order to get Crede at that low of a price?"

itsnotrequired
01-12-2006, 12:15 AM
??? I am new here. I just don't think Crede is as good as most fans make him out to be. He has always been mediocre at best and after one postseason where he does good, he is god? and should be payed millions?

The market dictates that he will earn millions. Look at the other options for third basemen. Among regular third-basemen in the AL (120+ games), Crede ranks:

- 3rd in FPCT
- 4th in OPS
- 5th in HR
- 7th in RBI
- 9th in AVE
- 10th in OBP
- 11th in R

A guy like Blalock has TWICE as many strikeouts as Crede. A guy like Cantu has two more errors in 40 fewer games.

What more are you looking for?

mantis1212
01-12-2006, 12:16 AM
Two million for, arguably, the best third baseman in the league?

:hawk
"STRETCH!!!!"

Arguably, indeed...Yes, I would definitely pay him $2MM, but GEEEZ...

cyyoung4mvp
01-12-2006, 12:17 AM
Who said he is god? And yes, professional baseball players make millions. Even crappy players make millions, much less a third baseman who is defensively among the tops in baseball.

Yes, Crede has been mediocre offensively for most of his career. However, he did have a huge September and October, playing a large part in bringing the Sox out of their big slump and leading the team to the World Series. Add in his great defense and knack for coming up in the clutch and what makes you think he isn't worth keeping around to see if he can become a better, more consistent hitter? It must be because Josh Fields is tearing up AA pitching.

Crede was a main part to our august/september slump. I think he was on an 0 for 30 slump before he went on the dl. I think we can do much better then Crede at 3B and just because he got hot in october doesn't mean he is some super hitter now.

Unregistered
01-12-2006, 12:20 AM
http://picpop.com/gallery/albums/userpics/0828/mrt.jpg

KRS1
01-12-2006, 12:20 AM
Why would we ever sign Crede to that deal. It is obvious Kenny wants to get rid of all Boras agents and is moving Fields up a level every year. I will bet anyone that this will be Crede's last year as A White Sox.


So how many times have you seen Josh play? Ive seen him play around 10-15 games and thought us taking him in the first round was a joke. He basically knocked my socks off this AFL when he was playing mediocre ball, but for him it was amazing(as compared to when I first saw him). He is no where near the bigs if that's what you assume, just because you move up one step doesn't mean your ready for a shot. It just means he is currently our best option for AAA, and we think he can make it by while getting some valuable AB's against higher competition in a smaller park. I would be absolutely flaberghasted if Josh saw any time in the majors before 08', and equally as stunned if I saw him playing 3rd base for us EVER. Please, while Joe may not be god as you put it, but compared to Josh he sure is divine. As for Joe being worth 2mil, let's just put together some pieces of the puzzle before we get against the wall. Rob Mackowiak is making 2.25 to be a back-up on this team(albeit a super-sub), how could Joe expect to be making less than the guy who is insurance for him? Paying Joe any less than 2mil would be like that episode of Seinfeld where George Steinbrener( I know pretty appropriate for this conversation) gives Costanza's secretary a higher salary than him.

SABRSox
01-12-2006, 12:22 AM
What more are you looking for?
Pre-1997 Robin Ventura, appearently.

KRS1
01-12-2006, 12:24 AM
Crede was a main part to our august/september slump. I think he was on an 0 for 30 slump before he went on the dl. I think we can do much better then Crede at 3B and just because he got hot in october doesn't mean he is some super hitter now.

Where have you seen a claim on this site about Joe being a "super hitter"? No one has ever said that here, just that he is by far the best option we have in our org. as of now to play a crucial spot on D and come up with the timely big hit. If KW could replace him for a Migs Cabrera, Ryan Zimmerman, or David Wright(even though his D sucks big time) I'm sure he would do it a heartbeat, but getting that kind of player doesnt come cheap, and certainly not very often are they traded at all.

itsnotrequired
01-12-2006, 12:25 AM
Crede was a main part to our august/september slump. I think he was on an 0 for 30 slump before he went on the dl. I think we can do much better then Crede at 3B and just because he got hot in october doesn't mean he is some super hitter now.

August, yes. September,no. Crede raised his AVE by 16 points, OBP by 13 points and SLG by 43 points in September. This is pretty good, considering how hard it is to move those numbers late in the season.

Granted, he more or less returned to the same numbers he was at at the start of August but that's another discussion...

