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View Full Version : Goose denied over Sutter?


soxinem1
01-10-2006, 02:47 PM
I'm wondering what the criteria for electing HOF players is. This is not a case of former White Sox versus cubs, but I cannot see how Sutter makes it in ahead of Goose.

While both of these guys were not a part of the generation of 1-2-3 outs for a save, but to me, Goose and Fingers were one of the few guys, who when they came in, you could see the fans making their way up the walkways. Fingers is in, Goose is not.

Goose made many All-Star teams, pitched well in the post season, and often had to get nine outs to close the game. He was a real difference maker.

True, Sutter was an excellent reliever, but Goose helped bring respect to the position, he should have gone in first.

Domeshot17
01-10-2006, 02:57 PM
I agree, I also think Lee Smith deserves to be in. I know he was part of the super loose save system, but you cant hold it against him because its how the system was. He still holds the all time save record. The biggest knocks on him were how many teams he played for and how the system which determined saves.

SouthSide_HitMen
01-10-2006, 08:39 PM
Goose - 1002 G, 1809 1/3 IP, 3.01 ERA (over 2/3 of IP in AL), 1502 K, 1.232 WHIP, 124-107 W-L, 310 SV

Bruce - 661 G, 1042 IP, 2.83 ERA, 861 K, 1.140 WHIP, 68-71, 300 SV

Goose pitched over 30% more innings in a tougher league and pitched better than Sutter.

I rank the three (credible) relievers on the ballot as Gossage, Lee Smith, Sutter. I would vote the first two in. I would not have voted for Sutter.

Mots09
01-11-2006, 08:58 AM
Goose needs to hire a firm that will publicize him much like Sutter... what a joke

Baby Fisk
01-11-2006, 09:04 AM
Goose needs to hire a firm that will publicize him much like Sutter... what a joke
Maybe that's the problem: does a player need the right PR to get into the HOF?

HChappasJr
01-11-2006, 09:10 AM
True, Sutter was an excellent reliever, but Goose helped bring respect to the position, he should have gone in first.[/quote]


Yeah, but Sutter was the first to get 300 saves and he did it alot faster than Goose did. And though he didn't invent the split-finger pitch, he certainly popularized it.

Tekijawa
01-11-2006, 09:54 AM
Goose was in the league until '94 Sutter until '88... I think that may have played a large part in him getting in first. Gooses time will come, Sutter had to wait 13 years.

Tragg
01-11-2006, 02:03 PM
Sutter led the league in saves more than Gossage did; and Sutter, at his best, was better than Gossage and for a short while was a great pitcher (which Gossage never was). That's my opinion.

Fenway
01-11-2006, 02:16 PM
Goose not happy

http://www.nypost.com/sports/60171.htm

"I just don't get it," a frustrated Gossage said in Colorado yesterday, moments after he was told fellow reliever Bruce Sutter would be the only man going into Cooperstown this summer. "I'm at a loss for words."

"I just can't believe Sutter got in before me," Gossage added. "He deserved it. I was hoping Sutter and I could go in together. ... I don't know if I ever will make it."

"You know what, I never hear from these guys who don't vote for me," Gossage said, his voice rising. "But I'll take on any writer, anywhere, on any show, and I will bury him."


As for Rice, Gossage said it was a "joke" that Kirby Puckett was a first-ballot Hall of Famer while Rice is now 0-for-12 in Hall of Fame voting. "If Jim Rice had played in the Metrodome, he would have torn the place down, and that's nothing against Kirby Puckett, that's just the way it is," Gossage said.

ode to veeck
01-11-2006, 02:24 PM
Sutter led the league in saves more than Gossage did; and Sutter, at his best, was better than Gossage and for a short while was a great pitcher (which Gossage never was). That's my opinion.

Goose at his best was every bit as good as Sutter at his best, and a hellava lot more intimidating

Tragg
01-11-2006, 02:26 PM
Goose not happy

http://www.nypost.com/sports/60171.htm

Well, I agree that Rice was better than Puckett (as was Dawson). I prefer Sutter to Gossage, but Goose deserves it too and will get in probably in 2 years (Ripken, Gwynn and McGwire will crowd him out next time).. I don't consider YOunt, Molitor, Murray, Puckett, Sutton, Niekro, Catfish Hunter, Fingers. Eck super-duper stars , and Rice, Gossage, Dawson, Blyleven are about on their level (although they don't have the records or the 500 homers or whatever).

soxinem1
01-11-2006, 11:27 PM
Sutter led the league in saves more than Gossage did; and Sutter, at his best, was better than Gossage and for a short while was a great pitcher (which Gossage never was). That's my opinion.

Goose would have had even more saves if he didn't throw 200+ innings as a starter in 1976. He even had 15 CG's that year.

I still say that when it was all on the line, Goose was the man. Nothing against Sutter. Goose should have went in first.

TheKittle
01-12-2006, 12:34 AM
I agree, I also think Lee Smith deserves to be in. I know he was part of the super loose save system, but you cant hold it against him because its how the system was. He still holds the all time save record. The biggest knocks on him were how many teams he played for and how the system which determined saves.

Umm Lee Smith was a reliever about five years before Eck and Eck is in the HOF, as a reliever. Matter of fact, Lee Smith saved a couple games that Eck won as a cub.

As for the number of teams, who cares, Gaylord Perry pitched for about half the teams in baseball and his greasy plaque is in the HOF.

So those "knocks" you mentioned are BS.

EastCoastSoxFan
01-12-2006, 11:48 AM
I think this all goes to show just how subjective HOF voting is.
I think most voters would say that the first thing they look at when evaluating HOF candidates is the candidate's career numbers, but that's certainly not the only thing they look at.
For example, my fellow Loyola Academy alums might have heard of a contact-hitting infielder named Fred Lindstrom who had a relatively modest 12-year career in the '20s and 30's and was voted into the HOF by the Veterans Committee mainly because John McGraw regarded him as one of the 25 best NY Giants players he had ever managed. To my knowledge, Lindstrom never was in the top 10 in any offensive category in any of his seasons (although his career BA was over .300) and his main claim to fame was being the first player to get 4 hits in a World Series game (off of Walter Johnson, no less); but the say-so of one of the winningest managers of all time was basically enough to get him into the Hall. Hmmm...