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View Full Version : Charlotte wants to relocate to Charlotte


Fenway
01-10-2006, 09:50 AM
Knights majority owner Don Beaver has not run detailed financial projections yet, but he told reporters Monday that paying several hundred thousand dollars annually in property taxes would hurt the team's ability to pay for the stadium.
Beaver, whose team now struggles with low attendance in Fort Mill, S.C., believes increased ticket sales and other revenue from an uptown stadium could pay for the building.

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/13589037.htm

maurice
01-10-2006, 01:19 PM
Most of the folks who are unwilling to make the short and easy trip to Ft. Mill aren't particularly interested in a new park either, especially now that the Panthers (and their downtown stadium) are hot, since the Knights usually suck, and since the bulk of sports interest is dominated by college basketball and NASCAR.

ondafarm
01-11-2006, 10:33 AM
I think you have to add the Knight's Castle to their list of woes. I'm not really enamored of the park and all that concrete. Just me though?

samram
01-11-2006, 11:04 AM
Baseball just isn't a big seller here, especially bad minor league baseball. Furthermore, there won't be a lot of support for another stadium after the Bobcats Arena was built using taxpayer funds even after a no vote by the taxpayers. I think they would be better off moving the stadium to Union County, to the southeast of Charlotte, which has lower property taxes than Mecklenburg County, is going through a housing boom, and has a lot of young families.

soxfanatlanta
01-11-2006, 11:40 AM
Baseball just isn't a big seller here, especially bad minor league baseball. Furthermore, there won't be a lot of support for another stadium after the Bobcats Arena was built using taxpayer funds even after a no vote by the taxpayers. I think they would be better off moving the stadium to Union County, to the southeast of Charlotte, which has lower property taxes than Mecklenburg County, is going through a housing boom, and has a lot of young families.

I agree - building a stadium uptown would be unwise, IMO. The only way that would happen is if a MLB team were to relocate there. Now if they decided to build a ballpark in either Mathews (off of 485), or the UNCC area, that might put more behinds in the seats.

I had season tickets when I lived there, and the stadium was not too bad; the seats were dirt cheap, and the umps could hear me every time I yelled at them for a blown call. :smile:

ondafarm
01-11-2006, 11:59 AM
Baseball just isn't a big seller here, especially bad minor league baseball. Furthermore, there won't be a lot of support for another stadium after the Bobcats Arena was built using taxpayer funds even after a no vote by the taxpayers. I think they would be better off moving the stadium to Union County, to the southeast of Charlotte, which has lower property taxes than Mecklenburg County, is going through a housing boom, and has a lot of young families.

My former fiancee's family lives on the border of Union and Anson counties and when I visited them and asked about the Knights, they didn't even know the name or their affiliation. I'm not sure Union county would be the hotbed of fandom that you may be implying. I concur on the lots of young families and lots of new homes though.

samram
01-11-2006, 12:16 PM
My former fiancee's family lives on the border of Union and Anson counties and when I visited them and asked about the Knights, they didn't even know the name or their affiliation. I'm not sure Union county would be the hotbed of fandom that you may be implying. I concur on the lots of young families and lots of new homes though.

Well, I was thinking, as is soxfanatlanta, about an area like Matthews or Indian Trail, both of which are accessible from 485 and Independence Blvd. for those coming from Uptown Charlotte. As for people not knowing the Knights, there's a lot of people in Charlotte itself who don't know who the Knights are and most certainly have no clue with whom they are affiliated.

maurice
01-11-2006, 12:33 PM
I thought the stadium was fine. It lacks the retro design of new parks but has pretty much everything you'd expect from an I.L. stadium. It's right off the Interstate with plenty of parking, and the value is outstanding. Parking is $2, and the best seats in the house are $10. They also have very good promotions, and the kids love the mascot, Homer the Dragon.

Randar68
01-11-2006, 12:35 PM
Baseball just isn't a big seller here, especially bad minor league baseball. Furthermore, there won't be a lot of support for another stadium after the Bobcats Arena was built using taxpayer funds even after a no vote by the taxpayers. I think they would be better off moving the stadium to Union County, to the southeast of Charlotte, which has lower property taxes than Mecklenburg County, is going through a housing boom, and has a lot of young families.