Jjav829
01-12-2006, 12:27 AM
Crede was a main part to our august/september slump. I think he was on an 0 for 30 slump before he went on the dl. I think we can do much better then Crede at 3B and just because he got hot in october doesn't mean he is some super hitter now.
Ugh...why do I bother? :?:

Look, yes we can do better than Crede at 3rd. But unless you have some grand idea to forward to Kenny Williams so that he can acquire David Wright, Alex Rodriguez, Eric Chavez, etc. then Crede is our best option. No one says he is a super hitter. However, he appeared to turn a corner in September. If he can hit .270 with 20+ homers and play defense with the best in the league, he is a fine option at 3rd base. No one is asking for him to start hitting like Arod.

SABRSox
01-12-2006, 12:28 AM
Ugh...why do I bother? :?:

Look, yes we can do better than Crede at 3rd. But unless you have some grand idea to forward to Kenny Williams so that he can acquire David Wright, Alex Rodriguez, Eric Chavez, etc. then Crede is our best option.

Trade Contreras and Crede for any of those guys. Duh...

kittle42
01-12-2006, 12:30 AM
1. Nice to hear from you, Chips.

2. Have you noticed the average major league bum makes over $2 million a year these days? I would think that even a .250-.260, 20 HR, solid defensive 3B is worth *at least* that. If you are going to criticize a $2 mil deal for Crede, you should find some other salaries to compare his to.

ChiSoxRowand
01-12-2006, 12:32 AM
Crede is worth 2 million a year. He's not one of the top 3rd baseman in the league, however. The guy had a great postseason, but he's still a .250 career hitter. I do expect more from him this year.

Palehose13
01-12-2006, 12:32 AM
Why would we ever sign Crede to that deal. It is obvious Kenny wants to get rid of all Boras agents and is moving Fields up a level every year. I will bet anyone that this will be Crede's last year as A White Sox.
You know, I would attempt to discuss this with you, but Jjav and some others have done an excellent job pointing out your misconceptions.. Your entire post is *********. You act like 2 mil/year for a baseball player is a lot of money. You know what, it's not. When guys like Edgardo Alfonzo(7.5mil), David Bell(4.7mil), and Adrian Beltre (11.4mil) play third base making that kind of money you bet your ass that Joe Crede is worth 2-2.5 million/year.

soxinem1
01-12-2006, 12:34 AM
Please tell me how is the best 3B in the league. He is a streaky and inconsistant hitter, and does not deserve 2 mil. Sure, he had a great postseason but other then that he has not been anything special. Also, he plays good D, but you need more then good D if you want to get paid 2.4 or so million bucks.

The best in the league may be stretching it, but if they are giving Mackowiak 2 years for about 6 million to be a utility player, from a team he hasn't played an inning for yet, why shouldn't Crede get 2 or 3 million?

Plus, Crede has had a far better all-around career than Mackowiak thus far. And even if they give Crede 4 mill, he's still be a better bargain than just about any 3B except Blaylock, who will be getting paid soon enough himself.

SABRSox
01-12-2006, 12:35 AM
You act like 2 mil/year for a baseball player is a lot of money. You know what, it's not. When guys like Edgardo Alfonzo(7.5mil), David Bell(4.7mil), and Adrian Beltre (11.4mil) play third base making that kind of money you bet your ass that Joe Crede is worth 2-2.5 million/year.

That David Bell contract is horrid. He's the reason Philly "had" to trade Placido Polanco. That trade worked out real well for them.

itsnotrequired
01-12-2006, 12:36 AM
You know, I would attempt to discuss this with you, but Jjav and some others have done an excellent job pointing out your misconceptions.. Your entire post is horse****. You act like 2 mil/year for a baseball player is a lot of money. You know what, it's not. When guys like Edgardo Alfonzo(7.5mil), David Bell(4.7mil), and Adrian Beltre (11.4mil) play third base making that kind of money you bet your ass that Joe Crede is worth 2-2.5 million/year.

Median pay for starting third basemen in MLB was about $1.5 million last year. The average was $5.7 million but that's only because A-Rod's salary shoots the average all to hell.

So the question should be is Joe better than 50% of the third basemen in the league? I think we would all agree the answer is yes. Of course he isn't going to put up A-Rod numbers but he also isn't getting A-Rod salary.

Jjav829
01-12-2006, 12:37 AM
Adrian Beltre (11.4mil)

:puking:

Anyone who questions whether Joe Crede deserves $2 million needs to look at this number. Adrian 'I try to pull everything even though my swing is tailored for going the other way' Beltre will make $11.4 million this year. Holy crap that's awful.

itsnotrequired
01-12-2006, 12:37 AM
The best in the league may be stretching it, but if they are giving Mackowiak 2 years for about 6 million to be a utility player, from a team he hasn't played an inning for yet, why shouldn't Crede get 2 or 3 million?

Plus, Crede has had a far better all-around career than Mackowiak thus far. And even if they give Crede 4 mill, he's still be a better bargain than just about any 3B except Blaylock, who will be getting paid soon enough himself.

No, you're wrong. Mackowiak will be platooning with Fields in 2007. That's why he deserves the big bucks and Crede deserves a shoe to the crotch.

:rolleyes:

Palehose13
01-12-2006, 12:39 AM
Median pay for starting third basemen in MLB was about $1.5 million last year. The average was $5.7 million but that's only because A-Rod's salary shoots the average all to hell.

So the question should be is Joe better than 50% of the third basemen in the league? I think we would all agree the answer is yes. Of course he isn't going to put up A-Rod numbers but he also isn't getting A-Rod salary.

I would put Joe's value at around 4mil/year, so I think 2.5 is a bargain. He isn't consistent with the bat, but he does tend to be clutch. What can't be over looked is his glove. I'm willing to bet that the pitchers on our staff think that his glove is definitely worth a couple million a year.

SABRSox
01-12-2006, 12:39 AM
:puking:

Anyone who questions whether Joe Crede deserves $2 million needs to look at this number. Adrian 'I try to pull everything even though my swing is tailored for going the other way' Beltre will make $11.4 million this year. Holy crap that's awful.

I'd bet you'd find that there are a slew of really bad contracts at 3rd base, probably because there isn't a huge amount of talent at the position. And here we are quibbling over a $2 million dollar contract to Crede. Well, not we, just this guy. If all it takes is $2 mil for Crede, where do we sign?

Jjav829
01-12-2006, 12:39 AM
No, you're wrong. Mackowiak will be platooning with Fields in 2007. That's why he deserves the big bucks and Crede deserves a shoe to the crotch.

:rolleyes:
Haven't you heard? Fields hit .252 in AA last year. That is so much better than the .252 that Crede hit in the majors. Plus Fields moved up a level to AAA. I don't see Crede moving up a level anytime soon.

FarWestChicago
01-12-2006, 12:43 AM
Who let shoota back in? :?:

Palehose13
01-12-2006, 12:44 AM
Who let shoota back in? :?:

That's what I was thinking, but so far I'm not counting his posts. :wink:

itsnotrequired
01-12-2006, 12:45 AM
:puking:

Anyone who questions whether Joe Crede deserves $2 million needs to look at this number. Adrian 'I try to pull everything even though my swing is tailored for going the other way' Beltre will make $11.4 million this year. Holy crap that's awful.

Let's compare Beltre and Crede, shall we? Crede played in fewer games but still managed to hit more HRs, have fewer errors and have a higher SLG, OPS and FPCT and a lower K/BB ratio. They tied for OBP and Crede hit only 3 points lower than Beltre. Crede also has a damn WS ring.

So does anyone here think Beltre is worth FIVE TIMES the dollars as Crede?

:rolleyes:

voodoochile
01-12-2006, 12:51 AM
Who let shoota back in? :?:

Dang, almost got to use that line first. Should have posted it immediately instead of reading the whole thread...:D:

Yes, Crede is easily worth the money. Anyone who doesn't see that really has no clue about the fiscal side of baseball and I question their knowledge of the game in general. Why are people still arguing about it?

Palehose13
01-12-2006, 12:55 AM
Dang, almost got to use that line first. Should have posted it immediately instead of reading the whole thread...:D:

Yes, Crede is easily worth the money. Anyone who doesn't see that really has no clue about the fiscal side of baseball and I question their knowledge of the game in general. Why are people still arguing about it?

Some of us just enjoy beating up the weak. :cool:

DoItForDanPasqua
01-12-2006, 01:05 AM
Two million for, arguably, the best third baseman in the league?

You brought this up why?

I'm glad Scott Boras has joined the forum. In couple years, he'll be asking for a 15 year, $100,000,000,000,000.99 contract.

SoxSpeed22
01-12-2006, 01:21 AM
So does anyone here think Beltre is worth FIVE TIMES the dollars as Crede?

:rolleyes:All you need is one good season in your contract year and anyone will fall for it. If it's just $2 Million a year, check his health, then go for it.