Baseball is a huge draw throughout that area of the country.

1) The Knights' owner is a piece of work, came in and pissed everyone off.
2) Charlotte voted against a new stadium for the team last year, IMO, in large part due to the conflicts with the owner.
3) All you have to do is see parks like the one in Louisville to know what minor league baseball in a place like Charlotte can be.
4) The location for the Knights is just brutally bad. Awful.

samram
01-11-2006, 12:58 PM
Baseball is a huge draw throughout that area of the country.

1) The Knights' owner is a piece of work, came in and pissed everyone off.
2) Charlotte voted against a new stadium for the team last year, IMO, in large part due to the conflicts with the owner.
3) All you have to do is see parks like the one in Louisville to know what minor league baseball in a place like Charlotte can be.
4) The location for the Knights is just brutally bad. Awful.

I'm not sure if you mean that it's a huge draw everywhere around this part of the country except for here, or if you're including Charlotte as well. If you're including Charlotte, I would have to disagree with you. They're barely a blip on the radar, unfortunately. They do OK on weekends with the fireworks shows, but they really don't draw anything on weeknights.

I'm sure that conflicts with the Knights' owner played a role in the no vote, but, as I said before, even the Bobcats' Arena (which isn't drawing well either, despite being a fantastic arena) was voted against. I just can't imagine the taxpayers approving a new stadium.

You're absolutely right about the location. True, it's right off the interstate, but that interstate, I-77, really sucks from 4:30-7. Furthermore, if you live in South Charlotte (where most of the money is), unless you know the backroads very well, you have to take 485 north almost to the airport to get on I-77 to go back south and then over the state line. 485 is awful at that time of day in the Ballantyne area.

I would love for people here to be more interested in baseball, but this is still a southern town even with the large amount of northerners living here. Football, college basketball and NASCAR are far and away the biggest sports here. To make matters worse, people who are baseball fans here tend to be fans of the NY teams or the Red Sox.

Randar68
01-11-2006, 01:08 PM
I'm not sure if you mean that it's a huge draw everywhere around this part of the country except for here, or if you're including Charlotte as well. If you're including Charlotte, I would have to disagree with you. They're barely a blip on the radar, unfortunately. They do OK on weekends with the fireworks shows, but they really don't draw anything on weeknights.

Nobody goes to hockey games in Chicago anymore... why is that? Is Chicago a town that doesn't care about hockey?

Now they are. Who made it that way?

It's amazing what poor location, terrible PR, and pissing off your fan base will do to an area's "interest" in your product.

ondafarm
01-11-2006, 01:24 PM
I would love for people here to be more interested in baseball, but this is still a southern town even with the large amount of northerners living here. Football, college basketball and NASCAR are far and away the biggest sports here. To make matters worse, people who are baseball fans here tend to be fans of the NY teams or the Red Sox.

When I lived in Raleigh/Durham those sports were ranked slightly differently, College basketball, NASCAR, hockey, football and then baseball far down the list. When I mentioned baseball people immediately assumed I was a Yankee fan, I'd say Chicago and they'd say Cubs, I'd say Sox and they'd say Red Sox and then I'd say the Chicago Sox and they'd say who? Pretty pathetic if it wasn't for Voodoo's pizza place. Then again, just try to mention that you occasionaly root for Notre Dame there.

samram
01-11-2006, 02:09 PM
When I lived in Raleigh/Durham those sports were ranked slightly differently, College basketball, NASCAR, hockey, football and then baseball far down the list. When I mentioned baseball people immediately assumed I was a Yankee fan, I'd say Chicago and they'd say Cubs, I'd say Sox and they'd say Red Sox and then I'd say the Chicago Sox and they'd say who? Pretty pathetic if it wasn't for Voodoo's pizza place. Then again, just try to mention that you occasionaly root for Notre Dame there.