WSox8404
01-12-2006, 01:31 AM
He is subject to probably a 2 million dollar pay increase. Do you think he is worth 2 + million. I say no, what are your guys view on this.

And you base this on what exactly? He is probably the best defensive third baseman in the league and when he is on at the plate, he is a hitter who can change a game in a swing. I would say that that is worth 2 million. Look at some of the other stiffs out there at third in the league and see how much they are making. Two million is still a bargain for a solid third baseman, who, IMO can still have himself a year where he hits for .280 with 30 and 100.

kittle42
01-12-2006, 02:25 AM
Damnit, I took a shot at Chips earlier and meant shoota....sorry Chips!

Bobbo35
01-12-2006, 08:43 AM
Two million for, arguably, the best third baseman in the league?

You brought this up why?

He definately deserves two million dollars. He is the best third baseman in the league and the playoffs showed that.

Bobbo35
01-12-2006, 08:44 AM
Please tell me how is the best 3B in the league. He is a streaky and inconsistant hitter, and does not deserve 2 mil. Sure, he had a great postseason but other then that he has not been anything special. Also, he plays good D, but you need more then good D if you want to get paid 2.4 or so million bucks.

Best third baseman, not a complete package with his hitting, but is fielding is superior.

Crede_Fan
01-12-2006, 08:56 AM
Crede was a main part to our august/september slump. I think he was on an 0 for 30 slump before he went on the dl. I think we can do much better then Crede at 3B and just because he got hot in october doesn't mean he is some super hitter now.

I seem to remember a certain September game against the Tribe that ended with JOE CREDE!!!!

oeo
01-12-2006, 09:12 AM
Crede was a main part to our august/september slump. I think he was on an 0 for 30 slump before he went on the dl. I think we can do much better then Crede at 3B and just because he got hot in october doesn't mean he is some super hitter now.
One guy cannot be the reason behind a slump. It was the whole team, they weren't getting the pitching or the hitting. Why are you saying he's the MAIN reason behind it? He's also a main part of the reason we won the World Series, and argulably could have been the World Series MVP.

And did you ever think that maybe he was in a slump because he needed some time off, maybe to clear his head? It's sort of like yourself...would you say you're most productive after a short amount of sleep and you've been working almost everyday for the last 4 months...or you just had a few weeks off and had a great sleep last night? Sorry to be the one to break it to you, but Crede is in fact a human.

Crede is one of the better 3B in the league. $2 million is not a lot of money for a baseball player these days considering Timo Perez got $1 million sitting on the bench and what some of these guys are getting paid these days. I really think that you think this is a lot of money, it really isn't. That would be a bargain, IMHO.

The Dude
01-12-2006, 09:12 AM
He is subject to probably a 2 million dollar pay increase. Do you think he is worth 2 + million. I say no, what are your guys view on this.

If Timo Perez can get 1 million a year and platoon man Mac gets 2.5...then Crede easily gets over 2 million to START AT 3RD!!!!!!!

And as someone else said, your username is pretty confusing.:?:

ChiSoxGirl
01-12-2006, 09:22 AM
If Timo Perez can get 1 million a year and platoon man Mac gets 2.5...then Crede easily gets over 2 million to START AT 3RD!!!!!!!

And as someone else said, your username is pretty confusing.:?:

And didn't Crazy Carl make somewhere in the neighborhood of $5 million last year??? :?: That guy was the king of the "golf swing" in baseball!

Crede is absolutely worth $2 million a year. I admit- I wasn't on the Crede bandwagon until relatively recently. However, I always saw him as the closest thing to a solid replacement down at 3rd for Robin Ventura as anyone; it's just that his bat made rather infrequent appearances. That being said, after what I saw that man do in the playoffs and World Series this year, I'm more convinced than ever that he's deserving of $2 million a year... maybe even $3 million. He was as clutch as anyone in September & October, which is something you just can't discount. I look forward to seeing him down at 3rd base for many seasons to come.

Jerome
01-12-2006, 09:25 AM
But he is easily worth 2 million dollars.

I think our top 4 pitchers would volunteer the $500K each to ensure that Joe and his solid D stay on the the Sox.

Minnie Me
01-12-2006, 10:17 AM
From 1963 to 1967 Max Alvis stats remarkably the same as Joe Crede. Would you pay 2 million for Max Alvis?
Hell Yes.

spiffie
01-12-2006, 10:27 AM
I admit I am still doing pennance for some very deep Crede-hatred over the last few years. That said, I would definitely pony up that cash for him at this point, pending a full checkup on his back.

One thing that intrigues me about possibly locking him long-term if he's healthy is something I read about his swing. He talked about how after the hand injury he went back and watched the tapes of his swing, broke it down piece by piece, and made a few adjustments. And when he came back the swing looked more compact and not as big and loopy. And the results showed in the last 2 months of Sept. and Oct. If he really did do something to correct the flaws in his swing, and can produce consistently the way he did in the stretch run, he could end up being a huge bargain at that price.

kittle42
01-12-2006, 10:36 AM
From 1963 to 1967 Max Alvis stats remarkably the same as Joe Crede. Would you pay 2 million for Max Alvis?
Hell Yes.

I'd pay $2 million for Max Power.

Rocky Soprano
01-12-2006, 10:41 AM
Crede is worth more than 2MM.

Minnie Me
01-12-2006, 10:45 AM
I'd pay 2 million for Vic Power

Flight #24
01-12-2006, 11:09 AM
Look - it's quite simple. Looking at the pre-arbitration salaries for the starting 3Bs for all MLB teams in 2006, you have MLB avg = $4.5M and median = $2.3M. That includes a couple of TBDs at the major league minimum, but it's also based on 2005 salaries, so excludes any raises or arb awards/new contracts, which will raise the #.

Joe is easily worth $2.3M. Were he a free agent, he'd probably get $5-7M. Given that he's a few eyars away from FA, I'm thinking $2-3M is just about right. I still think he jumps all over a 3-yr/$11M deal with a team option. Something like Rowand with 2.5-3.5-5. But I think the Sox might prefer to go with a 1-yr deal and see how he (and Fields) do.

russ99
01-12-2006, 11:13 AM
Crede would get at least $2 mil in arbitration, let alone the open market. I expect something like 2 years with club option for the 3rd. Maybe $6 mil guaranteed with a $3 or $4 mil for the 3rd year and a buyout of $500,000.

This will go to arbitration.

I have a sneaking suspicion the Sox will low-ball their arbitration offer due to the possibility of a debilitating back injury.

Joe's a key member of the Sox, and I hope they can sign him to a multi-year deal, but I dont think Bore-ass will go for a possible Sox offer of a lower base pay with significant performance bonuses.

Hangar18
01-12-2006, 12:09 PM
YES, Id pay him.

Chicken Dinner
01-12-2006, 12:15 PM
If Timo Perez can get 1 million a year and platoon man Mac gets 2.5...then Crede easily gets over 2 million to START AT 3RD!!!!!!!

And as someone else said, your username is pretty confusing.:?:

And Borchard got how much??? Pay the man!

CWSpalehoseCWS
01-12-2006, 01:00 PM
Please tell me how is the best 3B in the league. He is a streaky and inconsistant hitter, and does not deserve 2 mil. Sure, he had a great postseason but other then that he has not been anything special. Also, he plays good D, but you need more then good D if you want to get paid 2.4 or so million bucks.

His D is one of the best in the league. His hitting is clutch, not inconsistant.

soxfan13
01-12-2006, 01:02 PM
I definately think Crede is worth 2 million plus a year.

bayzbol44
01-12-2006, 01:11 PM
Definitely worth that. Hawk said he would take him over A-Rod. Hawk is king, so if he would rather have Crede than A-Rod, then he has to be worth more than 2 million.

StockdaleForVeep
01-12-2006, 01:13 PM
Two million for, arguably, the best third baseman in the league?

You brought this up why?

Honestly, hes not the top third baseman offensively but his defense is invaluable

scottjanssens
01-12-2006, 01:20 PM
Hank Blalock, better fielding % in a tougher fielding ball park and is a better hitter.

I've been down on Crede's defense since he broke in as prior to this season he's been average at best (career RATE of 98 [where 100 is average and Ventura is 108]). Fielding % is a worthless stat, everyone knows this.

BTW, Crede's RATE this year was 109. Blalock's was 96 (career 98). Stay off the drugs, son.