I didn't mean to put those in order, but they're all ahead of baseball. And I've done the ND thing- not good results.

ondafarm
01-11-2006, 03:13 PM
NASCAR? It's just bootleggers driving around a track. Whats's the big deal?

Evidently it is a big deal, tey have sports talk stations dedicated to it. I consider golf more of a sport.

rdivaldi
01-11-2006, 09:15 PM
NASCAR? It's just bootleggers driving around a track. Whats's the big deal?

I've always wondered what the big deal is to see a bunch of rednecks turning left...

:hijacked:

the gooch
01-12-2006, 01:56 PM
I've always wondered what the big deal is to see a bunch of rednecks turning left...

:hijacked:
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3805&stc=1&d=1137095770
its not that easy, you know.

ondafarm
01-12-2006, 03:06 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3805&stc=1&d=1137095770
its not that easy, you know.

Just follow your "L" hand. ((Applies to only the literate.))

Baby Fisk
01-13-2006, 12:54 AM
Could Charlotte (or the area) support an MLB team? Just wondering.

soxfanatlanta
01-13-2006, 07:01 AM
Could Charlotte (or the area) support an MLB team? Just wondering.

I lived there for 3+ years, and I cannot see how a MLB team would survive there. Like previous posters here have written: baseball is not very high on the list of sports to watch.

NC is NCAA baskekball, NASCAR, and more NCAA basketball, with NHL peppered into the mix (how long will that last?). SC is SEC football, and more NASCAR. Tractor pulls figure into the mix, too :smile:. Both states support the Panthers pretty well, but that's only 8 regular season games a year.

I'd love to see it happen, but I believe the risk is way too high.

PaulDrake
01-13-2006, 09:02 AM
Baseball is a huge draw throughout that area of the country.

I could not disagree with you more on this issue. Baseball isn't even on the radar of many "fans" in the Carolinas. In Columbia SC where I live the University of South Carolina just muscled out their Class A franchise with barely a peep from the locals. In South Carolina it's college football, in North Carolina college basketball. NASCAR is of course big in both states. I'm an hour and a half away from Charlotte and there's close to zero interest in the Panthers and their drive to the Super Bowl. In the Upstate (Anderson, Greenville, Spartanburg, Charlotte suburbs in SC) there seems to be some interest in the Panthers, but here if it ain't Gamecocks sports (mostly football) then for the most part nobody gives a hoot. For a rust belt Yankee this is definitely not sports heaven.

ondafarm
01-13-2006, 10:44 AM
When I lived in Raleigh-Durham (well, Cary, actually) I did see a modicum of interest in baseball. The Durham Bulls games were generally well attended and my drives out to Winston-Salem to see the Warthogs were hardly considered insane by most. In that area the NHL was more popular there than elsewhere in the Carolinas because a team was right there. The Panthers were fairly well-supported. During basketball season all sports were considered second to college basketball. I think a major league baseball team could survive in the Carolinas if they could find a way to draw from all three NC metro areas (Charlotte, Winston-Salem-Greensboro and Raleigh-Durham.) If it didn't conflict with basketball/ football seasons too much.

samram
01-13-2006, 12:07 PM
When I lived in Raleigh-Durham (well, Cary, actually) I did see a modicum of interest in baseball. The Durham Bulls games were generally well attended and my drives out to Winston-Salem to see the Warthogs were hardly considered insane by most. In that area the NHL was more popular there than elsewhere in the Carolinas because a team was right there. The Panthers were fairly well-supported. During basketball season all sports were considered second to college basketball. I think a major league baseball team could survive in the Carolinas if they could find a way to draw from all three NC metro areas (Charlotte, Winston-Salem-Greensboro and Raleigh-Durham.) If it didn't conflict with basketball/ football seasons too much.

What do they call Cary down here? It's like Contaminated Area for Relocated Yankees. Whatever.

The problem with your thought about drawing from all three metro areas is finding a spot the team could draw from on any given night. They're far enough apart that weeknights would be sparsely attended by those not in the area with the team.

ondafarm
01-13-2006, 12:47 PM
What do they call Cary down here? It's like Contaminated Area for Relocated Yankees. Whatever.