DaleJRFan
01-12-2006, 01:31 PM
Joe Crede @ 2 million a year > ARod @ 26 million a year
Joe Crede @ 2 million a year > Blalock @ 3 million a year
Joe Crede @ 2 million a year > Joe "WSJ" Randa @ 4 million a year

Joe Crede, when considering ALL aspects, contract (2 mil a year? yikes!), age (27), defense (best in the game), hitting (good power, doesn't strike out a lot, Mr. October), baserunning (has he ever made a baserunning mistake??), etc, ESPECIALLY his contract status and $$$ command, is a vastly superior thirdbase option than any other MLB thirdbaseman... he makes the pitchers better with his defense and also clears payrole room for pitching needs, as well.


Hank Blalock: 5-Year worth 15.25M- deal includes 2009 option or 250K buyout- will make 550K in 2004, 850K in 2005, 3M in 2006, 4.75M in 2007 and 5.95M in 2008

soxfanatlanta
01-12-2006, 01:42 PM
Joe Crede @ 2 million a year > ARod @ 26 million a year
Joe Crede @ 2 million a year > Blalock @ 3 million a year
Joe Crede @ 2 million a year > Joe "WSJ" Randa @ 4 million a year

Joe Crede, when considering ALL aspects, contract (2 mil a year? yikes!), age (27), defense (best in the game), hitting (good power, doesn't strike out a lot, Mr. October), baserunning (has he ever made a baserunning mistake??), etc, ESPECIALLY his contract status and $$$ command, is a vastly superior thirdbase option than any other MLB thirdbaseman... he makes the pitchers better with his defense and also clears payrole room for pitching needs, as well.


OK, the hoarse is quite dead here, so let's wrap this thing up...

Joe Crede at $2 million per year is a very good value. Period.

DaleJRFan
01-12-2006, 02:05 PM
OK, the hoarse is quite dead here

:?:

soxfanatlanta
01-12-2006, 02:08 PM
:?:
No disrespect to you, but this thread is tired, and I just wanted to sum things up. Me sorry.

:redface:

Palehose13
01-12-2006, 02:19 PM
No disrespect to you, but this thread is tired, and I just wanted to sum things up. Me sorry.

:redface:

If you're tired of it, don't click on it. Personally, I'm waiting for cyyoung to come back and tell us that we are idiots. But hey...I'm stuck on the couch, daytime TV sucks...I'm looking for any entertainment that I can get. :redneck

SouthSide_Hitman
01-12-2006, 02:44 PM
from the looks for your post here about Joe Crede.....I am guessing that you are just another in a ever increasing long line of pissed of sCrUB fans who is still crying over yet another year of drunken disappointment.
I am sure in your pathetic little world Aramis Rameriz is a better 3rd baseman than Joe Crede too,just because he hits a few meaningless home runs in that glorified slo pitch softball stadium that the sCrUBS play in......after all it was stated in a Chicago newpaper (I can not remember which guy wrote it,,,but it is the truth none the less)...."Wrigley Field is nothing but a decaying baseball stadium surroned by a drunken amusement park".
But I do not remember seeing ANY 3rd baseman but JOE CREDE hoisting the World Series Trophy.
So......in reply to your assanine thread......YES,YES,YES....1000 TIME OVER.....YES....JOE CREDE IS WORTH $2 MILLION A YEAR.

Unregistered
01-12-2006, 02:46 PM
If you're tired of it, don't click on it. Personally, I'm waiting for cyyoung to come back and tell us that we are idiots. But hey...I'm stuck on the couch, daytime TV sucks...I'm looking for any entertainment that I can get. :redneckWell if this is any consolation:
:tomatoaward:

:D:

Palehose13
01-12-2006, 03:01 PM
It won't be worth anything if cyyoung just runs away with his tail between his legs. :(:

Hmmmm...2pm? Time for more codeine. It is the highlight of my day. :D:

Hitmen77
01-12-2006, 09:10 PM
If Crede's backup (Mackowiak) is making $2 million, then how can we expect that Crede will make less than that?

IowaSox1971
01-13-2006, 04:06 AM
Without Crede, there is no way we'd have won the World Series. We might not have even won the division.

Let's look at all the clutch hits Crede had from mid-September on:

1. He hit the walkoff homer against Cleveland that might have saved our season. If we lose that game and get swept in that series, who knows what happens?

2. He hit the go-ahead homer in Game 1 of the World Series, and he preserved the slim lead with some amazing defensive plays.

3. He got us going in Game 3 of the World Series, when he sparked our five-run inning by hitting a solo homer off Oswalt. Before that homer, we were down, 4-0, and things appeared hopeless.

4. He hit the game-winning double in Game 2 of the ALCS. If we don't win that game, we could have lost that series.

5. He hit the game-tying homer in the seventh inning of Game 5 of the ALCS. And I believe he also drove in the go-ahead run in the eighth inning on an infield single against K-Rod.

6. I believe he had a key RBI hit during our five-run inning against Wells and the Red Sox in Game 2 of the ALDS. (I know he was the base-runner when Graffanino booted that possible double play ball.)

7. Didn't he also score or drive in the first run of Game 3 of the ALDS in Boston?

Yes, he definitely deserves a $2 million raise.

starboy0
01-13-2006, 06:38 AM
Joe is an excellent fielder and comes up big in must situations. He's a key part of our nucleus. He is worth 2 million.

chisoxmike
01-13-2006, 01:36 PM
Someone made the point that is Mackowiak is making..what $2 mill a season...crede's got to make more. I agree with that.

While I agree that Crede's bat came around when he came back from his injury from bunting, I still want to see a full season of production from him. His defense has improved greatly in 2005, I hope to see that again. But I dont think you will ever see Crede bat .280, .290 for a entire season.

Crede is what he is. He plays a above average 3B, he will bat .250 with 25HR, and he will be streaky and inconsistant at the plate all season. He will strike out with a runner on 3rd in the fourth or sixth inning to end the inning, but I would never doubt him in the ninth.

ChiSoxGirl
01-13-2006, 02:02 PM
Someone made the point that is Mackowiak is making..what $2 mill a season...crede's got to make more. I agree with that.

While I agree that Crede's bat came around when he came back from his injury from bunting, I still want to see a full season of production from him. His defense has improved greatly in 2005, I hope to see that again. But I dont think you will ever see Crede bat .280, .290 for a entire season.

Crede is what he is. He plays a above average 3B, he will bat .250 with 25HR, and he will be streaky and inconsistant at the plate all season. He will strike out with a runner on 3rd in the fourth or sixth inning to end the inning, but I would never doubt him in the ninth.

Very impressive, Mike. I expected you to hate on him a little bit more like you became so famous for doing at Puffers in October. :tongue:

tartanSox
01-14-2006, 09:55 AM
For more on the Crede Conundrum take a look here (http://www.spam.com)

Craig Grebeck
01-14-2006, 10:05 AM
from the looks for your post here about Joe Crede.....I am guessing that you are just another in a ever increasing long line of pissed of sCrUB fans who is still crying over yet another year of drunken disappointment.
I am sure in your pathetic little world Aramis Rameriz is a better 3rd baseman than Joe Crede too,just because he hits a few meaningless home runs in that glorified slo pitch softball stadium that the sCrUBS play in......after all it was stated in a Chicago newpaper (I can not remember which guy wrote it,,,but it is the truth none the less)...."Wrigley Field is nothing but a decaying baseball stadium surroned by a drunken amusement park".
But I do not remember seeing ANY 3rd baseman but JOE CREDE hoisting the World Series Trophy.
So......in reply to your assanine thread......YES,YES,YES....1000 TIME OVER.....YES....JOE CREDE IS WORTH $2 MILLION A YEAR.

Yes, he's worth 2 million a year, but don't be ridiculous. Don't let your pathetic, baseless Cub hating cloud your thinking. Aramis Ramirez is a great baseball player, and time will tell whether or not he improves defensively. Just like time will tell whether or not Crede can become a better, patient hitter.

A. Cavatica
01-14-2006, 12:01 PM
I have no problem with $2 mil a year, but I wouldn't want the contract to run more than 3 years. There's a health risk.

I would have no problem with a 2 year, $5 mil deal either.

SouthSide_HitMen
01-14-2006, 01:42 PM
Yes, he's worth 2 million a year, but don't be ridiculous. Don't let your pathetic, baseless Cub hating cloud your thinking. Aramis Ramirez is a great baseball player, and time will tell whether or not he improves defensively. Just like time will tell whether or not Crede can become a better, patient hitter.

Not to be confused with SouthSide_HitMen (I thought you quoted one of my posts until I reread the ID (Man instead of Men)).

StillMissOzzie
01-15-2006, 02:28 AM
Just a few random points:

1) Where did this $2M figure come from, anyhow? Just a number pulled from thin air to stimulate discussion, or is that rumored to be the White Sox arbitration offer?:?:

2) Comparisons of worth between other free agents and arbitration-eligible Crede are meaningless. Free agent vs. arbitration eligible = apples vs. oranges.:o:

3) One thing that still disturbs me a bit about the Sox vs. the baby bears on the other side of town is that they will bend over backwards to avoid going into arbitration, while the White Sox are all too often ready and willing to go to the mat over relatively small amounts of money.:angry:

SMO
:gulp:

SOXSINCE'70
01-15-2006, 10:37 AM
2 million is a bargain nowadays.Yes,he's worth it.
The question is,will his agent,Scott Dumbass,accept the proposal??