The problem with your thought about drawing from all three metro areas is finding a spot the team could draw from on any given night. They're far enough apart that weeknights would be sparsely attended by those not in the area with the team.

Actually, we used to joke that it was "Containment Area for Relocated Yankees" but it's the thought, if any, that counts.

Since all three areas are really only about an hour apart by car (RD-Charl, a tad longer) and that's not exactly a difficult drive, I'd think that even weeknight crowds could be of decent size. I'm thinking Sanford or Asheboro (have to redo the roads though.)

soxfanatlanta
01-13-2006, 01:44 PM
Since all three areas are really only about an hour apart by car (RD-Charl, a tad longer) and that's not exactly a difficult drive, I'd think that even weeknight crowds could be of decent size. I'm thinking Sanford or Asheboro (have to redo the roads though.)

Correct me if I'm time challenged, but it takes almost 3 hours to get from Charlotte, to Raleigh, no? Mapquest estimates 171 miles of driving, and that's assuming a downtown ballpark in either location. Not too many people are going to do that drive; it would be like seeing people from Peoria at Flubs games.

maurice
01-13-2006, 02:44 PM
There's obviously some interest in minor-league baseball in the Carolinas. Off the top of my head, those two states contain:
- most of the teams in the Carolina League (A),
- about half of the teams in the South Atlantic League (A),
- a team in the Southern League (AA), and
- two teams in the International League (AAA).
OTOH, like I said before, baseball doesn't come close to college basketball and NASCAR.

ondafarm
01-13-2006, 04:00 PM
Correct me if I'm time challenged, but it takes almost 3 hours to get from Charlotte, to Raleigh, no? Mapquest estimates 171 miles of driving, and that's assuming a downtown ballpark in either location. Not too many people are going to do that drive; it would be like seeing people from Peoria at Flubs games.

Only if you take the interstate highways. There is a direct route, typically thru Sanford. Picture the three metro areas like a triangle, almost a right triangle. The 171 miles is only valid if you use the two legs of the triangle. The hypotenuse is much shorter.

And, if you actually read my post, you'd realize I suggested a location in between all three cities.

Downtown Raleigh is at the furthest eastern portion of the Raleigh-Durham metro area. The direct route to Marshville (Union County) from Cary was just over 80 miles.

samram
01-13-2006, 04:22 PM
Only if you take the interstate highways. There is a direct route, typically thru Sanford. Picture the three metro areas like a triangle, almost a right triangle. The 171 miles is only valid if you use the two legs of the triangle. The hypotenuse is much shorter.

And, if you actually read my post, you'd realize I suggested a location in between all three cities.

Downtown Raleigh is at the furthest eastern portion of the Raleigh-Durham metro area. The direct route to Marshville (Union County) from Cary was just over 80 miles.

Right, but, as you said, that would require major road renovations. I know there's a direct route from Charlotte to RD (is it 64?), but even so, it would be about 120 miles. I know you said that Asheboro or Sanford would be a middle ground for all three areas, but I just don't see how a stadium in a small town which hopes to draw from three relatively distant areas would be a successful venture.

As for Cary, you've got it right. I heard someone refer to Cary as that the other day, but it was someone talking very quickly with a southern accent, and I couldn't completely understand them.

ondafarm
01-13-2006, 04:28 PM
. . . it was someone talking very quickly with a southern accent, and I couldn't completely understand them.

That sir, is redundant.

DSpivack
01-13-2006, 06:47 PM
That sir, is redundant.

Redundant? I thought it would be unusual--'tis is a slow drawl.

Randar68
01-16-2006, 09:27 AM
There's obviously some interest in minor-league baseball in the Carolinas. Off the top of my head, those two states contain:
- most of the teams in the Carolina League (A),
- about half of the teams in the South Atlantic League (A),
- a team in the Southern League (AA), and
- two teams in the International League (AAA).
OTOH, like I said before, baseball doesn't come close to college basketball and NASCAR.