:borass:
"Joe was the sole reason the White Sox won the World Series.
Anything less than a 10 year,200 million dollar deal will be
rejected immediately." :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

SOXSINCE'70
01-15-2006, 10:41 AM
I have no problem with $2 mil a year, but I wouldn't want the contract to run more than 3 years. There's a health risk.

I would have no problem with a 2 year, $5 mil deal either.

Or 3 years around 7 mil.But that's where it stops.
You are correct.Good post.:thumbsup:

SouthSide_HitMen
01-15-2006, 11:15 AM
3) One thing that still disturbs me a bit about the Sox vs. the baby bears on the other side of town is that they will bend over backwards to avoid going into arbitration, while the White Sox are all too often ready and willing to go to the mat over relatively small amounts of money.:angry:



http://www.businessofbaseball.com/data/arbitrationresults.pdf

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050118&content_id=932299&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb#signed

White Sox Arbitration Cases Last Ten Seasons (1996-2005):

Keith Foulke 2001

Doesn't seem like a huge number of arbitration cases to me (80 total).

The White Sox have come to an agreement with several players before cases have gone to arbitration (as have every team). If the White Sox did not offer a fair contract to those players the cases would have gone to arbitration. The players and their agents concluded that every offer given to the White Sox was fair and reasonable with the exception of Keith Foulke in 2001.

ewokpelts
01-15-2006, 01:56 PM
No. He's one of their worst hitters and he has a creaky back.
oh...and his agent is borASS.....

rmusacch
01-15-2006, 02:03 PM
Two million for, arguably, the best third baseman in the league?

You brought this up why?

The best third baseman in the league? Are you kidding? What are you basing this on?

Hoffdaddydmb
01-21-2006, 08:18 PM
I don't know about best third baseman in the league but definately top 3. I"ll go for $2 million for stellar D. The man was due a raise. Hell, Chris Widger even made more than him last year.

Bobbo35
01-21-2006, 08:42 PM
Two million for, arguably, the best third baseman in the league?

You brought this up why?
He is the best third baseman in the league, streaky hitter, but worth 2 million dollars. Think of all the schmucks in the league making 2 million a year, crede is worth it.

Bobbo35
01-21-2006, 08:46 PM
:buddylee

I set a Sox record based on that premise.
Hey buddy!!!

ChiSoxFan7
01-22-2006, 08:57 PM
one word: yes.

StillMissOzzie
01-23-2006, 01:17 AM
http://www.businessofbaseball.com/data/arbitrationresults.pdf

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050118&content_id=932299&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb#signed

White Sox Arbitration Cases Last Ten Seasons (1996-2005):

Keith Foulke 2001

Doesn't seem like a huge number of arbitration cases to me (80 total).

The White Sox have come to an agreement with several players before cases have gone to arbitration (as have every team). If the White Sox did not offer a fair contract to those players the cases would have gone to arbitration. The players and their agents concluded that every offer given to the White Sox was fair and reasonable with the exception of Keith Foulke in 2001.

And you arbitrarily chose 1996 to start your point. Jack McDowell alone went through the arbitation process 3 times, IIRC. I'd bet that there are whole teams that haven't been through a full arbitration hearing that many times.

Maybe the Sox learned the error of their ways as a result, though.

SMO
:gulp:

chaotic8512
01-23-2006, 01:44 AM
one word: yes.

My thoughts exactly.

As I have arrived to the thread, I see it has reached four pages. My question is how? Did it take four pages to roast that troll? :tongue:

tick53
01-24-2006, 11:50 AM
Daver, you're letting your love for Hawk shine through again . . . :o:


:cool: I'll Be Happy To Quote Hawk:
JOOOOOOE CREADE

Theanticub
01-24-2006, 10:44 PM
He is subject to probably a 2 million dollar pay increase. Do you think he is worth 2 + million. I say no, what are your guys view on this.

No, he isn't worth 2+ million..he's worth 4-5+ million. Why ? He is our most clutch hitter, and is easily a gold glover.

filmnews
01-25-2006, 11:36 PM
He is a steal at 2 million. He was great at the end of last year.