Yep, and many of the games I've been to (let's remind people that baseball is played in the summer, not during college basketball season) have been well attended over the years.

Winston-Salem is a well-attended stadium/org, right in the heart of the Wake Forest Athletics campus.

There is plenty for the locals to do in Charlotte, but a new owner and a stadium centrally located in Charlotte with easy transportation access would boost attendence mightily, IMO.

TheVulture
01-16-2006, 01:25 PM
The Sox should move their AAA team and an A team to northern indiana to increase the regional fan base. Put the teams in Hammond, Merrilville, South Bend or Ft. Wayne. I don't see what good it does for the Sox to have all these teams in the southeast.

Randar68
01-16-2006, 02:54 PM
The Sox should move their AAA team and an A team to northern indiana to increase the regional fan base. Put the teams in Hammond, Merrilville, South Bend or Ft. Wayne. I don't see what good it does for the Sox to have all these teams in the southeast.

Eases travel between locations, easier for scouts, player developments, etc. You wanna call someone up from Kanny to W-S? just a short drive.

You wanna move someone from Bristol in the Rookie League to Kanny? Short drive...

Everything is more localized. Don't ask me why they have a team playing in Montana... but everything else is centralized in the Southeast. Tons easier and more efficient from a logistics perspective.

MisterB
01-16-2006, 03:01 PM
The Sox should move their AAA team and an A team to northern indiana to increase the regional fan base. Put the teams in Hammond, Merrilville, South Bend or Ft. Wayne. I don't see what good it does for the Sox to have all these teams in the southeast.

1. The Sox cannot relocate minor league franchises. They can switch which minor league teams they are affiliated with, but physically relocating a team is up to the respective minor leagues.

2. The Sox had an A ball team in South Bend for many years, and if it made a difference in the fan base, it wasn't by a significant amount.

3. Logistics. Charlotte and Winston-Salem are within 100 miles of one another and Kannapolis is directly in between. Bristol is within 150 miles of those three, and Birmingham brings 5 of the 6 Sox farm teams within 500 miles of one another. Saves a lot of money and time when it comes to travel for minor league players and roving instructors.

PS- Randar beat me to it.

ondafarm
01-17-2006, 10:43 AM
Eases travel between locations, easier for scouts, player developments, etc. You wanna call someone up from Kanny to W-S? just a short drive.

You wanna move someone from Bristol in the Rookie League to Kanny? Short drive...

Everything is more localized. Don't ask me why they have a team playing in Montana... but everything else is centralized in the Southeast. Tons easier and more efficient from a logistics perspective.

Trust me, there is a huge advantage in keeping all of your minor teams localized. Although I never had to move, several teammates did and for them to have to haul stuff across country would have been hard. Keeping the transfers within a few miles (an easy drive) is much smarter. It also means you get to see old coaches and get refresher courses when they are also in town.

maurice
01-17-2006, 04:10 PM
The Sox should move their AAA team and an A team to northern indiana to increase the regional fan base. Put the teams in Hammond, Merrilville, South Bend or Ft. Wayne.

In addition to what's already been posted, N. Indiana doesn't have a market big enough to support a AAA team. The only AAA team in that state is in Indianapolis; it's affiliated with Pittsburgh and not available to the Sox. S. Bend and Ft. Wayne have A-ball teams, and Gary has a team that is not MLB-affiliated.

ondafarm
01-17-2006, 04:47 PM
At this point I would like to suggest that Sox management should set up a lower than rookie-league league. Semi-pro ball but with the Sox providing coaching help and training facility support. I know a lot of guys who graduated college and found they had more free time than before, so they got friends together and played some ball. If those guys actually had a league to play in and a bit of coaching, I'm sure a few players would have come out of it and been valuable to eventually get into the upper minors and even a few eventually contribute to the majors. And how much would it cost to keep retain a few ex-ballplayers as coaches? If one guy a year was signed to a minor league contract that would mean you'd get a major league player every four or five years. Guys who didn't blossom young but took a little time to develop their eye and mature. Getting one extra guy out of your farm system every five years is the difference between the Indians and the Brewers.